Who Created the USA and .... WHY?

Jerry Russell

Administrator
Staff member
Hitler's DNA has been discovered to be of the ancient E-M35 Y-Haplogroup, one subclade of which later became the Berbers.
Leonard Sax published an article in the Journal of European Studies, "Aus den Gemeinden von Burgenland: Revisiting the question of Adolf Hitler’s paternal grandfather", providing a very interesting perspective on the issue of Hitler's DNA. Sax explains:

In 2010, Dutch journalists claimed to have obtained DNA from Adolf Hitler’s living relatives (Mulders and Vermeeren, 2010). The most dominant haplogroup among the relatives was reportedly E1b1b, which is common among Ashkenazi Jews but rare among Gentile Europeans. These findings were never reported in a peer-reviewed scholarly journal, only in the Dutch magazine Knack and other popular magazines, so the findings must be treated with caution (Cohen, 2010). The methods were hardly conventional. For example, the authors claimed that they spent seven days trailing Alexander Adolf Stuart-Houston, the eldest son of William Patrick Hitler. When Alexander Adolf dropped a napkin, the napkin was retrieved and used as a source of DNA in the study, according to an article in the Daily Mail (Hall, 2010). Such methods – obtaining material without the consent of the donor – would generally disqualify the study from publication in a reputable journal.

In addition to being ethically questionable, the DNA from this napkin could easily have been contaminated. So, Sax is correct to treat the results of the Mulders & Vermeeren study with some skepticism. Nevertheless, until there's a better study, it's the best information available.

Hitler's mother, Maria Anna Schicklgruber, was unmarried at the time Hitler's father Alois was conceived and born. So the identity of Hitler's paternal grandfather has been a matter of intense speculation. According to Sax, the "scholarly consensus" is that Maria's lover was either Johann Georg Hiedler, or his brother Johann Nopomuk Hiedler. Sax sets about to undermine that consensus, and argues that an account by Hans Frank is probably correct. Frank claimed that Hitler's grandfather was a Jewish teenager of the Frankenberger family, who supported Maria and Alois to avoid a public scandal.

Sax further offers the hypothesis that this scenario led to the development of young Adolf Hitler's anti-Semitic leanings, and thus changed the course of history. And, this suggests the significance of the DNA results: not by direct influence of DNA on Hitler's ideology, but as a result of family dynamics.

If correct, the finding that Alexander Adolf Stuart-Houston had an E1b1b Y-chromosome would be consistent with the idea that Hitler's grandfather was the Jewish teenager named Frankenberger.

Here is Sax's concluding section from the JES article:

As in any of the sciences, 100 per cent certainty is often not possible. Instead, one makes a hypothesis and checks to see how well the hypothesis fits the facts. The hypothesis that Hitler’s grandfather was a Jewish teenager may fit the available facts better than the hypothesis that Johann Georg Hiedler or Johann Nepomuk Hiedler was the grandfather. Consider the following questions:

  • Why did Hitler order the destruction of his grandmother’s home town, Döllersheim?
    • Why was Hitler so anxious to prevent any public investigation into his ancestry?
    • Why did Hans Frank enjoy near-immunity from serious punishment, despite calling for an end to the Nazi police state?
    • How to explain Hans Frank’s claim that Hitler’s paternal grandfather was Jewish?
The hypothesis that Hitler’s paternal grandfather was Jewish yields answers to these questions. The hypothesis that Hitler’s paternal grandfather was Johann Georg Hiedler, or Johann Nepomuk Hiedler, yields less convincing answers.
There is evidence that Hitler was anti-Semitic as a child, although anti-Semitism was not common in his community at that time.17 Yet in Mein Kampf, Hitler claimed that he never had any anti-Semitic feelings until he encountered Polish Orthodox Jews as a 20-year-old in Vienna. He never acknowledged that he had been anti-Semitic as a child, for if he had done so people might ask why. Why would a child who had no personal contact with Jews hate them with such a passion? If Hans Frank’s account is correct, then the extramarital liaison between the teenage Frankenberger boy and the 41-year-old Maria Anna Schicklgruber, which may not have been consensual, was the proximate cause of Maria Anna returning home to Döllersheim pregnant, and rejected by her own family. An inquiry into the reasons for Adolf Hitler’s anti-Semitic feelings at such a young age might have lent further credence to the rumours about his Jewish paternal grandfather.
The most common objection to the hypothesis that Hitler’s grandfather was a Jewish teenager rests on the fact that Jews were officially prohibited from residing in Styria from 1496 until 1856. As we have seen, that prohibition on legal residence did not mean that no Jews were present in Styria, while having their legal residence elsewhere. The hypothesis that Hitler’s paternal grandfather was Jewish, as claimed by Hans Frank, may fit the facts better than the alternative hypothesis that Hitler’s paternal grandfather was Johann Georg Hiedler or Johann Nepomuk Hiedler.
While all of this is very plausible: as skeptics, I feel we can't rule out the possibility of a Rothschild connection, either. If the Rothschilds indeed were involved, we would expect Stuart-Houston's Y chromosome to be J1, not E1b1b. But it's possible that the Mulders & Vermeeren study is a misdirection (either intentional or unintentional) and also that Hans Frank's final service to Hitler was to promulgate a fake story about the Frankenberger family, in order to cover up the far more incriminating possibility that Hitler was a Rothschild.

Sax calls for a more credible DNA study to resolve the matter, which can only be a subject of continual speculation in the meanwhile.
 
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Seeker

Active Member
He seems to comment on all manner of peoples and such, and so far I can't detect any racial slant. I think some people get triggered about such as swastikas which were a global phenomenon from way back.
Sepehr also seems to believe that the story of Noah and his three sons landing in the Ark at Mt. Ararat in Turkey has a kernel of truth in it. He uses this to infer that Shem, Ham, and Japheth were Caucasian/Aryans who led migrations to Asia, Northern Africa, and Europe.
 

Seeker

Active Member
If the Rothschilds indeed were involved, we would expect Stuart-Houston's Y chromosome to be J1, not E1b1b. But it's possible that the Mulders & Vermeeren study is a misdirection (either intentional or unintentional) and also that Hans Frank's final service to Hitler was to promulgate a fake story about the Frankenberger family, in order to cover up the far more incriminating possibility that Hitler was a Rothschild.
The "Hitler" branch of Rothschilds? :
https://e1b1b1-m35.blogspot.com/2012/05/henry-rothschild-bc-1820-hesse-kassel.html
 

Seeker

Active Member
Perhaps I should explain that I'm not laughing at you...
No offense taken, it was not my hypothesis, anyway.
some minor non-European gene variant was found in Hitler Y chromosome - and was thought by Peter Levenda or anyone else to be important.
That is entirely my fault, due to my bad habit of stringing unrelated sentences together when in a hurry, as Levenda did not discuss Hitler's DNA type in his book. Jerry's comment on my post did a much better job of explaining the circumstances of obtaining evidence of Hitler's supposed haplogroup, and the possible ramifications arising from it.
But even this doesn't compare with Hitler converting to Islam in Indonesia.
I admit that I felt the same way as you did, before starting to read Levenda's "Ratline". However, Levenda does not seem to be your typical conspiracy crank, he really tries to gather evidence, and make a person think about alternatives, IMHO. Exactly though, who would imagine that Hitler, of all people, would convert to Islam in Indonesia, he would be happy to hear you say that.
Wasn't Argentina enough?
Argentina WASN'T enough, according to Levenda, because this is Hitler we are talking about, not one of his lieutenants, and he had to go literally to the other side of the world to exist under a false identity (I have read worse, at least it wasn't Antarctica, the Inner Earth, the Moon, Aldebaran, etc.). Also, remember what eventually happened to Eichmann after he "escaped" to Argentina?
 
Unlike Argentina in 1945, Indonesia was still a Dutch colony, the Americans allowing the Japanese troops to keep order in the country...
Argentina WASN'T enough, according to Levenda, because this is Hitler we are talking about, not one of his lieutenants, and he had to go literally to the other side of the world to exist under a false identity (I have read worse, at least it wasn't Antarctica, the Inner Earth, the Moon, Aldebaran, etc.). Also, remember what eventually happened to Eichmann after he "escaped" to Argentina?
...because Indonesians would no longer follow the White Man's orders after the Dutch were thrown out by Japan in early 1942 - and after the Dutch returned. But good point about Eichmann!

So where in Indonesia could he have lived given the anti-White sentiment in nearly all that became that present-day nation? There was one exception to this rule, where the Dutch weren't particularly discredited - and that was West New Guinea, a Dutch colony, poorly-explored and separate to but contiguous to Indonesia, and with a minority Islamic population. Only after Indonesia got its independence did the USA in 1961 - against the wishes of Holland and Australia - decide to hand over West New Guinea to Indonesia! That Hitler could have spent his last years in Jayapura (Hollandia) or Fak Fak is more than preposterous - or is he supposed to have joined Japanese diehard rebels in Borneo or the Philippines?:D

Yours faithfully
Claude
 

Jerry Russell

Administrator
Staff member
The "Hitler" branch of Rothschilds? :
This 'Henry Rothschild' (1820-1902) seems to be very mysterious. Ancestry.com says he's the son of David Rothschild and Marianne Goldschmidt. Neither of these shows up in the standard genealogy of the famous Rothschild banking family. Any clue where he came from?
 

Seeker

Active Member
This 'Henry Rothschild' (1820-1902) seems to be very mysterious. Ancestry.com says he's the son of David Rothschild and Marianne Goldschmidt. Neither of these shows up in the standard genealogy of the famous Rothschild banking family. Any clue where he came from?
Henry, in turn, married a Lena Goldschmidt. The prominent Goldschmidts and Rothschilds intermarried and were business associates. Right now, I would think that these Rothschilds and Goldschmidts were from cadet branches of the famous Rothschild and Goldschmidt families in Germany, and perhaps ancestry and DNA were being deliberately obscured, to be replaced with a perhaps nonexistent Leopold Frankenberger as the grandfather of Hitler, as you suggested.
 

Seeker

Active Member
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Jerry Russell

Administrator
Staff member
If the following FamilyTreeDNA Chart is the evidence for that assertion, I see no famous "J" Haplogroup Rothschilds in that listing, and one might question if in fact the "real" Rothschilds would want their DNA publicly known anyway.
All the sources I could find for the assertion that the Rothschilds are Haplogroup J, do indeed link back to this FamilyTreeDNA Chart. And in the chart, the "J" Rothschilds are represented by SNP test results from Lob Yehuda ben Kalonymus Rothschild, d1781, as well as "predicted" estimates for Adolph A. Rothschild b. 1829. But, it also lists several other haplogroups for other Rothschilds, as well as seemingly random other information about mysterious individuals including "Aaron, Brother of Moses". The source for all these data entries in the table are not further disclosed, and I feel quite skeptical about any process involving exhumation at any of the traditional locations of Aaron's tomb.

The Wikipedia article on Amschel Moses Rothschild (Mayer Amschel Rothschild's father) states that the family name was coined around 1567 by Isaak Elchanan Bacharach (d. 1585). So it seems reasonable to expect that all known Rothschilds should be descended on the male line from this person. If this is the case, then what is the explanation for the different haplogroups listed for various Rothschilds in the Family Tree DNA database? All Rothschilds should have the same Y-chromosome, unless paternity fraud has taken place in this illustrious family at some point.

The bottom line is that the sources of information about Hitler's DNA are dubious at best, and the same thing is true about the Rothschild DNA.
 

Seeker

Active Member
The bottom line is that the sources of information about Hitler's DNA are dubious at best, and the same thing is true about the Rothschild DNA.
True in both cases. Just from memory, the only thing that I can add to this right now is that I believe the prominent Rothschilds obtained their surname from living in a house known as the "Red Shield" (Rothschild). It was a custom at that time for Jews to take a surname from where they lived. If this is true, there may have been other families in Germany living in houses with that designation, who also took "Rothschild" as a surname, thus explaining the different haplogroups among them.
 
When I suggested West Papua as to Hitler's alleged Indonesian hideout, Seeker referred me back to the source, Levenda.
Sumbawa, according to Levenda.
So help me! Sumbawa!!!!! There are few things Postflavians need to know about Sumbawa!

The Year without a Summer (1816 I think?) was exactly 100 years before Hitler's baptism by fire in WW1 - the year without a summer being due to the eruption of Tambora Volcano - situated in Sumbawa of course! I see too that Lavenda had him in the eastern part of the island (Bima) first, then, somehow losing his mojo and moving to Sumbawa Besar in the west near the northern coast, across Salek Bay from Mt. Tambora with Mojo Island lying in between (you can't make this stuff up)!:D

Sumbawa was never connected to Asia. Bali was, but from there the islands extend eastwards - to Lombok, then Sumbawa then to Flores - yes, Flores, home of the 100,000 yr. old plus hobbit-people, a distinctive race (geographic variant) of humans if ever there was one. Naturally they would have lived on the islands nearer Bali too, but archaeology only rarely digs up such evidence.

Now Flores is separated from eastern Sumbawa by two more islands, which perhaps explain why Hitler left eastern Sumbawa too. These islands are Rintja on the Flores side and Komodo in the middle - and we all know what comes from Komodo Island, but also lives in Rintja and in eastern Sumbawa! Yes, the Komodo dragon - so perhaps AH adopted Islam in order to stop being turned into dragon-food. Sumbawa indeed! I'm shocked!

Yours faithfully
Claude
 

Richard Stanley

Well-Known Member
Once the war was over, Hitler, the puppet, only had living utility to the ongoing Nazi enterprise as a symbolic figurehead who must be kept highly secure and whose existence be kept secret from the world, but not secret to the 'faithful' [sic].

Once the Bariloche environs became vulnerable he was easily transported over the Andes to the infamous Colony in Chile, but this location would be prone to the same danger, especially given the heavy overt Nazi presence there. The same would be true for any of the other South American strongholds. As such, a remote island in Indonesia would be perfect as the 'final solution'. It would also be perfect for such as Bormann and other functional leaders of the Nazi global enterprise, as they could keep the idiot Hitler from causing any damage such as internal dissension. And that Hitler could be in near proximity to the main Nazi gold cache(s) would likely help mollify him.

Levenda claims that Hitler adopted the identity of a Nazi doctor (and wife) that ran a medical clinic on the island, and that upon his death a quiet pilgrimage is made to his unmarked grave by people of Germanic descent. To me, it all has the signs of verisimilitude and plausibility. For today there are yet German peoples, and others, who still hold him as their messiah, as some yet do for Jeez-ass and Drumpf.

If Hitler made a conversion to Islam, it was likely just for show, to help keep the savages happy and quiet with his presence.

MAGA - Muslim And German Ächtung
 

Seeker

Active Member
Tis a pity that Tupper Saussy was deceased by the time "Ratline" was written, with the Roman Catholic/American implications involved in it, in a way it seems like a post World War II sequel to "Rulers of Evil".
 

Seeker

Active Member
This video argues that America is an deep Islamic plot, led by the Islamic royal leaders of the Anglican Church, the British Crown, descended from the red-headed Muhammed. Hence the Muslim motif of the Masonic Shriners.
We also have American Presidents Harding, FDR, Truman, and Ford as Shriners.
 

Seeker

Active Member
For Independence Day, may I mention the Roman Catholic Founding Father Charles Carroll of Carrollton, of Royal Irish heritage, the wealthiest and most well educated (17 year Jesuit education in France) of the Signers of the Declaration of Independence, known contemporaneously as the "First Citizen" of the American Colonies, whose family is featured prominently in Tupper Saussy's "Rulers of Evil":

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Carroll_of_Carrollton#Early_life
 

Richard Stanley

Well-Known Member
Yes, you may.

It would be very cool if you would seek to find a possible genealogical connection to James Carroll, author of Constantine's Sword and former Catholic priest and Charles Carroll. James' father was an early USAF general working on the Marshall Plan. As James stated in the book, father and son both witnessed the display of the Ephod of Jesus in the Trier Cathedral in 1959 ... along with now Papal Chamberlain Franz von Papen. FvP had previously attended the rare display in place of Christ Hitler in 1933, a celebration of Hitler's apocalyptic Ascension to power.
 

Seeker

Active Member
a possible genealogical connection to James Carroll, author of Constantine's Sword and former Catholic priest and Charles Carroll.
To make a long story short, no, the poor Irish (this is how James described his family himself) immigrant ancestor of James Carroll was his great-great-grandfather, another James Carroll (wife Alice Burke), born 1822 in Kells, County Meath, site of Kells Abbey, from which the Book of Kells takes its name. He is listed as a blacksmith in the 1855 New York City census, and having lived there for three years. My guess would be that he was a Great Famine Irish immigrant. However, his County Meath is on the NE border of County Offaly, where the 17th century ancestors of Charles Carroll came from, and they just may share ancient royal Irish ancestry.
 
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Seeker

Active Member
Founding Father Charles Carroll of Carrollton, of Royal Irish heritage
His contemporary Founding Father George Washington is also believed (but not proven yet, I think) to be of male line Royal Irish heritage, from the fifth century Irish King Niall of the Nine Hostages, but of course we think of President Washington as "English", and not another inheritor of the red haired Egyptian/Scythian elite lineage that the late Nicholas de Vere postulated. Speaking of which, it has been years since I read it, and my memory may be faulty, but the late Robert Anton Wilson in his "The Historical Illuminatus Chronicles" (The Widow's Son)? described George Washington as a giant, red haired, descendant of Irish Royalty, wonder where he got that idea from?
 
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Seeker

Active Member
Wasn't quite sure where to put this, but is does connect to George Washington and the founding of the USA. The stepson of George Washington, John Parke Custis (who purchased what became the Lee family Arlington Plantation and later Arlington National Cemetery, and perished from "camp fever" at Yorktown in 1781), married Eleanor Calvert, who was descended from the Roman Catholic Calvert Proprietary Governors of Maryland and Newfoundland, King James I, who chartered what eventually became the Virginia and Plymouth Companies, and King Ferdinand and Queen Isabella of Spain, who of course sponsored Christopher Columbus to "discover" America in 1492. The granddaughter of John Parke and Eleanor (Calvert) Custis, Mary Anna Randolph Custis (her mother a cousin to Thomas Jefferson), was the wife of Confederate General Robert E. Lee. In turn, the great-great-great-nephew of Robert E. and Mary Anna Randolph (Custis) Lee, the Reverend, author, activist and commentator Robert Lee IV, in a recent ABC News interview, says that taking down Confederate statues is a "no brainer":

https://abcnews.go.com/US/robert-lees-descendant-taking-confederate-symbols-brainer/story?id=71545891
 
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