Who Created the USA and .... WHY?

Richard Stanley

Well-Known Member
Since he changes his "mind" all the time, sometimes in the same sentence, perhaps that makes him an "uncertain trumpet"?
https://www.foreignaffairs.com/reviews/capsule-review/1960-04-01/uncertain-trumpet
For if the trumpet give an uncertain sound, who shall prepare himself to the battle? 1 COR 14:8 KJV​

Hmmm, maybe Trump is a man of peace after all, that is if he is really uncertain. Now I'm uncertain about how to decide this. Maybe he's 'certain' about changing his mind. In other words, this is all part of his (and Hillary's) plan, which would make him 'certain'. Now Hillary (via Bill's plane trip with Loretta) is in hot water again, as soon as the Republicans let her off the Benghazi hook.

From doing a search, it seems that the "uncertain trumpet" is quite a popular theme.
 

Seeker

Active Member
So, after an amazing modern day odyssey as a fugitive, prisoner, and Jesuit "whistleblower", Mr. Saussy remains a "primitive" Christian to the end, trusting in the Bible, "Jesus", and "St. Paul", and believes he has found the answer that way, when so many of us are still searching. Why? I wish that I had not read "Rulers of Evil" so many years after he passed away, I would have loved to have corresponded with him. Was he truly at peace with himself and the world in spite of what he had discovered? For me, the most fascinating chapter is the last one, Chapter 25, "The Two Ministries", and I keep reading it over and over trying to pierce through his own personal philosophy and get it into my own head, and his final words haunt me, his paraphrase of St. Francis Xavier, in which he declares that he would not believe even the BIBLE were Truth to forbid it, but is that not exactly what he found, what am I missing in this so obvious paradox, for on that same page he did request to see any countervailing evidence. A fascinating life!
 

Richard Stanley

Well-Known Member
Well, there is the: "I believe because it is absurd" approach, and then there is the idea, expressed on the forum recently, that there is a pure stream flowing from the real Christ (whoever that is to them), through various historical groups, such as the Bogomils and onto the Cathars. Many evangelical groups today maintain such a heritage. And/or that the Roman Church is the result of a Falling Away from the true faith, if they were ever a part of it.
 

Seeker

Active Member
This is from memory, but I read "Holy Blood, Holy Grail" many years ago, and I believe the authors were associating the Bogomils and the Cathars with the "bloodline" of Jesus, as adherents to his true, anti-Catholic message. In "Rulers of Evil", I also believe that Mr. Saussy found out that his own roots were French Huguenot (Calvinist). This may beg the question, however, that was the original "true Jesus" exiled to England, and did Chester eventually become his cult center, with "Jesus" identified with King Arthur and the Joseph of Arimathea bloodline established there, while in Rome the Caesars (with a little help from their friends) established the "official Jesus" Imperial cult, with an Uber-elite bloodline, thus creating a Christian dialectic between Rome and England that 1500 years later resulted in the splitting of the "Church of England" from Rome and all of the splintering in turn from that, the Baptists, Puritans, Quakers, etc., that in turn colonized America? The Quaker colonizer William Penn was actually accused and arrested for being a "Jesuit" in disguise, supposedly secretly ordained in Rome and working for the English Catholic King James II. Apparently what goes around, comes around! As a side note, I believe that Eric Jon Phelps despised Tupper Saussy for accommodating himself to the "Rulers of Evil", instead of fighting them to his last breath, with the "take no prisoners" approach of Phelps himself. Once again, Divide and Conquer? I just cannot help feeling, though, from reading his book, that Tupper Saussy eventually really found ''something" that sustained him through all of his trials in this world, literally to the end.
 

Richard Stanley

Well-Known Member
I think that perhaps Saussy was forced to come to an intellectual accommodation that our world is deceptively formed by such as a Caesarian Christ and its acolytes, of which the Jesu may indeed be its primary priesthood, known variously by other names prior. Thus, when scrutinized most closely, and accurately, the Jesu and related 'fronts' operate more in a Dualistic mode that exoteric Christianity must deny. The people that operate within this convince themselves that they must occasionally do evil for the greater good. Of course, they are kidding themselves in most respects, but they can point to certain realities of the modern world and think well of themselves, that their deceptions helped all this unfold.

That said, from what I can tell, the Cathars, at least, seem to have had a rather decent and dignified society, including its nobility. That of course, made Catholic Culture look like the perversion that it was, and is.
 

Seeker

Active Member
I see, and he may have been forced to "see the light" after his wanderings and sufferings as a fugitive from the law for not paying his taxes, as on page 284 of his book he quotes "PAUL"(Josephus?) from his Epistle to the ROMANS, that we all need to (1) submit to the governing authorities, and (2) pay our taxes. Tupper Saussy affirms just before this, on page 283, that this is "perhaps the most eloquent statement on the New World Order ever written", what supreme irony that he personally learned this the hard way! Concerning the Cathars, according to the Wikipedia article on them, some communities of them, quoting from "The History of the Albigensian Crusade" by W. A. Sibly, believed that the true "Jesus" would have influenced the physical world by inhabiting the body of, again, "PAUL" (Josephus?)! I wonder if any of them ever eventually realized how right they may have been?
 

Richard Stanley

Well-Known Member
I should have added that in contrast to Saussy, that such as Phelps cannot (or will not) bring themselves to understand this inherent duality built into their history and present reality, so thus, no matter their presumably good intentions this failure will necessarily skew the results of their efforts, allowing them to be co-opted by ... guess who? Wolves in sheeps' clothing, like the Dominionist movement redirecting the Evangelical Movement, here turning loving sheep into radicalized, militant wolves. Deja vu?
 

Seeker

Active Member
"for the children of this world are in their generation wiser than the children of light", Luke 16:8, King James Version.
 

Seeker

Active Member
yourownjesus.net This is the web address for "The Catholicist Nation", which appears to carry on the religious teachings expounded by Tupper Saussy at the end of "Rulers of Evil".
 

Jerry Russell

Administrator
Staff member
yourownjesus.net
The site's webmaster is David Beck. His Tupper Saussy page is here: Tupper Saussy Links Page giving many useful links to Saussy-related resources.

The website name and "Catholicist Nation" caption seem intended to be ironic. Beck says he is a former Catholicist, and that he formerly believed in the same "Strawman Jesus" that other Catholicists believe in. But now, he's rejected all that, and considers that he's found the one true Jesus.

https://yourownjesus.net/about.htm

The only guide I have is Scripture. [....] My only aim is to honor Him in this effort out of my love for Him because of His gracious love for me, and out of love for those who chance to come across it and find greater clarity and brighter illumination of the Living Word.
 

Seeker

Active Member
Well then, with no sarcasm intended, and all due respect for the beliefs of Mr. Beck and the late Mr. Saussy, I must be a Catholicist then.
 

Richard Stanley

Well-Known Member
Jerry and I were just on the phone, talking about several things, and we both are not sure how to interpret your take on being a Catholicist, based upon Jerry's comments on Beck? Are you saying that you are a Cultural Christian (Catholic), or what?

For here Beck says:

The only guide I have is Scripture. As much as I speak of its brutal treatment at the hands of clever Catholicists, as a Catholicist once myself I can be prone to brief bouts of Scripture misconception. If you think you see one at any point in this site, please email me. I am open to correction and would be happy to know about it. My only aim is to honor Him in this effort out of my love for Him because of His gracious love for me, and out of love for those who chance to come across it and find greater clarity and brighter illumination of the Living Word. https://yourownjesus.net/about.htm

All, this no doubt is part of the confusing paradox that Saussy appeared to create. Where Saussy came to realize that the Jesuits, consistent with the Whore of Babylon Church, is 'merely' trying to variously manage 'Evil' (inherently in the ontological construct of Christianity and its predecessors) for achieving the Greater Good (The 'New' and/or Final Global Order).
 

Seeker

Active Member
I understand, it does confuse me also, as I have been trying to figure out the real position of Tupper Saussy for some time now. Was he sincere in his religious beliefs, after all that he had discovered, or did he become an unwilling (or unwitting) tool of the "Establishment", because of his previous persecution, fugitive status, and imprisonment? That is part of the reason why, in an earlier post, I mentioned that I would have loved to have corresponded with him. As for myself, I believe that I fit under your designation of "Cultural Christian (Catholic)", as I have, at one time or another in my life, attended a Protestant church, voted, signed contracts, paid taxes (definitely!), celebrated Christmas and Easter, etc.
 
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Seeker

Active Member
I do appreciate the great help that both of you have given me, to aid in my understanding of the conundrum of Tupper Saussy, whom I sincerely regard as a loving, creative ( I liked his hit record "Morning Girl", seriously), intelligent, fascinating individual to study and learn from. If he truly found Peace from his conclusions at the end of "Rulers of Evil", then may he Rest in Peace
 

Richard Stanley

Well-Known Member
I do appreciate the great help that both of you have given me, to aid in my understanding of the conundrum of Tupper Saussy, whom I sincerely regard as a loving, creative ( I liked his hit record "Morning Girl", seriously), intelligent, fascinating individual to study and learn from. If he truly found Peace from his conclusions at the end of "Rulers of Evil", then may he Rest in Peace
But can the living ever find such Peace? Or is 'Peace' different from 'peace'? o_O

I wonder what Beck would say if he knew the Imperial Romans and Josephus created his Christ?
 

Seeker

Active Member
To try to answer your first question in a nutshell, what I gather is that Tupper Saussy believed that, as long as he submitted to the governing authorities and paid his taxes (at least the ones that he thought he should pay), per "St. Paul" to the "Romans" in "Rulers of Evil", pages 283-284, he had nothing to fear from the New World Order, even if he published exposes about them (now isn't that a good example for us sinners?). For your second question, what makes you so sure that Beck doesn't know, if he was the close friend of Tupper?
 

Seeker

Active Member
The New Imperial Roman Empire June 22, 2017
https://www.veteranstoday.co Search for the above on the website to the left, and see why Tupper was not harmed for his "whistleblowing", the explanation starts just below the video of Congressman Chaffetz on that page.
 

Richard Stanley

Well-Known Member
https://www.veteranstoday.com/2017/06/22/the-new-imperial-roman-empire/

For your second question, what makes you so sure that Beck doesn't know, if he was the close friend of Tupper?
Well, I guess in what sense are we talking about Jesus (Christ of Nazareth) being a creation of Rome. Saussy and Beck believe in the Gospel version, so I can see that Saussy could accept Jesus of Nazareth as a part of the spiritual reality of the Roman/pagan system that he came to understand and accept. Instead, we are talking here about a cynical fictive creation, which I'm guessing that Beck will reject.
 
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Seeker

Active Member
Oh, I think that I see what you mean now. As far as I know, Saussy never discussed Josephus and his role in "creating" Jesus for Imperial Rome in "Rulers of Evil", so perhaps he sincerely did believe in the "real" Jesus, and thus passed that conviction on to Beck. Good point!
 
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