Transgender Reality

Discussion in 'Culture' started by Jerry Russell, Apr 3, 2017.

  1. Jerry Russell

    Jerry Russell Administrator Staff Member

    Forum member Marcilla Smith posted this RT video about transgender persons in the US. She says that she herself appears in the video starting at 7:09.

    I finally found the time to watch the complete video this morning.

    I'm hesitant to say anything, because the video mentions that one in three transsexual persons winds up committing suicide. This makes me nervous that I could somehow make a bad situation worse.

    Also, saying anything at all seems to be the opposite of Politically Correct; like asking a black person about race issues. How gauche.

    But what the heck. I'll be bold and say what's on my mind.

    I'm curious about Marcilla's experience or views as a transgender person, with respect to three milieu:

    (1) New World Order conspiracy theorists. A suspicion has occasionally been expressed, that the transgender and transsexual phenomenon is an expression of an Illuminati plot to undermine traditional cultural institutions such as the family.

    I don't think we've ever talked about this much here, except that I have a subliminal (and possibly wrong) memory of Joe expressing some skepticism about Caitlyn Jenner on a podcast some time ago.

    For an example of this view, see Henry Makow,

    ...the Illuminati promote the idea that gender is a flexible "feeling," not a fixed biological & psychological state. This undermines traditional societal notions of identity, and morality, making people easier to manipulate. It plays into the depopulation agenda outlined in the UN's notorious Agenda 21.

    On an esoteric level, the various secret societies hold androgyny and homosexuality in high esteem. Their worship of the hermaphroditic goat demon Baphomet has been widely documented.
    (2) The workplace. Many jobs tend to be gender identified. While the situation is changing and the women's rights movement has opened up many peoples' minds, and opened cross-gender opportunities, I'm sure that the stereotypical expectations are still reflected in statistical realities.

    I'm curious if there is a problem for transgenders, with confusion over which gender role they are expected to take in the workplace? I found myself experiencing this confusion too -- I was genuinely offering the situation at Vedrica as possible employment, and found myself wondering how Marcilla would feel about the idea that she could become a forestry worker. Of course I'm sure that there are a few women who work as loggers, but it's mostly considered to be a man's job.

    The link above also reflects this confusion, as the issue is that a trans woman has continued to work as a mixed martial arts cage fighter, and is now fighting against women after her transition. The writer at Makow's site sees this as a deliberate provocation.

    The video lists Marcilla's profession as "Special Forces [ret.]", which is another stereotypically masculine occupation.

    (3) The church. Owing to confusion between gender identification and sexual preference, transsexuality can easily be confused with homosexuality. It's mostly believed that transgendered persons are very rare, perhaps one in 10,000. Before modern times, I'm not sure if the phenomenon was ever recognized or labelled, except generally as a type of "corruption". The abbreviation "LGBT" tends to encourage this perception that all atypical gender phenomena can be grouped into a lump.

    One of the commenters to the RT video takes what I would consider a traditional Christian viewpoint:

    You can call yourself a Christian. However, if you're practicing sodomy, you are none of Christs. You may think you know him but he definitely doesn't know you. True followers of Christ are to love God and others. There is nothing in the Bible that tells us to accept a person's sinful lifestyle. Sodomy is fornication. Those who indulge in this sin are going to Hell. Repent before it's too late.
    I know that many LGBT folks come to the Unitarian group because it's a welcoming place. I wonder if there are very many traditional Catholic or Evangelical churches that are similarly welcoming? I imagine that many LGBT persons would feel they are walking into hostile foreign territory, when walking into a traditionalist church.
  2. Jerry, you express your curiosity with such grace. Thank you.

    As to #1, the idea that the presence of people identified as transgender is solely the result of a plot (Illuminati, NWO, or otherwise) goes against the anthropological evidence that persons who were gender non-conforming existed and continue to exist cross-culturally (including hunter-gatherer societies), as well as the neuroscientific evidence that brains which appear structurally similar to cis-feminine brains do end up in people assigned male at birth, as well as brains which appear structurally similar to cis-masculine brains ending up in people assigned female at birth.

    OTOH, when I presented this evidence from an article in Nature to someone, he dismissed the evidence as part of the plot (although, IIRC, he said it was "the Jews," who are responsible). Clearly, if such a conspiracy exists at that level, it's echelons above my pay grade, so wouldn't even be relevant to me.

    Now when considering gender roles in a more general sense, then I think it's absolutely unavoidable that whoever has the prestige in society will end up altering the trends as they see fit. Although, they also will have to conform to expectations in order to achieve and maintain that level of prestige, so it is a system with a feedback loop mechanism. IOW, the more "the public" responds to celebrities who defy gender norms, the more the window within which that celebrities gender can occupy moves towards greater defiance. In this, I independently reached the same conclusion as Roseanne: that some of the people with the greatest power to alter culture are the ones who control the focus group research for the entertainment industry.

    2) In a weird way, society at large, and the people within it who are transgender conspire (unconsciously) to "hyper-genderize" those persons who are trans. What I mean, is that it seems that men who are transmasculine are much more likely to find work, and if they are not still working in whatever lesbian-run non-profit agency (forgive the stereotype) they were before transition, then they probably do construction or similar.

    And they prolly do pretty well wherever they are due to certain complex social factors. Imagine, if you will, a beta male who is just so happy to be a guy at all so that he poses no threat to the alpha males, but also lacks the level of lox self-esteem of so many betas. Of course, I am talking in gross over-generalizations!

    For a woman who is trans-feminine, the social factors tend to work strongly against her (and even in saying this, I am hyper-expressing the role of the "victim woman." Mercy!). Can you imagine being a woman auto mechanic or cop, but also being trans on top of it? I've known those ladies, and they ended up drawing a lot of unwanted attention, to put it mildly. On the flipside, if you want to go into early childhood education, for example, then it just "proves" to certain people what a sicko you really are. Then there's that "one particular industry" where society seems to really want women who are transfeminine to work, only most of the work there is illegal :: throws hands up :: Is it any wonder a person is 4 times more likely to have been to jail if transgender?

    For the record, I was separated from the Army before earning retirement, and although I was assigned to a Special Forces unit for 5 years, I do not call myself a "Special Forces Officer."

    A woman who definitely was a Special Forces officer set some landmark case law when she sued the Library of Congress a few years back over an employment discrimination suit. And we are far from the only women with similar backgrounds. Nowadays, it is less frequent with more support available for women (and men, and the emerging "non-binary") at a younger age, so there is less pressure to try to "make a man out of yourself," which is how most of us describe that period of our lives.

    I have read an opposing view that actually what "we" represent is a deviation from "true transexualism" in that we are just alpha males who etoricize our own bodies in feminine terms. Aside from that fact that there are more than a few of us whose life experience defies this "new binary of the reverse-binaried" (I have traits listed as evidence of both 'types' reported by such theorists), there's also the fact that I don't know how much of a distinction I could draw between their description of the "not a 'true transsexual' transsexual" and many women I know who are cis-feminine.

    3) As already mentioned, persons who are gender non-conforming appear in the anthropological evidence cross-culturally. Its biological basis is inextricable from the phenomenon of gender as a whole - the brain is "sexually dimorphic," and the identity of the brain occasionally does not match the external identification.

    As for "LGBT," trans-activists and advocates are fond of saying that "gender and sexual orientation are COMPLETELY different!" While I certainly get the point they're trying to make, the literal meaning of the words they use must appear inaccurate, bordering on absurd, to anyone who has ever considered the intersection of their own gender and sexual identity.

    If by "traditional Christian viewpoint" you mean mainline protestantism, I would say it's better summed up as, "hmm, yes, well, I don't know that I followed everything you were saying, but it certainly has been lovely having a moment to chat, and now if you'll excuse me, I'm afraid I'm running late for a meeting, but let's talk more about this later." This could pretty well sum up the unofficially-official position of all mainline protestantism on pretty much every subject.

    I was a member of a UU congregation in Orlando, and regularly attended one in East TN. At the risk of sounding as if I'm bragging, I still send a portion of my tithe to both.

    I applied to intern at an Evangelical TV station (WLXI, TCT). They didn't seem to know what to do with me. Getting someone from a "higher church" is somewhat akin to "marrying up." I successfully kept from flinching when they mentioned "speaking in tongues" and "homosexual perversions," but a schedule conflict prevented me from committing to the times they had available.

    I've been attending mass every week since last fall, and weekly RCIA since shortly thereafter. We haven't broached the conversation yet, although the priest did ask for a copy of my baptismal certificate. I've had to get one re-issued, and I hope to receive that in the mail this week :: crosses fingers ::

    Incidentally, before the current occupants, the Vatican Hill was home to the Sybil's prophetesses, who were themselves transfeminine ;)
  3. One thought on the video: the gentleman who shot it was Russian Orthodox, and was one of the people who encouraged me to try Christianity again. I've thought I should reach out to him to see if he's interested in any follow up, particularly in the wake of NC's infamous HB2
  4. Jerry Russell

    Jerry Russell Administrator Staff Member

    Hi Marcilla,

    I'm having a little trouble understanding the terminology, as well as the way you're using it in the post above.

    Wikipedia has this article on "Classification of Transsexual People" which talks about the Harry Benjamin Sexual Orientation Scale. The SOS uses a person's place on the Kinsey scale, as a means for establishing whether a person is a "true transsexual", or merely a "transvestite". Transvestites rate low on the Kinsey scale, while "True Transsexuals" are high on the scale. The article claims that "transvestites" normally don't seek medical sex conversion procedures, while the "True TS" often do.

    But what I don't get, is whether this score on the Kinsey scale is based on the person's birth gender, or their desired target gender. Again referring to Wikipedia for basic information, we find that "transvestism" is simply the practice of dressing or acting in the style of the opposite sex. My stereotypical view is that most individuals who make a regular practice of this, are homosexuals of two particular varieties. There are men who are "fems" aka "queens" who are oriented towards men who are "masc", i.e. tough gay guys. And then there are butch lesbians who dress like men, and who want to date femme lesbians.

    So let's consider a transgender person who is a male by birth, but identifies as female. If that person wants to have sex with a masculine man, what is that person's Kinsey score? Are they a zero (based on their self-identification), or a six (based on their birth gender)? If you assign a score of zero, then the classification table in the Wikipedia article makes sense. Such a person would generally be viewed in cis / hetero society as a homosexual, a man who wants sexual relations with other men. But the internal reality of such a person is different, she would identify as a girl who likes guys; that is, to the extent that she is able to achieve harmony of body and mind, she would approximate a normal cis woman in physical appearance, brain configuration, and sexual preference.

    On the other end of the scale, we have "true transsexuals" who score high on the Kinsey scale. If that means their preference is the opposite of the "transvestite", then such a person prefers women as sex partners. So she would aspire to have the body of a woman, and the brain of a woman, but she wants to have sex with women? If such a person were to squelch any public expression of their sexual identity, people would see "him" as a normal heterosexual man, and maybe he would get married and be very happy with his partner, who would be a normal cis hetero woman. "He" would just be unhappy with the need to "pass himself off" as a man, right? Is this how Juno in the documentary got through his ~30 years of marriage?

    Now, here's where my brain gets warped. If this "true transsexual" person comes "out" as a woman, and gets his sex change operation, his cis partner is pretty likely to freak out and lose attraction. So does "she" now seek out another "true transsexual", that is, a person who self-identifies as a woman who likes women? Is this a likely couple: two men by birth, perhaps in medical transition to become more feminine, who think of themselves as lesbian women?

    Cis people would tend to see just a couple of gay guys, right?

    Would a "True Transsexual" be equally happy with a woman who was born as a woman, whose sexual preference was for femme women?

    From your remarks, and watching you on the documentary, you seem to be a "true transsexual", not a "transvestite", according to the SOS definition. Are there some people whose view of who is a "true transsexual" is the opposite of the SOS? Or has my cis guy blockhead brain just completely lost it?
    Last edited: Apr 4, 2017
  5. Jerry Russell

    Jerry Russell Administrator Staff Member

    I suppose this is more on-topic to the site, if not to this thread. If you contact this Russian Orthodox film producer, why not discuss our Postflavian documentary project? I wonder if RT would fund something like this? And supposing we were to accept funding from such a source -- would this be an evil alliance with the Illuminated ones, and an affront to the FSM?
  6. Jerry Russell

    Jerry Russell Administrator Staff Member

    Marcilla, I'm really trying to grok these concepts... What is a "new binary of the reverse-binaried"? What do you mean by saying that there's not much of a distinction between "not a 'true transsexual' transsexual" and a girl like my pirate wench? You've twisted my dude's brain into a pretzel, please come back?
  7. Are you sure that's a good idea? People complain about being lost as they are wandering around with their heads stuck in the fairytales of their youth, but then also complain about the disillusion of the fairytale that comes with understanding. Are you sure you want the band-aid ripped off, particularly as what lies underneath is so gross?

    I was referring to the Blanchard's transsexualism typology, listed in the wikipedia article. It has some currency within "conservative" circles, but not so with the medical or gender variant communities. As they want to classify all women who are transfeminine into one of two types, therefore I called it a "new binary" - possibly suggesting that the underlying motivation of the adherents is to maintain some kind of binary even in a group which defies some aspect of the conventional binary.

    This isn't to say that I find Blanchard's theory completely without some interesting points. Nonetheless, it strikes me as something most attractive to people whose ways of thinking will neither allow them to deny the scientific evidence recognizing trans phenomenon, nor the social mandate to deny it. Therefore, this theory is a way to try to eat their cake and still have it.

    ...but I'm the one with the "psychological issues," of course :: eye roll ::

    It's more like I'm saying I'd like to hear one of the Blanchard defenders distinguish between their idea of "a typical cis-hetero-feminine woman" and "an alpha male who eroticizes the idea of his own feminine form" (an "autogynephilic male," in their terms).

    Here, I disagree with the language they use, even when speaking in terms of their own truth. They use a term such as "autogynephilic" (self - female - love) to describe a group of people who reject men as romantic interests. Forgive my heterosexism, but isn't there some implication of desire for a more masculine counterpart in the roman-tic concept of feminine desire? Consequently, what they call "autogynephilic," I have said they might call "autogynephobic" - for the fear some women who are transfeminine have in embracing their own femininity and internalizing it beyond clothing, external morphology, etc.

    Returning to your stereotypical "pirate wench"...

    if one removes the external trappings of her femininity - including her reassuring smile and playful body language - how is this person with whom one is left qualitatively different from the "strong, silent type" of the masculine form, quietly standing beside the "other" (now "other-ed") pirate wench, surveying the social landscape, a stabilizing keel in the group structure?

    More, later...
    Last edited: Apr 8, 2017
  8. Jerry Russell

    Jerry Russell Administrator Staff Member

    OK, thanks. Would it be a true summary to say that both the SOS and the Blanchard typology are based on sexual preference; that is, Kinsey scale? According to the SOS, a trans M-F person who has a strong preference for male partners, is called a "transvestite" (type II or III) and is described as having a Kinsey score of 0 to 2 (strongly heterosexual). So the Kinsey score according to SOS is relative to the person's self-perception as a female. Whereas, Blanchard describes that same person as a "homosexual" TS, who presumably would be assigned a Kinsey score closer to 6 relative to their birth gender. I gather that Blanchard considers this transvestite to be a "True" transsexual, while Benjamin considers the "non-homosexual transsexuals" to be the "True" ones.

    So they're assigning opposite value judgments to the same observed phenomenon. Am I grokking it now?

    It's an empirical question, right? Among cis men and women, sexual preference is also a pretty strong binary property. That is, the majority of cis men are romantically attracted to cis women, and vice versa. In a recent self-reporting survey of British citizens, 87% of all adults scored themselves from 0 to 2 on the Kinsey scale, 2% self-evaluated as exactly bisexual (Kinsey=3), and 6% stated moderate to complete degrees of homosexuality. Among the ones with hetero preferences, a self-score of zero was the most common; while among those with homosexual leanings, a self-score of six was the most common answer. So a binary-bipolar model doesn't capture all the nuance by any means, but it's not so terribly wrong either.

    So what's going on with trans-sexuals? Is there a prevalent sexual preference among TS people, or is it more equally distributed? Or are TS people more likely to be bisexually happy with partners of either gender? Or do TS mainly prefer other TS? Perhaps it's not even particularly helpful here to talk about statistics, given that people are individuals.

    OK, let me explain this "pirate wench" thing. I'm really uncomfortable with the "husband and wife" model, because it implies a sort of dutiful ownership contract. The partners pledge to each other "'until death do us part" and until recently, that meant that the wife was an item of chattel property. Statistics show that ~50% of all marriages end in divorce, and almost all the rest are miserable.

    My wench and I got hitched in a Unitarian ceremony in 1981. Our vow was to stick together "as long as the love lasts". Somehow, that worked. I also call her my girlfriend. It's a great thing to have a girlfriend.

    You disappointed me, Marcilla. I was expecting some sort of fish taco cannibal imagery under that spoiler hat. :)

    I think what you're talking about here is another sexual binary polarity, that of leadership and strength of purpose, versus nurturing cooperation. Or in other words, dominance vs. submission. Among cis couples, I think that the dominant male and submissive female pattern is more aligned with genetic predispositions, on average. Feminist culture tends to encourage the opposite dynamic, which in my opinion is another reason a lot of modern marriages don't work so well.

    And I have no idea where most transsexuals, or any particular transsexual, would fall along this dominant to submissive scale.
    Last edited: Apr 8, 2017
  9. Jerry Russell

    Jerry Russell Administrator Staff Member

  10. The short answer is, "yes, I will." Having said as much, let me add some clarifications.

    While my own calling has some overlap with the evangelism of PF, there are still some fundamental differences. PF (as far as I can tell, but have been shooed away from asking) is deprecating of Biblical theology, instead awaiting the revelations of the FSM (sauce be upon him). I, otoh, have come to see the faith and institutions of my ancestors as my cross to bear, for better and for worse.

    So RT would most likely not be an appropriate funding source for my intentions (my preferred target audience is fellow mainline protestants). I'd be surprised if they would be eager to fund anything that challenges the elite as a whole, as opposed to just those in the US or otherwise outside of Russia. Also, I think there is something of a post-communist resurgence in the influence of the church, although I'm far from an expert on Russian culture.

    Regardless, I would certainly talk with him about the projects, and will be more than willing to raise a wine-soaked sponge for you when your claim has been (hopefully never) staked along the Appian Way

    Dr. Harry Benjamin made the effort to treat and study people who are transgender at a time when no one was, and for that, the official Standards of Care were named for him. Nonetheless, the research he did was very early and used language that has now been deprecated. I don't know any source that uses it any longer, so I couldn't tell you anything beyond what was in the wikipedia article, sorry

    Most crossdressers are otherwise cis-hetero-masculine presenting men who wear women's clothes in secret. I have seen estimates of 10% from many sources.

    There is an organization with chapters internationally known as Tri-Ess (Society of the Second Skin) which caters specifically to crossdressers, where they even get together and dress as women in semi-public to public spaces. I presume there are men who dress as women for the "thrill" of it, but the ones who I've met from Tri-Ess say they do it to "feel more relaxed" and tend not to dress "sexy." For some, it's a "waiting room" until they are ready to come out as transfeminine. I could only speculate as to what is really at play for the others :: shrugs ::

    Juno is pretty public about her life. However, we were roommates for several months, so I'm not sure how much I should say specific to her situation.

    In general, there are many women who are transfeminine who lived for years presenting as cis-hetero-masculine men, many of them married, many of them with children, often with stories of attempted or seriously-contemplated suicide due to their secret.

    Here I'll engage in some self-disclosure: because although I seem to be much happier and mentally more well-adjusted after transition, very at ease socially, contributing to society, and feel more "at home" amongst other women (trans or cis) than with men, there is still this nagging sense of being a "stranger in a strange land" in a world where literally 99.99% of the population has no first hand experience of having lived for years as "the other" gender, yet it is the only life experience I know.

    So it leaves me sometimes wondering if it even matters what parts of me are "this gender" or "that gender" when maybe my experience of gender is more fundamentally "trans" than it is "female" versus "male." And it seems to me that despite my own state's HB2, nonetheless my experience is that society - even the church - seems to want me to be "transgender." At the risk of sounding flip, maybe better it be me than the 50% who take their own lives :: shrugs ::

    I assume the part where I'm supposed to better understand how cisgender people think is a joke ;)

    Yes, I have seen on multiple occasions where two women who are transfeminine have gotten wed to one another. A twist you didn't mention yet is a pair of people who are transgender in a hetero-presenting couple. I have seen this also multiple times, and my last boyfriend is transmasculine (he identifies as a man, but was assigned female at birth). Growing up, he volunteered to be an acolyte in his UM church so that he wouldn't have to wear a dress to church

    Sorry to be lost, but equal to what?

    There are butch women who date women who are transfeminine, to whatever extent that answers your question

    Sorry, again, not totally certain what this means.

    For myself, I can say that my own observations as to orientation is that the "standard view" seems to take cis-hetero-masculinity, and then try to make everything else a reflection of that, whereas the reality is much different. Even gay men's attraction is not just "like a hetero-male's only for other men," yet that seems to be how it is presented. Women's attractions are more complicated, still... as every man loves to hate, and yet loves, nonetheless 0=)

  11. Jerry Russell

    Jerry Russell Administrator Staff Member

    We're only too happy to talk about ourselves (that is, Postflavians and Postflavianism), as long as you don't hold us to being both (or all three) the same. Also, we try to avoid any commitment to being consistent (or, that is, "orthodox") from day to day.

    We acknowledge that the FSM (pbuHna) is the visible manifestation of the Invisible Pink Unicorn, and as such, has the property of non-existence. In other words, when we consult the FSM, we are only talking to ourselves.

    I thought all of us straight guys do that!

    I myself have even occasionally shaved my legs and donned a negligee and heels and makeup and gone out to strut my stuff. And I'm totally normal, trust me. I live for Halloween.

    My wench and I enjoy swapping roles occasionally. Uh-oh, did I say we're totally normal? Most of the time :)

    Seriously, I think we're both more androgynous than average, and both of us have some crossover traits. I like chick flicks better than football games. She's very logical and scientifically minded, and says that surviving a physics & chemistry program at college put hair on her chest. But for all of that, it's clear who has the tab and who has the slot.

    If I woke up one morning and found myself in a female body, I don't think it would especially bother me, or make me miserable or suicidal. I'd just be curious about what this new and different experience would be like.

    Being a guy is OK with me too. If I were ever to seek medical attention for gender issues, it would be for a testosterone booster.

    Getting back to this: I do accept the idea that these are real biological phenomena. But on the other hand, is it also possible that the illuminati NWO plot is somehow milking this and accentuating it? Teenagers encouraged to get sex change operations before they're old enough to have even tried to live in the skins they were born with? MK-Ultra secret sex confusion potions, randomly distributed?

    Vigilant Citizen, in the link below, is complaining about the media circus surrounding Bruce (aka Caitlyn) Jenner. He sees the phenomenon as an attack on typical cis hetero males. But at least he doesn't question that Jenner's self-experience is real and accurately portrayed.

    Getting a sex change operation would seem to be a rather extreme form of Lifetime Acting for someone with a hardcore masculine identity -- I can't believe anything like that is involved.
    Last edited: Apr 9, 2017
  12. Jerry Russell

    Jerry Russell Administrator Staff Member

    I was thinking about this, and realized my comment might be taken as an insensitive denial of the validity of others' perception. I don't mean to question the depth of others' negative experience of the situation, or their suffering. And, not having actually had the experience myself, it might be much more disturbing that I can imagine.
  13. Richard Stanley

    Richard Stanley Administrator

    I would be remiss if I didn't point out to Marcilla that the FSM has multivariate pastafestations. In regards to the topic, the 'penne' (and some others such as the 'cheesy' macaroni) form is inherently hermaphroditic and thus is proof of the FSM's supremacy as the only valid Source of Existence.

    Separately from that, yet still on topic, a friend of a friend took the pick-up line / joke "I'm a lesbian trapped in a man's body" to the extreme and thus converted so that he could be with lesbians, as a trans-lesbian. Sorry if that's not the right term, but we need a glossary here.
  14. Richard Stanley

    Richard Stanley Administrator

    We deprecate Biblical theology? Says who and whom? We illuminate Biblical theology, transcending the need for Faith in the new age. PF is the first known organization in the Universe that has revealed the correct meta-identity of God. We teach the correct way to interpret the Bible, the Word of Globo-God, aka pharaoh, caesar, czar, king of kings, pope, etc.. Praise the Lord and Pass the Ammunition!!

    And you see, we are transgender too.

    LOOk, the Sunday Assemblies are coming ever closer to you. I'll bet you can even bring pasta and soup to an SA 'smoup'.

    Among those attending Sunday Assembly Charlotte:

    • Nicole Ciaramella, 29, an accounting student from Indian Trail, said she came Sunday because “I wanted to see something different.”
    Raised Roman Catholic in Long Island, N.Y., she said she subscribes to a personal spirituality that borrows a little bit from various religions but doesn’t adhere completely to any.

    When she moved to Charlotte in 2010, she was told she should go to church to meet people. But, she said, “for many churches, if you don’t share their belief, you’re an outcast.”

    Will she return to Sunday Assembly? “Absolutely,” she said. “It’s an opportunity to come to a place where everybody has their own beliefs but we can be together.”

    • Andrew Riebe, 33, a programmer and podcaster, is a Buddhist who believes in a higher power.
    A Charlotte native whose parents were not churchgoers, Riebe said he’s always “sought truth” but never felt included whenever he attended a church, mosque or synagogue.

    “Here (at Sunday Assembly), I don’t feel excluded from anything,” he said. “We are not here arguing beliefs. ... I feel welcome.”

    • Drew Pate, 28, grew up in Charlotte and embraced atheism when he was 16. “There was nothing here (for atheists) then,” he said. “It was hard.”
    If he comes back to future Sunday Assembly gatherings, he said it’ll be because of the people and the environment of openness he found Sunday.

    “What’s selling it for me is being able to find other people who may have experienced what it’s like to be atheist,” he said. “They’re willing to talk about it and not necessarily make judgments.”
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 24, 2017
  15. Jerry Russell

    Jerry Russell Administrator Staff Member

    Did I say that? Going out in drag on Halloween, and liking chick flicks, makes me transgender? I was trying to show some empathy of thought process, I hope it didn't come across like I was making fun of it.
    Last edited: Apr 24, 2017
  16. I'm compelled to address this first. Please excuse me for leaving you to think this. At the risk of seeming to be making excuses, my recent promotion has come with a shift in my work schedule, disrupting my daily routine and sleep pattern, as well as leaving me to work 6 days in a row, and on Holy Week, which furthermore coincides with the week before taxes are due (to say nothing of anything else going on in my life).

    "Remember that what is insulting is is not the person who abuses you or hits you, but the judgment about them that they are insulting" -- Epictetus

    "Hatred stirs up strife, but love covers all offenses" -- Proverbs 10:12 (NRSV)
  17. Jerry Russell

    Jerry Russell Administrator Staff Member

    Marcilla, congratulations on your recent promotion. I didn't even realize you had found employment. Maybe you said something earlier, and I missed it?

    Yes, I had the idea that you had nothing else to do, aside from working on what you described as your "calling" (the film on the Postflavian hypothesis) and posting here to talk with us about it.

    From now on, I won't be alarmed or make any assumptions if we don't hear from you.
  18. It's kind of like asking if you grok Lamarck's theory of evolution - I'm not familiar enough to say, in no small part because it's generally deprecated

    At the risk of seeming to be - pardon my language - deflating your athletic equipment, I think the questions are inadequately constructed. In a more general sense, I think the concept of feminine "inclinations" are presumed to be some mirror image of their masculine counterparts, meanwhile I think the reality is more complex. Even in this quoted section, romance is virtually equated with more visceral attractions. I think men tend to hold something more like this view than women do

    Yes, and people change over time. Oftentimes, we're talking about adults going through a second puberty, followed by and/or overlapping with a second quarterlife crisis, etc. "It's complicated" sounds like such a cop out here, but I'm already so far behind in responding to this thread...

    Within the community can be found homebodies so terrified to risk themselves that describing a preference is a pointlessly academic. At the other end of the spectrum would be women who are sure they're going to die and "living for the moment," and guys who suddenly "get on T" and their "drive" becomes a Ferrari, if you will

    Sorry for my confusion, i was thinking of the wenches who were posted to an earlier thread. Congrats to you and your girlfriend. I had trouble finding her in the podcast, though :/

    I didn't realize things were so traditional out on the left coast. My experience in the Southland is that typically "the mare is the better horse," as the old saying goes. I think with women better able to provide for themselves than even just a few decades ago, and still with a higher "biological value" in "interpersonal matters," it's no wonder to me that women are more likely to be the ones who file first when it's time to divorce, and I think men are generally aware of this on some level. They aren't as dumb as some strains of feminism would have us believe ;)

    Most will self-identify as submissive, but as with every other aspect of our identity, others often have differing opinions. I've been accused of being a "crypto-domme."

    I've heard there are slang phrases to describe more complicated power dynamic roles, but they tend to be unladylike, so I must avoid them for the preservation of my feminine modesty :: blush ::
  19. Jerry Russell

    Jerry Russell Administrator Staff Member

    One would never know that from reading the Wikipedia article. They do mention that Blanchard has his critics, but also that the theory continues to attract adherents.

    Romance is generally held to be a very complex thing, involving many levels of attraction (and usually some element of repulsion as well). But still, you can't deny the statistics. The majority of cis men choose women for their romantic partners, and vice versa. And within this broad trend, the Kinsey scale is useful for measuring the extent of homosexual variance from the heterosexual norm.

    So why wouldn't the Kinsey scale also yield statistically significant results when applied to a transgender population? It certainly seems like a viable research strategy. Without having studied the literature, I'd venture a guess that perhaps the scoffers are resisting the conclusions for ideological reasons. Having said that, it also wouldn't surprise me if the results of the Kinsey scale applied to trans-gendered people, are even less clear-cut than the results with the cis population.

    She would look right at home in that Pastafarian missionary group portrait I posted earlier. And she'd also look quite fashionable in a colander. But then, I guess it's hopelessly beta to be bragging about one's steady girlfriend.

    Sorry you had trouble with the podcast. I scanned around in it and discovered that she doesn't come in until the second hour. I give her an introduction around 1:05.

    I'm not saying my views are at all typical here in Cascadia. The scenario you describe, in which the woman considers herself "the better horse" and eventually dumps her stallion, is the way things usually work. Joe would call this "cultural degradation", I think maybe it's an elite birth control strategy.

    Up near the top of the thread, you mentioned a theory that certain transgenders are "alpha males who eroticize our own bodies in feminine terms." A similar accusation?

    No need to be bashful here... ... scratch that, maybe we've gone too far already...
    Last edited: Apr 19, 2017
  20. But if I post on this thread again, is it in any way some tacit endorsement of the recent censorship extraordinary copyeditting?

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