The Real Chief Bromden


New Member
15:05 into this video

"completely normal Mental Institution" there is no such a thing. Once a 302 is enforced its pretty damn cruel to this day (MK ultra CIA or NOT). Its the State predatory nature.

Anyways. I feel like this Critique here and that Video . Detracts from the valid dramatization for the plight of Indigineous people and the real struggle of Chief Bromden's real life people.

The struggle for clean pure water in the Columbia River Basin continues:

Here is an entire playlist

dedicated to the complexity of this struggle that Ken Kesey validly dramatized and encouraged his audience to study. Its a damn shame Jan Irvin and Joe Atwill don't see babies in this bathwater of failed LSD pushers.

Joe Atwill writes:
As quoted in my article Gregory Bateson and the Counter Culture, Bateson wrote:

The most significant experiment which has yet been conducted in the adjustment of relations between “superior” and “inferior” peoples is the Russian handling of their Asiatic tribes in Siberia. The findings of this experiment support very strongly the conclusion that it is very important to foster spectatorship among the superiors and exhibitionism among the inferiors. In outline, what the Russians have done is to stimulate the native peoples to undertake a native revival while they themselves admire the resulting dance festivals and other exhibitions of native culture, literature, poetry, music and so on.

OSS … might move gently towards making the British and the Dutch more aware of the importance of processes of this kind (Bateson 1944:6-7).

Kesey depicted Bateson’s aboriginal native revival and return to the land with his story’s ending. After the rebellious McMurphy is lobotomized, the ‘Chief’ kills McMurphy and rips apart a ‘Control Panel’, representing technology. He uses the panel to break a window at the asylum, making a triumphant escape to nature.

Thus, a reader takes in the message that ‘The Combine’ is invincible, and the only escape is to abandon any sort of struggle against their power. The message is reinforced by the fact that the Chief transitions from insane to sane by returning to nature.

At the book’s conclusion, again reiterating this message of passivity in the face of injustice, Kesey wrote:

I’ve even heard that some of the tribe have took to building their old ramshackle wood scaffolding all over that big million-dollar hydroelectric dam, and are spearing salmon in the spillway. I’d give something to see that. Mostly, I’d just like to look over the country around the gorge again, just to bring some of it clear in my mind again.

[WTF? double speak? so a "triumphant escape" from a tyrant (The Combine) makes it "invincible"? B.S.! ]

Revisiting Joe Atwill Disrespecting the Novel "One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest"

Jan Irvin and Joe Atwill May want to add "Appeal to Racist Douchebag" to their list of logical Fallacies as they apply their Trivium Method ingenuity to disrespecting a great Novel. Regarding Chief Bromdem or Chief Broom in Ken Kesey's Novel One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest: "His heritage aligns Chief with the natural world, a world that his white mother conspired to destroy when she influenced Chief's father to sell his tribal lands. This sale enabled the construction of a hydroelectric dam on the Columbia River, representing Chief's first experience of the victory of mechanization over the natural world. He remembers that his mother kept getting "bigger" while his father "shrunk" into alcoholism and despair. Insult is added to injury when Chief is forced to adopt his mother's white name, Bromden, rather than his father's Indian name."

In this video
MKULTRA and the Cuckoo's Nest - Joe Atwill
Freeman Fly
Freeman Fly 23:38 Notice how Joe Atwill EPICALLY FAILS to mention The 1FlewOverthe Cuckoo's Nest Character Chief Bromden in the novel IS in fact Half Breed Native American / Half White American from a Columbia River Basin and the historical disrespect For American Indians & First people with All the HORRORS specific to A Columbia River Native: of Hanford Nuke waste dump, Dams, losing the subsistAnce fishing all this subjugation, humiliation, genocide, Indian Boarding schools, Multigenerational PTSD with Bromdem's Father suffering alcoholism -reduces all that complex trauma to fraudulent DSM-V pharmaceutical Industry label "schizophrenia" Denying Historical Trauma. Chief Broom uses "a control panel" rather than destroys & removes "control panel" to escape sterile cruel institution & captivity. Oh but the novel according to Atwill & Jan Irvin is pushing returning to wilderness to be a savage WILD hedonistic idiot? REALLY? When there's no such scene being a hedonistic wild Idiot except the character R.P. McMurphy's Fatal Flaw! Getting Drunk & failing escape, compromising Billy Bibbit with a whore etc. CONTRARY to the Redeemed mixed white & American Indian heritage!) . What a racist bigot!
Last edited:

While we still have material from Joe's prior association with us posted here, Jerry and I parted company with Joe some time ago. He had already been working with Irvin by that time, and then not too long we split ways, he and Irvin parted company on even worse terms.

Our initial attraction to Joe was his work on Christian origins, Caesar's Messiah, and such. Unfortunately, the rest of his notions were too far in the opposite direction, generally serving and fueling the cause of the fake populism today. There are problems, but the causes are not correct, nor are the solutions. And this includes the material around such as Cuckoo Nest in my opinion. If you look at the forum threads on same you'll see my counter-position to Joe's about the CIA's intent versus the actual result of their experiments, the irony being that many people see careful use of entheogens as have much benefit, as various tribal people experience.

While Jerry and I don't spend much time specifically talking about the plights of indigenous peoples, the central subtext of our work is focusing on the underlying mechanism of how Western Civilization has spread, via its contrived, synthetic opposition dialectic of Jews versus Gentiles. Since most in this world 'identify' themselves with one of these synthetic identities and the opposite as being 'satanic', then they lose sight of the humanity of all others and where they feel that they are the respective Chosen Ones, elevated beyond all others.

Unfortunately Joe was not able to extract himself from the Jew versus Gentile dialectic, for reasons that only he knows. While I suspected that he is cryptoCatholic, the listeners of the show he now contributes to complain that he definitely is not Catholic enough.

In any case, the most common subtext of the Abrahamic religions is Conquest, of a global nature. The Old Testament has 120 such assertions and the New Testament has 80. This underlies everything in Culture. This is what happens when God says that his 'people' of the day can go take the lands of others and do various vile things to any that resist (even if only in their minds).
Jan Irvin and Joe Atwill May want to add "Appeal to Racist Douchebag" to their list of logical Fallacies ... What a racist bigot!

This is not fair or accurate. Joe and I discussed the Standing Rock protests, and the plight of the Native Americans, on our show several times. Joe was always sensitive to the fact that indigenous people, and people of color, are subject to the worst abuse of anyone under the system of "Western Civilization". He also understood that rank and file Jews and Catholics are manipulated, and endangered, by the system.

Oh but the novel according to Atwill & Jan Irvin is pushing returning to wilderness to be a savage WILD hedonistic idiot? REALLY? When there's no such scene being a hedonistic wild Idiot

Surely we can all agree that the novel was indeed offering a 'native revival' or a 'return to nature', as an alternative or antidote to the Combine? And I would also agree that the depiction of this return to nature, in the novel, is very respectful. It doesn't portray the 'return to nature' as hedonistic or idiotic.

I feel that if the human race is going to have a future, there needs to be some sort of 'return to nature', or at least we need to learn to treat nature more respectfully. But I also think it's reasonable to be concerned that this 'return to nature' has been unrealistically and romantically portrayed. I think the elite would be all too happy if the vast majority of humans were reduced to a more impoverished state, closer to nature, with little or no access to modern technology. But the elite themselves aren't interested in living that way.

SCA has also been raising this question at Facebook, and Joe replied briefly, here: