The Flavian Signature - On the Road to Jerusalem - Messengers sent ahead + Mount of Olives Escape

gilius

Active Member
Made some very intriguing progress on this that puts the Mount of Olives Escape into sequence as part of a larger parallel including the messengers being sent ahead, on the road to Jerusalem. Like the John the Baptist parallel, this is quite a big discovery to further refine Joe's research, so will discuss later after colour coding! :) Stephen Campbell is going to like this one... this is BIG!
 
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gilius

Active Member
*This is now in sequence.
*After losing the ascension to Titus's escape, Jesus was cut in half by the bandits with the seasoned (blood/wine/oil) parts presented at Mary and Martha's house with a suggested value of 2+ Dinarii. Mary chooses the good part (but she actually keeps both for Wars of the Jews, 6, 3, 201-212)
*The preserved parts are later roasted by Mary (hyssop is also mentioned indicating a human passover lamb - during passover), including the saved portion (described as "treasure"), but she only eats one half and presents the good portion to the soldiers (Wars of the Jews, 6, 3, 201-212).
*Following that the good portion is sold and "rendered" to Caesar as "treasure" for merely a single Dinarius!!! :D He's then "commanded to be pruned" on the Mount of Olives in a garden named Gethsemane (means "Olive press"), where he is sweating blood. (Luke 20:19-25 vs. Wars of the Jews, 6, 2, 157-158. 161-163)
Hope that settles the case!
 

gilius

Active Member
It could be that Titus is playing the Good Samaritan here as well as the neighbour since he lodges for one night at an Inn in both stories as per CM#15 (partial parallel of the above)
 

gilius

Active Member
Based on Joe's very clever match in the previous Roman march (highlighted in grey above) - with 70 disciples to indicate the moving of many troops - it seems that Titus is indeed "taking care" of the Jesus lampoon here and usurping him at the same time. So - as potentially the most difficult/controversial/significant parallel of all - it could be that this is indeed the Jesus/lampoon who is later eaten by Mary (what happened to the other half?)

Still pondering this one... I am hoping that an attempt at decoding the entire gospels is going to lead to a more comprehensive solution as to what's occurring in the minds of the Flavian psychopaths.
 

gilius

Active Member
This is slowly coming to me... I'm starting to figure out this whole thing... like learning a new language...
 

gilius

Active Member
This is unfolding...
Going through Samaria
"entered a village of the Samaritans to make arrangements for Him"
"“The foxes have holes and the birds of the air have nests, but the Son of Man has nowhere to lay His head.” "

"Leading this force in splendour in the Roman style he marched through Samaria to "
"After lodging there one night, he proceeded in the morning "
 

gilius

Active Member
Was having another look at this over the early part of the bank holiday weekend. It seems Titus is the one who was left "half dead" and helped by the good samaritan (now makes perfect sense as a new parallel), so it can't be symbolic of Jesus/Lazarus being left "half dead"; therefore, it's back to Joe's original hypothesis: the Mary/Martha story does seem to be disjointed from the rest of the blocks here - unless it's part of the following parallel "Knocking on the door", which has reference to food in the context of feeding legions loaves of bread. Will have another look at it sometime... the matching elements in the first part of this parallel are all over the place and somewhat problematic, i.e. the son of man staying at an inn.
 

gilius

Active Member
There's 3 parallels here: this is all totally sussed out now except for the Mary/Martha part... stay tuned!
 

gilius

Active Member
Here's the first one - an extension of CM #14 "Don't bury your dead or look back":


Both Jesus and Titus, whilst passing through villages in the vicinity of Samaria, order their forces to meet at Jerusalem. Jesus' disciples symbolise the Roman soldiers, who want revenge against the Jewish people - "to call down fire" and to "destroy" them - since the previous army sent to Jerusalem (including the 12th Legion) had been defeated and killed by them; and on the road to Jerusalem the Romans want to bury their dead, but the typology reveals that Titus would rather his soldiers do not look back in sorrow as this would make them unfit for the "Kingdom of God" (symbolic of Rome) - but instead to remain strong. Jesus appointing 70 disciples to be sent ahead represents the large movement of forces being sent ahead by Titus against Jerusalem - fully armed soldiers without any civil possessions. They are described, imaginatively, as lambs working a harvest of wolves. The Son of Man - previously revealed to be Titus - "has nowhere to lay his head", so he and his troops find a suitable place to lodge for a night amongst a host family, where they can eat, drink and sleep. The Romans prefer to be welcomed as saviours instead of enemies - and the people do mostly long for peace - but have fallen under the power of the Jewish rebels; for those who happen to be unwelcoming: expect to be "trampled on" like serpents and scorpions since the Romans are "wiping off" the "town's dust that clings" to their feet "in protest" against them! This could be an allusion to an Old Testament story, 2 Kings 13, where the king of Israel and his army in Samaria were "trampled" like "dust under his feet" by the king of Aram(-Damascus?). The Roman soldiers have means to rejoice because their names are "written in heaven", i.e. they will be honoured back in Rome where Titus was sent by his father, Vespasian, whom is waiting for them to return victorious in triumph. Whoever rejects Jesus rejects God; whoever rejects Titus rejects Vespasian and the Kingdom of God (Rome).
 

gilius

Active Member
For sake of perfection I think an additional sentence JW 5.39 should also be added to the above: "039 By these impieties he hoped to defeat his enemies, but God thwarted his efforts by bringing the Romans upon him before he had completed any of his towers."

There may also be more symbolism here still to be discovered in terms of "the valley of thorns", "the hill of Saul", and reiteration about Tyre and Sodom. I guess that the valley of thorns - being outside the Roman camp - represents the Jews being brought down to Hades.
 

gilius

Active Member
I still don't think this is correct and it remains the most puzzling of all the parallels - even with Joe's insights from Caesar's Messiah and the Lazarus encounters:
 

gilius

Active Member
In that hour Jesus rejoiced in the Spirit and said, “I thank You, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that You have hidden these things from the wise and prudent and revealed them to babes. Even so, Father, for so it seemed good in Your sight. All things have been delivered to Me by My Father, and no one knows who the Son is except the Father, and who the Father is except the Son, and the one to whom the Son wills to reveal Him.”
Then He turned to His disciples and said privately, “Blessed are the eyes which see the things you see; for I tell you that many prophets and kings have desired to see what you see, and have not seen it, and to hear what you hear, and have not heard it.”
This is the hidden identity of Titus and Vespasian - but where's the parallel? How is it meant to be revealed at this point in the gospels? What "prophets and kings" have tried to see this hidden identity? Possibly this is something to do with Matthew 13 and Isaiah. Does it have any relation to the "dangers to kings under the providence of God" linked in red on the Josephus side? Joe believes the following, but how does it apply here to Luke 10?
  • In the version of Jesus' capture recounted in the Gospel of Mark there is a character described only as a naked "certain young man" who, unlike Jesus, was able to escape from the attackers. The New Testament and Wars of the Jews each placed their king in the same garden for his encounter with a band of armed men. In the New Testament, Jesus starts at the Mount of Olives, which is just outside Jerusalem's eastern edge, and walks northward to Gethsemane, from where the New Testament states that he "went a little farther." In other words, to the northeastern corner of the city. Josephus describes Titus as travelling from the tower of Psephinus, which marked the city's northwestern corner, toward the monument of Queen Helena, along Jerusalem's northern border from west to east. Notice that in his version of a garden assault, Josephus makes the reader aware that Titus was, "naked" (only figuratively speaking), that is, he was wearing no armor, to create a satirical parallel to the "naked young man" who escapes from the garden in in the New Testament.

  • Thus, the New Testament and Josephus each describe two assaults that occur in gardens near the Mount of Olives. Notice the conceptual symmetry - each pair of Mount of Olives assaults contains a "naked" individual who escapes and another individual who is captured. The point of these parallel Mount of Olives assaults is to separate the identities of the two "kings," Jesus and Titus - in other words, to separate the "king" who lives from the one who is crucified. This parallel is critically important in that it begins the process by which the New Testament's story of Jesus operates as a forerunner of the stories of both "Sons of God" described in Wars of the Jews - Eleazar (son of the Maccabean messianic lineage) and Titus. Titus is actually described by Josephus in the passage as a king when, in fact at that moment he is only the son of the emperor. This reference to Titus as a king has caught the attention of scholars, who have wondered why Josephus would have made such an obvious error. Josephus, of course, has not forgotten Titus' title. Rather, he is making a comment as to which "king", attacked in a garden outside Jerusalem, enjoys God's favour - Jesus, the king of the Jews or Titus, the "king" of the Romans. Josephus seems to be making a point as to the relative value of faith in the divine and faith in one's self, which was perhaps the same thing to the Flavians, since they saw themselves as gods.
Just then an expert in the Law stood up to test Jesus. He asked, “Teacher, what must I do to inherit eternal life?”
Jesus answered him, “What is written in the Law? What do you read there?”
Presumably the "inherit eternal life" is to become honoured under the Romans? Any other significance to this paragraph? It seems the question is asked several times in the other Gospels - linked to the 10 commandment. The "expert in the law" could resemble a priest. I have linked this to "Raised the Jews' spirits and gave them ill-founded hope" on the Josephus side, i.e. going to heaven is not what the Jews think it is.

He answered, “You must love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, with all your strength, and with all your mind. And you must love your neighbor as yourself.”
Jesus told him, “You have answered correctly. ‘Do this, and you will live.’”
But the man wanted to justify himself, so he asked Jesus, “And who is my neighbor?"
So he must love Vespasian and his own "neighbour" - to be revealed below. And the reward is simply to outlive this war scenario - not have his name carved out under Rome?

After careful consideration, Jesus replied, “A man was going down from Jerusalem to Jericho when he fell into the hands of bandits. They stripped him, beat him, and went away, leaving him half dead. By chance, a priest was traveling along that road. When he saw the man, he went by on the other side. Similarly, a descendant of Levi came to that place. When he saw the man, he also went by on the other side. But as he was traveling along, a Samaritan came across the man. When the Samaritan saw him, he was moved with compassion. He went to him and bandaged his wounds, pouring oil and wine on them. Then he put him on his own animal, brought him to an inn, and took care of him. The next day, he took out two denarii and gave them to the innkeeper, saying, ‘Take good care of him. If you spend more than that, I’ll repay you when I come back.’
Here I've listed any elements that could be of significance:
*Jerusalem to Jericho - unable to find any significant passages in the Gospels or Jewish War
*Fell into hands of bandits and beaten till half dead - any similar stories out there?
*Stripped - we know of the Lazarus stories that Joe Atwill refers to (one of them linked in pink). So many of these matching elements here between the Gospels and Josephus are convincing, but it could be that they would fail a random sampling test.
*A Priest, descendant of Levi and a Samaritan (neglected by two; saved by the third) - I can find no significant cross-references and have guessed at possible matching elements in Josephus for two of the men linked in blue (unless symbolic of enemy arrows). If unique they could just resemble a priest, a Jew and a Samaritan - any significance with Samaritans? The Priest and Levite part seems to have the vaguest of links with Isaiah: http://biblehub.com/isaiah/58-7.htm
*Bandaged wounds with oil and wine - possibly to do with Lazarus, but unlikely. One reference found in http://biblehub.com/isaiah/1.htm (1:6) but doesn't seem related.
*Put onto an animal and brought to an inn - doubt there's anything in this?
*Two denarii/denarius/coins for the innkeeper - found something interesing here to be described in a new post!
*Spending more money and possible reimbursement - can't find anything





https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parable_of_the_Good_Samaritan
 
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gilius

Active Member
“Of these three men, who do you think was a neighbor to the man who fell into the hands of the bandits?”
He said, “The one who showed mercy to him.”
Jesus told him, “Go and do what he did.”
The good Samaritan is identified as the neighbour here, i.e. the one who saved and cared for the man. And such a deed is worthy of greatness amongst the Romans - so was it Titus he saved?
Found something interesting for "love thy neighbour" to be described in a new post!

Now it happened as they went that He entered a certain village; and a certain woman named Martha welcomed Him into her house. And she had a sister called Mary, who also sat at Jesus’ feet and heard His word. But Martha was distracted with much serving, and she approached Him and said, “Lord, do You not care that my sister has left me to serve alone? Therefore tell her to help me.”
And Jesus answered and said to her, “Martha, Martha, you are worried and troubled about many things. But one thing is needed, and Mary has chosen that good part, which will not be taken away from her.”
Is this somehow linked with the previous text in Luke 10 - or completely disjointed from it? According to Joe Atwill this is more than just a story to later be recalled during the parallel "Son of mary who was a human passover lamb"; Joe believes it should be amalgamated with John so that Lazarus/Jesus becomes the food even at this early stage in the story:

Now as they went on their way, Jesus entered a village. And a woman named Martha welcomed him into her house. And she had a sister called Mary, who sat at the Lord's feet and listened to his teaching.
Six days before the Passover Feast, Jesus came to Bethany, where Lazarus was, who had died and whom He had raised from the dead.
So they made Him a supper; and Martha served, but Lazarus was one of those at the table with Him.
But Martha was distracted with much serving. And she went up to him and said, “Lord, do you not care that my sister has left me to serve alone? Tell her then to help me.” But the Lord answered her, “Martha, Martha, you are anxious and troubled about many things, but one thing is necessary. Mary has chosen the good portion, which will not be taken away from her.”
(Luke 10:38-39, John 12:1-2, Luke 10:40-42)

Mary being at the Lord's feet would appear to represent Mary bowing down to Titus as opposed to sitting by one half of a dead body. See http://biblehub.com/deuteronomy/33-3.htm + http://biblehub.com/2_kings/4-38.htm





https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jesus_at_the_home_of_Martha_and_Mary
 
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gilius

Active Member
The 2 significant discoveries are both found in Mark 12 (highlighted in dark blue) and seem to suggest the Good Samaritan and the Mary/Martha passages are linked together via the "Son of mary who was a human passover lamb", i.e burnt offerings and the son of david quotes that are covered in the relevant topic. Two coins are deposited in the temple treasury by a widow - possibly Mary or Martha - or is more cross-referencing needed here? (or is the latter completely insignificant?)
The widow's deposit is repeated in Matthew as a strange interruption to Jesus' Doomsday Prophecies - why?
Even more strange: the rest of Mark 12 (highlighted in light blue) also seems relevant to the Good Samaritan and the Mary/Martha passages (the most puzzling of all parallels). So it seems my logical path of inquiry has led entirely to Mark 12 to provide answers to these strange puzzling parallels:

Mark 12 (NKJV)
The Parable of the Wicked Vinedressers
12 Then He began to speak to them in parables: “A man planted a vineyard and set a hedge around it, dug a place for the wine vat and built a tower. And he leased it to vinedressers and went into a far country. 2 Now at vintage-time he sent a servant to the vinedressers, that he might receive some of the fruit of the vineyard from the vinedressers. 3 And they took him and beat him and sent him away empty-handed. 4 Again he sent them another servant, and at him they threw stones, wounded him in the head, and sent him away shamefully treated. 5 And again he sent another, and him they killed; and many others, beating some and killing some. 6 Therefore still having one son, his beloved, he also sent him to them last, saying, ‘They will respect my son.’ 7 But those vinedressers said among themselves, ‘This is the heir. Come, let us kill him, and the inheritance will be ours.’ 8 So they took him and killed him and cast him out of the vineyard.
9 “Therefore what will the owner of the vineyard do? He will come and destroy the vinedressers, and give the vineyard to others. 10 Have you not even read this Scripture:
‘The stone which the builders rejected
Has become the chief cornerstone.
11 This was the Lord’s doing,
And it is marvelous in our eyes’?”
12 And they sought to lay hands on Him, but feared the multitude, for they knew He had spoken the parable against them. So they left Him and went away.

The Pharisees: Is It Lawful to Pay Taxes to Caesar?
13 Then they sent to Him some of the Pharisees and the Herodians, to catch Him in His words. 14 When they had come, they said to Him, “Teacher, we know that You are true, and care about no one; for You do not regard the person of men, but teach the way of God in truth. Is it lawful to pay taxes to Caesar, or not? 15 Shall we pay, or shall we not pay?”
But He, knowing their hypocrisy, said to them, “Why do you test Me? Bring Me a denarius that I may see it.” 16 So they brought it.
And He said to them, “Whose image and inscription is this?” They said to Him, “Caesar’s.”
17 And Jesus answered and said to them, “Render to Caesar the things that are Caesar’s, and to God the things that are God’s.”
And they marveled at Him.

The Sadducees: What About the Resurrection?
18 Then some Sadducees, who say there is no resurrection, came to Him; and they asked Him, saying: 19 “Teacher, Moses wrote to us that if a man’s brother dies, and leaves his wife behind, and leaves no children, his brother should take his wife and raise up offspring for his brother.20 Now there were seven brothers. The first took a wife; and dying, he left no offspring. 21 And the second took her, and he died; nor did he leave any offspring. And the third likewise. 22 So the seven had her and left no offspring. Last of all the woman died also. 23 Therefore, in the resurrection, when they rise, whose wife will she be? For all seven had her as wife.”
24 Jesus answered and said to them, “Are you not therefore mistaken, because you do not know the Scriptures nor the power of God? 25 For when they rise from the dead, they neither marry nor are given in marriage, but are like angels in heaven. 26 But concerning the dead, that they rise, have you not read in the book of Moses, in the burning bushpassage, how God spoke to him, saying, ‘I am the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob’?27 He is not the God of the dead, but the God of the living. You are therefore greatly mistaken.”


The Scribes: Which Is the First Commandment of All?
28 Then one of the scribes came, and having heard them reasoning together, perceiving that He had answered them well, asked Him, “Which is the first commandment of all?”
29 Jesus answered him, “The first of all the commandments is: ‘Hear, O Israel, the Lord our God, the Lord is one. 30 And you shall love the Lordyour God with all your heart, with all your soul, with all your mind, and with all your strength.’ This is the first commandment.31 And the second, like it, is this: ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ There is no other commandment greater than these.”
32 So the scribe said to Him, “Well said, Teacher. You have spoken the truth, for there is one God, and there is no other but He. 33 And to love Him with all the heart, with all the understanding, with all the soul,and with all the strength, and to love one’s neighbor as oneself, is more than all the whole burnt offerings and sacrifices.”
34 Now when Jesus saw that he answered wisely, He said to him, “You are not far from the kingdom of God.”
But after that no one dared question Him.


Jesus: How Can David Call His Descendant Lord?
35 Then Jesus answered and said, while He taught in the temple, “How is it that the scribes say that the Christ is the Son of David? 36 For David himself said by the Holy Spirit:
‘The Lord said to my Lord,
“Sit at My right hand,
Till I make Your enemies Your footstool.”’
37 Therefore David himself calls Him ‘Lord’; how is He then his Son?”
And the common people heard Him gladly.


Beware of the Scribes
38 Then He said to them in His teaching, “Beware of the scribes, who desire to go around in long robes, love greetings in the marketplaces,39 the best seats in the synagogues, and the best places at feasts, 40 who devour widows’ houses, and for a pretense make long prayers. These will receive greater condemnation.”

The Widow’s Two Mites
41 Now Jesus sat opposite the treasury and saw how the people put money into the treasury. And many who were rich put in much. 42 Then one poor widow came and threw in two mites, which make a quadrans.43 So He called His disciples to Himself and said to them, “Assuredly, I say to you that this poor widow has put in more than all those who have given to the treasury; 44 for they all put in out of their abundance, but she out of her poverty put in all that she had, her whole livelihood.”
 

Ameen Khalid

New Member
Made some very intriguing progress on this that puts the Mount of Olives Escape into sequence as part of a larger parallel including the messengers being sent ahead, on the road to Jerusalem. Like the John the Baptist parallel, this is quite a big discovery to further refine Joe's research, so will discuss later after colour coding! :) Stephen Campbell is going to like this one... this is BIG!
So It W
 
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