The Case for De Vere

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Richard Stanley

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Not having vouched for the data, Alan Green discusses below that the King's Chamber's and its 'sarcophagus' volume encodes the Fine Structure Constant of 1:137. A search reveals that others have noted this.

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A search revealed the following:

“Now let us analyze the other two occupants of the inner Sanctuary or Oracle. They are the two cherubim who guard the Ark ... [and] "The Molten Sea" ...There are also two other elements of the Temple of which they are the image, and these other two units are the Great Pyramid and the Inner Court (The Molten Sea = 137 = MG = Two Cherubim = Great Pyramid = Inner Court. All four of these elements are reflections of each other, and they constitute the real key to understanding the mystery of the Temple of Solomon. ..."The Ark of the Covenant of the Lord" [is] a mirror image of "The Great Pyramid of the Emperor" ....” ​

It appears that it is being stated that the Ark of the Covenant dimensionally is to the Solomon's Temple Holy of Holies as the KC sarcophagus is to the KC. Elsewhere Green mentions the metaphorical 'sectioning' of Osiris in a similar vein, and of course, we're all aware of the asserted linkages of the Jesus and the Virgin Mary to Osiris's Horus and Isis.

“Was Giza the mirror of the sky? In addition, what was the number 137 purpose? The number 137 has a very amazing meaning and it can range from modern Science to Kabbalah, from Archetypes numerology to Eastern philosophy, from smaller particles to the law of Universal Balance. ... Did the builders want to convey their scientific knowledge through the Pyramids proportions? ... Was their function connected to the number 137?” ​

“The Sabians were allowed to build a new Temple of the Moon God, and to continue their religious rites, after the Arab General Ibn Ghanam conquered Harran in the seventh century AD. This in itself is a sign of most unusual favor, since Islamic armies normally offered "pagans" the choice of either conversion or death. Even more interesting, however, is the Sabians' encounter with the Abbasid Caliph Abu Jafar Abdullah al-Ma'mun, who passed through their city in AD 830 and reportedly quizzed them intensively on their religion.​
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Remembering the Sabian pilgrimages to Giza, it is reasonable to wonder whether there is any connection with the fact that in AD 820, a decade before he visited Harran, it was Ma'mun who tunnelled into the Great Pyramid and opened its previously hidden passageways and chambers. Indeed, it is through "Ma'mun's Hole" that visitors still enter the monument today. Described by Gibbon as "a prince of rare learning," it seems Ma'mun's investigation was prompted by information he'd received about the Great Pyramid, specifically that it contained: 'a secret chamber with maps and tables of the celestial and terrestrial spheres. Although they were said to have been made in the remote past, they were supposed to be of great accuracy.” ​

I imaging that elsewhere in Hancock's book he mentions that these 'pagan' Sabians were accorded status as Peoples of the Book, along with Christians and Jews (and a few others) by Muhammad.
 
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Richard Stanley

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As Alan Green has demonstrated that Shake-speare / Edward De Vere had intimate knowledge of Great Pyramid encoded secrets, Green proposes similar for Da Vinci's Vitruvian Man. It is in the early second minute that the connection with Osiris is briefly touched on that I mentioned in the previous post. Of course, LdV is alleged by some to have been a master of the Priory of Sion, a supposed once brotherhood to the Templars.

 
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Seeker

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Richard Stanley said:
Alan Green has demonstrated that Shake-speare / Edward De Vere had intimate knowledge of Great Pyramid encoded secrets
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Nicholas de Vere believed that the de Veres were descended from the Egyptian Pharaohs through a Princess Melusine, and H. Spencer Lewis, Imperator of the "AMORC" Rosicrucians, believed that these Egyptian Pharaohs and High Priests organized the first mystery schools that became the Rosicrucian Order. Edward de Vere may have had some help in decoding Great Pyramid secrets from his alleged half-brother, and fellow Shakespearean author, Francis Bacon, whom Lewis said was also the Imperator of the Rosicrucian Order of his day. Bacon is also believed to be the secret founder of both the Rosicrucians and Freemasons in this time period, besides editing the King James Bible and authoring "The New Atlantis".
 
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Seeker

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Charles Watkins said:
It's looking like Oxford, Bacon, Marlowe, and others were involved in some esoteric conspiracy involving the New World.
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Just trying to put bits and pieces of information together to make a coherent (?) story out of this. Francis Bacon was the author of "The New Atlantis", and involved with the Virginia Company. A brother-in-law of his alleged half-brother and Shakespearean writing partner Edward de Vere, Sir Eustache Hart, was also involved with the Virginia Company. If Eustache and Mary (de Vere) Hart did indeed have a secret son named John Hart (while Mary was still married to her first husband) who was involved in Irish piracy (Eustace's half-brother Henry was an English officer in Ireland who settled there, and also had a son named John, by coincidence [?]), perhaps he was involved in smuggling treasure, and later his family, to America. His presumed descendant John Hart was a Signer of the Declaration of Independence, camped and fed General George Washington with his army before the Battle of Monmouth, New Jersey, in 1778, and Washington attended the wedding of one of his sons, who were involved with the Revolutionary Army. In addition, through the Signer's wife, this family is related to over 100 historical British and American figures from her alone. A son-in-law was promoted to Major by Washington at Valley Forge, and became a member of the elite Society of the Cincinnati after the war, with Washington as President (yes, of that too). In turn, his son helped found a Freemason lodge in his hometown, and several of Signer John Hart's descendants became multimillionaires in the 19th century, with a couple as Consuls and Ministers to Chile and Peru, and one was associated with John D. Rockefeller and the Standard Oil Company, as a Vice-President, major stockholder in his own oil producing area, and member of the Executive Board of Directors. A son-in-law of this last person was a Commander of the 34th Infantry Division, and one of his granddaughters married a Minister, and then an Ambassador, to Ireland, under President Truman, and who had been a Delegate from the District of Columbia to the 1932 Democratic National Convention, that nominated FDR for his first term. Bringing this up to the present time, Bill Gates was a 7th cousin, 3 times removed to Nelson, David, and the other Rockefeller siblings, and he also was a 7th cousin, once removed, to a man who married into this Hart descended family, who himself descended from Governor Bradford of the "Mayflower", and friends of Governor Winthrop who were "Arabella" passengers, quite possibly was related to an Oxford playwright who was friends with "Shakespeare", and left many descendants and relatives after him now. To the best of my knowledge so far, this is the closest possibility of a family closely related to Edward de Vere actually settling in the future "New Atlantis" of America, right after the time of "Shakespeare", during the "Great Migration" of that period. They are also distant cousins of Prince Harry, who has de Vere ancestry through both parents, and apparently intends to settle somewhere on the North American continent with his family, although in the case of many ancestors of Harry, in England they long did tarry!
 
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Seeker

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Richard Stanley said:
A modified painting, once held by a Stanley descendant of De Vere, was used to depict 'Shakspeare' as part of the coverup. For context, the Stanleys and the De Veres placed Henry VI Tudor on the throne.

De Vere's father had been poisoned (as had Ferdinando Stanley
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I believe you mean Henry VII Tudor, but nevertheless, for someone who claims no discernible link back to these English Stanleys, you display a remarkable knowledge of them, methinks you do protest too much! ;) As far as a Stanley (descended from the above referred to Stanleys, who with de Veres helped placed Henry Tudor, the stepson of Thomas Stanley, on the throne) marrying Edward de Vere's daughter Elizabeth, this may have helped boost the de Vere's claim of being the true Kings of England (as Nicholas de Vere calls them), since the Stanley's had a claim also, so were there two would be royal dynasties uniting with this marriage? Also, unless I missed it here, what influence may Edward de Vere's "official" uncle, Arthur Golding, have had upon his nephew's writings and beliefs? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arthur_Golding#Legacy
 
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Richard Stanley

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Yes, I meant Henry VII.

I have seen it that Ferdinando Stanley, a later Earl of Derby, was once (superficially at least) next in line to the throne of Elizabeth's. Supposedly ... he was encouraged to seize the throne from Elizabeth by the Jesuits, and after refusing, he died (of suspected poisoning) after having a conversation with 'witches'. I believe it was he who was the first theatrical employer of "William Shakspeare" ... that is, if you can believe that any of the 'theatrical' legend about the Man from Stratford is real. FS is also considered by some to have been one of the team of writers, as well as another favorite of the Queen.

NdV asserted that the DeVere's and Stanley's and Russell's were 1,2, and 3, while I have seen separately from a 19th century book on Norman family names that the Stanley's and Russell's were 1 and 2. So maybe there is something to your speculation. The Stanley lords seem to have stayed closer to the Crown than the De Vere's and even became Prime Ministers. I seem to have played no role but to unwittingly babysit the seat of Harry's new palatinate, from one Lancaster to another.

I believe that in one or two of the Waugh videos that the literary influence of Golding upon young EdV was considerable is discussed.
 
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Seeker

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Richard Stanley said:
NdV asserted that the DeVere's and Stanley's and Russell's were 1,2, and 3
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What NdV did was to make the unorthodox claim that Eustace I, Count of Boulogne, and Companion of William the Conqueror, was actually a de Vere, and the true King of England, because his first wife was Goda, sister of Edward the Confessor.
However, if Edward de Vere was indeed the secret son of Thomas Seymour and Queen Elizabeth, Charles N. Pope has Thomas Seymour (1508-1549) as the alternate identity of Edward Stanley (1509-1572), 3rd Earl of Derby, and Francis Bacon (1561-1626) as William Stanley (1561-1642), 6th Earl of Derby!
As you stated, "I seem to have played no role but to UNWITTINGLY BABYSIT the seat of Harry's new palatinate, from one Lancaster to another." Of course, you, another Stanley, must be the true father of Prince Harry! :eek: Talk about "controlled opposition"!o_O
Seriously, some presumed secret descendants of the sister of Edward de Vere moved to California after the Gold Rush, and the last one that I could trace lived at one time in Santa Barbara, and passed away in 2015, being buried in Santa Barbara Cemetery. If my geography is correct, Santa Barbara is east of Montecito, where Prince Harry and his family now live.
 
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Seeker

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There is also a legend of the little known Eyre family, that their ancestor "Truelove", whom William the Conqueror supposedly named "Eyre", because he saved his life and gave him "air" at the Battle of Hastings, was an exiled grandson of Edmund Ironside and the second cousin of William, because an alternate form of the "Eyre" surname is "Heyr" (heir). This would make him a grandnephew of Edward the Confessor by blood, and a grandnephew by marriage of Eustace II (not Eustace I as in the previous post, typo) "de Vere", Count of Boulogne. Eustace II "de Vere" is proven to have fought at Hastings, and has been suggested as the patron of the Bayeux Tapestry.
 
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Seeker

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On the other hand, if you mean Eustace II becoming the true King of England, look near the bottom of this NdV pedigree chart: http://www.dagobertsrevenge.com/devere/Genealogies/DragonDescentFiles/DragonDescentOne.JPG. The male line of Eustace II became extinct, because his oldest son Eustace III, and also the younger brothers, had no male heirs, and so the male line of Eustace III's 3rd cousin Alberic de Vere II become the de jure Princes and Kings of England, which descends to Edward de Vere : http://www.dagobertsrevenge.com/devere/Genealogies/DragonDescentFiles/DragonDescentTwo.JPG . Nicholas de Vere seemed to think that he was the "Head of the Royal House of Vere in England", but his supposed male line was broken by a female ancestress, Margaret Weir, in the 18th century. As his chart also shows, the officially accepted English de Vere succession came when Diana de Vere, heiress of Aubrey de Vere, 20th Earl of Oxford, married Charles Beauclerk, created Duke of St. Albans by his father, King Charles II, and started a new line that exists to this day. Charles Beauclerk, the heir to this Dukedom, wrote "Shakespeare's Lost Kingdom", about Edward de Vere and the Prince Tudor Theory, where Edward is actually the son of Queen Elizabeth I.
 
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Seeker

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Richard Stanley said:
Yes, that. Interesting that this is the lone post on that blog ... from 1996.
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Exactly, and the "History Lovers" blogger said that he/she had posted about the Habsburgs the preceding Nov./Dec., and was going to post Part 2 about the Eyres the next month, in Feb. 1996, after having posted Part 1 in Jan. Incidentally, as you may have guessed, I am the "Eyrie" posting there on Sept. 3, trying to find out what is going on here after almost a quarter of a century. Was I really the only one to comment in all of that time, and I only just found out about this site and the American Eyre "Dynasty" by accident!
These postings about a so-called "Eyre Dynasty" had piqued my curiosity, as I know that I descend from a 16th century Eyre of North Lees, Derbyshire ("Jane Eyre" connection), but I had never heard of that American Eyre Dynasty, and just found out that a distant cousin married a descendant of founder George Eyre, who came to America in 1727, as was stated in the information. At least some of this stuff is "true", as "Truelove" is supposed to be a Saxon name, some of the Eyres were Crusaders with King Richard the Lionheart and Royal Foresters by 1250, at Agincourt in 1415 with King Henry V, and in England they did make a fortune from lead mining and smelting, besides having a talent for marrying rich heiresses and gaining estates and fortunes that way, even changing their surname to do so! A branch of them did invade Ireland under Cromwell and build Eyrecourt Castle, and some more closely related to "my" branch in England became the Earls of Newburgh. I wonder if "Truelove" could be a veiled reference to a de Vere (truth) relationship in the pre-Conquest days, as "Truelove" was supposed to be the grandnephew of Eustace II "de Vere"? If the House of Wessex was truly of British descent instead of Anglo-Saxon, and if Nicholas de Vere was correct that the male line ancestor of the de Veres was the 5th century British King Vortigern, whom he calls "Vere Tigherna", then both Eyres and de Veres could have Vortigern as a common ancestor.
Going by what you found in proximity to the throne of England, because of my de Vere relationship I guess I am (1), you are (2) Stanley, and of course Jerry is (3) Russell. Looks like we are a Triumvirate after all! o_O
 
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Seeker

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Seeker said:
if Edward de Vere was indeed the secret son of Thomas Seymour and Queen Elizabeth, Charles N. Pope has Thomas Seymour (1508-1549) as the alternate identity of Edward Stanley (1509-1572), 3rd Earl of Derby
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If Edward de Vere was indeed the secret son of Thomas Seymour and Queen Elizabeth I, and then committed incest with his mother and had a son by her, there were other irregularities in this family also. Thomas Seymour supposedly had gotten Elizabeth pregnant with Edward while married to her stepmother, Catherine Parr, which for all intents and purposes made him the stepfather of Elizabeth. Catherine Parr had also been the wife of his former brother-in-law, King Henry VIII, and married Thomas in secret only several months after the demise of Henry, which was considered improper by many. His father John Seymour was widely thought to have actually been the father of his daughter-in-law Catherine Filliol's two sons, who was the first wife of his son Edward, the older brother of Thomas Seymour. To bring the Eyres into this, the keeper of Thomas Seymour, after he had been imprisoned and condemned, was a Christopher Eyre. If there was a "switch" for Thomas Seymour to become Edward Stanley at this time, Christopher Eyre would have been the person to facilitate it. Edward Stanley's grandson, William Stanley, 6th Earl of Derby (Francis Bacon, according to Charles N. Pope), marries Elizabeth, daughter of Edward de Vere, and in 2014 a Hermione Eyre publishes her work of historical fiction, "Viper Wine", about Venetia Stanley, the great-granddaughter of Edward Stanley (Thomas Seymour [?], "kept" by Christopher Eyre).
 
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R

Richard Stanley

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Seeker said:
Going by what you found in proximity to the throne of England, because of my de Vere relationship I guess I am (1), you are (2) Stanley, and of course Jerry is (3) Russell. Looks like we are a Triumvirate after all!
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Dogod help us, seriously.

In any case, when I said "proximity" I mainly meant physical proximity in such as 'offices', as actual succession issues seem too byzantine to assess from this 'distance', especially with all these changelings running around.
Seeker said:
These postings about a so-called "Eyre Dynasty" had piqued my curiosity, as I know that I descend from a 16th century Eyre of North Lees, Derbyshire ("Jane Eyre" connection), but I had never heard of that American Eyre Dynasty, and just found out that a distant cousin married a descendant of founder George Eyre, who came to America in 1727, as was stated in the information. At least some of this stuff is "true", as "Truelove" is supposed to be a Saxon name
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I was actually going to comment on Jane Eyre and ponder if the choice of names for that character was significant. She did seem to have a quest for her 'true love'.
 
S

Seeker

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Richard Stanley said:
In any case, when I said "proximity" I mainly meant physical proximity in such as 'offices'
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The de Veres held the hereditary Great Officer of State position of "Lord Great Chamberlain" to the Sovereign, until the oldest son of Edward de Vere's sister Mary (by her first husband) inherited it. Her "secret" undocumented son by her second husband was supposed to be the ancestor of the American branch of the family, which was involved in the founding of the "New Atlantis" (United States) through the "Great Migration", Revolutionary War, including signing the Declaration of Independence, afterwards becoming members of the elite Society of the Cincinnati and co-founding a Freemason lodge, joining the Westward Expansion after the Gold Rush and becoming multimillionaires, associating with John D. Rockefeller and Standard Oil, "Manifest Destiny", etc.
 
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Seeker

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Seeker said:
Francis Bacon was the author of "The New Atlantis", and involved with the Virginia Company. A brother-in-law of his alleged half-brother and Shakespearean writing partner Edward de Vere, Sir Eustache Hart, was also involved with the Virginia Company. If Eustache and Mary (de Vere) Hart did indeed have a secret son named John Hart (while Mary was still married to her first husband) who was involved in Irish piracy (Eustace's half-brother Henry was an English officer in Ireland who settled there, and also had a son named John, by coincidence [?]), perhaps he was involved in smuggling treasure, and later his family, to America.
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The father of Virginia/New England explorer Captain John Smith was a tenant of Mary de Vere's first husband, Peregrine Bertie, and John Smith was friends with the Bertie children, even dedicating his "True Travels" (1630) to the son Robert Bertie, "Great Chamberlaine of England", among others. The younger Peregrine Bertie, son of Peregrine and Mary (de Vere) Bertie and brother of Robert Bertie, was also a member of the Virginia Company. The Bertie brothers would have been stepsons to Virginia Company member Sir Eustace Hart, second husband of Mary de Vere, and half-brothers to their officially unrecorded son John Hart, presumed to be the founder of the Vere/Hart American family. The descendants of Mary de Vere were eventually the closest by blood to Edward de Vere, 17th Earl of Oxford, Lord Great Chamberlain, and her oldest son Robert Bertie, besides inheriting the office of Lord Great Chamberlain, also put in a claim for the Earldom of Oxford. Except for public family trees, the documentation and very existence of John Hart appeared to have been "scrubbed" (as Miles Mathis might put it), so that no one could make an American connection from Declaration of Independence Signer John Hart back to Edward de Vere and Francis Bacon.
 
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Seeker

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I am just starting to "dig" into this with Charles N. Pope, and there is a lot more to this, but he is leaning towards Mary de Vere being Catalina Micaela (Catherine-Michelle) of Spain, wife of Charles Emmanuel I, Duke of Savoy, ancestors of the ruling family of Italy until after WW2. My observation: both of these women were supposed to be arrogant! Incidentally, Charles Emmanuel I is also supposed to be Francis Bacon, and it would be indeed fitting if his wife's descendants settled in and helped bring about the "New Atlantis".
 
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Richard Stanley

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Starting yesterday and as I was listening to Bardcast #2 today, I started to ponder whether the Biblical Psalms have the same type of technological encoding as Alan Green has discovered for the Sonnets. In doing a search, it is clear that others have been looking into various relationships, mostly religious it seems, between the two bodies of work, see:


This possibility seems all the more compelling considering the various claims of descent from the Biblical 'players' as claimed by the late Nicholas De Vere, and now all this pyramid biz supporting the various claims of the Egyptian lineage ... through the same Biblical players.

I'm thinking that a new thread needs to be dedicated to Green's work, leaving this thread as an exploration of authorship, and I guess various De Vere relations and vectors. Probably Jerry will need to move some posts around.

[There is no video link in the Bardcast link above, similar to what happened for Bardcast #1 now fixed.]
 
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