The Case for De Vere

Seeker

Well-Known Member
Thank You, Chuck, I am trying to connect and establish some coherence with several unsourced stories that I have read about Mary de Vere. I had heard about the Mary Seymour story, and the Willoughby connection, which indeed could eventually place her with her first husband. There is also another story connecting her to second husband Hart, which needs further investigating, as the timing and location appears off. According to this story "Mary was removed to Wexford, Ireland, and raised under the care of a Protestant family there, the Harts, who had been engaged in piracy off the Irish coast under the protection of a profit sharing arrangement with Thomas Seymour.[citation needed] A lozenge-shaped ring inscribed "What I have I hold" was reputed to have been an early gift to Thomas by his brother Edward, and was passed down through generations of the Seymour-Harts until at least 1927.[citation needed] " Yet another story is that Mary and Eustace Hart are supposed to have had a son, John Hart, but critics point to the 1634 will of Eustace, which mentions no children, though there is listed a nephew John Hart, son of his younger half-brother Henry Hart, who was an English officer stationed in Ireland, and later retired to the north of that country. The presumed son of Mary and Eustace, John Hart, was the progenitor of an American branch of this family (one of his direct descendants signed the Declaration of Independence, another was an associate of John D. Rockefeller and the Standard Oil Company). IF Mary and Edward de Vere were actually the secret children of Thomas Seymour (and John Hart was a secret son of Mary and Eustace), they would still have de Vere ancestry through the Seymours. Obviously a lot more work needs to be done to piece together these separate strands of this family story, if that is possible.
 
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Seeker

Well-Known Member
Mary Vere could be one and the same as "Mary Seymour, daughter of Queen Catherine Parr and Lord Admiral Thomas Seymour. Mary disappears from history about a year after her birth (c. august 1549), having spent her infancy in the household of Catherine Willoughby, Dutchess of Suffolk. The Duchess kept what appears to have been an unofficial royal orphanage....and it may be that Edward de Vere was originally placed there too....So it could be that she turned up in the Oxford household as Edward's sister, Mary Vere, who would later marry Catherine Willoughby's son, Peregrine Bertie. Mary Vere is said to have been born in 1554, but there is no recorded birth or baptism (if she was Mary Seymour, she would have been Edward's half-sister.)."
Yes, there is no official record of Mary de Vere, until her 1562 mention in the will of her "official" father, John de Vere. In the 1550's, after the time of Mary Seymour living with Catherine Willoughby (mother of her first husband), and before that first 1562 listing of Mary de Vere in the will of her father, there is no record of either Mary Seymour or Mary de Vere.
"Mary was removed to Wexford, Ireland, and raised under the care of a Protestant family there, the Harts, who had been engaged in piracy off the Irish coast under the protection of a profit sharing arrangement with Thomas Seymour."
This is only my personal conjecture, but IF Mary Seymour is indeed the same person as Mary de Vere, the 1550's could be the time that she lived with possible relatives of her future second husband, Sir Eustace Hart. Could her brother (or half-brother?) Edward de Vere (Shakespeare?) have fitted her into his play "The Tempest", as Mary would have been "stranded" near the coast of the "island" Ireland, as the heroine Miranda was stranded on an island in "Shakespeare's" tale. Miranda is on that island, away from the world, for twelve years, exactly the same time that Mary Seymour is last heard of (1550), until the first mentioning of Mary de Vere (1562). Mary's guardians, the Harts, in place of Miranda's father Prospero, were "prospering" from piracy (as apparently her father Thomas Seymour had been), and were supposed to be descended from the O'Hart Princes of Tara (deposed after the 12th century Norman invasion), the sacred magical inauguration site of Ireland's High Kings by the Druids, and the character Prospero was a sorcerer and the rightful Duke of Milan. Mary Seymour's real father, Thomas Seymour, was in opposition to his brother, Lord Protector Edward Seymour, as Prospero was held in opposition by his brother, although Prospero escaped actual execution, as Thomas did not. To me there seem to be some intriguing parallels here, perhaps used by Edward de Vere, if he wrote as Shakespeare.
 
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Chuck

New Member
Jerry in his introduction to SSM, cites a critic who worries about 'parallelomania.' I don't know enough to judge the plausibility of these new intriguing parallels. But I wouldn't want to lose sight of the parallels outlined by Joseph Atwill: in the case of the Tempest to the shipwrecks of Paul and Josephus and to the Flavian Trinity. SSM needs more than one page discussing Edward de Vere, but putting him closer to the center doesn't have to detract from the themes Atwill points out. It is great how many layered are the works and the theories. Whether Shakespeare or Josephus, you can't separate the author from their writings.
 

Seeker

Well-Known Member
SSM needs more than one page discussing Edward de Vere, but putting him closer to the center doesn't have to detract from the themes Atwill points out. It is great how many layered are the works and the theories. Whether Shakespeare or Josephus, you can't separate the author from their writings.
Chuck, I agree with you 100%. As I had stated, putting Edward de Vere "closer to the center" was only my personal conjecture, with no reflection or exclusion of the theories of Atwill, nor anyone else intended. I personally believe that there was an Imperial "team" working with both Josephus and "Shakespeare", which could produce more than one point of view amongst its members, for the shepherds, sheepdogs, and sheep, i.e., the different strata of society, not to mention the factions within them. In a way, all of us contributing to "Postflaviana" are the latest form of a "team", and I try to learn something from all of you.
 

Richard Stanley

Well-Known Member
Below Sepher discusses the KJV in relation to the Shakespearean corpus. While he discusses Bacon's relationship to both, I have posted this video below, because while Bacon is known to have been heavily involved with the KJV project, and as author of New Atlantis and suspected poobah of the Rosicrucians, it's also believed that his writing style did not lend itself to the 'Elizabethan' poetry style that De Vere was known better for.

As such, did De Vere go to the Hidden Resort to finish these works in peace from his social scandals? As noted before, there are some oddities regarding his alleged death.

 

Seeker

Well-Known Member
As such, did De Vere go to the Hidden Resort to finish these works in peace from his social scandals? As noted before, there are some oddities regarding his alleged death.
Charles N. Pope, in his "How to Read Shakespeare Like a Royal", gives Edward de Vere, among other identities, that of Holy Roman Emperor Rudolf II. Edward and Rudolf were both associated with the "magician" John Dee, with Rudolf on a lifelong quest to find the Philosopher's Stone. As I mentioned before, Edward de Vere is supposed to have passed away on June 24, 1604 (his sister Mary, in a different year, also passed away about that date), which is "Midsummer" (Feast of St. John the Baptist), when King Oberon and the fairies come out in "Shakespeare's" (de Vere's?) "A Midsummer Night's Dream". Nicholas de Vere states that "Oberon" was actually a real de Vere, which would make him Edward and Mary's ancestor. Were there some magical "transformations" and "acting" taking place with the de Vere siblings at that time?
 

Richard Stanley

Well-Known Member
Good question. In any case, the association with the Holy Roman Empire is also interesting with the divorce business with Henry VIII and Catherine, sister of the HRE. All of which I consider to be a rediculous cover story for the Anglican schism.
 

Charles Watkins

Active Member
Just finished SHAKESPEARE'S LOST KINGDOM by Charles Beauclerk and I must say I find the premise enthralling. His interpretation of the plays and Elizabethan politics in light of Oxford's hidden relationship with the Queen was compelling.

Claude, I appreciate your lengthy comment on my previous post, but I'd like to hear more about the significance of Claudius. Are you saying Oxford meant to draw a parallel between Claudius' situation and his own?

It's looking like Oxford, Bacon, Marlowe, and others were involved in some esoteric conspiracy involving the New World. Oxford sponsored the Martin Frobisher expedition to the 'northwest passage' that supposedly returned with a load of 'fools gold'. Found this on the House of Vere site: http://www.houseofvere.com/Crown_Gold_Heist.php
 

Chuck

New Member
Just finished SHAKESPEARE'S LOST KINGDOM by Charles Beauclerk and I must say I find the premise enthralling. His interpretation of the plays and Elizabethan politics in light of Oxford's hidden relationship with the Queen was compelling.

Claude, I appreciate your lengthy comment on my previous post, but I'd like to hear more about the significance of Claudius. Are you saying Oxford meant to draw a parallel between Claudius' situation and his own?

It's looking like Oxford, Bacon, Marlowe, and others were involved in some esoteric conspiracy involving the New World. Oxford sponsored the Martin Frobisher expedition to the 'northwest passage' that supposedly returned with a load of 'fools gold'. Found this on the House of Vere site: http://www.houseofvere.com/Crown_Gold_Heist.php
Glad you found Beauclerk's premise enthralling. Let us hope for more cross pollination of his ideas with Atwill's on Bassano.
 

Seeker

Well-Known Member
Charles N. Pope just sent this message to me:



I noticed that there is a strong interest in the Shakespeare Authorship Debate at Post-Flaviana.

The most exciting development in Shakespeare studies (since my book, haha) has to be Alan Green's foray into the Sonnets. I've exchanged some emails with Alan, but unfortunately he is about as bull-headed as Joe Atwill (lol). He believes that his insights are conclusive regarding Oxford's authorship of the entire Shakespeare corpus. I tried to explain that the Shakespeare brand was merely an umbrella covering (kind of like the term "Parkinson's Disease"), and used as a clearinghouse for the "petite academy" of Elizabethan authors, which included a number of high profile ladies ... and, yes, even one that masqueraded as a poor dark-skinned Italian Jewess emigre (haha). It is completely logical that Oxford was permitted to publish Sonnets under the rubric of Shakespeare, and even though almost all of the Shakespeare plays actually shame Oxford for his exceptionally bad (unprofessional) royal behavior!

Alan Green was Davey Jones' music manager back in the days of The Monkeys. And his antics are every bit as outrageous today!! It's exceptionally creative and refreshingly anti-academic (lol).

-Charles


BARDCAST IS GOING LIVE!
Saturday, August 22, 2020 @ 6 pm PST
Join Alan Green on Facebook LIVE every other Sunday at 2 pm PST. His new Bardcast™ show features deep dives into stunning discoveries related to the Shakespeare Mystery and their implications for science, art and world events today.
Topics will include:​
Sacred Geometry
Ancient wisdom and the Great Pyramid
Historical cover-ups
Cryptography and Number Theory
Spiritual Alchemy, meditation and consciousness
True Pythagorean tuning and the ‘432’ movement
Scientific and educational breakthroughs
Paradigm shifts in general
What’s next in a post-Covid world?
NOTE… the regular time for each Bardcast™ will normally be every other Sunday at 2pm PST. For this Premiere Only the time will be Saturday August 22 at 6pm, PST.
IN THIS FIRST EPISODE:
Alan is celebrating so many things this August 22nd. Besides his auspicious birthday (he has promised to reveal the actual ‘number’ on the day!) there’s the whole new website — an Altar-load of brilliant new discoveries — the upcoming beta launch of ‘THE GAME’ app — and a spot prize thrown in for one lucky viewer/listener! This is sure to be an enlightening discussion with both Michaels: Delahoyde and Dunn.
Not only are they two of the world’s leading scholars on the Shakespeare mystery but they’ve been Alan’s main influences, friends and champions since the very beginning of his 16-year journey. (Wait till you see what’s coming in year 17!)
Tune in and be amazed as they REMOVE THE MASK from the greatest literary cover-up of all time.​
The greatest story Shakespeare ever wroteis yet to be told
 

Seeker

Well-Known Member
Don't Miss Bardcast™ #2
It's the start of a revolve-olution!
Sunday, September 6, 2020 @ 1 pm PST
The first Bardcast™ got rave reviews from the audience for its entertaining, knowledgeable guests and in depth discussion exposing the truth behind the Shakespeare authorship mystery. If you missed it you can catch it here: https://tobeornottobe.org/bardcast/
The 2nd Bardcast™ will feature Jamie Janover, a renowned fellow musician and researcher of ancient civilizations who has been promoting breakthroughs at the intersection of science and spirituality for decades. Jamie works tirelessly to bring Nassim Haramein’s Unified Field Theory to the world. As Alan himself remarked after seeing Jamie’s presentation in Cairo earlier this year:
“Jamie can distill the complicated math of the Einstein/Haramein concepts down to 10 minutes so a kid can understand it — or he can wax lyrical for 4 hours and the crowd will still be yelling for more like they’d just witnessed a Bruce Springsteen concert! He’s one of the most unsung, humble geniuses of our time and I’m truly honored to have him as a guest on Bardcast™.”
He and Alan will discuss their common interests in Sacred Geometry, the Great Pyramid, and other exciting topics that merge with the utterly unsuspected new view of Shakespeare that Alan is revealing to the world.
Be sure to catch the start of each Bardcast™ because Alan will drop a clue into one of his Shakespeare discovery announcements that could win you a signed copy of his non-Award-winning (yet!) book “Dee-Coding Shakespeare” when he asks a question later in the show.
“The Game’s Afoot!”​
 

Richard Stanley

Well-Known Member
The following is a pretty amazing presentation. We learn that De Vere predicted his fake death on 6/24 1604, and the significance of '624'. It having to do with the passing from Gemini to Cancer on the Summer Solstice. Interestingly, and so related to the (annual - not the zodiacal age) death of Castor and Pollux as I have recently discovered regarding the depictions of the triple cross (Triple Tau) Cruci-fiction on the From Chrest to Christ thread.

 

Seeker

Well-Known Member
De Vere predicted his fake death on 6/24 1604, and the significance of '624'. It having to do with the passing from Gemini to Cancer on the Summer Solstice. Interestingly, and so related to the (annual - not the zodiacal age) death of Castor and Pollux as I have recently discovered regarding the depictions of the triple cross (Triple Tau) Cruci-fiction on the From Chrest to Christ thread.
On Alan Green's site, besides stating that Edward de Vere's surname means "Truth" in Latin, he says that in Hebrew it means "Holy of Holies", and that the assumed death date of de Vere, 6/24, when read backwards, is 4/26, the baptismal date of Shakespeare.
 

Richard Stanley

Well-Known Member
OK, I've made it through the Bardcast and it's pretty interesting. My ears really perked up when Dunn stated that he had been involved with unravelling the Golden Lilly WWII era business (aka Black Eagle Gold Trust). Only a few months ago I had thought about making a thread on this huge financial crime underlying WWII and lasting till today.

Also pretty staggering is that the mysterious 'MOAI' of Shake-speare's and of later Freemasonry has its roots, or common roots, in yoga. Others and myself have pondered about the possible ultimate Indic origins of the Abrahamic religions. The manner in which a Freemason gains access to the individual letters over time and upon apparent merit corresponds with a hierarchical mystery school with ascending adepts.

Here are some more videos of Green's that Jerry will have to explain for us, in Bayesian terms of course, as to how this is all possible.

 
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Jerry Russell

Administrator
Staff member
I haven't watched Bardcast or CPAK yet, but I did watch "All The Bases" and "The Shakespeare Equation Trailer". According to "All The Bases", the counts of stanzas, lines and words in the Sonnets encode triangular numbers (typically, minus one) which are also found in the dimensions of the Great Pyramid. According to the "Trailer", the proportions of that same Great Pyramid encode various mathematical constants; the latitude of the Pyramid encodes the speed of light; and the speed of light, distance from earth to moon, and distance from earth to sun, may be recovered from word counts in the Sonnets by application of the "Shakespeare Equation".

I tried to check Alan Green's work by looking at Google Earth to measure the latitude of the Great Pyramid at Giza. My measurement said 29.979196, not 29.979246 as claimed by Green. I can't explain the difference between my observation and Green's. But aside from that, it's still pretty impressive that the pyramid latitude matches the speed of light to six decimal places. For the rest, I'm assuming that Green's math checks out, and it's also very impressive that the solar system's basic dimensions are encoded in the sonnets.

The meter is defined as the distance light travels in a second, and the second is defined in terms of the length of a day, divided into 24 hours of sixty minutes and sixty seconds each. Units of latitude are similarly defined in terms of division into 360 degrees. So all of these are somewhat natural rather than purely arbitrary constants, at least to the extent that constants like 24 and 60 are natural number bases.

Even considering the effects of confirmation bias, and however hard Alan Green searched to find these results, this evidence is hard to discount or explain away as coincidence. The civilization that built the pyramids, also knew about the speed of light? And, the information was conveyed to Shakespeare somehow? The evidence seems to be piling up.

And I'll be a monkey's uncle! I wonder what "The Ethical Skeptic" would say about this.
 
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