Richard Stanley
Well-Known Member
I was wondering about this. thx
The Case for De Vere
- Thread starter Richard Stanley
- Start date
I am digging into the background of Sir David Cecil, the grandfather of William Cecil, and am finding that he actually started out in life as the second son of a well-to-do Welsh yeoman, with David joining the eventually victorious army of Henry Tudor. After this his fortunes rose, becoming also a "Yeoman" of the Guard (a member of the bodyguard of the now King Henry VII), anglicizing his name to Cecil, and rising from yeoman status to the top level of gentry. His son Richard was a "Yeoman" of the Wardrobe, and in turn Richard's son William completed the family ascent, as a top government adviser to Queen Elizabeth I, who ennobled him with an English title. So William Cecil certainly could be considered among the nouveau riche, the new aristocracy (though never an actual "yeoman" himself), that arose after the destruction of the old, in the aftermath of the Wars of the Roses, as compared to his royal ward and son-in-law, Edward de Vere. Through the sister of his second wife, William Cecil was also the "uncle" of Sir Francis Bacon, besides having as an intelligence agent, for himself and Sir Francis Walsingham, a fellow Welshman, the occultist John Dee. Dee even calculated, on occult principles, the precise location of what he felt to be "God's longitude" or "prime meridian" (and he advocated that English colonies be planted there), 77 deg. west of Greenwich, the location of the future Washington D.C. Lots of intriguing connections here!
Last edited:
Richard Stanley
Well-Known Member
And, if this is so, why would such supposedly staunch Protestants have given this specific colony, Mary-land, over to the Catholics? Every colony had its own 'theocratic' sect.
Dee himself believed in the goal of a universal religion, with the schism healed between Roman Catholics and Protestants, plus the addition of the pure ancient Hermetic theology. Maryland was established as a colony afterwards from his time, during the succeeding Stuart dynasty under King Charles I, who proposed that it be named after his French Catholic wife, Henrietta Maria (was she a deliberate plant into this royal family?), with the Calvert family, descended from a country gentleman tenant of Lord Philip Wharton (named after his Catholic Habsburg godfather, Philip of Spain, who was married to Queen Mary I), granted the charter. A medal struck for Philip in 1583 bore the inscriptions for him as King of Spain AND the New World, adding "NON SUFFICIT ORBIS" ("the world is not enough", where have I heard that title before?), and some of his coinage bore the motto "DOMINVS MIHI ADIVTOR" ("the Lord is my helper", truth in plain sight?). Eventually, the Protestants took over the Maryland government and outlawed Catholicism, ostensibly at any rate, while the wealthy Maryland Carroll family (red headed male line royal Irish descent) went on to play a leading role in the American Revolution, despite being restricted as Roman Catholics, which Tupper Saussy expanded upon in his "Rulers of Evil". The leader of the American Revolution, George Washington (believed to be ultimately of red headed male line royal Irish descent), maintained cordial relations with Benedict Swingate Calvert, whose daughter had married his stepson (another plant?), even though Benedict was a Loyalist, and Washington was much criticized for accepting his hospitality by his political enemies.
Last edited:
Richard Stanley
Well-Known Member
The following is imperative to view. It has a slow start and a strong finish. The thesis supports the prior claim that the coverup was intentional, consistent with the cultural norms of the day and going back to antiquity.
Furthermore, and perhaps even more exciting is the discussion of the esoteric relevance of Pythagorean numbers and concepts, which are also to be found in the NT. Similarly demonstrated is a proof encryption utilizing the destructions of Troy and Jerusalem, which elsewhere I have equated with the transitional omegas and alphas of ages, including the transitions from saviors Castor and Pollux to Jesus.
We can also derive the desire of the Roman Church to keep the canon texts from the prying eyes of the vulgar hoi polloi, because they would read the texts 'fundamentally', and ignorantly of the hidden meanings. They were not allowed to read what was already hidden in the text.
Another gem is found in Ben Jonson's encomium, via his use of the word 'gentle'. This is the same argument that I have made regarding the Biblical use of the term Gentile. It means the elite nobility, the Elect, not the common man. This is also the subtext of the OT where the patriarchs are really such elite nobles, not such as nomadic shepherds. And thus, the dialectic of Jews versus Gentiles is a ruse upon the common man.
THIS is why there is an industry dedicated to protecting the fake identity of Shakespeare ... and Jesus .... the Nazarene.
Furthermore, and perhaps even more exciting is the discussion of the esoteric relevance of Pythagorean numbers and concepts, which are also to be found in the NT. Similarly demonstrated is a proof encryption utilizing the destructions of Troy and Jerusalem, which elsewhere I have equated with the transitional omegas and alphas of ages, including the transitions from saviors Castor and Pollux to Jesus.
We can also derive the desire of the Roman Church to keep the canon texts from the prying eyes of the vulgar hoi polloi, because they would read the texts 'fundamentally', and ignorantly of the hidden meanings. They were not allowed to read what was already hidden in the text.
Another gem is found in Ben Jonson's encomium, via his use of the word 'gentle'. This is the same argument that I have made regarding the Biblical use of the term Gentile. It means the elite nobility, the Elect, not the common man. This is also the subtext of the OT where the patriarchs are really such elite nobles, not such as nomadic shepherds. And thus, the dialectic of Jews versus Gentiles is a ruse upon the common man.
THIS is why there is an industry dedicated to protecting the fake identity of Shakespeare ... and Jesus .... the Nazarene.
OK, so Stritmatter has a code identifying de Vere as "Shakespeare", and Amundsen has a code identifying Bacon and Neville as "Shakespeare", both using Ben Jonson's Eulogy to the First Folio of Shakespeare's plays as "proof ", so who's right? Or were these "half-brothers" de Vere and Bacon part of a secret elite propaganda ministry , with Neville also included, as the stepnephew of Bacon. De Vere and Bacon, in turn, are both family connected to William Cecil, Baron Burghley, who is connected (and perhaps connects them) to the mathematician, cryptographer, and occultist John Dee, whose expertise in these matters would be valuable to them (he has been considered as the model for "Shakespeare's" Prospero), and they were all closely connected to Queen Elizabeth I, in one way or another. Let us not forget Emilia Bassano, who was the mistress of Queen Elizabeth's cousin and possible half-brother, Henry Carey, later the patron of Lord Chamberlain's Men, "Shakespeare's" playing company, and who eventually bore him a son, Henry. This projected Elizabethan writing team strongly reminds me of a projected Flavian writing team, 1500 years earlier, that they could be descended from.
Last edited:
Richard Stanley
Well-Known Member
I think that Bacon and Neville were being honored for whatever talents they contributed, and likely they were members of the new Rosicrucian endeavor along with De Vere. Yes, I still believe in the notion of a team of writers and Bassano seems a good candidate from her skills. Bacon is usually dismissed as more of a prose writer on the other hand.
And yes, the parallels with the Chrestian/Christian project are incredible.
And yes, the parallels with the Chrestian/Christian project are incredible.
Especially if Bacon was actually the "Imperator" (Emperor) of the Rosicrucians and was responsible for editing the King James Bible also.
Richard Stanley
Well-Known Member
His association with the latter is well known, but what about the former?
Is it a funny coincidence that the De Vere's have the emblematic boar and Bacon is .. well ...? I wonder what the source of the Bacon name is?
Is it a funny coincidence that the De Vere's have the emblematic boar and Bacon is .. well ...? I wonder what the source of the Bacon name is?
Richard Stanley
Well-Known Member
"Like one of the most ancient honor'd Romans, From whence his noblest family was derived;"
Is this just fanciful conceit, or were the Normans really derived from the Sabine Romans, as I have long suspected (from besides the anagram).
From 38 minutes into the presentation below:
Is this just fanciful conceit, or were the Normans really derived from the Sabine Romans, as I have long suspected (from besides the anagram).
From 38 minutes into the presentation below:
I agree, and I thought the strongest & most interesting part of this lecture by Roger Stritmatter was the argument that Robert Greene's "Groatsworth" with its passage complaining about an "upstart Crow" was not referring to Shakespeare at all, but rather to Greene's nemesis Edward Alleyn. This leaves the Stratfordians with no clear references to Shakespeare's name until it started appearing on quartos in 1598.
Neither one of those codes strikes me as robust enough to put any weight on, although I agree that Stritmatter clearly demonstrated that mathematical codes and gematria were important to authors of the time. Stritmatter's argument for a relationship between de Vere and Shakespeare coded into Francis Meres' Pallidas Tamia seems more solid and uncontrived to me, but as usual I can't prove anything.
And if indeed there was a conspiracy to hide the Bard's true identity, then I would expect the conspirators to leave a trail of fake breadcrumbs. So I don't feel that these codes prove anything about the true authorship of the plays & poems.
Richard Stanley
Well-Known Member
Didn't that list of poets read almost like a dozen disciples?
Well, it would appear that Cecil's gardener thought that De Vere was akin to 'Christos' Jesus, via Apollo that is.
Does such an appearance of Cecil and De Vere on the same cover suggest they were have a tiff? Or something else?
Solar savior prodigies who become prodigal. Virgin queens who are not virgins. De Vere: "liberal as the Sun", from Revenge of Bussy d'Ambois.
We also find out (not on this video) that De Vere's death was unannounced and not celebrated. Was it another fake death as well?
Well, it would appear that Cecil's gardener thought that De Vere was akin to 'Christos' Jesus, via Apollo that is.
Does such an appearance of Cecil and De Vere on the same cover suggest they were have a tiff? Or something else?
Solar savior prodigies who become prodigal. Virgin queens who are not virgins. De Vere: "liberal as the Sun", from Revenge of Bussy d'Ambois.
We also find out (not on this video) that De Vere's death was unannounced and not celebrated. Was it another fake death as well?
A lot of names and connections mentioned here:
https://hiddenmessagesinshakespeare.blogspot.com/2015/02/chapter-3-francis-bacon-master-of.html
See https://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/dragons/imagenes_descent/descent_avallon.gif for the male line descent of the de Veres from Roman Emperor Claudius, whose family intermarried with the family of Julius Caesar, creating the imperial Roman Julio-Claudian dynasty. Going back in time from there:
"According to legend, the first of the Claudii was a Sabine, by the name of Attius Clausus, who came to Rome with his retainers in 504 BC, the sixth year of the Republic.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Claudia_(gens)#cite_note-9[6]"
Last edited:
Take a good look at the Bacon crest for Sir Francis: http://www.numericana.com/arms/bacon.htm, and note the mention of early proponent of the scientific method, Roger Bacon (1214-1292), describing both of them as Normans, like de Vere. Also regarding the motto and crest of Sir Francis, "Mediocria Firma means the middle way, the way of harmony peace and brotherhood. This was the Bacon family motto with the boar as the family emblem."
Richard Stanley
Well-Known Member
On the 17th of Shake-speare my true love said to me:
In some of these poems we can see Mr. 17 declared as divine and likened to Adonis.
Jesus, "I am the Truth". Ergo sum Ver-itas, De Vere?
In some of these poems we can see Mr. 17 declared as divine and likened to Adonis.
Jesus, "I am the Truth". Ergo sum Ver-itas, De Vere?
Last edited:
Charles Watkins
Active Member
I'm pretty much an ignoramus regarding Shakespeare, but I'm always intrigued by a possible conspiracy. There are some suggestions here as to who was involved, but I'd like to hear more about what they were up to. A lot of effort must have gone into a hoax of this magnitude, so what was the payoff?
Last edited:
Richard Stanley
Well-Known Member
Good question Charles.
There are a lot of interesting elements to this, including many that which don't seem to be realized or discussed by the alt researchers. These latter being the threads of connection that appear to connect the Normans back to both Rome and what I have speculated is the controlled opposition nature of the Edessa monarchy in provoking the Jewish War. And, it seems that the centerpiece, for me at least, is the parallel way that the grain merchant from Stratford was employed to take on the role of a national hero for Protestant England, using the similar names of William Shakspeare [sic] and William Shake-speare. The latter being one pen-name for Edward De Vere. Then a literal industry employed to deny all the evidence that the grain merchant didn't have the requisite extensive knowledge to compose the works.
I have long thought that the Reformation, writ large, was 'provoked', intended as yet another false dialectic, an extention of the original Western False Dialectic. This one meant to create a competitive race to colonize and exploit the New World, so-to-speak. There was already some good evidence for this, and the Shakespeare tableau seems to be providing more, via more strange bedfellows and circumstances. I like to invoke fake deaths today, and the Elizabethan/Tudor tableau seems to qualify, with such discussed in the Shakespeare canon and even speculation about Jerry's favorite, Marlowe.
The discussions in this recent videos reveals the wide depth of knowledge displayed by De Vere and associates about the roles of their ancient predecessors in forming the religion(s) of their day, and how the former fancied themselves playing the same role in their time. This with De Vere being accorded a divine status. One video mentioned the Shakespearean corpus as a secular bible for the new age, which accords well with the Homeric and Classical corpus.
That said, 'Shakespeare' does address the coming 'liberalization' of society, as it addresses the interior mental landscape of complex, conflicted motivations. For example, some works addressing matters in parallel with the actual manner in which legal changes were 'liberally' addressing 'motivations' and mental states in determining criminal liabilities.
There are a lot of interesting elements to this, including many that which don't seem to be realized or discussed by the alt researchers. These latter being the threads of connection that appear to connect the Normans back to both Rome and what I have speculated is the controlled opposition nature of the Edessa monarchy in provoking the Jewish War. And, it seems that the centerpiece, for me at least, is the parallel way that the grain merchant from Stratford was employed to take on the role of a national hero for Protestant England, using the similar names of William Shakspeare [sic] and William Shake-speare. The latter being one pen-name for Edward De Vere. Then a literal industry employed to deny all the evidence that the grain merchant didn't have the requisite extensive knowledge to compose the works.
I have long thought that the Reformation, writ large, was 'provoked', intended as yet another false dialectic, an extention of the original Western False Dialectic. This one meant to create a competitive race to colonize and exploit the New World, so-to-speak. There was already some good evidence for this, and the Shakespeare tableau seems to be providing more, via more strange bedfellows and circumstances. I like to invoke fake deaths today, and the Elizabethan/Tudor tableau seems to qualify, with such discussed in the Shakespeare canon and even speculation about Jerry's favorite, Marlowe.
The discussions in this recent videos reveals the wide depth of knowledge displayed by De Vere and associates about the roles of their ancient predecessors in forming the religion(s) of their day, and how the former fancied themselves playing the same role in their time. This with De Vere being accorded a divine status. One video mentioned the Shakespearean corpus as a secular bible for the new age, which accords well with the Homeric and Classical corpus.
That said, 'Shakespeare' does address the coming 'liberalization' of society, as it addresses the interior mental landscape of complex, conflicted motivations. For example, some works addressing matters in parallel with the actual manner in which legal changes were 'liberally' addressing 'motivations' and mental states in determining criminal liabilities.
Charles Watkins
Active Member
This has got to be part of the well-known Hermetic conspiracy revolving around the New Jerusalem. But how would the publication of this collection of plays advance such a cause? If it were to pass coded messages, then the conspiracy would have to be so loosely structured that the best way to communicate with members was through public events. And why baroque performances rather than ciphered publications? Would illiterate playgoers comprehend cloaked messages presented in realtime? For some coded message passing scheme, you would not need great works of literature.
Maybe it was propaganda intended to plant subversive ideas with the masses -- mainly that Royals are jerks. There's also a mistaken identity thread, often with veiled relationships. Is it setting up some kind of power play?
Another possibility is some kind of intellectual mousetrap, aimed at bringing others into the movement. (Incidentally, this is my current leaning on the whole Paul-is-Dead thing.) Those who are able to immerse themselves to the point of seeing the veiled messages will be drawn into the conspiracy.
Maybe it was propaganda intended to plant subversive ideas with the masses -- mainly that Royals are jerks. There's also a mistaken identity thread, often with veiled relationships. Is it setting up some kind of power play?
Another possibility is some kind of intellectual mousetrap, aimed at bringing others into the movement. (Incidentally, this is my current leaning on the whole Paul-is-Dead thing.) Those who are able to immerse themselves to the point of seeing the veiled messages will be drawn into the conspiracy.
Richard Stanley
Well-Known Member
I didn't get around to adding to my previous reply yesterday. I was going to say that it may be that the 'project' was indeed intended to project a new culture onto the masses, perhaps to go along with the relatively recent governmental changes instituted by Henry VIII's Thomas Cromwell, the arguable creator of the modern nation-state.
Few people like to have their 'from the cradle' culture fiddled with, whether peasants or kings. So, yes, an intellectual mousetrap might be a good metaphor.
The various videos now out there, some of which I've posted, make it clear that the intelligensia understood hidden identity encryptions, but possibly these were simply a side-show entertainment for the insiders?
Few people like to have their 'from the cradle' culture fiddled with, whether peasants or kings. So, yes, an intellectual mousetrap might be a good metaphor.
The various videos now out there, some of which I've posted, make it clear that the intelligensia understood hidden identity encryptions, but possibly these were simply a side-show entertainment for the insiders?