Sept. 8: Craig Rice, Anatoly Fomenko, Flat Earth. Sophistry!

[taylor]

Re: flat versus spherical earth.

The reason this is so important, is because it goes to the very crux of an individuals empirical based perceptions about the reality which they exist within.

If this most core of perceptions is corrupted, then pretty much everything else which builds on top of it will also be corrupted and distorted. This includes thought, emotion and behavior.

The perception of flat versus spherical is as important as up versus down and left versus right. I put it to you that the 'shape' of the reality we inhabit is also as obvious as left, right, up or down. No amount of words or sophistry can alter this.

A simple experiment to definitively prove that we are not on a spinning sphere traveling at 1000 miles per hour (i.e. approx 24,000 miles traveled per day at the equator) is the following.

Find a suitable spot on the ground outside.
Jump in the air (vertically up). Just a few inches will do.
When you land - measure the distance the ground has traveled under your feet (while you were in the air).

For reference, 1000 mph is equal to 447.04 meters per second.
So prorate the meters per second for the rough time you were in the air and see how it compares with how much the eath moved for you.

Of course - we know for a fact that the ground will not have (nor ever will) move more than zero distance underneath us (presuming no earthquake of course). This also accounts for why an Olympic event such as the long jump, doesn't always have to be in exactly the same direction (and/or various allowances made for different latitudes) relative to the earth's supposed rotation. If the earth were rotating in the way claimed then it would cause all manner of (unfair) variations to the competitor's jump distance.

In my estimation, the perception about the reality of this existence (as to it's 'shape') is so obvious that there can only be three possible reasons for claims that it is not a flat plane which we live upon.

• A person has not overcome beliefs programmed into them.
• A person is an agent pushing a particular agenda for their 'employer'.
• A person does not have the requisite intelligence to accurately process such basic observations and perceptions and thus arrive at a result which is accurate.

Btw, when traveling in aircraft which fly with no doors on (e.g. like skydiving planes), which quite often go up to 20,000 feet, there is no curvature to be seen on the horizon. Any curvature seen whe looking through a passenger aircraft window, is caused by the slight fish-eye lens type effect of the airplane window, which presumably have the production of such an effect built into their design.

 

[Richard Stanley]

Find a suitable spot on the ground outside.
Jump in the air (vertically up). Just a few inches will do.
When you land - measure the distance the ground has traveled under your feet (while you were in the air).

Dude, I know exactly what you mean.

I once tried this indoors and ended up in the emergency room with fractures of 93.7% of the bones in my body. And that's not even speaking of the damage to my house. I wish I had gotten instructions like this from you earlier.

Btw, when traveling in aircraft which fly with no doors on (e.g. like skydiving planes), which quite often go up to 20,000 feet, there is no curvature to be seen on the horizon. Any curvature seen whe looking through a passenger aircraft window, is caused by the slight fish-eye lens type effect of the airplane window, which presumably have the production of such an effect built into their design.

Dude, are you sure that airplanes exist? I have it on good authority that they are really like the fake submarine ride at Disneyland, only they put you in a pneumatic 'bunny tube' that goes underground from place to place. The images that show up in the fake 'plane' windows are really LCD displays running under Windows 3.1.

The only things that can fly are birds, bats, angels, and flying squirrels, period. Except that I'm not even sure about those. The Flying Nun was a Hollywood hoax.

 

[Richard Stanley]

Oh yes, or is it "oh no"? I forgot the 'allegedly' flying insects ... and ... the alleged flying photons (that can allegedly also fly underwater). Yet alleged flies cannot fly underwater and they have wings for Dogod's sake.

Speaking of light, this is really what causes the ocean tides on Earth, not the flat Moon, which is really an open-face pie made of 'one' fine wafer layered with marshmallow and dark chocolate syrup (which splooshes too and fro). Thus it is light, which is lighter than the heavy 'dark' (of night) which causes the ocean tides. Yes, the 'light' is out of sync with the tides, and it is the apparent synchronization of the Moon pie with the tides that fools us into thinking that the Moon causes the tides.

You can definitively prove this in your bathroom by doing the following:

Do this on a night with no Moon (pie)
Fill the bathtub halfway with di-hydrogen monoxide or whiskey. (If the former is used, add a pint of Tidy Bowl to enhance the tidal effect, and for aesthetics sake.)
Make sure zero 'light' (wink, wink) can enter through the bathroom window, nor sing that Joe Cocker song about said window
Aim a 1,000 candle power light source at one long side of the bathtub
Turn out the bathroom lights
Switch the light source on and off at the appropriate quasi-resonate frequency proportionate to the mass difference ratio of the bathtub liquid to the oceans' mass
Make sure you have a powerful vacuum cleaner sucking the air out of the bathroom - exhausting this into the rest of the house or outdoors.
Invite some friends over to have a riotous rubber duck party (optional)
Do not consume any actual terrestrial Moon Pies during this time, as this is a blasphemic mockery of the underlying gods and such

Note: The exact frequency of light versus dark cycling is critically dependent upon the dimensions of the bathtub, the amount of liquid added to it, and such as the rubber ducks optionally added to the mix. Therefore, likely some imperious trial and error will be required to divine the exact frequency needed.​

 

[Jerry Russell]

Taylor,

Summarily banned for spamming flat earth nonsense, combined with reasoning that is grievously offensive to your hosts. Which are we: pre-programmed, spooks, or stupid?

You may appeal by email.

 

[Mike Dexter]

From what I can see on the internetz, many of his (Jan Irvin's) critics on the hallucinogen issue seem to be quite articulate. Is this evidence that they are merely agents, or ...?

I have followed Jan for a long time; I'm pretty sure I've heard all of his podcasts. I have his book, co-authored with Andrew Rutajit, "Astrotheology & Shamanism: Christianity's Pagan Roots, A Revolutionary Reinterpretation of the Evidence". This book made sense to me, as far as it went. Jan has said later on that new information he had gleaned in his study of the Trivium has only confirmed what he and Mr. Rutajit wrote. Jan and Mr. Rutajit made a long video, basically storyboarding "Astrotheology and Shamanism". It was a simple, amateur job, but very informative.

I have also read Allegro's "The Sacred Mushroom and the Cross", but I frankly couldn't make sense of it without doing a lot of my own research.

(I have always wondered what happened between Jan and Andrew Rutajit. He is apparently still out there and is still working in the field of sun worship and psychedelic mushroom use. I don't think he's ever been interviewed on Gnostic Media. Maybe he was the first to go on Jan's discard pile?)

To summarize: Jan's critics on the Allegro topic all seemed to be people like Wasson (CIA and their associates), Terrence McKenna-ophiles, and academics who are wed to conventional viewpoints. I always sided with Jan, and later on, with Jan and Joe in their research into MKULTRA.

My question about this is: is there any way to reconcile the Postflaviana thesis with Allegro's thesis? Jan must have thought so, at least for a while, otherwise he wouldn't have had his relatively long standing relationship with Joe. I recall Joe saying at some point that he thought that the sun god thesis was a dead end. I would like to hear or read discussion on this.

On a different topic:

Upon waking I was thinking how ironic that Odening's "uncivilized" men are more manly than civilized "men", who have been denatured and wussified, well at least the beta males and/or non-psychopaths (the psychopaths another 1% and likely much of the economic 1%) among us.

I recall hearing Gene Odening, in his last interview with Jan, (I think it was here, "Gene Odening interview, pt. 4 – “Beyond the Trivium” – #133") casually drop in conversation that he (Gene) is a Freemason. Jan didn't seem to blink, and no one followed up on it in the comments. After hearing Gene talk for hours, that surprised me not at all. I don't think that makes anything he said less valid, but it's something to keep in mind. (Gold is where you find it.) I'd have to go back and listen again to understand your comments about civilized vs. uncivilized men and their relative manliness. If you mean the civilized men are less bellicose and more thoughtful than uncivilized men, then at the risk of being called a "wuss", please call me "civilized".

 

[Richard Stanley]

My question about this is: is there any way to reconcile the Postflaviana thesis with Allegro's thesis? Jan must have thought so, at least for a while, otherwise he wouldn't have had his relatively long standing relationship with Joe. I recall Joe saying at some point that he thought that the sun god thesis was a dead end. I would like to hear or read discussion on this.

By the "Postflaviana thesis" are you referring to our general take on the vectors into forming Christianity, hence the "sun god" business? This versus Allegro's notions on Xian origins, which I'm only vaguely familiar with. Perhaps Jerry or Joe can answer this question better than me.

That said, Jerry and I don't agree with Joe on certain matters, where Jerry and I see a much longer and near contiguous thread of elite control, which if not always genetic based, then via other means of transferring certain aspects. The main common motif involved, as far as I am concerned, is indeed a focus on esoteric aspects of cosmology (including solar aspects) and utilizing it in various ways. This including cryptically so embedded within the exoteric religions' theology.

In my original blog article on the Western False Dialectic I mentioned (see below) the work of Thomas McEvilley, where in his book he discusses the gradual evolution of Western religion and philosophy out of shamanism. In addition to this viewpoint though, of a gradual evolution, there is the thesis of Nicholas DeVere where he claims that his clan, of uber-Normans, not only ran the show in England, but nearly everywhere else, including as the real players in the Bible. DeVere's claim echoes legends of such as the Ashina super elite tribe, as well as the the royal Saka (Scythians), both of which might be considered as candidates for ruling even the Ashkenazi. And also matches Herodotus description of the Medes as a special clan, becoming the foundations of the Magi priesthood (friends of the Babylonian Jews no less). All of these accessions to power involve some form of noble cuckholding, which is also memorialized in the Roman foundations (via the rape of the Sabine Women). Yet another common thread, yet most want to deny such linkages.

Here, I might agree with Odening that what we are really witnessing is indeed a covert, long running agenda to re-establish a global system as described by Plato. Is it good or bad is the question. As a microcosm of globalism, the federalism involved provided many economic and other benefits, under the system of harmonizing the various mini-nations, aka 'states'. Jerry and I are mainly concerned that the people controlling the globalizing process don't have everyone else's interests in mind, but their own.

...
Steps towards a Globally Harmonized Religion
The elite have two great and long-standing ambitions, which were expressly stated many times in the ancient canonical literatures of the Hebrews, Greeks and Romans. The first of these long desired ambitions, the universal harmonization of spiritual beliefs and practices, could be seen as beneficial to wider humanity; that is, if such a uniform belief system for all mankind would be a suitable price to pay for those benefits. The second ambition, a pathological greed for accumulating great material wealth and power based on a sense of class or caste entitlement, seems obviously and mundanely crass. Conceivably there could be other motives, but that possibility will be beyond the scope of this series. Whatever the case, the first ambition serves and helps to disguise the second. Religion, as has been observed frequently by the more astute, is a tool of the political elite class that plays on the continuing neuroses of the gullible and/or to the wiles of ambitious sycophants. As such, the development of monotheism was an important part of this agenda.

The global aspect of these ambitions can be traced at least back to ~1000 BCE. Thomas McEvilley in his The Shape of Ancient Thought (ch.2) discusses approximately simultaneous textual assertions from that time, demonstrating priestly desires for subtle transitions from polytheism to pantheism. That is, they began to poetically express the view that all the gods are merely different exoteric aspects (or parts of the body) of one underlying supreme god that permeates all existence. It is highly plausible that these texts were produced by collaborating priesthoods from India, Mesopotamia, and Egypt. Such a collaboration also implies, in our opinion, the existence of a parallel motive by the respective priesthoods’ secular ruling counterparts. Perhaps their goal was to establish (or re-establish?) a uniform global caste system. If so, this would encompass the second, greed-based motive within a spiritual cloak. Of course, the credulous can still claim that such expressions were only part of God’s planned process of gradual ‘revelation’. ...
http://postflaviana.org/old-testament-intro-rev2/​

I'd have to go back and listen again to understand your comments about civilized vs. uncivilized men and their relative manliness. If you mean the civilized men are less bellicose and more thoughtful than uncivilized men, then at the risk of being called a "wuss", please call me "civilized".

My comment there was mainly an ironic dig about some (men mostly) taking their cultural issues too much to heart. A degrading "war on Christmas" one complains. OK, fine but just please admit that Christmas is a pagan holy day, and that the Jesus of the Bible would know nothing about it.

 

[Richard Stanley]

My question about this is: is there any way to reconcile the Postflaviana thesis with Allegro's thesis? Jan must have thought so, at least for a while, otherwise he wouldn't have had his relatively long standing relationship with Joe. I recall Joe saying at some point that he thought that the sun god thesis was a dead end. I would like to hear or read discussion on this.

Jerry tells me that he is no more proficient on Allegro's thesis than I am. Maybe you can summarize it for us Mike?

In any case, I just read this recent article you might find related, as it discusses hallucinogenic experiences and such as hearing voices, God's and/or others.
https://www.theatlantic.com/interna...reading-the-bible-through-neuroscience/539871

As for me, my reading of such as the biblical prophets is much more cynical, that this became an 'political' industry such as at the time of Samuel and Saul. There is also the famous biblical saying about a prophet not being accepted by his own, which is an interesting contradiction to the take presented in the article.

People absolutely do hear 'voices' but where do these voices really originate? And here I'll even accept that such as shaman and others, via such as hallucinogens may indeed gain some valuable insights, but all this doesn't logically preclude that yet others (humans) are gladly willing to step in and profit in various ways. Rationality is a tool, and like any other tool, it can be put to good or bad purposes.

There are people that discuss that the Beatitudes were cribbed from the Cynic philosophers, who were critical of the mainstream PTB of the day. I think it makes sense that the creators of our religion would do just that, only twist the message to their own advantage, just as we've discussed on other threads about the recent books demonstrating how Paul was a double agent for the Romans, which can be seen by his actions and by the subtext of his message. In other words, the creators of a new religion, profitably co-opt aspects of what has come before, bending things to their own advantage. This conceivably would include various aspect that came from the magic mushroom focus of Allegro, as one finds such as the mandrake in the OT. However, I'm not aware of anything of an exoteric nature, at least, in Xianity that demonstrates such.

BTW, McEvilley discusses the theory that the original Cynic philosophers were those (essentially) shaman individuals who were excluded from the first religious formulations developed in the earliest political communities where the chief/kings actively collaborated with the approved shaman cum priests (frequently related).

 

[Jerry Russell]

Drama about this is still going on over at Jan Irvin's Facebook page. I've long since been banned from posting there, but I can still read it by means of undisclosed technical wizardry.

A past regular at this site, Craig Bickford, relayed the information that Joe had visited Loren Hough in Fiji, apparently last January or February. Loren subsequently told Craig that Joe believes that I am a CIA spook. I'm guessing that actually it's Loren who thinks I'm a CIA spook, and Joe was too polite to disagree forcefully enough for Loren to hear him.

Referring to Postflaviana, Craig said: "The f*ing drama over there was thicker than a seventh grade girls locker room btw". As if there's no drama at all to be found at Jan Irvin's Facebook page.

But it's been pretty quiet around here lately, since we stopped allowing our site to be "cuckolded" for all kinds of nonsense. I must say I prefer it this way.

Jan Irvin notified me of these new developments by email. "Sorry to hear", he said. Gee Jan, I didn't know you cared.

 

[Richard Stanley]

I don't think that Craig Bickford, yet another admitted race nationalist, will be happy with your and Joe's latest podcast. And I wonder how he knows so much about the drama in a seventh grade girls locker room?

I wonder if Craig knows if Loren is gleefully miscegenating? Or, is Loren really doing so in fact?

 

[Richard Stanley]

I'll bet that, just like Loren (an admitted organizer of the acid parties), Jan has never touched any psychedelic substance. Does this poseur have shotgun paranoia, or what? Delusions of grandeur, as witnessed by his ethereal gaze into the ... infinite? No wonder Loren adores this faux guru. Well, at least the admittedly well-endowed Loren can help Jan with his love life perhaps.



Is this even the same person? The one on the left looks like he is trying to look like he is on acid, and the one on the right looks like he needs to be on acid and/or Miralax.

What is that red ick on his collar? This is deliberate occult messaging, and furthermore, I say that this specific smile looks very familiar. It does not come naturally, and infers membership in a specific organization. Why is he wearing a black thingy at the neckhole of his white t-shirt? And then there is some illuminated Satanic being underneath, to boot.

The following excerpt is part of a long article trashing Jan's weak Wasson analysis, and equally weak methodology. Among the latter, non-trivial examples are given of Jan's bad practices, including his creating the conditions for Harvard to refuse access to Wasson records, which he then brags about becoming a proof of his thesis.

The article also discusses Jan's typical dismissive discussion behavior, which demonstrates to me that he knows he cannot possibly defend the conclusions in his book. Therefore he gelds himself by violating his Trivium and more to obfuscate in deflecting manners that evokes 'Dotard' Trump.

One might be tempted to say that Jan's book was merely a crass attempt to earn a living, but perhaps more serves as part of the shtick of today's cultural agent provocateur whose job it is to flame divisiveness in all possible arenas, under the guise of protecting (white man's) Culture. A Culture he admits (with Masonic Odening) is properly based upon land ownership, via conquest (preferably), and ultimately is global in nature under the aegis of the Arya (the elite shaman tribe of which were/are red-headed like Jan).

...
Another point to make is that Irvin and his followers repeatedly invoke the Trivium, an ancient psychological system designed to facilitate knowledge acquisition and effective reason. The Trivium is wielded like a powerful amulet by Irvin's followers (some critics have called it a "fetish"). The assumption is that those who do not use the Trivium cannot see as clearly (i.e. see the big mind control conspiracies) as those, like Irvin and his followers, who do use it. In fact, as Tommy Decentralized has pointed out (before Irvin once again deleted his posts), the Trivium can rightly be used to debunk conspiracy theories! And, as Irvin has pointed out elsewhere, the Trivium can even be used to mislead people.

At the end of the day, what everything really boils down is interpretation. I have heard Irvin speak of the so-called "grammar" of the Trivium (the who, what, where and when) as being akin to bricks. And that once the bricks have been established, a house can be built. But the truth, it seems to me, is that Irvin is building something according to the dictates of his imagination as opposed to revealing an objectively existing building. This is to say that he takes all these bricks (people, places, associations — the who, what, where and when) and then builds a vast conspiratorial architecture that is not actually there at all. So it is not an objective house of bricks that Irvin has constructed, but rather a paranoid house of cards.

All this suggests that Irvin is using his beloved Trivium in an erroneous manner. Here is an astonishing quote of Irvin's from his two hour Red Ice interview: "Anybody who tells you that logic goes first is a sophist and is trying to trick you." Say what? Anybody who does not use the Trivium and applies their own brand of logic and common sense when making a judgment about an issue is out to trick others? That contention sounds mighty paranoid and elitist to me! ...
http://realitysandwich.com/162177/paranoia_psychedelic_mushroom_community/​

 

[Jerry Russell]

The 'Reality Sandwich' article by Simon Powell, linked above, is trying to rehabilitate Gordon Wasson's reputation. Powell argues that Wasson was blissfully innocent and unaware that he was receiving funding from the CIA. Joe and I have discussed this, and Joe came up with another argument for Wasson's guilt. Wasson was asked about it years later, and denied that he ever received any funding from Geschickter. Why would he need to deny it, if he was unaware that there was anything improper about this funding source? It seems that he had a guilty awareness that a cover-up was necessary.

Unfortunately, I can't track down any details -- I think we discussed this on a podcast. I'll ask Joe if he still has the information about the interview where Wasson is denying this connection.

Also, Powell buys into the view that MK-Ultra was only interested in mind control for spying & espionage purposes. This is what we would call the 'Marks limited hangout.' Of course, we're saying here that the CIA was much more broadly motivated to promote a wide variety of drugs for general use. And even though Irvin's methodology has been severely called into question, I still believe that there's a good case to believe that he's right about this.

Aside from Irvin and Atwill, another author that's been looking into this is John Potash. His 2015 book "Drugs as Weapons Against Us" has some chapters about MK-ULTRA and LSD, although the main focus is heroin & opium as the CIA drugs of choice for social destruction.

http://www.johnpotash.com/books-dvds/#s1

Drugs as Weapons Against Us meticulously details how a group of opium-trafficking families came to form an American oligarchy and eventually achieved global dominance. They directed the CIA in operations such as MK-Ultra pushed LSD and other drugs on leftist leaders and left-leaning populations at home and abroad. Evidence supports that this oligarchy further led the United States into its longest-running wars in the ideal areas for opium crops, while also massively funding wars in areas of coca plant abundance for cocaine production under the guise of a “war on drugs” that is actually the use of drugs as a war on us. Drugs as Weapons Against Us tells how scores of undercover U.S. Intelligence agents used drugs in the targeting of leftist leaders from SDS to the Black Panthers, Young Lords, Latin Kings, and the Occupy Movement. It also tells how they particularly targeted leftist musicians, including John Lennon, Jimi Hendrix, Kurt Cobain, and Tupac Shakur to promote drugs while later murdering them when they started sobering up and taking on more leftist activism. The book further uncovers the evidence that Intelligence agents dosed Paul Robeson with LSD, gave Mick Jagger his first hit of acid, hooked Janis Joplin on amphetamines, as well as manipulating Elvis Presley, Eminem, the Wu Tang Clan, and others.​

 

[Richard Stanley]

From the same link as prior is an interesting comment on the basis of the Trivium, also germane to what we discuss more widely here.

"Fake Pythagoreans"? Whaaaat? These people sound like .... Pharisees, or casuistic Jesuits. How can this be?

drew hempel on October 10, 2012 at 12:27 pm

Jan you focus on the trivium in this interview thread and so I am pointing out that Pike giving this esoteric origin of the trivium is from NeoPlatonic philosophy that is actually a cover-up conspiracy of the real Pythagorean philosophy. You say that 5:4:3 as a Pythagorean triangle is not the same as 3:4:5 as a Pythagorean triangle. Actually the order of the numbers is directly the essential point in determining the commutative property or non-commutative property. It takes a lot of information to understand this so I’m glad at least you have probably stumbled onto a crucial clue to the truth of the Logos. Archytas use of 5:4:3 for irrational-based geometry had this intention, to quote economist Michael Hudson on the fake Pythagoreans cited by Pike as the Trivium origin:

“They have been likened to the Free Masons, in that they served as a kind of Council of Foreign Relations or New World Order…. Archytas developed the musical scale into a political metaphor for the scales of justice. What gave music this imagery of social balance and just proportion was the ability of its mathematics of harmonic (“geometric”) proportions to serve as an analogy for how inequities of wealth and status rendered truly superior men equal in proportion to their virtue — which tended to reflect their wealth. By this circular logic the wealthy were enabled to rationalize their hereditary dominance over the rest of the population.” Professor Michael Hudson’s essay, “Music as an Analogy for Economic Order in Classical Antiquity” in Jürgen Backhaus (ed.), Karl Bücher. Theory, History, Anthropology, Non-Market Economies (Marburg:Metropolis Verlag, 2000): pp. 113-35 ​

http://realitysandwich.com/162177/paranoia_psychedelic_mushroom_community/​

Of course, Irvin and Odening already showed (in the Quadrivium video) that the truly superior (uhm .. white yet reddish) men properly manifest their Providential dominance over others (much less of their own kind) via dint of arms, e.g. the conquest of liebensraum. "Use it or lose it barbaric bitches." "Possession is 99.99% of the (proper) law."

 

[Richard Stanley]

Also, Powell buys into the view that MK-Ultra was only interested in mind control for spying & espionage purposes. This is what we would call the 'Marks limited hangout.' Of course, we're saying here that the CIA was much more broadly motivated to promote a wide variety of drugs for general use. And even though Irvin's methodology has been severely called into question, I still believe that there's a good case to believe that he's right about this.

To be clear, and to reiterate from the old thread on this specific issue, I absolutely agree with this view as being generally correct. What I object to is the summary, shotgun approach to the whole field, where certain aspects and individuals can be trashed wholesale basis, and anyone who disagrees is an agent of the Matrix, simply to add to Irvin's cult status or whatever motive(s) he has. When you (Irvin) get caught with your pants down one should admit it, rather than deflecting by circumventing one's precious Trivium constantly. "You study and obey my Trivium while I ignore it."

Joe and I have discussed this, and Joe came up with another argument for Wasson's guilt. Wasson was asked about it years later, and denied that he ever received any funding from Geschickter. Why would he need to deny it, if he was unaware that there was anything improper about this funding source? It seems that he had a guilty awareness that a cover-up was necessary.

Maybe Wasson was embarrassed by such association, and had been originally thinking that such 'agency' interest was generally good, especially in terms of the post-WWII gestalt and zeitgeist of the day?

Until the last years of his life, my father didn't want to tell anything about his WWII experience, because his only time that he 'heard' real combat fire was when he was sent via Jeep to the big city of his Philippine island to fetch a case of whiskey for the CO.

Also, Powell buys into the view that MK-Ultra was only interested in mind control for spying & espionage purposes. This is what we would call the 'Marks limited hangout.' Of course, we're saying here that the CIA was much more broadly motivated to promote a wide variety of drugs for general use. And even though Irvin's methodology has been severely called into question, I still believe that there's a good case to believe that he's right about this.

Aren't you mixing apples and apple peels here Jerry?

MK-Ultra was a subset program of the CIA, so maybe Powell would agree that the CIA had other applications for drugs. Like covertly funding right-wing paramilitaries in Central and South America off the budget.

In any case, maybe Wasson, like all of us, came into more and more information as his life proceeded? And as the critics state on the link, how does one reconcile the main body of Wasson's work on the whole topic without throwing the baby out with the bath water? How easy just to make a summary blanket denial by that anyone, anywhere might have obtained some benefit from psychotropics. Human life and reality are much more complex than this. Unless one has the Trivium though, the magic amulet.

Too bad, we've got the Septivium and the Octivium, and .... the Infinium. And if you don't believe me - just ask. ..... Hmmm ... the sound of silence.

Unless my generation and myself had been slipped acid programmatically from kindergarten on, somehow I was indoctrinated just fine at public school, church, and via TV and such. Who needed acid to accomplish this level of slavish konformity, that many yet gloriously label 'freedom' (Remembering Goethe here).

I grew up the product of America being at its peak (according to some estimates) thinking we were quite 'exceptional' indeed. But we weren't told about General Butler's Marine Corp bloody experiences in the Philippines and Nicaragua, making the day bright for America's corporations. These (and others) seems not much different than the Spartan youth being programmatically sent out to terrorize their Helot slave neighbors. It all depends then, upon one's various 'doors of perspective' and cultural preferences.

BTW, if Jan told a critic that they must ignore anything Jan said 3 years before where does anyone stand criticizing pretty much .... 'anything'? That is, beyond Jan's apparent statute of limitations.

 

[lorenhough]

Hans and Jan, at there best. Just out a
Must See

 

[Jerry Russell]

Moved Loren's new link to Jan Irvin's podcast here, for context.

 

[lorenhough]

Yes, of course.

And especially when it comes to 'Vermin Supreme', you could be right. He could be a provocateur, a paid CIA shill. He's your old friend, while I don't know the man from Adam.

It's just that when there's no evidence, I prefer to give the benefit of the doubt.

 

[Jerry Russell]

Moved Loren's new post of Jan Irvin's podcast here, for context.

When I first saw this, I thought it was a brand new podcast. Nope, they filmed this in Jan. 2017.

For a mere 20 minutes extra, you can watch the uncensored version.

 

[Jerry Russell]

I peeked in at Jan's facebook page this morning. He's still actively warning people about Joe Atwill: just 3 days ago (Jan. 21) he posted a big white-on-black graphic proclaiming Joe is "CIA and/or dirty as f***". Steve Outtrim showed up to debate the question, and got himself denounced as a Crowleyan CIA agent, and then blocked. So nothing has changed there.

 

[lorenhough]

I sided with Joe and Jan called me dirty
I never put acid trips together
As I don't like it
I did like
Pot mushroom
But just pot was my thing
Grew it
For a living
Now the oil can help with cancer
And would not take mushroom now days
Low energy
Not good
Fighting for each day
Happy to help
Joe said to Jan get Off the strong pot
Sorry we all can't get along
We are all on the same snow train
With big boys in the engine
And we are in the back
I love Steve Q work
And hans
Joes
Jan gave me
Found Jan on Alex jones show mmmmm

Jan dirty mmm l don't care
If gives me good info
Just keep eyes on him
As we do wit all
Can only trust your self

 

[Jerry Russell]

New information for the Jan Irvin file. He's thrown another regular guest at his podcast, Clint Richardson, into the "Dirty Satanic CIA Spook" category. Richardson responded with an epic rant, including this description of a visit to Irvin's home. Surprise, surprise, it seems that "cultural degradation" is a regular visitor at the Irvin household.

https://realitybloger.wordpress.com/2018/05/25/an-open-letter-to-jan-irvin-and-his-gnostic-media/

I could go on with this particular list (above), but let us speak about the moral aspect of Mr. Jan Irvin… or lack thereof. Because there appears to me to be none to be found. Are you what you pretend to be? Is your heterosexuality a qualifier meaning you are also a moral gentleman to the women you’ve used and desecrated? I learned the answer to this when I came to your home in California to visit, and where between that trip and our other private conversations, I learned about the real Jan Irvin:

1. To top it off, though I will not mention names, you were proud to inform me of the affair you were then having with one of your past guests, despite the fact that she was married with a severely mentally handicapped, autistic child, even as you still pretend moral conviction and superiority in such matters on air. I overlooked this and many other oddities and moral depredations, an action I now adamantly regret…

2. including that brand-spanking new Jeep that had to cost at least $60-70,000. Yes, when I visited you there at your home a few years ago, there it was — brand new and shiny. Beats my piece of shit, 1998 4-Runner valued at about $3,500, although at least I have no debt to cover. Do your “fans” know about this purchase, or do they think you use those donations to actually live as the meager and honest researcher you pretend to be? Did you announce that his overloaded dick-mobile was where all their money was going, or did you get credit and now must solicit money every second to pay it off? Do those who are already harmed by and disenfranchised from this system and who believe you to be one of them (us) know where their money is going to — another charlatan selling himself as a down and out and a desperate researcher, induced into obscurity and income deficiency by secret government agents so he can pay his luxury taxes? You even drove like an asshole all day with no consideration of common law, signs, or lines, showing no sign of respect to other drivers or to women in general, making vulgar comments with every new set of tits or ass that reared itself.

3. Also, while there visiting, you suggested to me something that I found not only unbelievable but tortuously unhinged. You told me that I should use my radio fame, as you do, to get laid. Firstly, Jan, I don’t at all confuse my extremely limited and censored infamy and internet open-broadcasting that anyone can do nowadays with even the remotest hint of fame, and neither should you. Of course, if I’m indeed trying to reason with a narcissist, such advice is useless. You’re so famous that from what I can tell you aren’t even censored like some of us actually are, and in fact are still appearing at the top of most search engines! Secondly, your complete and utter disregard for the moral treatment of women in this and so many other ways was so foreign to me that again I felt like the hollywood grunt or intern trying to get ahead by keeping your jackass behavior, the real you, a public secret. I went through this in Hollywood, working for some real duche-bags, and had to pretend friendship and respect to get ahead in the company. That’s one reason why I left. Well no more, Jan. I won’t comment on your sudden engagement to what some are even calling your new handler, your door prize for playing the devil, this mail-order bride to be from Maine. I don’t know her. But from what I’ve seen of your narcissistic, sociopathic behavior, she is sure to be your future-ex wife in no time at all if anything real exists in that relationship. Or perhaps you are two birds of the same feather?

4. Perhaps my favorite fallacy of yours, and the one that most describes your true moral character, was when you told me that your personal feeling on the way you can personally get back at “them” for their depopulation agenda and genocide was to “fuck” as many women as possible to try and get them pregnant with illegitimate children, to have as many kids as you can born out of wedlock. I couldn’t even respond to that one, Jan, and I remember thinking at the time that this day of hot-rodding around the mountain towns up there in the new Jeep couldn’t have been over any quicker. Meeting you in person was like seeing santa claus drunk in the back alley of Macy’s for the first time, meeting what you thought was a hero but realizing quickly the opposite. It was like the worst kind of bad date, and the only happy ending was when I put my rental car in drive, made like a tree, and leafed.​