Religion: the Crossroads of Myth and History?

Richard Stanley

Well-Known Member
Have you seen my blog post on Abraham? https://postflaviana.org/abraham-and-the-sabian-legacy/

Certainly, in some regards the Bible has lessons for how we should behave, but so did prior civilizations. Whether you like them or not is another question. But the Bible has some noxious things, unless one likes things like slavery and stoning people to death, etc..

The Mud Fossil University does have some interesting material. I am aware of various evidences for giant humanoids, but haven't talked much about them ... too many things on my plate. I am a big believer in Diffusionism and prior human(oid?) civilizations on Earth, which interestingly, the Bible hints at, but doesn't reveal all. And, I am becoming increasing convinced that present day Science is as thoroughly corrupt as Religion. Maybe because Science was nurtured in the elite cradles of formerly religious universities?

In any case, MFU inspired me to swallow some castor oil and dab some into my bad eye. Feels good so far.
 

Tito101

New Member
You mean the theory where parts of the NT were cribbed and redacted from Josephus?

Depends on how you read Josephus. Josephus relied on multiple sources that are
no longer available.

For example, starting with literal assumption of "son" and "father" as, respectively, Herod's sons
(Antipater?) and Herod as "father" would read like the base text of the
NT were written contemporaneously with the sources that Josephus used for his material.
Another interesting tie-in is the Mariamne and Joseph (Herod's brother) adulterous affair that could
have served as template for the birth narrative (a fantasy narrative that was an insult to Herod and
certain (Hasmonean) branches of the Herodian dynasty before Josephus was on the scene).
 

Richard Stanley

Well-Known Member
For some reason this made me consider, as part of the Composite Jesus Hypothesis, that the manner in which the gospels are presented could allow for the amalgamation to indeed represent the Julian, the Flavian, the Herodian, and the Edessan father and son pairs. As long as they weren't publically vocal they could all maintain the conceit for themselves.
 

Richard Stanley

Well-Known Member
Here is a follow-up interview with Lundwall, where they discuss, among other things, the chiastic linkages between the Creation, the Flood, and Sodom and Gomorrah.

 

Richard Stanley

Well-Known Member
You have only stoked my interest in the Hidden Resort concept.

Interestingly, Dr. Price just mentioned some interesting story in the apocryphal Acts of Paul, where Paul is executed and resurrects, coming back to Nero and telling him that now it is his turn:


It is at this point, the supposed deaths of Paul and Nero that Josephus's story arises in relation to Nero and Poppaea. Then there is the odd Talmud account of Nero wanting to become a Jew, and given what we now know about the Edessan story, that the earliest one of the Nero Redivivus legends has him off in Parthia, as well as one of the 'imposters', is very interesting. Well, just 'who' said he was an 'imposter'?

If Nero had gone off to such a 'hidden resort' likely their would be leaks, as happened with Hitler sightings around South America. One good means to mitigate such leaks is to spread counter-leaks to muddy the waters. Doing so being necessary for quite some time in my estimation, before the preferred narrative can become canonized.
 

Richard Stanley

Well-Known Member
Thx again. I've heard this phrase often and never really pursued what it is about.

The Church of Domine Quo Vadis in Rome is built where the meeting between Peter and Jesus allegedly took place. The words "quo vadis" as a question also occur at least seven times in the Latin Vulgate.[3]

As such, one has to wonder why the Church would allow such a legend to be memorialized so, if there is not something underlying it.

Imagine Monobazus II (per Ellis), Izates/Isa, making a planning trip to Rome to meet with Nero, Paul/Josephus, and the Flavians. And on the way he meets his 'disciple' Peter. "Quo vadis?" then becomes an inside joke in the retellings of the story.

How would that be for a movie? We could call it Zeitguest [sic].

All the variant stories and gospels, early on, allow for the most divergent religio-cultural perspectives to be satisfied, slowly bringing the variant flocks to identify as Christians over generations. Only once these identifications become solidified do the 'heresies' start being pruned, and the deired new amalgamated mystery school and exoteric religion is officially born.
 

Seeker

Well-Known Member
For example, starting with literal assumption of "son" and "father" as, respectively, Herod's sons
(Antipater?) and Herod as "father" would read like the base text of the
NT were written contemporaneously with the sources that Josephus used for his material.
Another interesting tie-in is the Mariamne and Joseph (Herod's brother) adulterous affair that could
have served as template for the birth narrative (a fantasy narrative that was an insult to Herod and
certain (Hasmonean) branches of the Herodian dynasty before Josephus was on the scene).
Speaking of Antipater, several authors have postulated that he impregnated the mother of Jesus, thus making Jesus the grandson of Herod and the literal "King of the Jews".
 

Seeker

Well-Known Member
All the variant stories and gospels, early on, allow for the most divergent religio-cultural perspectives to be satisfied, slowly bringing the variant flocks to identify as Christians over generations. Only once these identifications become solidified do the 'heresies' start being pruned, and the deired new amalgamated mystery school and exoteric religion is officially born.
Which "officially" occurred during the reign of Roman Emperor Constantine the Great, if I am following you correctly.
 

Richard Stanley

Well-Known Member
"Officially", generally yes. Constantine stopped state funding for the pagan temples and steered it to the Christians. But it was a process even beyond the Nicene Council.
 

Seeker

Well-Known Member
when one is talking about the graft of the wild and domesticated olive tree in Romans 11, it is really an allusion to the grafting of Romans ('gentile' meaning gentil elites - not non-Jews) onto the pharaonic / Ptolemaic royal lineage. And, it becomes the fulfillment of the prophecy that Esau (Edom) will regain his Abrahamic inheritance from Jacob (Judah and/or Ephraim). The Talmud also identifies the Romans as Edomites
In different ways, it appears that Ralph Ellis, Roman Piso, and Charles N. Pope also make the Egyptian/Roman connection/grafting process.
 

Seeker

Well-Known Member
It is my belief that the Nasorean / Nazarenes name derives from the Egyptian 'NZR' for 'prince' and similar relates to 'branch', as in the root and branch of Jesse, etc.. This is why the reference to "the Egyptian" as a rebel leader, who we think is a cryptic allusion to the historical 'Jesus' (Izates - Monobazus the younger), not some literal carpenter from a city that likely didn't exist at the time, it's name invented to misdirect from what NZR implies.
From the Wikipedia article on "Nazarene (title)":

The Gospel of Matthew explains that the title Nazarene is derived from the prophecy "He will be called a Nazorean",[4] but this has no obvious Old Testament source. Some scholars argue that it refers to a passage in the Book of Isaiah,[5] with "Nazarene" a Greek reading of the Hebrew ne·tser (branch), understood as a messianic title.[6] Others point to a passage in the Book of Judges which refers to Samson as a Nazirite, a word that is just one letter off from Nazarene in Greek.[7] It is also possible, that Nazorean signs Jesus as a ruler. [8]
 

Tito101

New Member
Speaking of Antipater, several authors have postulated that he impregnated the mother of Jesus, thus making Jesus the grandson of Herod and the literal "King of the Jews".

Herod the Great had 9 wives. One of those wives was Mariamne ("Mary") who he strategically married because she was of "Hasmonean" stock. Herod executed her because of her affair with Joseph. He also had a Samaritian wife called Doris from whom he bore Antipater (Antipater II). Antipater colluded with Herod's brother Pheroras to overthrow Herod the Great and got executed for that in 4 BCE. Some of the Pharisees lobbied for Herod the Great's overthrow and promoted Antipater II as the next messiah. In a critical passage from John, Jesus is asked are you a "Samaritian or from the devil" (referring to Herod the Great) bringing a closer connection to Antipater II.

All of this sounds in a strange way like a rerun of history with the Church of England and King Henry the VIII and his merry wives (...).
 

Seeker

Well-Known Member
All of this sounds in a strange way like a rerun of history with the Church of England and King Henry the VIII and his merry wives (...).
Yes, complete with Henry's daughter Elizabeth as the "Virgin", secretly (according to the "Prince Tudor" and other theories) giving birth to Edward de Vere, and also incestuously (like her ancient Eastern forebears) having Henry Wriothesley by him, besides also giving birth to Francis Bacon, with his incomplete utopian novel,"New Atlantis", influencing the founding of the Royal Society and the USA (plus the Napoleonic Code), along with him supposedly being the eminence grise of Rosicrucianism (serving as "Imperator"), Freemasonry, and, with "half-brother" Edward and others (Apostles?), Shakespeare and the King James Bible. Should we discuss the possibility of reincarnation next?
 

Tito101

New Member
Yes, complete with Henry's daughter Elizabeth as the "Virgin", secretly (according to the "Prince Tudor" and other theories) giving birth to Edward de Vere, and also incestuously (like her ancient Eastern forebears) having Henry Wriothesley by him, besides also giving birth to Francis Bacon, with his incomplete utopian novel,"New Atlantis", influencing the founding of the Royal Society and the USA (plus the Napoleonic Code), along with him supposedly being the eminence grise of Rosicrucianism (serving as "Imperator"), Freemasonry, and, with "half-brother" Edward and others (Apostles?), Shakespeare and the King James Bible. Should we discuss the possibility of reincarnation next?


Religious conversion of the masses went right to the top whenever their Kings and queens converted or helped formulate new religions; an example like we have talked about was Serapianism among the Ptolemies. The spread of Christianity in Europe is also an excellent example. A holy man shaking his stick at the heavens or throwing dust into the air as the origin of a religion is just a fraction of the truth. Take the Danes for example. King Harald Bluetooth was convinced to convert by a miracle performed by a christian holy man (Poppo) who sat on a hot seat without his butt getting fried.
 

Seeker

Well-Known Member
Religious conversion of the masses went right to the top whenever their Kings and queens converted or helped formulate new religions;
Another example, Constantine the Great: "Constantine's army arrived on the field bearing unfamiliar symbols on their standards and their shields.[160] According to Lactantius "Constantine was directed in a dream to cause the heavenly sign to be delineated on the shields of his soldiers, and so to proceed to battle. He did as he had been commanded, and he marked on their shields the letter Χ, with a perpendicular line drawn through it and turned round thus at the top, being the cipher of Christ. Having this sign (☧), his troops stood to arms."[161] Eusebius describes a vision that Constantine had while marching at midday in which "he saw with his own eyes the trophy of a cross of light in the heavens, above the sun, and bearing the inscription, In Hoc Signo Vinces" ("with this sign, you shall win").[162] In Eusebius's account, Constantine had a dream the following night in which Christ appeared with the same heavenly sign and told him to make an army standard in the form of the labarum.[163] Eusebius is vague about when and where these events took place,[164] but it enters his narrative before the war begins against Maxentius.[165] He describes the sign as Chi (Χ) traversed by Rho (Ρ) to form ☧, representing the first two letters of the Greek word ΧΡΙΣΤΟΣ (Christos).[166][167] A medallion was issued at Ticinum in 315 AD which shows Constantine wearing a helmet emblazoned with the Chi Rho,[168] and coins issued at Siscia in 317/318 AD repeat the image.[169] The figure was otherwise rare and is uncommon in imperial iconography and propaganda before the 320s.[170] It wasn't completely unknown, however, being an abbreviation of the Greek word chrēston (good), having previously appeared on the coins of Ptolemy III, Euergetes I (247-222 BCE)."
 
Top