Ramesses I as Moses

Discussion in 'Old Testament - False Dialectic' started by Richard Stanley, Sep 13, 2016.

  1. Richard Stanley

    Richard Stanley Administrator

    Chapter 17 of Secrets of the Exodus is titled Moses and Ramesses I and is quite detailed, so I'll post this in segments.

    It starts off showing some of the murals from Ramesses's tomb. The first of which shows him brandishing his rod over the 12 coiled serpent, Apophis. Apophis was also the name of the Hyksos king that was defeated by the first king of the 18th Dynasty, Ahmose I many years before. The second mural is that of 12 Egyptian goddesses of the night watching Apophis flee into a depiction of a parted sea. In the latter Apophis now has 12 small coils and 8 larger coils that were not remarked upon in the book. Not sure what that 8 might refer to if anything. Perhaps to a different contextual manner of referring to a hierarchy of groups involved in the Exodus than described for the children of Jacob/Israel in Genesis?

    In any case, the symbolic linkage between Ramesses I and Apophis here is at least tenuously suggestive of Ralph Ellis's scenario linking, via purposeful conflation of the scribes, the earlier Hykos expulsion to the later expulsion of the Yahud priesthood and the court of Akhenaton from Egypt. [Edit - paragraph added on 9/14]



    The authors then revert back to the beginning of the Moses narrative talking about his birth legend and how it appears obvious that this motif of being placed into the river waters and then recovered was cribbed from the prior legends of Sargon I, Gilgamesh, Cyrus (the first Persian Emperor and Biblical Jewish savior) and the Egyptian Sinuhe. They mention that for this foundational legend to work that 'Moses' needed to be born a 'Hebrew' and miraculously become an Egyptian -- raised by (one of) the Pharaoh's daughter(s). Because he is so much superior than his 'real' Egyptian brothers he becomes the head of Pharaoh's house and a student / adept of the wisdom of Egypt, including 'magic' as the story unfolds later. And this occurs when events conspire to make him revolt against Pharaoh.

    From pp. 140-141:

    The Hebrew Bible states in Exodus 2:6: "She [Pharaoh's daughter] had pity on him and said, 'It is a child of the Hebrews.'" In the Aramaic Bible, the same verse says: "She had pity on him and said, 'It is a child of the Yahuds (yehudaeh).'" So Moses was a Yahud by birth, a son of the Elohim, belonging to the Egyptian nobility, probably the son of one of Pharaoh's daughters.

    Let's remember from the prior posts on this that the Aramaic Bible is the Syriac Targum, the oldest OT manuscript known. And that previously in this series, the Sabbah brothers have identified the Yahuds as a particular cultic priesthood of one of the involved pharaohs (Amenhotep III), and such identification made by the inscriptions in the cult temple at Soleb in what is now northern Sudan. This would be a priesthood and cult somewhat like those of the priests of the Roman imperial cult, dedicated to the emperor as gods.

    Going on from before:

    "This woman conceived, and bore a son [Moses]. She saw that he was beautiful, and kept him hidden for three months" (Exodus 2:2). The reference to keeping Moses hidden in a cradle for three months appears to be taken from the Egyptian temple service where the priests hid Amun (the hidden god) within the sanctuary to have him reborn into the light every three months.3

    "Not being able to hide him any longer, she prepared for him [Moses] a cradle of bulrushes [ Teva]. She placed the child in it and set him among the reeds on the bank of the river" (Exodus 2:3). In the same way the Pyramid Texts place Pharaoh's birth in the Lake of Reeds. "In the Lake of the Reeds, Re, Shu, and Pharaoh purified themselves. This place of water and light is similar to the celestial paradise that is shown in the form of the 'fields' that Pharaoh crosses."4

    Etymologically, in Hebrew the Nile is written as the river of light. So Moses is depicted as a prince, luminous, sailing on an ark among the reeds in a river of light, which conforms to the Pharaoh in the Pyramid Texts. Moses' birth,combined with the appearance of divine light, is associated with the waters of the Nile, the River of Light. Rashi's commentary states: "How beautiful he was. When he was born, the entire house was filled with light."

    Although the legend of Moses saved from the waters had been assumed, the symbol of the "divine child" saved from the Nile was an integral part of Egyptian religion. Christiane Desroches Noblecourt confirms this. "Every New Year's Day,the flood brings back the divine child, the solar child who is associated with the young king who, apparently, renews himself every year."5

    The following two points are of interest. The divine child, Pharaoh's son, mentioned by Christiane Noblecourt is called "Mes" or "Messess" in Egyptian, because symbolically it derives from "slave of the world." In the Bible, the Hebrew word "Teva" designates both "the cradle of Moses" and Noah's Ark. Since Pharaoh, Moses, Mosheh, the Messiah, arrive on an Egyptian Ark to save the Hebrews from slavery, the "Teva" is the Divine Ark in which God's emissary saves humanity.

    "Now Pharaoh's daughter went down to the river (Yeor) to bathe, with her companions following her. She saw the basket among the reeds" (Exodus 2:5). According to the following illustration, and Plutarch,6 Isis, like Miriam, hid her son Horus (the symbol of light) among the reeds.


    So here one can see Isis, bearing the Sun disk, giving life to the divine child (Ramesses I / aka Moses) within the sea of reeds, the papyrus marsh. The gods Amun and Thoth are assisting, while the two foster mothers are holding the serpent rods, the symbols of life and power. The crowns of the foster mothers are those of the upper and lower kingdoms of Egypt, indicating that they are of the royal court.

    In the next segment we'll look at Ramesses I's cartouche, including one that evokes the stone tablets of Moses and the 10 Commandments. And, as well, we'll see were the symbol for the Lion of Judah originated from, among other things.
    Last edited: Sep 14, 2016
  2. Richard Stanley

    Richard Stanley Administrator

    Part 2

    Taken from page 143 of the book is the graphic detailing the cartouche of Ramesses I:


    On the right side we see the hieroglyphs for Min and Nun, which both make up the main components from the god Amun, thus Min (who emanates from) above the Nun (the primordial waters) provides the underlying substrate for the (Mess) birth of the king - emanating from the primordial waters. The hieroglyph Mess appears to be three bullrushs or 'reeds'. Confusingly (in context of the graphic's annotation) the word Maim is Hebrew for water.

    Note too, in the lower right is a lion, which is also featured at Amenhotep III's temple at Soleb - where the Yahud priesthood seemed to be originally located. Of course, the lion (Hebrew lavi) is the biblical symbol associated with Judah in the book of Genesis, later to be traced through various European royal house heraldry.

    From pg. 141 then is quoted the relevant Bible verse:

    The child grew, and she [the nurse] brought him to Pharaoh's daughter. And he became her son [Leben]. She named [ Vaykra] him Moses, saying, 'Because I drew him [Masheti-oo] forth from the waters [Min A-Maim]'" (Exodus 2:10).

    To the Sabbah brothers this is the most important message in the Bible, and maybe so. This, because in reading between the lines we see the princess admitting that she is the literal mother of the child that emanates forth spiritually from Isis and Amun, involving the waters and the reeds.

    From pg. 143:

    Thus she admits being Moses' mother and that he was born through the god Amun. Moses is Yahud (heir), son of Levi (lion) and the future Ramesses I, one of the pharaohs of Amun's return. In the historical context, Moses would be the son of a secondary wife of Amenhotep III, perhaps from the harem of Min.​

    This does create some confusion though, as Levi and Judah are brothers within Jacob's lineage, albeit both from the "unloved" mother Leah. Here, throughout the book the Sabbah's don't seem to realize the Biblical importance hierarchically placed upon Ephraim, the favored son of Joseph. But in any case, they identify the Yahud 'Levites' as the army of Ramesses I. Or, at least (in my view) as the army portion that will remain the occupiers of Canaan, as depicted in detail in Leviticus, with the Levites being placed in control of the largest 48 cities of Canaan. This irregardless of the general territories of the other 11 tribes, many of which were really indigenous 'Canaanites' at the time. And the tribe of Dan, having been the Mycenaean tribe of the Danoi in the post collapse period of the Late Bronze Age.

    Hmmm ... in archaic English the term levy means "a body of enlisted troops", and "to begin to wage war".

    From our Latin friends, the term levis means 'light'. Recall the prior Hittite name of city of Bethel? Luz. Is this where the term "loser" came from? :rolleyes: Has someone been put in a good light, while others in a bad light?

    Today it is recognized that the Trojans were connected to the Hittite empire. In the foundational narrative of Rome, the Aeneid, the Romans are said to descend from those fleeing the ruins of Troy. The Homeric story of which appears to memorialize the wider collapse of all of the Eastern Mediterranean societies at the end of the Late Bronze Age, except for the Egyptians that is. I only bring this up for the moment to ask, consistent with my larger thesis, if the Yahuds were Egyptians, then what did become of the elite half-tribe of Ephraim (born of Egyptian royal and sacred blood, hand selected by the pharaoh himself)? Could they, over the years, have adopted a different identity?
    Last edited: Sep 14, 2016
  3. Richard Stanley

    Richard Stanley Administrator

    Part 3

    Continuing on, the authors mention that Seti I, Ramesses I's son and also equated with the Biblical Joshua ben Nun, has made a declaration that corresponds to the Biblical account of the Exodus. From Dominique Valbelle's Histoire de l'Etate Pharoanique (1998) pg. 288:

    (The text in brackets is the authors, the red highlighting is mine.)

    I speak of what I did [what I became] until I was the master of the two shores. I came from the womb [of my mother] like the Bull of Maat [Emet in Hebrew], impregnated by good counsel and teachings. When he [Ramesses I] was Re, I was with him as a star at his side [...]. I [subjugated] the lands of the Fenekhu, I drove out for him the dissidents [the Yahud monotheists of Akhet-Aten] into the desert country. I organized his monarchy like Horus on the throne of Unennefer. I chose Maat for him everyday, and I bore him on my bosom [...] in his name Mehenyt. I assembled his army and gave him a single heart [Lev in Hebrew: the army of the Levites]. I sought for him the subsistence of the double land and I placed my arm in the service of his close protection in the foreign lands the names of which were [still] unknown. I was a courageous hero in his presence in order that he might open his eyes upon my perfection.

    Next begins a discussion of the Ten Commandments upon the stone tablets supposedly given to Moses by God while upon Mt. Sinai.

    As they say, apart from the prohibition of worshiping all the other gods, of making graven images, and of resting on the 7th day, the other commandments are included within the traditional Egyptian wisdom literature. The three exceptions mentioned just prior are part of the massive cultural inversions imposed upon the new synthetic society that Egypt is imposing upon its neighboring region, i.e. the 613 Mosaic Laws. The seven laws that are yet in common with the Egyptian ones are known in Judaic oral tradition as the "seven laws of Noah" or "Noah's laws". In any case, a good Egyptian had to justify his mortal behavior before the celestial tribunal by the upholding of these laws as well as 35 others.

    The authors discuss that Moses and Joshua, really Ramesses and Seti, escorted the "dissidents" along with their new monotheistic accoutrements, focusing here on a dual arched stone tablet, as one on exhibit in the Turin Museum (as claimed for the below image). Unfortunately, they don't reference a source as to what the association is between the tablet and these events are. In any case, this tablet's first and last (hieroglypic) words form "Ankh Aten", the basis for Akhenaten's name, and conforming with the first biblical commandment said to have been inscribed on Moses's tablets, that of "Anokhi Adonay". And BTW, Hebrew, or any other script alphabetic writing did not exist at this time.


    Then comes a curious remark that the 11th century CE Jewish commentator, Rashi, had stated that the 613 Mosiac Laws were contained within the 10 Commandments, and that those all derived from the first law. Hence, according to the Sabbah brothers, they can be seen as all essentially flowing from the name for Akhenaten, but even more importantly forms a close congruence for what is claimed to be on the Turin tablet.

    Also, tablets like these, including the dual or single arched tops are commonly known as 'stele' and were typically used by kings to issue proclamations, including such as 'laws', and as memorials. In a coming cartouche for Ay, we'll see a hieroglyph for one actually issuing sacred laws. As Ay, being the puppetmaster behind all of this business, acts as 'God' (when he is not acting as Joseph and Jethro that is) issuing the laws to Ramesses/Moses - upon the two stone tablets. [Edited 9/14]

    Of course, some of the other accoutrements of the new religion were the Tabernacle and the Ark, both of which were commonplace items of Egyptian royal regalia. The former being the accurate description of a pharaoh's portable shrine / command post for military campaigns. The Hebrew mishkan which surrounded the Tabernacle is the exact description of the typical security perimeter wall that surrounded the pharaoh's tent.
    Last edited: Sep 15, 2016
  4. Jerry Russell

    Jerry Russell Administrator Staff Member

    I'm going to try to find out about conventional Egyptologist views of these topics.

    Regarding the two murals from Ramesses' tomb, osirisnet.net gives the following explanation.

    For the first mural, they agree that this serpent is Apophis, but they think it's the God Atum fighting him. Does Atum == Ramesses? Maybe?


    The God Atum leans on a stick before the representation of the enormous snake Apophis. The god thus prevents Apophis exerting his malefic action and from reversing the solar barque. Curiously, the reptile is not shown as one so often sees him elsewhere.
    Above of the annexe, towards the right, is an inscription : "The assembly of the gods, who repulses Apophis." The divinities themselves are not even represented.
    Notice that the representation of Apophis is located directly under that of the divine barque.​

    For the second mural, the snake is identified as Hereret. Mythology Dictionary says Hereret is "A huge serpent living in the Lake of Cobras. The evil that this beast spewed out was swallowed by the goddesses guarding the flame of Ra." Which sounds a lot like Apep (Apophis), who also spewed out those it had swallowed, and was killed by Ra. Close, but not exactly the same? According to osirisnet, the twelve goddesses in the mural are about to swallow what comes out of the snake.


    Twelve goddesses are located on two slopes, "the Hours which are in the Duat", forming two groups of six. Between the two groups, an enormous snake "the one who must be removed". Above of the snake, is an inscription : "Twelve to be extinguished are born in front of her, here it is that the hours swallow them."

    The text which comes with these representations, is in retrograde writing, which reads :
    "They are held on (edges) of their lake, they direct Ra."
    Ra : "Listen, Oh hours, the requests are addressed to you, act on your account, among you! The place of your rest is your pylons, your breasts are in the darkness, your posteriors in the light. Stop (?) the Hereret snake, you who live on what comes out of him. Your portions are in the Duat! Swallow the children of Hereret so that you can lead me. It is I who formed you, I acted so that you pay homage to me! You are satisfied, Oh my inhabitants of the Duat!"
    "Their offerings consist of breads, their beer is Djeseret, their refreshment is water. The offerings which are presented to them consist of that which comes from before the blissful mind."​
    From where do these mysterious hours come and where do they go? (Hornung, Barberio).
    Every hour has a clear side and a dark side, representing the part of the hour that moves toward light and the one already gone. These goddesses are represented upright on two triangles surrounding the body of the time-snake. These triangles include a dark part and a clear rippled part representing darkness and the primordial waters (Nun).
    The snake represents a sort of mass of time from where are extracted the hours which are then swallowed there again.​
  5. Richard Stanley

    Richard Stanley Administrator

    One wonders why the Egyptians would sometimes depict their gods with animal heads and at other times with human heads, but it does seem that the mural depiction is one typical for Atum, as from the below Wikipedia excerpt. Here, it is interesting to note that Atum was born from Nun and Nunet, the sacred aspects of the primordial seas and one of the four mated pairs of the Ogdoad Cosmology. So here Ramesses I and his son, Seti I, can be seen as sons of Nun, as was Joshua ben Nun.

    He is usually depicted as a man wearing either the royal head-cloth or the dual white and red crown of Upper Egypt and Lower Egypt, reinforcing his connection with kingship. Sometimes he also is shown as a serpent, the form he returns to at the end of the creative cycle, and also occasionally as a mongoose, lion, bull, lizard, or ape.[2]
  6. Jerry Russell

    Jerry Russell Administrator Staff Member

    I'd be willing to accept the idea that Atum could depict Pharaoh Ramesses, or vice versa, more or less interchangeably.

    Moving right along... conventional wisdom is that Yahud is just Arabic for Judah, or Jewish. The Sabbah Bros claim that this is etymologically related to Yahu-Dueh, Egyptian for 'adoration, prayer, homage', and so forth. They equate this to the Egyptian priesthood. Their source for all this is footnoted to this book:


    Which is described as a series of "fictional accounts" by the author, who is described as a pupil of her husband, the egyptologist and occultist R._A._Schwaller_de_Lubicz. The blurb says she was able to "penetrate the secret symbolism of the hieroglyphs."

    I'd have to score this as another big "maybe".
  7. Jerry Russell

    Jerry Russell Administrator Staff Member

    The Sabbah Bros don't say where they got this image of Isis and Horus in the reeds. It seems highly generic, rather than specific to Ramesses. But, this does indicate that the Moses myth is drawing on Egyptian royal imagery.

    The cartouche for Ramesses I looks pretty similar to this drawing http://www.touregypt.net/featurestories/ramessesi.htm. I found this version a couple other places around the web. Compared to the Sabbah Bros version, the only thing missing is the "nun" symbol (water). Assuming that some instances do exist showing the cartouche with the "nun" symbol, this seems like a pretty convincing parallel to the Exodus passage about Moses. Score this one for the Sabbah Bros.
  8. Richard Stanley

    Richard Stanley Administrator

    Yes, there are bound to be many such generic aspects to this. Another one, coming soon will be their inclusion of d'Olivet's early 19th century esoteric analysis of the Hebrew word 'seneh' for 'bush', as in Moses's "burning bush" (that is not consumed) - and thus as a veiled reference to solar theology. One interesting aspect of d'Olivet's analysis is that this was considerably before the city of Akhetaten and Akhenaten, and his solar-esque monotheism were discovered.

    d'Olivet seemed to have discerned a systematic lingual approach to the Hebrew language, especially as relates to a veiled connection to the geometry and gematria of the Cabala, which is cosmological in nature. This, being a close parallel system to the Greek system attributed to Pythagoras and Orpheus. I have found it quite profitable to review Fideler, as I have stated several times before, as what he discusses in detail about the Greeks appears to be restated Atenism - because of the solar aspects.

    In the latest case, I have been trying to figure out a post regarding the significance of the 'Logos', as it found its way into the Gospel of John and the works of Philo. As Fideler relates, the Logos, IS NOT the 'Word', but is rather a very nuanced and sophisticated term as used by the early Greeks like Plato, and likely by the author of the original GJohn. And, it is interesting, as similar with d'Olivet, is that because of Fideler's focus, he does not relate all this back to Atenism, even though the Greeks explicitly stated that they inherited everything from the Egyptians and the Mesopotamians. This parallel seems to add to the massive cultural parallels between the Jews and the Greeks discussed by Moses Hadas in his Hellenistic Culture, Fusion and Diffusion.

    The consequences of all this interwound, esoteric theology and philosophy seems to have greater meaning for the ultimate motivation to interwind the gospels with Josephus than mere vanity, especially if the Flavians were Chrestians. And if the Talmud is correct that Nero came to Jerusalem with Josephus [sic], instead of the 'official' story.

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