Racism, Cultural Degradation, and Misplaced Paranoia Article Thread

[Richard Stanley]

Possibly, but Craig seems to have a specific "legal definition" for what constitutes a 'White man'. I suspect those 'White' groups (today at least) monitored by the SPLC don't have gradations of white people as this would expose the hypocrisy of all this, and limit their recruiting capability as well. As I stated before, at one time, such as the KKK, and mirrored in wider society, looked down upon Celtic and Mediterranean types. And this ignores the distinction between the inbred nobles and 'white' peasants, who have no genetic relationship.

 

[Sgt Pepper]

Gradations in terms of geography and wealth can be seen throughout history within various groups that have culminated in what today known are known as white, brown, black, yellow, red, etc.
From a macro view, those groups are generally lumped because of various traits. There are some fuzzy characteristics, but from a macro view, there are differences (genetic, historical, cultural). Duh.

There's also a question of self-identity for each individual – how intense was their inculcation? Has it happened more to certain groups of individuals?

In terms of misplaced paranoia, I think it can be equally applied to those paranoid about 'white extremist' groups. Influence has long since declined to a laughable point.

 

[Richard Stanley]

Gradations in terms of geography and wealth can be seen throughout history within various groups that have culminated in what today known are known as white, brown, black, yellow, red, etc.
From a macro view, those groups are generally lumped because of various traits. There are some fuzzy characteristics, but from a macro view, there are differences (genetic, historical, cultural). Duh.

Yes, but my point is to address the issue raised by those, who have posted on this site, and which is seen expressed more diffusely and dramatically within the nationalism of such as the Tea Party, about desires for creating 'race nations'. The very act of doing so begs the question of whether or not the very same racial gradation situation can exist inside of a new 'race nation'. The very people who would demand such a race nation would then either have to admit that this is so, and then have to ironically deal with the problems yet again.

Just as I have suggested elsewhere that today's polarized American social dynamic in relation to globalism, mirrors the situation between nationalist Jewish Zealots and Rome, it seems to me that the same cultural/tribal implications were understood before when Alexander's project came unglued. And, not so incidentally, the Maccabees were really aligned with the globalizers and not with the Jewish nationalists, as most like to romantically delude themselves. As such, I see Trump and Hillary playing the same game as the Maccabees.

There's also a question of self-identity for each individual – how intense was their inculcation? Has it happened more to certain groups of individuals?

Absolutely. It's also interesting to note how dramatically individuals can rapidly change their cultural-political outlook and expression based upon their changing life circumstances, such as did they become a parent, did they become wealthy or the reverse.

In terms of misplaced paranoia, I think it can be equally applied to those paranoid about 'white extremist' groups. Influence has long since declined to a laughable point.

I'm paranoid about paranoid people, period. As H.L. Mencken I believe said: "Moderation in all things, except moderation that is." But, I am 'concerned' about the impact that groups of ignorant people have, especially when they are being stampeded with group mind techniques as mentioned by Vin. This is exactly what happened with the Brown Shirt mobs that supported Hitler, and then once in power he drug them and a lot of others through the mud.

And from the late Nicholas De Vere's POV, Hitler was ironically a 'mud person', being the descendant of dirt farmers (and of course ignoring claims that he was 1/4 Rothschild), though De Vere claimed no animus to such low caste status. In fact, De Vere claimed that under the old, old system, if his estate's access road to civilization was breeched by flooding, his kind would be obliged to get out and dig out the mud along with his villagers.

 

[Richard Stanley]

De Vere claimed that his clan of orange headed, green eyed peoples were the premier clan of clans, so to speak.

I was watching a documentary last night on Queen Elizabeth I, as to whether she had murdered Robert Dudley's wife or not. She did not, but her cousin, Cecil likely did - for the Machiavellian reason of preventing Elizabeth's marriage to Dudley. In any case, she was depicted by an actress with orange hair and green eyes.

http://postflaviana.org/community/index.php?threads/orange-is-the-new-white-house-occupant.1753/

 

[Marcilla Smith]

First of all, I have admittedly not finished the article, yet. However, the question has arisen as to "what makes for an ideal culture," so I would like to offer my opinion and thought this the best place for that.

All things being equal, I think the ideal culture would have chimpigs humans organized according to schools of ideology (churches, mosques, self-help support groups, post-modern book clubs, etc), who would each steward an area of land on which they would live and work, the boundaries of which would be based upon bioregional planning. Efforts would be coordinated and disputes resolved through spokescouncils which contained a representative and assistant representative from each of the schools, who would be rotated on a regular basis. Spokescouncils would, in turn, send representatives to higher echelon spokescouncils in similar fashion until at the highest level, there would be a world spokescouncil with representatives from the continental regions.

What I describe is a "top-down" approach and so isn't of much use for more than navel-gazing. From the bottom-up perspective of the individual, I would suggest starting with the culture in which one was raised. If it truly cannot fit one (not does not fit, since that is true for all of us to some extent), then I would seek what remedies are available within that culture until it either can fit, or one finds oneself in another culture which does.

I believe the subconscious Lord has a way of working that sort of thing out for those with the faith and the courage to stay committed to the cause of righteousness

 

[Richard Stanley]

You are, of course, dealing with issues of cosmopolitanism, which the Hellenists, and which are abhorent to others, whom I have allegorized as the Zealots du jour. This being rather ironic when applied to many who likely take offense at being compared to Jews in any form. Until now, the proponents of such as Race Nations and some yet to be defined Culture (that which is being degraded) have been the only ones to speak up to Jerry and me.

The general discussion around this 'degradation' takes a legitimate look at various expressions that in many cases I absolutely agree are retrograde. However, these IMHO then get conflated with issues that are simply desires of certain individuals and sub-communities to live how they want to instead of in a conformist box. This is one aspect that I yet like about (l)ibertarianism, aka "Live and let live".

How ironic that George W. Bush, of all people, has just made a rather enlightened memorial speech, after the Dallas police killings. Where some, even here, are framing the solution as insolvable thus necessitating Race Nations and such, instead of ... just fixing the real problems, including addressing one's own paranoia about their own exceptional 'culture'.

“Too often we judge other groups by their worst examples, while judging ourselves by our best intentions.”

It was a pitch-perfect line from former President George W. Bush’s speech in Dallas on Tuesday, memorializing the police officers killed in a mass shooting last Thursday.

The line is a forceful rebuke of much of the prejudice that lingers in America today — a statement that you should not judge all police, black people, or Muslim Americans just because one person in their group does something bad. (As Zack Beauchamp explained for Vox, Bush was actually quite careful during his presidency to not frame the war on terror as a war on Islam — something Republicans could learn from today.)

By this same sentiment, it is wrong for police officers to stop and, in some cases, shoot people just because of their skin color. And it is wrong for a shooter in Dallas to target officers solely because police in other parts of the country shot innocent black men.

But there are limits to this sentiment. American culture, in theory, prizes individualism. But those individuals are driven by systems, too — for example, a justice system that doesn’t hold bad police officers accountable, or asks cops to make as many stops and issue as many tickets as possible, leading cops to target the most vulnerable minority communities.

“When you put any type of numbers on a police officer to perform, we are going to go to the most vulnerable,” Adhyl Polanco, a New York City police officer, told WNBC. “We’re going to [the] LGBT community, we’re going to the black community, we’re going to go to those people that have no boat, that have no power.”

So we shouldn’t judge other groups by their worst examples. But sometimes, making certain groups better requires confronting those worst examples for systemic reform.
http://www.vox.com/2016/7/12/12164176/george-bush-dallas-shooting-speech-video​

MSNBC's Laurence O'Donnell started a charity fund (The Kind Fund), that provides desks (made in Malawi) to elementary schools in Malawi. The children, as can be seen on the videos are clearly excited to be in school, even when they were sitting attentively and uncomfortably on the dirt floors. What a contrast to the public schools in the USA, especially in the inner cities and poor rural areas, where we waste all kinds of money and distribute the public funding based upon property tax values. The teachers can't teach what needs to be taught anymore.

Yes, this is a debasement of Culture, and somebody(s) is behind it. So how do we get to the non sequitur solution being such as Race Nations by some? BTW, David Duke, one of (avowed non-racist) Loren's idols is now running for US Senate.

I remember watching a 60 Minutes segment probably 30 years ago. It was about a Chicago black woman (I think her name was Marva Collins) who started a school in her home for troubled back children, who were failing in school. She had some very simple approaches, including providing interesting books to read. One of the 'complaints' that the parents had was they had problems with some in getting them to turn out their reading lights at bedtime. Test scores rocketed, but no ... the solutions must not be so simple.

Yes, (to some here) we have a Culture problem, but lets look in the right places for solutions, not down rabbit holes.

From the bottom-up perspective of the individual, I would suggest starting with the culture in which one was raised. If it truly cannot fit one (not does not fit, since that is true for all of us to some extent), then I would seek what remedies are available within that culture until it either can fit, or one finds oneself in another culture which does.

Agreed.

 

[Marcilla Smith]

Having completed more navel-gazing, I would like to amend my earlier comments as to what a top-down view of "ideal culture" looks like.

First, as we chimpigs have only begun evolving since the relatively recent interspecies acts of physical love of our simian and porcine ancestors, we need to recognize, in humility, that we can learn a great deal by observing the more matured societies of other animals. Bee culture, for example, is known as "eusocial" due to the extent to which the actions of the hive are coordinated and interdependent ("community hive mind," anyone)?

Taking our lead from the bees, I think the focus of society should shift from the production of material wealth to the production of fully and healthfully-developed chimpigs from birth. In support of this, the old gender and mating system will be replaced.

Under the new eusocial system, there will be three genders - Queens, Husbands, and Drones. All chimpigs will begin life as drones and be raised primarily by the older drones. Most drones will remain as such all of their lives. Beginning adolescence, hormone therapy will keep them sterile and androgynous. While working, they would mostly conform to what we might nowadays call "gender neutral." In their downtime, they would conform more to what we think of a "heterofeminine." Thus, work time is more focussed on work and playtime is more focussed on play.

The next largest segment of eusocial chimpig society will be the husbands. By adolescence, some drones will have distinguished themselves and been selected by their fellow drones to become husbands. If hormone therapy is required, it will be used to keep them virile, as husbands will most closely correspond to what we think of as "heteromasculine." Once selected, new husbands will be sent from the hive where they were born and raised to finish being raised in a sister hive where they will stay as adults, thus reducing interhive rivalry. Their work will be to provide protection for and within the hive, and to provide "genetic material" for the queens, thus ensuring greater genetic diversity. In their downtime, husbands will be waited on by drones-at-work while socializing with drones-at-play.

The smallest group within the society will be the queens. Like the husbands, queens will have distinguished themselves and be chosen from the drones at adolescence. The only gendered requirement for queens would be that they are capable of carrying a child. By today's standards, therefore, their gender could run from very feminine to very masculine. Their work would be to provide children and make ultimate decisions on child-rearing and therefore on the administration of the hive as a whole. The rest of the hive would serve them, as they would only answer to their own internal hierarchy which would, in turn, answer to the drone polity. They could serve as queens as long as they continued to produce children, after which, they would return to being drones upon retirement

 

[Richard Stanley]

Wow, you're really taking to my Egyptian focus eh? The 'bee' being a common symbol for the pharaohs and even the Macca-bees I bee-lieve. BTW, just learned that Josephus stated that the Maccabee kings were buried in pyramidal tombs.

It appears though that you are deviating from the bee paradigm in that the analogy isn't perfect. You seem to have replaced the asexual bee workers with hupig drones? And similar for the bee drones.

I wonder if the bee queen is where the Egyptians and Jews derived the matrilineal concept from?

I wonder how many women today would like a return to being merely baby factories. As I discussed about the Population Bomb, most couples tend to naturally reduce their desire to procreate down to about two, which the video shows trending to a peak population of 11 billion. This desire to slow down stemming from advancements in living standards, including perceived health.

 

[Marcilla Smith]

I wonder how many women today would like a return to being merely baby factories.

Some would prefer that to being a factory + working in a factory, others would wonder when the time was that they ever weren't both. More to the point, in a eusocial culture, individual preferences would go the way of individual identity as all are absorbed into the hivemind.

Besides, they get to be baby factories SLASH aristocracy

 

[Jerry Russell]

Marcilla, do you see yourself best fitting into this society as a drone, a husband, or a queen?

 

[Marcilla Smith]

I think that would be pretty easy to answer in my case. They doesn't necessarily mean that I should, though. Are we going to make sure everyone in the class has a chance to answer? lol

I've already given myself an out, in any event:

...in a eusocial culture, individual preferences would go the way of individual identity as all are absorbed into the hivemind.

 

[Richard Stanley]

Does a queen pick a husband or vice versa? Or is it more like Katherine the Great?

 

[Jerry Russell]

Since the vast majority of chimpigs would be drones, I think we need to do whatever we can to make life comfortable for them. At least in Brave New World, the drones get sex and drugs.

Or we could make it like Heaven, and the drones could spend all their time singing in the choir and attending sermons.

 

[Marcilla Smith]

I think IRL we somehow went from a counter-culture ideal of "s*x, drugs, and rock & roll" to a contemporary reality of "leaked" celeb scandal videos, "anti-depressants" with a gourmet coffee chaser, and auto-tune. The types are consistent, but their purpose has been turned from rebellion to conformity.

In compliance with the third of the of Sir Isaac Newton Christ's Holy Trinity of Motion, there is an equal and opposite reaction in the traditional Heaven of the choir-singing and sermon-attending types. As exhibit "A," I present one of the Lutheran church's rising stars:

Reverend Nadia Bolz-Weber

Now as to Rick's question, I can only imagine there to be a complex mating ritual in such a society.

Is it too late to file paperwork for a Chimpigbee Party for the 2016 election? This is getting far less resistance than I would have anticipated

 

[Richard Stanley]

This is getting far less resistance than I would have anticipated

Well, Saint Loren was excommunicated. That said, this beesness is generally not what I was expecting as a reply to my question. I was expecting responses along something along more conventional lines. For example, some want a conservative return to (their perceived optimal) Augustan Family Values, while yet acknowledging the Caesarian input to Christology.

As surrounding Carotta's influence, not only did a Catholic priest participate in translating his book, but the priest and some others are conforming Catholic rituals to more explicitly refer to Christ Julius. As such, is this really the direction we should be moving the needle? Obviously you have taken such an extremely conservative, neo-Platonic position that it appears to wrap around and look liberal, ala Dave Bergland's political Libertarian analysis. But maybe you had your tongue in your cheek?

 

[Marcilla Smith]

Obviously you have taken such an extremely conservative, neo-Platonic position that it appears to wrap around and look liberal, ala Dave Bergland's political Libertarian analysis. But maybe you had your tongue in your cheek?

I beg your pardon! My position is strictly zoological.

As to this notion of wrapping around from one side of the political spectrum to the other, I first noticed this when I started getting into anarcho-primitivism (a "post-left" political position which advocates for reactionary technological change), and found that a strict application of the analysis led me to paleo-conservative techno-utopianism (an "old right" political position which advocates social salvation through unrestricted technological development). It was about this time that I started to lose interest in "the revolution," eventually resigning myself to matters of the Spirit

 

[Richard Stanley]

I beg your pardon! My position is strictly zoological.

There is no such thing. Bees do it, birds do it, even educated priests do it.

Quantum physics, and Culture that is. Your ideal would require some rather massive coercion and the hormone infusions done at such an early stage is tantamount to circumcision on steroids.

Furthermore, I believe in the concept of (B)alance, the real lesson behind the concept of Yin and Yang. The reason we are so FU is this loss of balance garnered by such as Nicene Xianity (neo-Augustinianism). Humans are sexual beings, and as intelligent ones we should not be numbing ourselves on the narcotics of pure Spiritualism or Materialism, but learning how to integrate the two.

Furtherfurthermore (this is a new word coined by ME on this date of 8/14/2016), Augustinianism is a barely veiled form of cynical elite caste organizing of the so-called oligarchs that we rail about so much here. Augustus formulated Christian Family Values, but refused to follow them himself, aka "Do as I Say, ...". People who are the elites or those who suck better at their fraternity teats, are usually in favor of forms of such hierarchies.

Of course, such as De Vere and Evola asserted that there were indeed enlightened caste systems, and it seems that these once allowed individuals to move up and down in these castes as they merited (not by birthright). Your system (did you give a name to it?), at least, allows for some upward mobility, but not before being injected and gender steered artificially, the long term consequences we don't really know.

Furtherfurtherfurthermore (ditto), technology is inexorably eliminating the need for large amounts of workerbeechimpigs (wbcpgs) sweating away at the gold mines and such.

What happens to rogue wbcpgs who get in their mind to take elicit hormone therapy to upgrade their class? Can queens and husbands be trans? .....

 

[Marcilla Smith]

Your ideal would require some rather massive coercion and the hormone infusions done at such an early stage is tantamount to circumcision on steroids.

This is an "objective" analysis, not a prescription. I'll give that below.

And if you'll excuse me for splitting hairs, I would think less like circumcision than orchidectomy/oopherectomy

Furthermore, I believe in the concept of (B)alance, the real lesson behind the concept of Yin and Yang. The reason we are so FU is this loss of balance garnered by such as Nicene Xianity (neo-Augustinianism). Humans are sexual beings, and as intelligent ones we should not be numbing ourselves on the narcotics of pure Spiritualism or Materialism, but learning how to integrate the two.

That certainly sounds very "liberal" and just New Age enough to be reasonable. However, I would submit that the flesh will seek its own balance, and we are better off to mortify it to the extent we can, as people of the Spirit. Or to put this in the modern language of science: sublimate the libidinal drive to focus into our creative outlets our pro-creative energies.

Furtherfurtherfurthermore (ditto), technology is inexorably eliminating the need for large amounts of workerbeechimpigs (wbcpgs) sweating away at the gold mines and such.

Which would be great under the wbcpgs (where did you even get all those letters from?) system (as you call it), or simply chimpigbee system, since this would mean more time spent on drone r&r

What happens to rogue wbcpgs who get in their mind to take elicit hormone therapy to upgrade their class? Can queens and husbands be trans? .....

As to #1, how can anything be rogue within the hivemind. As to #2, by current standards, all chimpigbees would be trans in some sense. I can't envision how someone could be a queen without a way to carry a child, but that may be an option for anyone with sufficiently advanced medical technology.

IN ANY EVENT... with regard to how we would upgrade from our current society, I think we would first need to try to create greater systemic integrity where we currently have systemic alienation. For example, replace the various national fiat currencies that represent abstract, arbitrary, and fluctuating value with a currency that represents a literal, material, and universal commodity such as the kilowatt-hour. Also, we could replace this silly reality television series "Who Wants to be a Presidential Candidate Idol with the Stars?" with a very straightforward demand that if anyone is going to be the chimpig with the most kilowatt-hours in the Energy Bank of America, Mr. Buffett, well then you don't get to just appear before Congress to castigate them for their unwillingness to put their money where their mouth is, you actually have to be willing to run the country (since you're the one with the most power to actually do anything worthwhile to change it.

But take anything I say with a grain of salt. After all, I got fired from a part time position as a cleaning lady earlier this year

 

[Jerry Russell]

For example, replace the various national fiat currencies that represent abstract, arbitrary, and fluctuating value with a currency that represents a literal, material, and universal commodity such as the kilowatt-hour.

Why would we have to settle on one particular commodity? I would think that consenting adults entering into a long-term contract, could choose any commodity that seems most appropriate. Labor hours, tons of steel, ounces of gold, whatever. Whereas for transactions, it really doesn't matter much what currency is used. From whatever you're using as your long-term store of value, just go to the exchange and get what you need.

Mr. Buffett... you're the one with the most power to actually do anything worthwhile to change it.

Money is only one measure of power. The Pope could rightly ask, "Mr. Buffett, how many members has your congregation?"

 

[Jerry Russell]

I got fired from a part time position as a cleaning lady earlier this year

I once got fired from a volunteer position chopping carrots for a soup kitchen. In retrospect, I can't say it was the worst thing that ever happened to me.