Paneuropean Union Salve white black Asian mix up for the world and you and me

Richard Stanley

Administrator
I believe Richard is committing the logical fallacy of guilt by association. In other words, the issues Richard brings up seem to me to be intended to cast a cloud over My intentions only because dukes material that Richard. suspects as being racist.

This is not the analytic path, is it?

However, I still see your approach as guilt by association in that you are bringing up material I did not simply to associate me with it, not because i avocated it.

Moreover, where in the video was there some material that expresses the racism you seem to be claiming?
I never referenced the video Loren, I mentioned the text that you quoted, and then you went off on me incorrectly for the original quote, merely because the software has you being the author of it. You force me to resolve the problems for your laziness?

Loren Hough quoted the following: "David Duke’s appearance on the Alex Jones show was an incredibly important moment for pro-White and pro-European causes. ..."
In my world these terms are racist codes, but I understand that racists don't believe that they are racist.

Need I say more? OK, I will. You seem to be raising quite a stink when you were only asked to provide some context for what you posted. This whole matter is your fault.

I believe that Loren is committing a logical fallacy by shifting the subject. How is your being asked a question that derived from your laziness, to be generous, an error on my part? To wit, Richard asked Loren: "I'm a little confused by all of this Loren. Are you saying that you are a White Supremacist and such?"

Instead you could have answered the question, and complied with the request for how you relate to all of this. But, as with every time you get some criticism we get to listen to you whine about being persecuted, and make excuses because of your 'issues'. Better yet, you could have avoided the whole business altogether by simply posting properly to begin with. IMO, you've been given way too much latitude after having been warned about your sloppy attributions and such, some of which make it appear as plagiarism, other times as incoherent babbling. Whether it is your intention or not, your being the most prolific poster here serves to marginalize our efforts, but as you say, you ARE NOT in favor of Jerry's and my position. So just a coincidence I'm sure.

As to your raising the Protocols here, how stupid would a bunch of Jews have to be to put their collective Zion name to that work? Instead, if you had done your homework you would realize that the most likely source was the Jesuits. Or are you going to say this is reverse Machiavellianism at work? They wrote this document up, proudly put their name on it, and leaked it out ... in the hopes that people would believe that someone else wrote it and tried to blame them. Didn't work too well.

But if the Protocols are legit as to their authorship, as you seem to claim, then are you saying that all the other (non-Jewish) players (that you allow for) are no better than their pawns as many claim? If so, then I would suggest that your work is done here. And you've got a lot of 61 year old seed yet to sow.

What about the House of Ephraim, or is that a trick question in your opinion?
 

Jerry Russell

Administrator
Staff member
not true
Joe 1st called you stalker not me ..
I don't see that it's relevant who said what first. The point is, you agreed with it.

You can post stuff there on "subject".fukushima nuke plants On my site you are always welcome. What you posted was a attack on me about ww2 death camps.
I think we all share a hypothesis that the same elite who created WW2 death camps, are also responsible (directly or indirectly) for bringing us the Fukushima disaster. Accordingly, I suggested that the discussion of WW2 death camps is absolutely on topic at your site.

Joe asked you some question about your logic that you never answered.
You quoted Joe's private email without his permission. But my answer to Joe, which I discussed with him on the phone, is this: guilt by association (or the related concept, the ad hominem "fallacy") is not a fallacy per se, nor is it a proof of anything, but rather it is a heuristic.

That is, in this particular case, if several self-acclaimed racists gather together with another person to make a film acclaiming Hitler as a great leader, it certainly suggests that the entire group is racist.

And if that film is linked on our site without any comment, casual visitors might feel justified in assuming that we also are racists. Indeed, if Google finds too many such links on our site, they might blacklist us as a bunch of racists.
 

Richard Stanley

Administrator
It's interesting to me that there seems to be no 'debate' going on at radiationdebate.com, or even dialog for that matter. It is all Loren, except for Jerry's one 'debated' post, and one other's. Having no dialog at the forum there almost makes it appear the work of a 'normal' person, except for more of the cut and paste magic displayed here. For example, the text in red below is pasted from the Biofuels web page, at least he provided the source page further below. But if someone doesn't take the time to click on that link they might assume that Loren wrote the whole thing.

here is what I am doing in Fiji

http://www.biofuelsonline.net/

Media on Biofuels International

Biofuels International is an international company focused with the sole objective of implementing significant renewable energy projects to replace the worlds reliance on fossil fuel energy.

Biofuels International has partnered with Bio-Agrotech to develop plantations throughout Fiji and Tonga using patented hybrid castor seeds in the majority of its plantations partnerships (including intercropping in the pongamia plantations) to bring the most innovative and pioneering advancements for crop yields for the development of bio-diesel production and refining.

Biofuels International on October 28th, 2008 announced through a joint press conference with Fiji Government and the Department of Energy the worlds largest plantation project for renewable energy to be implemented. More than 500,000 hectares of "Pongamia Pinnata trees", Castor and other varieties of oil producing crops to be planted throughout the Fiji Islands. (click here to view Fiji TV press conference of Biofuels International)

Fiji Government will assist in the education of small farmers for the implementation of various crops that produce oil. This oil when pressed yields a clean burning energy source that powers diesel engines The oil produces zero emissions (zero hydro-carbons) as well as lubricates motors far better than its petro based equivalent. More horsepower and smoother running engines are the results of these renewable energy crops.


see this below; I work with the gibbons family consulting and have been made a partner.

just saved them 2 million a year in cost and made the project much more efficient! good o Kansas California know how

they are way out front with this and the whole world is watching

glad to let you all in on this

LH

http://radiationdebate.com/forum/fukushima-radiation/here-is-what-i-am-doing-in-fiji-loren-hough-safe-in-the-south

Congrats for making partner with the Gibbons by saving Biofuels $2 million by implementing 'Kansas California know how'. Did the latter Cali 'know how' derive from that medical marijuana co-op you were allegedly involved with, and that missing 100 lbs? Funny that the guy making that allegation said you couldn't grow icicles, presumably at the North Pole. Oh well, Global Warming.

[Ed. note -- these allegations Rick is referring to, can be found at:

http://www.ripoffreport.com/r/Loren-Byron-Hough/Palo-Alto-California-94301/Loren-Byron-Hough-Ripped-off-Medical-Marijuana-Co-Op-Palo-Alto-California-1138468

Obviously, we have no idea whether or not these allegations are true.]



More importantly, is the irony of being accused of errors in logic by someone so wrapped up in internal contradiction, chasing from one guru to the next, and parroting others info as if it were his own. So after all the Loren huff and puffery about how evil the Mother Church is and the Jesu, we now find that Jerry and I must hold onto the central divisive paradigm that defines Nicene Xianity, namely that the Jews are out to get us. Ironically, the new face of this is that even though we find the first iteration, the killing of Jesus of Nazareth was a hoax, but now they really are coming after us all merely to get revenge for all they have had to put up with.

This despite all the data and analysis that Jerry and I assembled, and of which I am guessing you haven't taken the time to read, much less all the referenced material. We have a lot more, but instead we have to babysit the squawking parrot, squawking about his hit count - to pages that are so rambling in content and explanation that the casual viewer can make little of.

As I have told Joe separately, it seems to be no big deal, to the Jesuits at least, to reveal the true nature of Christ. The happy alumni of Jesuit Georgetown University, Kenneth Atchity, still devout according to his claims, was happy to reveal in his history based novel, The Messiah Matrix, and on his web site, that Octavian Augustus Caesar was indeed the first prototype of Christ, cryptically linked to the old Roman god Jasius by Virgil's 4th Eclogue where all the attributes of the Prince of Peace of the New Age are listed.

Just as with politics, where at the highest national level, all the superficial and synthetic divisions blur into obscurity, the same is true of Christianity's and Judaism's highest levels, but for some reason you are pushing your rhetorical rope uphill, telling us why the white supremicists (however they want to term themselves) are right while claiming you're not of their ilk.

In any case, I've been hoping that Joe and Jerry would do a show on The Messiah Matrix, and maybe you could do some homework on this by visiting the Jesuit center in Suva, and asking them what they think of the premise, and Joe's works for that matter. Being from Kansas you could pretend to be a concerned evangelical or Pentecostal as a cover story.
 
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Jerry Russell

Administrator
Staff member
In my world these terms are racist codes, but I understand that racists don't believe that they are racist.
I want to second that view. Although subtle distinctions may be made among the various types of racists, nevertheless there are also important commonalities.

White supremacism is the view that "whites" are superior to other races such as blacks, and as such, whites should rightfully maintain the colonialist institutions which have been used to oppress other races and keep them in economic subjugation and slavery. While few people today would openly admit to such an ideology, it has been very openly stated in the not-so-distant past, as discussed in Wiki's excellent article:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_supremacy

Today, I think it's much more common for religious, cultural or class differences to be used as a proxy for racial differences per se. The argument will be made that white Christian culture is superior to Islamic culture, or Mexican culture, for various reasons such as superior religious doctrines, superior scientific and economic achievement, and so forth.

Michael Kimmel, in an article entitled "America’s angriest white men: Up close with racism, rage and Southern supremacy" noticed this when he wrote:

http://www.salon.com/2013/11/17/americas_angriest_white_men_up_close_with_racism_rage_and_southern_supremacy/

In the United States, class is often a proxy for race. When politicians speak of the “urban poor,” we know it’s a code for black people. When they talk about “welfare queens,” we know the race of that woman driving the late-model Cadillac. In polite society, racism remains hidden behind a screen spelled CLASS.
Whether the argument is based on race per se, or whether it's on cultural and religious grounds, the end result seems to be similar: the promotion of endless war and perpetuation of colonialist institutions.

Paradoxically, as Wiki points out, racist white supremacist rage is often directed against Catholics and/or Jews, even though both groups are basically "whites", genetically speaking. (As we've discussed here, the Ashkenazi are mostly Eastern European and from the Caucasus Mtn. region, although with some admixture of Palestinian heritage as well.)

The website "The Daily Stormer" with its slogan "Total Fascism" is, I believe, a classic White Supremacist site. Its webmaster, Andrew Anglin, is now saying that people won't read long articles -- but back in the day when he could trouble himself to write more than a few words, here's what he said, as captured by archive.org.

https://web.archive.org/web/20140510060406/http://www.totalfascism.com/a-massive-confusing-and-impossible-jewish-conspiracy/

The genetic nature of the Jew is that of a predatory parasite, and it is hardwired into the psychology of each and every one of them to find weaknesses in their host societies and exploit them, both for personal gain and the gain of their race. ... It is impossible to know what goes through the mind of a Jew, as they are so entirely alien to us in every conceivable way. Asking what a Jew is thinking when he robs and abuses us is like asking what a mosquito is thinking when he drinks our blood. We must cease in our attempts to find a recognizable human pattern to their behavior, for none exists. They do not need to meet secretly in order to attack us, any more than a swarm of termites must meet secretly before destroying the frame of a house.
Hopefully even Loren will be able to recognize that genetic science does not support these conclusions?

To be sure, David Duke would be the first to disclaim material such as this. He calls himself a "white nationalist", and his website is subtitled "For Human Freedom and Diversity". Race nationalists say that every race deserves to preserve itself as a pure entity, each race to its own nation and geographical locality, and each with its own culture. Duke says he doesn't want to dominate or harm people of other races, he just wants them to leave white people alone.

My own opinion is that race nationalism is highly problematic on multiple grounds. First of all, how are you going to determine the distribution of racial homelands? National and racial boundaries, which were never clear to begin with, have shifted many times over the course of recorded history as a result of migrations and conquests.

If we are going to restore Palestine to the Jews, shouldn't America be restored to Native Americans, to be consistent? But you will never see a Zionist make that argument, nor a White nationalist.

As to the idea of "racial purity", the toothpaste is truly out of the tube. Inter-racial couplings have been happening at an accelerating rate, and the only way to stop such couplings would be to put the "race nationalists" in charge of choosing everyone's marriage partner, or at least establishing the permissible mating subsets of the human race. That's what Hitler meant by "eugenics". Again, you won't often find Race Nationalists following their premises to their logical conclusion.

Of course, Zionism is a form of Race Nationalism, and I believe it deserves to be criticized as such.

Race Nationalism also ignores the fact that today's situation, in which the white countries of America and Europe are still far wealthier than the nations of Africa and Asia, is an outcome of centuries of colonialism. There is never any proposal as to how this can be addressed in an equitable way, going forward.

Finally, the Race Nationalists seem strangely blind to issues of elite White dominance. Kimmel's excellent article hit the nail on the head:

On the extreme Right, by contrast, race is a proxy for class. Among the white supremacists, when they speak of race consciousness, defending white people, protesting for equal rights for white people, they actually don’t mean all white people. They don’t mean Wall Street bankers and lawyers, though they are pretty much entirely white and male. They don’t mean white male doctors, or lawyers, or architects, or even engineers. They don’t mean the legions of young white hipster guys, or computer geeks flocking to the Silicon Valley, or the legions of white preppies in their boat shoes and seersucker jackets “interning” at white-shoe law firms in major cities. Not at all. They mean middle-and working-class white people. Race consciousness is actually class consciousness without actually having to “see” class. “Race blindness” leads working-class people to turn right; if they did see class, they’d turn left and make common cause with different races in the same economic class.​
 
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Richard Stanley

Administrator
Well done.

In Black Athena V1 Bernal pointed out that prior to the philosophical formulation of Romanticism (sponsored by the Hanoverian George II) there is very little mention of racial animus in the cultural or historical corpus of Europe. Prior to this time slavery and/or serfdom was not directed in a 'racial' manner as much as to the various underclasses (virtual castes), albeit that we believe there was indeed a genetic elite component.

This elite component is quietly recognized in Christianity as the 'Elect', and in the biblical formulation of Predestination of the Elect. All of which was whitewashed, first by the Catholic restrictions on the laity reading of the Bible; and later by watering down the translations and foundational Statement of Faith documents of the various Protestant 'Low (class) Churches'. The very first Baptist S0F was botched by including reference to Predestination, and had to be redacted. Can't have the hoi polloi believe there is a free pass to salvation can we?

If we are going to restore Palestine to the Jews, shouldn't America be restored to Native Americans, to be consistent? But you will never see a Zionist make that argument, nor a White nationalist.
Or, how about restoring Palestine to the Palestinians? Of whom Israeli Ashkenazi Jew Shlomo Sand (The Invention of the Jewish People) argues are most likely 'remnants' descended from the original Jews of Titus Christ's time.

Paradoxically, as Wiki points out, racist white supremacist rage is often directed against Catholics and/or Jews, even though both groups are basically "whites", genetically speaking.
This is true from a strictly USA perspective as, of course, Euro-Catholicism directed the very same thing towards Central and South America, Africa, and Asia. All with the papacy divvying up the balance of the colonial land (not claimed by the English Crown) between various Catholic realms.

Race Nationalism also ignores the fact that today's situation, in which the white countries of America and Europe are still far wealthier than the nations of Africa and Asia, is an outcome of centuries of colonialism. There is never any proposal as to how this can be addressed in an equitable way, going forward.
This is exceptionally ironic in that this White colonialism was Justified, not only by the Romantic Movement, but by Hebraic religious Providential appeals to the genocidal, ethnic cleansing Conquest of the Hebrew Promised Land in the Judaic OT. This Land Is Your Land, This Land Is My Land, from the Nile to the Euphrates ...

There was a former US Presidential candidate who offered a good start on the problem Jerry. Unfortunately it would require killing too many entitled sacred cows, here and elsewhere.

To finish, we are also discussing the central motivation for the elites to reframe everyone else's minds, such that they can get the various subclasses to focus on each other as the cause of their immediate problems. The descendants of American Black slaves celebrate Moses for freeing the slaves, ignoring that Joseph enslaved all of Egypt in cahoots with 'Pharaoh'. This same Bible was then used to justify their ancestor's slavery. And the white South is still smarting over this 'righteous' and divine Lost Cause.
 
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lorenhough

Well-Known Member
Well done.

In Black Athena V1 Bernal pointed out that prior to the philosophical formulation of Romanticism (sponsored by the Hanoverian George II) there is very little mention of racial animus in the cultural or historical corpus of Europe. Prior to this time slavery and/or serfdom was not directed in a 'racial' manner as much as to the various underclasses (virtual castes), albeit that we believe there was indeed a genetic elite component.

This elite component is quietly recognized in Christianity as the 'Elect', and in the biblical formulation of Predestination of the Elect. All of which was whitewashed, first by the Catholic restrictions on the laity reading of the Bible; and later by watering down the translations and foundational Statement of Faith documents of the various Protestant 'Low (class) Churches'. The very first Baptist S0F was botched by including reference to Predestination, and had to be redacted. Can't have the hoi polloi believe there is a free pass to salvation can we?


Or, how about restoring Palestine to the Palestinians? Of whom Israeli Ashkenazi Jew Shlomo Sand (The Invention of the Jewish People) argues are most likely 'remnants' descended from the original Jews of Titus Christ's time.


This is true from a strictly USA perspective as, of course, Euro-Catholicism directed the very same thing towards Central and South America, Africa, and Asia. All with the papacy divvying up the balance of the colonial land (not claimed by the English Crown) between various Catholic realms.


This is exceptionally ironic in that this White colonialism was Justified, not only by the Romantic Movement, but by Hebraic religious Providential appeals to the genocidal, ethnic cleansing Conquest of the Hebrew Promised Land in the Judaic OT. This Land Is Your Land, This Land Is My Land, from the Nile to the Euphrates ...

There was a former US Presidential candidate who offered a good start on the problem Jerry. Unfortunately it would require killing too many entitled sacred cows, here and elsewhere.

To finish, we are also discussing the central motivation for the elites to reframe everyone else's minds, such that they can get the various subclasses to focus on each other as the cause of their immediate problems. The descendants of American Black slaves celebrate Moses for freeing the slaves, ignoring that Joseph enslaved all of Egypt in cahoots with 'Pharaoh'. This same Bible was then used to justify their ancestor's slavery. And the white South is still smarting over this 'righteous' and divine Lost Cause.
Jerry and Richard thank you for your comments here, please for give me for being defensive, and will be open to your desire for me to to better, in posting. Etc.
 

lorenhough

Well-Known Member
It's interesting to me that there seems to be no 'debate' going on at radiationdebate.com, or even dialog for that matter. It is all Loren, except for Jerry's one 'debated' post, and one other's. Having no dialog at the forum there almost makes it appear the work of a 'normal' person, except for more of the cut and paste magic displayed here. For example, the text in red below is pasted from the Biofuels web page, at least he provided the source page further below. But if someone doesn't take the time to click on that link they might assume that Loren wrote the whole thing.

here is what I am doing in Fiji

http://www.biofuelsonline.net/

Media on Biofuels International

Biofuels International is an international company focused with the sole objective of implementing significant renewable energy projects to replace the worlds reliance on fossil fuel energy.

Biofuels International has partnered with Bio-Agrotech to develop plantations throughout Fiji and Tonga using patented hybrid castor seeds in the majority of its plantations partnerships (including intercropping in the pongamia plantations) to bring the most innovative and pioneering advancements for crop yields for the development of bio-diesel production and refining.

Biofuels International on October 28th, 2008 announced through a joint press conference with Fiji Government and the Department of Energy the worlds largest plantation project for renewable energy to be implemented. More than 500,000 hectares of "Pongamia Pinnata trees", Castor and other varieties of oil producing crops to be planted throughout the Fiji Islands. (click here to view Fiji TV press conference of Biofuels International)

Fiji Government will assist in the education of small farmers for the implementation of various crops that produce oil. This oil when pressed yields a clean burning energy source that powers diesel engines The oil produces zero emissions (zero hydro-carbons) as well as lubricates motors far better than its petro based equivalent. More horsepower and smoother running engines are the results of these renewable energy crops.


see this below; I work with the gibbons family consulting and have been made a partner.

just saved them 2 million a year in cost and made the project much more efficient! good o Kansas California know how

they are way out front with this and the whole world is watching

glad to let you all in on this

LH

http://radiationdebate.com/forum/fukushima-radiation/here-is-what-i-am-doing-in-fiji-loren-hough-safe-in-the-south

Congrats for making partner with the Gibbons by saving Biofuels $2 million by implementing 'Kansas California know how'. Did the latter Cali 'know how' derive from that medical marijuana co-op you were allegedly involved with, and that missing 100 lbs? Funny that the guy making that allegation said you couldn't grow icicles, presumably at the North Pole. Oh well, Global Warming.

More importantly, is the irony of being accused of errors in logic by someone so wrapped up in internal contradiction, chasing from one guru to the next, and parroting others info as if it were his own. So after all the Loren huff and puffery about how evil the Mother Church is and the Jesu, we now find that Jerry and I must hold onto the central divisive paradigm that defines Nicene Xianity, namely that the Jews are out to get us. Ironically, the new face of this is that even though we find the first iteration, the killing of Jesus of Nazareth was a hoax, but now they really are coming after us all merely to get revenge for all they have had to put up with.

This despite all the data and analysis that Jerry and I assembled, and of which I am guessing you haven't taken the time to read, much less all the referenced material. We have a lot more, but instead we have to babysit the squawking parrot, squawking about his hit count - to pages that are so rambling in content and explanation that the casual viewer can make little of.

As I have told Joe separately, it seems to be no big deal, to the Jesuits at least, to reveal the true nature of Christ. The happy alumni of Jesuit Georgetown University, Kenneth Atchity, still devout according to his claims, was happy to reveal in his history based novel, The Messiah Matrix, and on his web site, that Octavian Augustus Caesar was indeed the first prototype of Christ, cryptically linked to the old Roman god Jasius by Virgil's 4th Eclogue where all the attributes of the Prince of Peace of the New Age are listed.

Just as with politics, where at the highest national level, all the superficial and synthetic divisions blur into obscurity, the same is true of Christianity's and Judaism's highest levels, but for some reason you are pushing your rhetorical rope uphill, telling us why the white supremicists (however they want to term themselves) are right while claiming you're not of their ilk.

In any case, I've been hoping that Joe and Jerry would do a show on The Messiah Matrix, and maybe you could do some homework on this by visiting the Jesuit center in Suva, and asking them what they think of the premise, and Joe's works for that matter. Being from Kansas you could pretend to be a concerned evangelical or Pentecostal as a cover story.
I just saw this!!! Charging me with intentions that I never meet. Bio fuels, As to say I wrote something ..was never my intention etc.
Is just dirty..the way iam being treated here.
There nothing to say when people post lies and make up stories and then pretend that I answered it and not give a name of who was saying the lies about me they want to make hard for me to go to another country and I was being black mailed by guys who owed me $... I have witness..
You by bring it up doesn't make it any better.. Looks like you are trying to hurt me. Sorry it has come to that !!
Because of that know I am gone from this site .. Please take down my membership. Be happy,

Jerry I do ask you to please take down this thread .. And any other of my stuff you don't like, co2 etc. Thanks
 
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Jerry Russell

Administrator
Staff member
I also recommend this excellent article by David G. Lewis, a Native American complaining, among other things, that presumably well-meaning white people built a totem pole at Oregon Country Fair without verifying that the design was accurate. A thoughtless insult, following very real and continuing assaults.

https://ndnhistoryresearch.wordpress.com/2016/03/11/an-issue-of-cultural-appropriation-in-context/

Over the past five centuries every manner of negative action was taken against Indigenous peoples. Murder, genocide, holocaust, slavery, indentured servitude, theft, extortion, kidnapping, deliberately introducing diseases, wiping out the food sources of the people, total war, razing of cities and civilizations, and the list goes on. Then once everything was taken and under the control of the “civilized” peoples, they even took away history and identity. Assimilation and termination of tribal societies caused erasure of histories and people’s past identity. Its been a tough five centuries for indigenous peoples.

In Oregon, genocide and dispossession of land was the rule, tribes were removed to reservations to both save them from the attacking Americans, and to get them out of the most prized lands that the settlers wanted. In the 1850s nearly daily schooner loads of miners arrived in the area ports. During this time the US regular army were actually the good guys, with General John E. Wool working to save the Indians from marauding whites. These miners went into the country to seek their golden fortunes and would attack any tribes that stood in their way. and when gold was not found then they could make depredation claims to the territorial governments to recoup their losses of supplies and ammunition from killing Indians. Death came easy to native people in those days. There were no laws in the land, the army could not cover the whole territory to impose the peace, and would not hold Americans accountable for their actions.

This was the American West, a world of Cowboys and Indians, where daily, weekly and monthly conflicts between greedy fortune seekers and the tribes caused a nearly constant series of battles. This era lasted until at least 1900 (and probably beyond), with a series of “Indian” wars, in all cases the wars were caused by the desires of the Americans to take what the Indians had, land and resources.

But did the war end the the 20th century? Many look to the fishing and water conflicts and say no, Indian peoples are still fighting the war for their land, resources and life-ways from Americans that wanted to put dams into prime fishing areas, to extract minerals from the land, to run pipelines across our lands, to dump uranium on our land, to log our forests, and to take our lands for cattle grazing. All manner of ways that Indian lands continued to be coveted by the Americans, and then there came to be new inventive appropriations as well.

Our identities. Not only are we not allowed to be Indians, and the federal government worked hard to eliminate our identities through boarding schools, but now we have to fend off waves of appropriators. People who choose to take aspects of Native identity and culture and use it as if its their own. From mascots to cultural appropriators, we are now constantly calling foul on people who abuse and try to steal our cultures and identities. Its racism, its white privilege, its the ultimate invasion of who we are as people.​
 

Jerry Russell

Administrator
Staff member
I just saw this!!! Charging me with intentions that I never meet. Bio fuels, As to say I wrote something ..was never my intention etc.
I don't know if Richard meant to imply that you have any bad intentions when you skim others' material without quotation marks, and often without attribution. He's only stating that it can have the effect of confusing people, whether that's intentional or not.

There nothing to say when people post lies and make up stories and then pretend that I answered it and not give a name of who was saying the lies about me they want to make hard for me to go to another country and I was being black mailed by guys who owed me $... I have witness..
You by bring it up doesn't make it any better.. Looks like you are trying to hurt me. Sorry it has come to that !!
Loren, I don't see how Rick is trying to hurt you, he's just asking for explanations. I think the readers have a right to know that these allegations exist. We're giving you the opportunity to post a coherent explanation of your side of the story -- you could do that either here or at ripoffreport.com where the allegations appear. But what you're saying doesn't make any sense.

What lies have been told, and who has been telling them? Someone was trying to blackmail you -- why? How did that work?

Because of that know I am gone from this site ..
I can't speak for Rick, but as far as I'm concerned, you are welcome to post here if you can comply with the site policies.

Jerry I do ask you to please take down this thread .. And any other of my stuff you don't like, co2 etc. Thanks
As I've mentioned before, this is a conversational forum, and it isn't necessarily fair to other posters if we take down the comments they've been responding too. I think that rule applies to this thread, which Rick and I have spent several hours researching and replying to.

However, I will review your posts for compliance with our site rules, and take down any materials that seem to be egregious violations. If there are any other specific items you'd like taken down, please let me know.
 

Jerry Russell

Administrator
Staff member
Loren, I just went through this thread and deleted what I would view as excess / unwarranted quoting of lengthy passages from other websites. Let me know if this meets your objectives regarding your request to "please take down this thread". What's left, I think, is an interesting discussion. One hundred seventy-seven clicks so far! At least somebody out there thinks it's interesting...
 

Richard Stanley

Administrator
I'm reminded of an old Mad Magazine cartoon. In this case the instructor at the Fan Repair School tells his students to look closely as he turns on the fan on the table in front of them. The next scene is outside of the Fan Repair School and one sees all the student's noses go flying out the door into the street. The text bubble has the teacher saying: "But not that close."

This is the trouble with this kind of investigative pursuit, looking under the carpet at several thousand years of layers upon layers of nasty crap. This is the great salvic and redemptive value of Abrahamic religion, or in our case, NeoChristianity. Here we can set an arbitrary boundary on what we want to examine, or not, and then Move On. As long as the God sanctioned state and the clergy (or NeoChristian equivalent) grant their blessings then all ongoing and future erstwhile sins are ... not really sins, but rather heroic virtues.

Lost sheep believers and non-believers suffering from cognitive dissonance to the official virtuous image will be managed by various well honed means, e.g. paranoiac fear porn and other such diversions. Eventually they will cave and rejoin the happy flock.

NeoChristianity is the wing of Postflaviana that merely wants to strip Jesus from the underlying strata of the glorious divine Caesars and sweep the balance of dirt back under the rug. Then we can keep the vengeful beni-Judah/Gomer (Jezreel) as the institutional scapegoats that they were designed to be and absolve ourselves, once more, of all non-sins. So we can restore the good ol days of Pax Americana and once more live happily ever after.

Ironically, the Nazis wanted to keep Jesus and somehow remove the underlying Judaism, hence their proposed Positive Christianity. Besides trying to deal with the Jewish Question, they needed more Living Room to the Slavic East to sow their triumphal seed.

Call me cynical, but I have been told by the pontifex jester of NeoChristianity to move on before. Look closely, ... but not that closely.
 

Jerry Russell

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If not, we are just engaging in endless Mobius Strip Onanism. (Hopefully this phraseology will not offend Saint Loren as my previous reference to such behavior did.)
Saint Jerry was a little concerned too back then, I'm trying to keep this place family safe. This latest reference is sufficiently obscure that I trust it will go right over the children's head, so I guess this is OK....
 
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Jerry Russell

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This morning on the podcast, I got rather confused and tongue-tied trying to defend the proposition that the Old Testament Jews are in a scapegoat role. I was able to explain that they are the targets of the curse against Rebekah, promising that they will be hated. And under the Romans, they certainly were hated, scapegoated and marginalized, along with suffering crushing military defeats. In the Christian model, they are Christ Killers. In medieval times, they were confined to the ghetto. Under Hitler, they were deported or killed.

But I was stumped for good examples of the Jews being placed in a scapegoat role in the Old Testament. They were endlessly blamed for backsliding into Baal worship -- but that's different from being pure and good, and yet suffering great loss. One might mention Job, but he's more of a parable than a concrete geo-political situation.

So when do you think this Jew = Scapegoat model was developed?
 

Richard Stanley

Administrator
Saint Jerry was a little concerned too back then, I'm trying to keep this place family safe. This latest reference is sufficiently obscure that I trust it will go right over the children's head, so I guess this is OK....
He was actually more concerned with the implications of my using that jerky phrase. But, in any case, as relates to my comments in this thread, I never got an answer there regarding what cultural baseline of wonderfulness we were really being degraded from. Didn't we all love our Cowboys and Indians movies, and glorious war movies and such?
 
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Richard Stanley

Administrator
This morning on the podcast, I got rather confused and tongue-tied trying to defend the proposition that the Old Testament Jews are in a scapegoat role. I was able to explain that they are the targets of the curse against Rebekah, promising that they will be hated. And under the Romans, they certainly were hated, scapegoated and marginalized, along with suffering crushing military defeats. In the Christian model, they are Christ Killers. In medieval times, they were confined to the ghetto. Under Hitler, they were deported or killed.

But I was stumped for good examples of the Jews being placed in a scapegoat role in the Old Testament. They were endlessly blamed for backsliding into Baal worship -- but that's different from being pure and good, and yet suffering great loss. One might mention Job, but he's more of a parable than a concrete geo-political situation.

So when do you think this Jew = Scapegoat model was developed?
Uhmmmm, with Judah. In the narrative, the fourth son of the hated wife, Leah. He was the one who wanted to make money from selling Joseph (rather than killing him), the first son of the loved wife. I discussed this in the post, and related it to Judas, selling Jesus out for some coins. Then there is 12 tribes, 12 disciples, ...

If one wants to ridiculously take this story as real fact, then we might indeed have a problem. The trouble is that it is obviously created for the effect it delivers, as is most every other narrative treatment of a member of this tribe. That secularists are still willing to buy into this construct is rather sardonic. But, like I've said above, religious or not, it yet makes us all feel warm and fuzzy about ourselves.

Hilariously, DeVere went so far as to mock the notion that Hitler was an Aryan, albeit for slightly different reasons than I do, but it still makes the greater point about what BS all this is.
 

Jerry Russell

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Uhmmmm, with Judah. In the narrative, the fourth son of the hated wife, Leah. He was the one who wanted to make money from selling Joseph (rather than killing him), the first son of the loved wife. I discussed this in the post, and related it to Judas, selling Jesus out for some coins.
I see that Judah has thereby committed a vile act that would make him a worthy target of hate and scape-goating, but where is the punishment meted out in terms of setbacks suffered by Judah's descendants? Does the punishment basically wait until the fall of Judah to the neo-Babylonians?
 

Jerry Russell

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Staff member
I never got an answer there regarding what cultural baseline of wonderfulness we were really being degraded from.
Perhaps the 'baseline of wonderfulness' needs to be interpreted tribally, from the point of view of 'White' Americans. The days of Cowboys and Indians might not have been so great for the Indians, but better for the Cowboys. And in those war movies, the Americans were always winning, which sure beats losing. And even if the democratic institutions of that era existed ultimately at the pleasure of the elites (who always kept the ability to take away the punch bowl if necessary), nevertheless those institutions brought 'middle-class' Americans into a safe, protected zone. And the "leave it to Beaver" family culture may have been confining, but again it created a sense of safety.

Especially for 'working class' Americans, I think there's a real and justified sense of loss, as well as a fear that things could get a lot worse fast.
 

Richard Stanley

Administrator
I see that Judah has thereby committed a vile act that would make him a worthy target of hate and scape-goating, but where is the punishment meted out in terms of setbacks suffered by Judah's descendants? Does the punishment basically wait until the fall of Judah to the neo-Babylonians?
Good question, though I don't know that there needs to be an exact answer here. The whole OT narrative is one about a general failure to abide by God's demands, and thus God repeatedly sends one punishment after the other. Even though God has already forewarned Abraham that his Hebrew seed will be obliged to spend 4 generations, or 400 hundred years (take your pick) in enslavement in Egypt, it is Judah's selling of Joseph that enables the tribes to end up there as slaves. Else Joseph would have been dead, and thus could not welcome his brothers to Egypt - so they could become slaves. Does this work for you?
 
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