"New Song for the New Age"

Jerry Russell

Administrator
Staff member
OMG, thumbs up from Marcilla! Maybe she's ready to walk the plank after all?

Oh, that opened a memory cell, today is the anniversary of my becoming a Doctor of Divinity in that church, many years ago.
Do you remember anything about what they taught you about their religious doctrines?

"Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law".
That would be the OTO, but surely not the Universal Life Church? Since the time that the Beatles were members (or maybe even before), the ULC has split into several sects and branches. The Seattle group states that they are the largest and most active. Their mission statement says:

The Universal Life Church was founded on the basic belief that we are all children of the same universe and, derived from that basic belief, has established two core tenets by which it expects its ministers to conduct themselves:
  1. Do only that which is right.
  2. Every individual is free to practice their religion in the manner of their choosing, as mandated by the First Amendment, so long as that expression does not impinge upon the rights or freedoms of others and is in accordance with the government’s laws.
We have made it our mission to actualize these tenets in the world by empowering millions of ministers, whether they come to us from a Christian, Buddhist, Muslim, Jewish, Catholic, Shinto, Agnostic, Atheist, Pagan, Wiccan, or Druid tradition, to speak their own truth to power. We work tirelessly to ensure that anyone can get ordained online at the ULC Monastery and we seek to fulfill the spiritual needs of as many different groups as we can by offering plenty of information, a wide variety of services, and networking opportunities. The communication and fellowship of our scattered millions of ministers, we believe, is just as valid a form of worship as the weekly services held in some of the world’s more segregated and elitist religious institutions.
This is fine as far as it goes, and it reminds me of Unitarian Universalism. But there's nothing in there about calling all institutional truths into question. It's saying "all traditions are true", instead of "most if not all traditions are state propaganda." So I'm not ready to proclaim a Postflavian merger with the ULC.
 

Seeker

Well-Known Member
Do you remember anything about what they taught you about their religious doctrines?
Basically, what you listed below that, from what I remember.
That would be the OTO, but surely not the Universal Life Church?
I was just being facetious, that's why I was "winking" at you.
But there's nothing in there about calling all institutional truths into question.
to speak their own truth to power. Isn't that what you are doing on this forum?
 
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Marcilla Smith

Active Member
Jerry, you seem to me distressed over the current situation. Permit me to offer this prayer in the Pastafarian style:

Flying Spaghetti Monster,​
The noodliness of Your appendages reminds us of how You are ever reaching out to us, Your creation.​
Wrap Jerry in the warm embrace of Your comfort, and baste him in the sauce of Your graces​
that emboldened by Your favor, he will walk confidently in the path which You have set before him, that he may be a guide to others of Your children to do the same.​
We ask this in the name of Your sauce, our Lord, the Anointed Salvation, Who lives and reigns with You in the unity of the Al Dente Spirit, one Bowl, forever and ever.​
Ramen​

insert:moment_of_silence.wav

Pressing on now...

What kind of Church are we? Pretty much the opposite of the RCC...
If you'll excuse me for being a killjoy, I'm afraid Mr. LaVey beat you to that model

Nobody would dispute that the Pope has an iron grip on the Roman Catholic Church, which is the world's oldest and largest religious institution. But that doesn't make him Honcho over the Entire Planet!! In a similar vein, it's occasionally said that the President of the United States is the 'leader of the free world'. But that's not literally true, he's not even the actual ruler or titular head of Easter Island.
If the "free world" (pause for the forum's chuckle at the naivete of such an idea) were to decide that the government of Easter Island needed to take and/or refrain from some action to which it was not a mind to do, and it were to reach the level of the President of the USA, she or he is definitely granted the authority to command the level of power that could compel it to act otherwise. No one, however, would claim that the office could - on a whim - make dictates to the government of Easter Island without consequence - that office can't even get what it wants from its own government much of the time, even with less than whimsical reason.

Similarly, the Pope does not dictate to even his own church, much less the others. If an alien species were to land on our planet and seek out the chief spiritual leader of our species, many would probably point out the lack of a unified belief on the matter, and others might even point to the Dalai Lama. If those same aliens said they were going to verify the person's response with a poll of a random sampling of other earthlings, with potential consequences for a "wrong" answer, I feel certain even the most ardently anti-papist Primitive Baptist would be tempted to mention he who sits upon the throne of St. Peter.

...which - for anyone who lost their program - is where this line of thought began. To turn this around, then: are you aware of some other world religion which worships a personification of the underlying truth of reality? Or do you know of some other office which claims to be the appointed Vicar of Christ in His absence? Maybe its there, but I'm unaware of such things

The statue was built specifically in the image of the Moloch idol which appeared in the 1914 film Cabiria, in a scene in which babies were being fed into a fire in the belly of the beast. It's unmistakable that this is a monument to human sacrifice.
The Coliseum was, after all, the place where many Christians were sacrificed, so it seems like a rather appropriate placement. We're talking about, after all, a cult that places at the focal point of its worship space, an effigy of its own Lord being tortured to death

And so I rest my case, for Postflavian Spiritual Superiority over the Pope and the RCC.
If only we still lived in a spiritual age. But now we live in a political age, and a democratic "democratic" one, at that :: shrugs ::

So you're saying that the difference between a "utilitarian charlatan" and your own position, is that you aren't really even hoping that anyone is going to believe you, any more than they believe radar images of Santa Clause?
Matthew 5:5-6 (NABRE) presents the words of our Lord as:
"When you pray, do not be like the hypocrites, who love to stand and pray in the synagogues and on street corners so that others may see them. Amen, I say to you, they have received their reward. But when you pray, go to your inner room, close the door, and pray to your Father in secret. And your Father who sees in secret will repay you."
I don't think any of us here would imagine for a moment that the likes of Benny Hinn recites any prayers - certainly not to Jesus - in between cashing the social security checks of his sheep, and the placing of his head on his pillow at night. But what of someone like Stephen Colbert? While I think he's traded the edge he once had for pretty milquetoast toeing of the party line when it comes to entertainment value, he doesn't seem to get much of anything from his Catholicism beyond the intangible benefits of religion, and I would bet Bitcoins to bagels that he prays every day to a god he doesn't even believe in (in the way he believed as a child, at least).

Here he is on a Jesuit channel (no less), all but saying that he's an atheist (in any sense that your typical Southern Baptist would define such a matter):

Does the Catholic Church still excommunicate spiritual dissidents, or are they indulged as long as they don't go burning effigies of the Pope?
That's a great question! As I think we discussed previously, I had to cross this pontus in my own RCIA journey to full communion with the Holy See when I shared with Fr. Kane my skepticism in a historical "Jesus of Nazareth." Obviously that worked out fine. My experience is that by and large, any good clergy has spent so much time in contemplation - and therefore doubt - of their own faith, that - if anything - they welcome someone who is willing to so openly share the doubt that they must know we all carry inside us. "Suffer little children... " and all that.

The potential sin is in deliberately choosing to deny the possibility of believing the doctrines of the faith, rather than leaving oneself open to the possibility that the Lord (through His supernatural graces, no doubt) could happen to move one to more perfectly believe in accord with the church.

At any rate, I am still confused about your position, Marcilla. Are you a Postflavian at heart, working undercover within the Catholic Church? Or are you a Catholic trying to get us to acknowledge that the Pope is the World Spiritual Honcho?
Rest assured that I receive no compensation based on what anyone else does or doesn't acknowledge. Besides, where is the possibility that I'm working overtly within HMC? Or my identity as a Wesleyan-Anglo-Catholic Certified Lay Servant in the UMC? Or as a Minerval of the OTO? Or as an ordained minister in the ULC or First Church of Atheism? Or as a UU? Or as a Presbyteress in the Universal Church triumphant of the Apathetic Agnostic? Or as an Anarcho-Catholic-Internationalist? "Make America Even More Catholic"?

I would think it would be disheartening to work within Catholicism. This warning post from Charles Eisenstein comes to mind:
But how will you ever know whether the potion will grow or shrink you until you drink it, Alice?

Taking the IRS at their word, where do we stand as Postflavians?
Near the starting line? I think some basic questions left unanswered are: "what do you worship?" "What is your liturgy?"

Answering these questions for their own sake may not be the best path to legitimization. Consider the raised eyebrows with which (entirely) new religious movements are viewed, when compared to those which splinter from some already established tradition. Certainly this is affected by your end goal. Weren't you, Jerry, known to frequent a UU church on occasion? Do you disagree with the UU stance on vaccinations? How do you feel about the idea of legitimately splitting from the main body of the UUA over the issue?

Now I'm excited, because Marcilla really has grokked our most important central teaching. "Postflavians Call All Institutional Truths Into Question." Discovering the truth about Christianity is just the starting point.
And I am in turn excited that you've grokked the need to decide on a starting point ;)

Now who's our target audience?

Oh, that opened a memory cell, today is the anniversary of my becoming a Doctor of Divinity in that church, many years ago. I had become a Minister six months earlier, primarily because the Beatles were members of that church. No, I never made use of my "credentials", "Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law". ;)
Love is the Law - Love, under Will.

So we are all ordained in the Universal Life Church?

That would be the OTO, but surely not the Universal Life Church?
Oh, please! Despite the pearl-clutching of the trads, isn't it in line even with the doctrine of HMC?

"I delight to do thy will, O my God;​
thy law is within my heart." --Psalm 40:8 (RSVCE)​
 
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Seeker

Well-Known Member
So we are all ordained in the Universal Life Church?
Is that a simple "Yes" or "No" question? For me then, "Yes", what about you, and what about Jerry? I thought he was just citing its "tenets", how it had been split, and how it had been regulated. ???
isn't it in line even with the doctrine of HMC?
It was even in line with Roman Catholic Adolf Hitler and "The Triumph of the Will".
Or do you know of some other office which claims to be the appointed Vicar of Christ in His absence?
The Jesuit "Black Pope" Superior General? Not only does he technically outrank the Pope as a Jesuit, leaving out all of the conspiracy theories, but they are even both native South Americans, and he is almost a dozen years younger than the Pope too. From memory, there is also a very strange and unbelievable story that Pope Paul III (1468-1549), a member of the Italian dynastic Farnese family (who was also descended from the Orsini, of old Italian/Roman ("Black") nobility, with supposed ancestry from Julius Caesar), obtained the Philosopher's Stone and still lives (!!!) hidden in Rome, worshipped by his own personal AA cult. :eek: Try "walking the plank" to find out about him, if you can! ;)
 

Jerry Russell

Administrator
Staff member
Jerry, you seem to me distressed over the current situation.
Why yes I am, now that you mention it! A shadowy conspiracy consisting of at least the NIH, NIAID, CDC, WHO, and major pharmaceutical companies, have unleashed a biological war against the entire planet. The vast majority of my fellow citizens are too brainwashed to recognize what's happening. Governments have acted in lockstep with the conspiracy, and are increasingly strangling the world economy with ill-conceived reactionary mandates.

I suppose I should be grateful that the Chinese haven't invaded yet. Every day is a gift, I tell myself.

Wrap Jerry in the warm embrace of Your comfort, and baste him in the sauce of Your graces
I'm sure you're trying to make me feel better here, but the image of being cooked in a pan with tomatoes and noodles is not helping, especially considering the issue of Cannibal Imagery in the New Testament and Catholic churches.

[Naming the religious head honcho:] If those same aliens said they were going to verify the person's response with a poll of a random sampling of other earthlings, with potential consequences for a "wrong" answer, I feel certain even the most ardently anti-papist Primitive Baptist would be tempted to mention he who sits upon the throne of St. Peter.
So the aliens are insisting on the answer to a very different question. Not "Does Planet Earth have a singular spiritual leader?" (to which the answer is "NO") but "If we force your fellow humans to name a single individual person as the foremost Pretender to the Spiritual Throne, who would come out on top of the poll?" (to which, I agree, the correct answer would be 'the Pope'.)

To turn this around, then: are you aware of some other world religion which worships a personification of the underlying truth of reality? Or do you know of some other office which claims to be the appointed Vicar of Christ in His absence? Maybe its there, but I'm unaware of such things
One that immediately comes to mind is the Unification Church, with its Messiahs: the late Sun Myung Moon, and his wife Hak Ja Han who currently holds the title of the living "Bride of Christ".

That's a great question! As I think we discussed previously, I had to cross this pontus in my own RCIA journey to full communion with the Holy See when I shared with Fr. Kane my skepticism in a historical "Jesus of Nazareth." Obviously that worked out fine.
So it's OK to be skeptical about historical Jesus. But what about Celestial or Spiritual Jesus, or Space Jesus, or Robot Jesus? Did you and Fr. Kane speak about any of that?
 

Seeker

Well-Known Member
A shadowy conspiracy consisting of at least the NIH, NIAID, CDC, WHO, and major pharmaceutical companies, have unleashed a biological war against the entire planet.
As long as we are mentioning conspiracies, Dr. Fauci, a secret descendant of the Italian branch of the hidden Fulks family, according to a tribulation watcher, is apparently a spokesman for a yet unnamed Antichrist, who will be revealed after the 2024 Presidential election, when the Tribulation may begin.
the image of being cooked in a pan with tomatoes and noodles is not helping
I agree, and with all due respect, that whole Flying Spaghetti Monster concept makes you look ridiculous, unless I am being too literal-minded, again.
the correct answer would be 'the Pope'.)
Just for fun (and without his knowledge, shhh!), what about "Domain of Man" creator Charles N. POPE? One could tie him in with the arrival of asteroid "APOPHis" on Friday the 13th of April, 2029 (his birthday, and also of Guy Fawkes, "V for Vendetta/Anonymous", and Thomas Jefferson, author of the "Declaration of Independence").
One that immediately comes to mind is the Unification Church, with its Messiahs: the late Sun Myung Moon, and his wife Hak Ja Han who currently holds the title of the living "Bride of Christ".
Good choice, but even her own son Hyung Jin Moon now calls her the "Whore of Babylon", and he himself urged his followers to bring their semi-automatic rifles to his church to be "blessed" !!! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyung_Jin_Moon
 
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Jerry Russell

Administrator
Staff member
I don't think any of us here would imagine for a moment that the likes of Benny Hinn recites any prayers - certainly not to Jesus - in between cashing the social security checks of his sheep, and the placing of his head on his pillow at night. But what of someone like Stephen Colbert?
You're asking me to figure out which public figures are genuinely delusional, vs. which ones are cynically cashing checks? Aside from being an interesting problem in remote psychoanalysis -- what difference does it make? I do feel that both of these are on a different plane from the weather forecasting team. The radar images of "Santa" are a joke for "grown-ups" at the expense of the little kids who still want to believe. Benny Hinn and Stephen Colbert are for the "adults" who know that Santa is a fake, but wouldn't be caught dead admitting that Jesus is the same (even if, in their quiet inner selves, they know he is.)

Rest assured that I receive no compensation based on what anyone else does or doesn't acknowledge. Besides, where is the possibility that I'm working overtly within HMC? Or my identity as a Wesleyan-Anglo-Catholic Certified Lay Servant in the UMC? Or as a Minerval of the OTO? Or as an ordained minister in the ULC or First Church of Atheism? Or as a UU? Or as a Presbyteress in the Universal Church triumphant of the Apathetic Agnostic? Or as an Anarcho-Catholic-Internationalist? "Make America Even More Catholic"?
So we've established that you aren't personally getting any checks, and also that you don't seem to be delusional. But isn't an Anarcho-Catholic a contradiction in terms? For that matter, you seem to be a walking, talking contradiction? I'm not trying to be rude or snarky, I just don't get it??

Anarcho-Catholicism? Here's an essay that explains what this means: Anarcho-Catholics are those who would like to see secular government destroyed, leaving only the Catholic hierarchy. Now that's a scary idea.

I think some basic questions left unanswered are: "what do you worship?" "What is your liturgy?"
Well, that's easy. In Postflavian Church, we don't worship anybody, and we don't have a liturgy. Fortunately I think that should pass muster with the IRS, as long as our writings clearly state that this is our religious belief and practice, as defined by our Ecclesiastical Law.

Weren't you, Jerry, known to frequent a UU church on occasion? Do you disagree with the UU stance on vaccinations? How do you feel about the idea of legitimately splitting from the main body of the UUA over the issue?
The UU Church has completely gone over to the Dark Side, stating that congregations should Create an Expectation that Vaccinations are Required for Everyone who is Eligible. Our local UUEugene has stated exactly such an expectation. So far I haven't found anyone in the congregation who would join my splinter group.

Even the Pastafarians have let me down!! They are Shunning the Unvaxxed, as you can see in their blog. Not a single Pastafarian has yet had any good word to say about us non-GMO humans.

So we are all ordained in the Universal Life Church?
Unless she is spoofing us, I think Marcilla told us above that she's an Ordained Minister of the ULC. Whereas I have never paid the money or received the official certificate for hanging on my wall, but I consider myself fully on the same spiritual plane as those who have.

I guess the certificate is considered essential for officiating at weddings or funerals, but so far no one has called on me to perform those rituals.

Oh, please! Despite the pearl-clutching of the trads, isn't it in line even with the doctrine of HMC?
Not the Same at All!! According to the Scriptures, the HMC God chose to create both good and evil. So why should God's Law prevent a follower from doing the same? Any Catholic can do as much evil as they want, and go to Confession the next day to wash it away in the Blood.

Postflavians are outraged at this heresy, I tell you! Outraged!!

As long as we are mentioning conspiracies, Dr. Fauci, a secret descendant of the Italian branch of the hidden Fulks family, according to a tribulation watcher, is apparently a spokesman for a yet unnamed Antichrist, who will be revealed after the 2024 Presidential election, when the Tribulation may begin.
We know for sure that Dr. Fauci was raised Catholic, and studied classics at the Jesuits' College of the Holy Cross, before he went to med school at Cornell.

Erik Jon Phelps says that Fauci is still a Jesuit Coadjutor, and that the vaxx uptake is so high in Israel because the Jesuits are implementing their "Final Solution to the Jewish Question." Seems plausible.

Spokesman for the Antichrist? And people say I'm taking the FSM too seriously?

...with all due respect, that whole Flying Spaghetti Monster concept makes you look ridiculous, unless I am being too literal-minded, again.
There does seem to be a problem, creating the Postflavian Church as a sect of Pastafarianism. Namely, in the only US court case that has ever examined the question, the judge found that the Flying Spaghetti Monster is a joke! Not a God, but a Satire of a God! And as such, it was found that Pastafarianism is not a legitimate religion, and its free exercise is NOT protected by the First Amendment. Case dismissed.

Quite a predicament. Postflavianism is not exactly a joke (or at least, I hope not). But like Pastafarianism, a central teaching is the opposition to all forms of Organized Religion. Almost like we're the opposite of a Religion.

But I'm confident that if the paradox is fully explicated in our Ecclesiastical Lawbook, we should get the same indulgence as the Church of Atheism.
 
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Seeker

Well-Known Member
We know for sure that Dr. Fauci was raised Catholic, and studied classics at the Jesuits' College of the Holy Cross, before he went to med school at Cornell.

Erik Jon Phelps says that Fauci is still a Jesuit Coadjutor, and that the vaxx uptake is so high in Israel because the Jesuits are implementing their "Final Solution to the Jewish Question." Seems plausible.

Spokesman for the Antichrist? And people say I'm taking the FSM too seriously?
Not saying the following is true, but here's how it supposedly goes with him (by the way, this is my own idea that just occurred to me, does his name remind you of Dr. Faustus?) -

https://www.houseofnames.com/fulco-family-crest#:~:text=Early Origins of the Fulco family The surname,Museums, Galleries. It dates back to 313 A.D. Please keep in mind that the Italian branch "Fulco" surname was first found in Florence, and the next article mentions the Florentine Black Nobility -

https://www.alipac.us/f19/fauci%92s-hidden-history-secret-affiliations-finally-catch-up-him-posted-ma-385265/

A Fauci Family Tree - https://www.fbcoverup.com/docs/library/2021-04-16-Anthony-S.-Fauci-ABYS-Family-Tree-1589-to-present-Anonymous-Patriots-compiled-Apr-16-2021.pdf Maternally, he is supposed to be descended from Rhaetian nobility, and they were also claimed to be ancestors of the German/Prussian Hohenzollern Emperors, culminating in Kaiser Wilhelm II and WW I, ending with defeat in 1918, and also a Pandemic that very same year.
 
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Jerry Russell

Administrator
Staff member
...the next article mentions the Florentine Black Nobility
I don't see much information here to connect Fauci on his father's side to any of the Italian Fulco mafia, aside from aspersions. Am I missing something?

I checked Miles Mathis: aside from expressing extreme skepticism about the Official Story, he didn't really come up with any dirt on Fauci either. He guesses that Fauci's mother is Jewish, by her first name (Eugenia). But, BabyNamesPedia says that Eugenia is an ancient Greek name meaning 'noble' or 'well-born', and that some famous Eugenias included a 3rd century Christian martyr.

Not that I want to say anything in defense of the Jesuits... but, this alipac.us article puts a lot of weight on the Jesuit "Extreme Oath of Induction", which was actually concocted by notorious forger Robert Ware.
 

Seeker

Well-Known Member
I don't see much information here to connect Fauci on his father's side to any of the Italian Fulco mafia, aside from aspersions. Am I missing something?
Yes, they don't come right out and say it, except to suggest that the Fauci family was supported by the Black Nobility, perhaps without even knowing it. Reading between the lines, and trying to string this all together, from the different sources of information I found, what is intriguing is that it appears a renamed branch of the Fulcos (this family for the most part remains in obscurity, and uses other surnames, according to the original conclusions of the tribulation watcher), in the home of the Florentine Black Nobility, could have eventually wound up in Venice, home of the Venetian Black Nobility, as "Fauci", and then on to Sicily, controlled by the Italian Black Nobility, where the official pedigree of Dr. Fauci begins. https://www.houseofnames.com/Fauci-family-crest The ancestors of Dr. Fauci ran a hot springs spa in Sicily, a perfect place for the Black Nobility to meet them, make financial arrangements for his grandparents to immigrate, and for their descendants to prosper in America via their professional contacts, as the Alipac article implies. Some sort of "progression" at work here? As I am sure you know, no one said this would be easy to discover, and they cover their tracks very well, with aliases and trails to other locations.
He didn't write that article, and it is in error, as it states "He has no genealogy listed at Geni". Geni has his Sicilian genealogy back to the 18th century - https://www.geni.com/people/Dr-Tony-S-Fauci/6000000126678789822
Not that I want to say anything in defense of the Jesuits... but, this alipac.us article puts a lot of weight on the Jesuit "Extreme Oath of Induction", which was actually concocted by notorious forger Robert Ware.
Thomas Edward Bridgett, who "exposed" Robert Ware, left the Anglican Church to become a Roman Catholic, after refusing to accept the OATH of Royal Supremacy. Could he have taken a secret Jesuit oath instead, as their plant, and cover it up for his new "directors", by writing that such oaths never existed, except as a forgery? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Edward_Bridgett Just as a sidenote, Robert Ware's father, James, was a close friend of Archbishop James Ussher, and today is the anniversary of the Creation of the World, beginning on the eve of October 23, 4004 BC (Jewish days began at sunset the day before, thus actually October 22), according to the calculations of Ussher.

Just to reiterate, as I stated in the beginning, "Not saying the following is true, but here's how it supposedly goes with him (by the way, this is my own idea that just occurred to me, does his name remind you of Dr. Faustus?)". It's fun for me to try to follow and put the puzzle pieces together, though! ;)
 
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Marcilla Smith

Active Member
The Jesuit "Black Pope" Superior General? Not only does he technically outrank the Pope as a Jesuit...
Yes, as a Jesuit, and then when a Jesuit becomes a bishop or higher, he all but ceases to be a Jesuit, and is more of an alumni. This isn't to say that he may not receive counsel - or even follow directly ever suggestion to the T - but this goes more to the general idea of "power behind the throne," and is essentially universal to the human condition

... worshipped by his own personal AA cult. :eek:
African American? Alcoholics Anonymous? Argentium Astrum?

I'm sure you're trying to make me feel better here, but the image of being cooked in a pan with tomatoes and noodles is not helping, especially considering the issue of Cannibal Imagery in the New Testament and Catholic churches.
Fair enough. I appreciate the benefit of your doubt

... (to which, I agree, the correct answer would be 'the Pope'.)
Correspondingly, if we were talking about a consensus agreement, then it is clear that such does not exist

So it's OK to be skeptical about historical Jesus. But what about Celestial or Spiritual Jesus, or Space Jesus, or Robot Jesus? Did you and Fr. Kane speak about any of that?
Sorry, no cause to do so. After all, I am quite convinced of a Pneumatikos Iesous in the Logos, who is - as discussed in this very thread - almost certainly returning in His inmachinated form to call the elect to His kingdom in the metaverse, as revealed by one of our post-modern day Isaiahs, Neal Stephenson.

Speaking more generally as a Catechist-in-formation, in no less than St. Thomas himself we all see our twin who both seeks to know the Lord, and yet harbors doubt. To reach out to Him in our doubt is truly, then, and act of faith. "Blessed are those who have not seen and yet believe," is the translation of John 20:29b in the RSV used for the masses at the Masses, although for those who take the time to gnaw on the Word, we might wonder if "believe" is the best translation for pisteuō when the root pistis is translated as "good faith" or "reliability." If you'll excuse my jadedness, believing in something without demonstration seems like gullible superstition. OTOH, maintaining faith in an idea not yet materialized is the first Hermetic Principle of occult knowledge

I agree, and with all due respect, that whole Flying Spaghetti Monster concept makes you look ridiculous, unless I am being too literal-minded, again.
In Jerry's defense, the early Pauline Christians were allegedly ridiculed for worshipping a peasant who was publicly stripped naked and nailed to a post

Good choice, but even her own son Hyung Jin Moon now calls her the "Whore of Babylon", and he himself urged his followers to bring their semi-automatic rifles to his church to be "blessed" !!! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyung_Jin_Moon
While I can't find any membership numbers for the World Peace and Unification Sanctuary, based on their current GoFundMe of $240, I'm going to say they have a ways to go before presenting a challenge to the Holy See for who is the true Holy Mother Church - at least as is manifested in temporal reality. His whore mother (I say out of respect to him and his identification of her as such) is a little closer, with 1-2 million members

You're asking me to figure out which public figures are genuinely delusional, vs. which ones are cynically cashing checks?
No, and I'm sorry I wasn't more clear. Maybe it would have helped to watch the video, or watch it to the point where Mr. Colbert compares his faith to an exercise in attempting to convince himself that gravity changed directions. He appears no more convinced of the literal existence of a Sky Daddy in the waters of Heaven beyond the firmament than myself or certain priests with their own cryptic public confessions, for that matter ;)

Aside from being an interesting problem in remote psychoanalysis -- what difference does it make?
The difference is an entirely unaccounted for category of person in the typical contemporary atheist paradigm of "all believers are either dupers or duped"

The radar images of "Santa" are a joke for "grown-ups" at the expense of the little kids who still want to believe.
"Expense," though? Perhaps - like some gruff construction workers, brutishly making way for new construction - we've accidentally unearthed something buried more deeply. Reaching for my archaeologist's brush, I gently make the general observation: it's conceivable that some adults hold a lingering resentment against their parents for the lies their parents told them as children as part of the game of creating Holi Day magic

So we've established that you aren't personally getting any checks, and also that you don't seem to be delusional.
I assure you that I am delusional as are earthlings, only that my delusions result in more accurate predictions about reality than some

For that matter, you seem to be a walking, talking contradiction? I'm not trying to be rude or snarky, I just don't get it??
:: blushes :: Oh, how you flatter me! :: curtsies ::

Anarcho-Catholicism? Here's an essay that explains what this means: Anarcho-Catholics are those who would like to see secular government destroyed, leaving only the Catholic hierarchy. Now that's a scary idea.
While that is not the source of my labeling, the article seems to well grasp the naming convention, so that we arrive at similar conclusions. "Anarchism" - anarcho-communism, more specifically - is the ideal, "Catholicism" - primarily in theology, but practically in ecclesiology - is the vehicle, and "Internationalism" - as opposed to "Globalism" or "Nationalism" - is the form.

Western sociology professes that anarchy existed and exists outside of civilization in hunter-gatherer bands. Anarchy is unsustainable organically in larger groups, as explained by the Dunbar number. Therefore, order is only maintained through domestication to servanthood to a universal idea, and until then, through whatever technologies exist to bring it about. Christianity, generally - and in Catholicism, specifically - aspires to entrain this servanthood to the greater good into all participants as an aspirational goal. "Servanthood-by-force" has been attempted with the result - to put it in PostFlavian terms - that we have a society divided into Shepherds, Sheep dogs, and Sheep. The Egyptians had the idea that the self-domesticating feline was a more admirable companion, and it seems even the smallest of evangelists are already at work, convincing us of just how right they were

Well, that's easy. In Postflavian Church, we don't worship anybody, and we don't have a liturgy. Fortunately I think that should pass muster with the IRS, as long as our writings clearly state that this is our religious belief and practice, as defined by our Ecclesiastical Law.
While my highest degree is only a Mistress of Ignorance from the University of Nescience, and not any sort of upper level education in Ecclesial Tax Code, this strikes me as you seeking to get a title for a vehicle without a frame or drivetrain. Lex orandi, lex credendi, lex vivendi

The UU Church has completely gone over to the Dark Side, stating that congregations should Create an Expectation that Vaccinations are Required for Everyone who is Eligible. Our local UUEugene has stated exactly such an expectation. So far I haven't found anyone in the congregation who would join my splinter group.
Evangelize, oh Paul of the unvaxxed, and be that apostle to the gentiles of the outer "interconnected web of existence, of which we are all a part"

Unless she is spoofing us, I think Marcilla told us above that she's an Ordained Minister of the ULC.
I think you can look up my credentials on the website. Along with Stephen Colbert's ;)

Not the Same at All!! According to the Scriptures, the HMC God chose to create both good and evil. So why should God's Law prevent a follower from doing the same? Any Catholic can do as much evil as they want, and go to Confession the next day to wash it away in the Blood.
I don't understand how this contradicts "'do what thou wilt'... "

On the subject of contradictions, however, I have been called to a full 180 on my previous position, exemplified by this recent post:
And I am in turn excited that you've grokked the need to decide on a starting point ;)
This is a long-standing and rather fundamental disagreement we've had about "the way forward," with myself convinced of a more pedestrian and Jesus-historicity-questioning path, and Jerry advocating for a more academic and generally-skeptical path.

It occurs to me that there is a critical sticking point in terms of social standing in the academic community which acts as a keystone holding up the unnatural arc of "history as it's been told to us" from the entropic gravity of "the world as it is truly seen by those who study it most rigorously," and that were there a process to act as a sort of pickaxe to break this keystone's securing of the status quo narrative on all subjects from the historicity of Jesus to the responsibility for the events of 9/11 to the origins of COVID-19, and beyond, then we'd truly be tearing down the crumbling walls of the meta-narrative of the old paradigm, revealing what lies beyond the boundaries of our current enclosure, if you agree

...and if you'll pardon the run-on metaphor
 

Seeker

Well-Known Member
African American? Alcoholics Anonymous? Argentium Astrum?
Unless you are being facetious, and I am being literal-minded (yet again), I would have thought that you, of all people, would have gotten my meaning. Pick Column Three.
In Jerry's defense, the early Pauline Christians were allegedly ridiculed for worshipping a peasant who was publicly stripped naked and nailed to a post
Are you saying that Jerry worships the Beast? ;)
they have a ways to go before presenting a challenge to the Holy See for who is the true Holy Mother Church
If the Holy See is literally the Holy MOTHER Church, then Pope Francis shouldn't be the head of it either, and we should all be worshipping an ancient Great Mother Goddess. Of course, this would lead back to the whole heretical notion of Mary Magdalene as the Christian incarnation of that goddess, in opposition to Rome. If you chose that path, does "Marcilla Magdalene" have a nice ring to it?
 

Seeker

Well-Known Member
Reading between the lines, and trying to string this all together, from the different sources of information I found, what is intriguing is that it appears a renamed branch of the Fulcos ...
... eventually led to the Fauci family, and thus to Dr. Fauci today. Nicholas de Vere, for obvious reasons, promoted the de Veres as the senior royal family in the world, with the Fulks/Foulques Counts of Anjou (the last one also becoming King of Jerusalem), the original Plantagenets and ancestors of English, German, Swedish, and Italian Folkes/Fulco families, as their junior line (the Fulks Counts of Anjou were described as red-headed and/or ruddy complexioned, like de Vere's red-headed Scythians). However, it has been suggested that the Fulks/Folkes line was the premier line instead, using the de Veres and other prominent families (such as the Stewarts and the later Rothschilds) as a convenient layer of cover for them, and thus remaining in the obscure background, unheard of by the world. In this theory, they descend from the "Phocas" dynasty of Eastern Roman Emperors, and go all the way back to "our" Flavian dynastic family of Vespasian and Titus. These two Flavian Roman Emperors were either the "Christ" or "Antichirst" (depending upon your point of view), who were responsible for the fall of Jerusalem and the destruction of the Temple in AD 70. In an apocalyptic sense, they have also been considered to be among the seven "heads" of the "Beast" in Revelation, thus, Dr. Fauci may be a spokesman for a future Antichrist.
 

Jerry Russell

Administrator
Staff member
Thomas Edward Bridgett, who "exposed" Robert Ware, left the Anglican Church to become a Roman Catholic, after refusing to accept the OATH of Royal Supremacy. Could he have taken a secret Jesuit oath instead, as their plant, and cover it up for his new "directors", by writing that such oaths never existed, except as a forgery?
Ware was certainly guilty of a vast enterprise of forgery, generally motivated by anti-Catholicism rather than any particular agenda against the Jesuits. Bridgett discovered the pattern of forgery about 200 years after the fact.

I suppose it's possible that the Jesuit Oath was among the genuine documents that Robert Ware sold to Henry Hyde in 1868, along with his many fraudulent ones. But considering the style and political implications of the alleged Oath, and its general over-the-top 'Dr. Evil' implausibility, I'm sticking with the view that it's a fake.

As long as we are mentioning conspiracies, Dr. Fauci, a secret descendant of the Italian branch of the hidden Fulks family, according to a tribulation watcher, is apparently a spokesman for a yet unnamed Antichrist, who will be revealed after the 2024 Presidential election, when the Tribulation may begin.
Although the biological warfare conspiracy is not over, it looks like Friar Fauci's term of office probably is. He's being hung out to dry as punishment for gratuitous cruelty to beagles. The Antichrist will have to find a new spokesman?

Before we leave Dr. Fauci behind, I have one more question. We've established that Dr. Fauci has a long pedigree of Sicilian forefathers, whose names are readily available at Geni. These include Antonino Fauci (b. 1874) who (we are told) ran a hot springs spa in Sciacca. The family can be traced in Sciacca back to 1764, when Franco Fauci son of Giuseppe Fauci was born there. But is there any evidence linking any of these Faucis from Sciacca, to the infamous royal Fulks family?
 
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Jerry Russell

Administrator
Staff member
Maybe it would have helped to watch the video, or watch it to the point where Mr. Colbert compares his faith to an exercise in attempting to convince himself that gravity changed directions. He appears no more convinced of the literal existence of a Sky Daddy in the waters of Heaven beyond the firmament than myself...
I actually did watch Colbert's word salad. I submit that he absolutely Gnows, beyond any shadow of a doubt, that gravity always pulls objects downwards. His attempt to convince himself otherwise (aside from being an utter failure) is also exactly the sort of self-gaslighting absurdity that Charles Eisenstein warned about. All this in a pathetic attempt to curry favor with the Catholic Church.

After all, I am quite convinced of a Pneumatikos Iesous in the Logos...
No you're not. You Gnow there's no such thing, and you're gaslighting yourself. There is no "faith" or other virtue in maintaining "doubt", when there really is no doubt. Pneumatikos Iesous is nothing more than another fraudulent expression of Roman wartime propaganda. And you're avoiding having a serious conversation with your priest.

I don't understand how this contradicts "'do what thou wilt'... "
"Do what thou wilt" is the OTO creed, which does not contradict the Catholic de facto policy that you can do whatever you want, and automagically get forgiven. But this OTO / Catholic view is different from the ULC expectation that its ministers "do only that which is right".

It occurs to me that there is a critical sticking point in terms of social standing in the academic community which acts as a keystone holding up the unnatural arc of "history as it's been told to us" from the entropic gravity of "the world as it is truly seen by those who study it most rigorously," and that were there a process to act as a sort of pickaxe to break this keystone's securing of the status quo narrative on all subjects from the historicity of Jesus to the responsibility for the events of 9/11 to the origins of COVID-19, and beyond, then we'd truly be tearing down the crumbling walls of the meta-narrative of the old paradigm, revealing what lies beyond the boundaries of our current enclosure, if you agree...
I agree that once a person has been black-pilled to realize that a mainstream or academic narrative is completely fraudulent on any single topic, that same person is likely to question all mainstream narratives. This is generally a good thing, although all-too-often the newly created "conspiracy theorist" is diverted by any number of equally dangerous and fraudulent alternative meta-narratives, such as anti-semitism or flat-earth-ism, to give a couple of examples.

It seems to me that there are any number of false mainstream narratives (Jesus, JFK, 9-11, covid-19) which are vulnerable to analytical pickaxes. This site's broad approach was conceived to promote a valid alternative historical meta-narrative, as opposed to the many problematic rabbit-holes.

Are you saying that Jerry worships the Beast?
Hopefully it's clear that Pastafarians don't worship the Flying Spaghetti Monster, we only find him amusing.
 

Seeker

Well-Known Member
Although the biological warfare conspiracy is not over, it looks like Friar Fauci's term of office probably is. He's being hung out to dry as punishment for gratuitous cruelty to beagles. The Antichrist will have to find a new spokesman?
If this is true, it sickens me also, but I prefer to wait and see what actually happens, before I make any "predictions" about the future of possible Antichrist associates.
But is there any evidence linking any of these Faucis from Sciacca, to the infamous royal Fulks family?
The tribulation watcher does not use his real name, nor want anyone to email him, so I cannot ask him. However, from what I have gathered, he relies heavily on name associations, and says he has a unique method of heraldic interpretation. Miles Mathis, whom I also (and you, plus "Sgt. Pepper"?) enjoy reading for clues, does what basically amounts to the same thing, saying that a famous person has surname matches (on both sides, in his particular investigations), to previously exalted name variants of the family names of that person. Mathis then tries to connect all of these famous people to a common Jewish/Phoenician heritage in the ancient past.
 
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Jerry Russell

Administrator
Staff member
The tribulation watcher does not use his real name, nor want anyone to email him, so I cannot ask him.
This tribulation watcher: http://tribwatch.com, who warns of other "nothing-burger" tribulation watchers? ;)

Although name matching is a basis for speculation & further research, the problem is that virtually everyone in the Western world has a surname, which is inevitably shared with some famous person. This doesn't prove a close family relation.

[Edit: I'm repeating myself for the n'th time here, right? Another smiley needed, because I'm sure you've agreed with me before about this. Whereas with Marcilla, I guess I'm coming down hard on her... with big scowley face... :mad: in hopes that maybe she'll agree too? ]
 
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Seeker

Well-Known Member
This tribulation watcher: http://tribwatch.com, who warns of other "nothing-burger" tribulation watchers? ;)
Yep, he's so obtuse that he's either a madman or a saint (maybe both)? ;) What is also maddening about him is that he has no search engine or message board (just like your "friend" Miles Mathis) for his voluminous (and almost incomprehensible to the average layperson) information, but I do love a challenge!
the problem is that virtually everyone in the Western world has a surname, which is inevitably shared with some famous person. This doesn't prove a close family relation.
Tell that to Miles Mathis, if you are a fan of his. As I said, I read him also, and he does give me new insights, but I do agree that he goes WAY overboard with family name connections. He would have a field day with your surname, and also that of Richard, even though he was adopted. As for TW, I can see how "Fulc" could morph into "Fauc", over the centuries in Italy, especially if it was intentional. I also "like" how this family seems to have progressed from one Italian Black Nobility region to another, almost like a succession of Masonic grades or tests. To be fair to TW, though, he does mention somewhere (please don't ask me to go back and try to find it), that even though one was born into an Antichrist bloodline, one also has the free will to disassociate oneself from it (born again?). That is comforting news, and perhaps Dr. Fauci, or his ancestors, did that very same thing. Of course you must remember, that as intelligent and discerning as you might be, the Illuminati does not WANT you to connect any of this, and thus remain skeptical, exactly what you are being right now. Even Miles Mathis would say that the Fauci pedigree is "scrubbed" before the 18th century, so that no one can trace his sinister ancestry before that. ;) Thank "God" we have a tribulation watcher!
with Marcilla, I guess I'm coming down hard on her... with big scowley face... :mad: in hopes that maybe she'll agree too?
Hell hath no fury like a woman scorned.
 
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Jerry Russell

Administrator
Staff member
What is also maddening about him is that he has no search engine... but I do love a challenge!
It's often very effective to use either DuckDuckGo or Google search with the added term 'site:tribwatch.com' to restrict the search to the specified website. Even at PF, this often works better than the built-in search function.
 
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