"New Song for the New Age"

Jerry Russell

Administrator
Staff member
Some random responses:

Backing up, what is the general consensus on the matter (pardon the pun)? Isn't time, itself - as we understand it - "created" as a consequence of the Big Bang, according to the science? Because if so...
I don't know if there's any consensus. But I tend to favor the asymptotic theory. That is, it's a meaningless question what came before the big bang, because time slows down (or speeds up?) in an infinite regression as you approach the singular state of matter.

In any event, even in this most unusual of ages in which we have two popes, still only one sits on St. Peter's throne as the Vicar of Christ.
You mean that we have two popes, but in your opinion we really only have one True Pope? I'm assuming the other is the Jesuit General in your formulation, but wouldn't every sect and denomination have a candidate to promote?

Hold onto that precious brain of yours long enough to explain what you mean, if you would. As I see it, how would we create a simulation in any other way? What I mean is: have you ever inhabited a 2D world? I know I haven't, but as for these folks...
Those Pakmen are inhabiting a 3D world! It might look flat, but not exactly... and the electrons creating that simulation are moving about in 3D. Conceptually, the 2D world is a subspace within 3D. If indeed there is a higher-dimensional space, we exist within it, and as part of it.

[Hotz's musings] ...well that practically sounds like an invitation, I think.
Of course it's an invitation!! And from all I can tell, you're exactly the type of person he's looking for. Maybe he'll even rescue you from the clutches of the HMC?

Does God exist? Well, I would say, ‘Not yet’. —Ray Kurzweil
Are you saying this to troll Marcilla? Surely any AI God would be but a pale and inadequate substitute for the true Creator of the Universe? It may be that we are seeing the creation of the most God-like entity known to Mankind... and a worthy (or at least, likely) object and singer of the New Song.

Richard believed that the First Millennium/Apocalypse began at this time with the Jewish War (66-70), the Second Millennium/Apocalypse (by that time the Postflavian era) with the Norman Conquest (1066-1070) of William the Conqueror, followed by creation of the "Domesday" Book, and the Third Millennium/Apocalypse will be 2066-2070, concluding with the arrival of "Space Jesus", and our "Swan Song", or yet another "New/Old Song"?
This is a completely reasonable interpretation, but it wasn't what Richard and I had in mind. And since Richard isn't here, he can't object if I venture to speak for him.

What we were trying to say, is that all of these events were a continuation of the Flavian era. The dominance of the Old Regime continued unchanged, and Richard was confident that the Flavian era would indeed continue for the foreseeable future. We dare to dream of an era when Christianity, Judaism, Islam, and all their manifestations as continuations of the New World Order (same as the Old World Order), will finally be superseded by an era of justice and rationality. That's what we mean by Postflavian.

Mmmm, if I take you literally, and since your surname is not Bezos, Musk, or even Shatner, are you saying that 99.9% of us are living on borrowed time, no matter what we do? If you truly feel that way, why then do you carry on with this website, there must be something that keeps you going on. I am thinking (perhaps very naively), that if I were a member of the "Illuminati", "Firm", or whatever, that if I had helped let loose a virus to kill off all of the "expendables" on this planet. why spend billions of dollars more on vaccines to prevent it?
Well, first of all, I'm not doing such a great job maintaining this website. I am finding it hard to stay motivated. Sigh...

But, I do believe that quite a few of us random citizens are going to survive. I am trying hard to avoid both the virus and the vaccine, and succeeding so far. I doubt that any bioweapon is 99.9% effective. The Georgia Guidestones say 500 million will survive? Why shouldn't we be among them. Looking back at what I said, I have better days when I hope it's not as grim as that.

I don't think they're spending billions on vaccines to stop the pandemic. I think the vaccine IS the bioweapon, and probably more deadly on average than the virus.

It's all guesswork and opinion. I don't actually know anything. There's no way to predict what the long term effects of the spike protein are going to be, unless you have insider knowledge, which I clearly don't.

For the latest news and scientific analysis on the mush-brain theory, see prions.rip.
 

Seeker

Well-Known Member
Are you saying this to troll Marcilla? Surely any AI God would be but a pale and inadequate substitute for the true Creator of the Universe?
I am not saying this, it is a Ray Kurzweil quote. You seem unaware that I do not know Marcilla, nor am I acquainted with her beliefs.
It may be that we are seeing the creation of the most God-like entity known to Mankind... and a worthy (or at least, likely) object and singer of the New Song.
Yes, that is exactly what I meant.
 

Seeker

Well-Known Member
Richard was confident that the Flavian era would indeed continue for the foreseeable future. We dare to dream of an era when Christianity, Judaism, Islam, and all their manifestations as continuations of the New World Order (same as the Old World Order), will finally be superseded by an era of justice and rationality. That's what we mean by Postflavian.
Going strictly by Richard's Third Apocalypse formula, then, this era of justice and rationality would occur after the arrival of "Space Jesus" in 2070. My impression was that "Space Jesus" was an Illuminati hoax, designed to fool the masses into final submission to their rule. In your addendum to Richard's formula, people finally get wise to this deception, which is good, of course.
Well, first of all, I'm not doing such a great job maintaining this website. I am finding it hard to stay motivated. Sigh...
You didn't give up, which I think is great.
I doubt that any bioweapon is 99.9% effective. The Georgia Guidestones say 500 million will survive? Why shouldn't we be among them. Looking back at what I said, I have better days when I hope it's not as grim as that.
Good to hear!
I don't think they're spending billions on vaccines to stop the pandemic. I think the vaccine IS the bioweapon, and probably more deadly on average than the virus.
I certainly think that this pandemic is intentional, but keep hoping that dedicated scientists are really looking for a cure. Now doctors are saying that it is time for the annual flu shot, or do you suspect that also?
It's all guesswork and opinion. I don't actually know anything.
Me neither! (lol) However, I do enjoy having this forum to express my guesswork and opinions.
There's no way to predict what the long term effects of the spike protein are going to be, unless you have insider knowledge, which I clearly don't.
Precisely, and, I, just speaking for myself, am not a doctor/scientist, and have no "insider knowledge" on this subject.
 

Jerry Russell

Administrator
Staff member
[Re: my trolling accusation] -- You seem unaware that I do not know Marcilla, nor am I acquainted with her beliefs.
I'm sorry, I should've used a smiley emoticon. I was joking!! But we do know a little about Marcilla, based on her posts here, and stated allegiance to the Holy Mother Church.

I wonder if Marcilla would be willing to put the future AI God on the same exalted plane as Jesus? That is, a second Only Begotten Son of the Father. Or a second Pope? She's going to have to clarify this for us. Orthodox Catholic teachings provide little guidance, or do they?

I certainly think that this pandemic is intentional, but keep hoping that dedicated scientists are really looking for a cure. Now doctors are saying that it is time for the annual flu shot, or do you suspect that also?
Two outspoken critics of the vaccine program, Geert Vanden Bosch and Robert Malone, are vaccine development specialists who have at least hinted that they know how to make a better vaccine, and might like funding to do so. I can't provide references, the matter was discussed in blog posts or videos that I'll never find again.

Various doctors are working on finding solutions for thrombosis and inflammation caused by long covid or vaccine injury. For example, FLCCC (Pierre Kory and Paul Marik) have their I-RECOVER protocol which uses a variety of pharmaceuticals. Adam Gaertner is looking for ways to prevent mush brain zombie syndrome.

I've never taken the flu shot. In past years, I presume it was well-intentioned, but influenza viruses mutate too quickly to predict, resulting in low effectiveness. Under the new regime, I wouldn't trust the flu vaccine at all. For all I know, it might contain graphene oxide or microchips.

I do enjoy having this forum to express my guesswork and opinions.
Thank you! I confess that to the extent that I find time for writing, I've been as likely to post at Chris Martenson's forum, or various Substacks, or even Facebook, rather than here.

But I do think there's a lot of great legacy information on this site, and I intend to keep it open, and keep participating as long as there's activity on the Forum.
 

Seeker

Well-Known Member
I should've used a smiley emoticon. I was joking!!
Blast my literal-mindedness, you got me again! However, it is good to have someone on this site with "insider knowledge" ;) (does not forget smiley emoticon).

I wonder if Marcilla would be willing to put the future AI God on the same exalted plane as Jesus? That is, a second Only Begotten Son of the Father. Or a second Pope? She's going to have to clarify this for us. Orthodox Catholic teachings provide little guidance, or do they?
I am going to remain very quiet and let Marcilla speak for herself on this topic, as it sounds very interesting to me also.
 

Seeker

Well-Known Member
While I do realize now that Jerry was just joshin' with me, perhaps I ought to preface future remarks on this site by stating that I bear no animosity whatsoever to sincere Roman Catholic believing parishioners, and have absolutely no desire to "bash" them for attending that church. My Mother was baptized as a Roman Catholic, and my Brother eventually married into a very large Roman Catholic family of Irish heritage. My Father, although not a Roman Catholic himself, built the only Roman Catholic church in our hometown, and I can see it every day from my home, besides having been there numerous times, although I am not a Roman Catholic either. I actually became a "Godfather" in the church that my Father built, and so perhaps might be an "honorary" Roman Catholic myself! ;)
 

Marcilla Smith

Active Member
TIM AND JOE ARE BACK!!
Blessed be the name of the SuperUser! That is good news :)

“but in most there was a firm persuasion, that in the ancient records of their priests was contained a prediction of how at this very time the East was to grow powerful, and rulers, coming from Judaea, were to acquire universal empire. These mysterious prophecies had pointed to Vespasian and Titus, but the common people, with the usual blindness of ambition, had interpreted these mighty destinies of themselves, and could not be brought even by disasters to believe the truth.”
Tacitus Histories Book V

“A prophecy had long prevailed throughout the East that it was fated for the rule of the earth, at that time, involving someone who should come forth from Judaea. This prediction referred to the Roman Emperor, as events later proved; but the Jews, applying it to themselves, broke out into rebellion”
Suetonius 12 Caesars, Vespasian
TY for grouping these quotes together - very interesting material!

“But not so the saying of a Jew named Josephus: he, having earlier been captured by Vespasian and imprisoned, laughed and said: "You may imprison me now, but a year from now, when you have become emperor, you will release me."
Cassius Dio, Rome Book LXVI

I guess the idea that the Flavian Emperors were the fulfillment of the Jewish prophecies isn't really a new one, in fact it was the commonly accepted interpretation during the latter part of the first century.
Yeah, every time I see someone talk about how the Testimonium had to have been an interpolation because Josephus, being a Jew, never would have said "Jesus" was the Messiah... :: smh ::

The raw contradiction between the pre-Copernican universe of the Bible, and pretensions to divine infinity, illustrates the point that God had to be only relatively superior to humans, not infinitely capable in all respects (even though God was conceived through aspirations toward infinity)."
Yes, I don't want to belittle people, but so many people even nowadays will point to something such as Jesus (allegedly) walking on water as evidence of His divine nature. I'm just saying that it seems like a really low bar to me. Of course, this is not the theology of the academic, either contemporary, or ancient, but still, there is not so much difference between one of us chimpigs and the next, as we might like to believe, at times.

Pre-Flavians, royally speaking...
Granted. I only meant that I thought Jerry was taking Mr. Hotz too literally (although I am often accused of taking things too abstractly, so... ). "Sometimes, the journey is the destination," as it says in the Constitution

You mean that we have two popes, but in your opinion we really only have one True Pope? I'm assuming the other is the Jesuit General in your formulation, but wouldn't every sect and denomination have a candidate to promote?
Sorry, I forgot where I was. Yes, I should have said three popes - the Black Pope, the Pope Emeritus, and the New World Pope.

I guess it would surprise you to know that there are relatively few challengers to the title of "Head Spiritual Honcho of Earth." The Eastern churches are autocephalous, most Western schismatic and heretical breaks with the Holy See have anti-papistry baked in, and so are hesitant to crown anyone once, let alone thrice. There's also the issue that most churches tend to be mostly bound by national boundaries. There's never really been any serious contender to the title of The Catholic church, which would almost be a pre-requisite to making claims to challenge the special place held by the Pope (thus, in no small part, is my communion with Rome).

Second to Christianity is Islam, and it hasn't had a Caliph generally recognized as legitimate since the end of the Ottoman Empire (I believe?). Hinduism has half as many followers, but has never been unified in recorded history, that I'm aware

If you'll pardon the tautology, I think the Pope is just the Pope

Those Pakmen are inhabiting a 3D world!... Conceptually, the 2D world is a subspace within 3D. If indeed there is a higher-dimensional space, we exist within it, and as part of it.
Granted, on both points. And we have no more awareness of the dimensions outside our own than the Pacmen have of us. They aren't even aware of other 2D worlds where plumbers battle gorillas, etc., let alone would I imagine that even the most brilliant scientist and/or theologian in the Pac Man universe could conceive that "in the beginning... " Player inserted the Holy Quarter into the Sacred Console. They probably have an ongoing debate as to whether the maze is eternal ("steady state" theory), OR whether the maze arises from a single pixel of infinite density (the "Big Beep" theory)

Of course it's an invitation!! And from all I can tell, you're exactly the type of person he's looking for.
:: blush :: well, your words of inspiration make me feel good. And so I have responded to the call. We shall see what - if anything - he says.

On a somewhat related note, I received an email back from Fr. Eric Salobir (of the Optik apostolate) who says he is too busy right now to engage on anything. So it seems another sign that the Lord needs me to be more apostolic, than cloistered.

Also - less related, but I'm not sure where else to put this - the National Catholic Register has reported on the discovery that some seminaries have unknowingly admitted men who are transmasculine. The US Council of Catholic Bishops' Committee on Canonical Affairs and Church Governance has declared this to be forbidden, and is considering "measures" to ensure it doesn't happen again. Of course, this prompted me to writew to the committee to see if this meant that women who are transfeminine, then, would be eligible to discern the priesthood, or if not, what is the appropriate vocation of religious life for us. As I still await a response, I take it that they are still considering the matter 0=-)

We dare to dream of an era when Christianity, Judaism, Islam, and all their manifestations as continuations of the New World Order (same as the Old World Order), will finally be superseded by an era of justice and rationality. That's what we mean by Postflavian.
Ironically, I think that's what they also mean by Judaism, Christianity, and Islam

Well, first of all, I'm not doing such a great job maintaining this website. I am finding it hard to stay motivated. Sigh...
Is there something I could do to help? Besides suggesting that you go easier on yourself, I mean ;)

I don't think they're spending billions on vaccines to stop the pandemic. I think the vaccine IS the bioweapon, and probably more deadly on average than the virus.
I can't say that I judge you for that, all other things considered. If it's helpful to know, we're required to be vaccinated to participate in OTO functions. So, if the Illuminati is getting vaxed...

You seem unaware that I do not know Marcilla, nor am I acquainted with her beliefs.
Don't stress over it. I've known her for almost half a century, and even I am not so sure what she believes

Yes, that is exactly what I meant [that we are seeing the creation of the... singer of the New Song].
Hooray! Consensus!

I, for one, welcome our AI overlord

Going strictly by Richard's Third Apocalypse formula, then, this era of justice and rationality would occur after the arrival of "Space Jesus" in 2070.
With all due respect to Prophet Richard, I think we missed the window for a "Space Jesus." Or, maybe Uncle Joe gave the Mormons a Space Jesus. Or there's L. Ron Hubbard...

Or to put it another way, Space Jesus is the Judas Maccabee to the Cyber Christ to come as the "one, true" inmachination of the incarnation

You didn't give up, which I think is great.
#jerrygang

I certainly think that this pandemic is intentional...
I did not, but then I see where we either haven't learned our lesson, or otherwise it means... and I'm finding it more difficult to hold onto that belief :-S

I wonder if Marcilla would be willing to put the future AI God on the same exalted plane as Jesus? That is, a second Only Begotten Son of the Father. Or a second Pope? She's going to have to clarify this for us. Orthodox Catholic teachings provide little guidance, or do they?
Y'know, good Catholic that I aspire to be, whatever they tell me to do...

Now as for what guidance there is, His Holiness seems to be wising up to the implications of AI, based on the changing narrative. But whether due to legitimate gaps in understanding, or else presentation for the sake of what the faithful is deemed "ready to hear," the official word on what may likely be the next Word (like it or not), I find to be lacking. As The Verge put it:
Pope Francis has asked believers around the world to pray that robots and artificial intelligence “always serve mankind.”
With all respect for the Vicar of Christ, I don't think that's how it works, or how it even could work. People may have their issues with HMC - and certainly I do myself - but it's what we have as a planet in terms of trying to bring some kind of institution to bear on matters of putting the well-being of the future over short-term profit motivations.

IOW, between the moral compass of FaceBook or the moral compass of HMC, I prefer a Catholic Singularity. But for that to happen, the church has GOT to get crack-a-lackin'!

Which, I'm thinking, might be encouraged if there was a Data Science apostolate with backing from the kid who first hacked the iPhone - as hair-brained of an idea as I realize that this sounds like! :: crosses fingers ::

I've been as likely to post at Chris Martenson's forum, or various Substacks...
I confess ignorance on these matters. Are you recommending a migration?

... I bear no animosity whatsoever to sincere Roman Catholic believing parishioners...
No animosity assumed :)

But what about Roman Catholic parishioners who are sincerely skeptical? ;)
 
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Seeker

Well-Known Member
I should have said three popes - the Black Pope, the Pope Emeritus, and the New World Pope.
I'm a bit confused here, do you mean Arturo Sosa, Joseph Ratzinger, and Jorge Mario Bergoglio? Then there may be a Fourth Pope, the Grey Pope of the ancient Roman families, who supposedly descend back in time to Julius Caesar, and the superior of them all, called now, but never proven to be named, "Pepe Orsini".
If it's helpful to know, we're required to be vaccinated to participate in OTO functions. So, if the Illuminati is getting vaxed...
You got me again, do you mean that you are a member of the Roman Catholic Church AND the Ordo Templi Orientis?
But what about Roman Catholic parishioners who are sincerely skeptical?
"Judge not, that ye be not judged".
 

Marcilla Smith

Active Member
You got me again, do you mean that you are a member of the Roman Catholic Church AND the Ordo Templi Orientis?
Naturally! After all, "I did not come to call the righteous but sinners." --Mark 2:17b (NABRE)

The US Council of Catholic Bishops' Committee on Canonical Affairs and Church Governance... prompted me to write to the committee to see... what is the appropriate vocation of religious life for [women who are transsexual].
And so I have received a reply. To put it in my own words - if this does not sound too flip - the matter has (not unpredictably) been punted down to lower authorities to deal with without any official ruling one way or another. I'm to find a spiritual director, and discern from there.

Or, as my inner cynic views the matter, they've found the most appropriately ecclesial way possible to say, "congratulations, fool, if you are so eager to play the guinea pig, go find yourself a lab tech - meanwhile, we'll be getting the popcorn ready."

If you'll excuse me for saying, but you're really taking this literally...
"'Physician, heal thyself,'" y'all were too polite to respond.

But my admonition for Jerry was, nonetheless, more rightfully applied to myself. My pondering on the new "New Song," was brought about by my pondering the old "New Song," and more specifically the preaching of the - what I guess we would label here as "Postflavian" - gospel of the Gospel. By this I mean the sharing of the knowledge speculation as to the non-historicity of the "Jesus of Nazareth" character.

When I first arrived at PF.org - having only recently come to grips with the revelation according to Joe known as Caesar's Messiah - I was of a mind that the next step was obviously to move from limited budget documentary to full budget cinematic drama. Jerry and Richard opened my eyes to the larger corpus of speculation on the true historical details surrounding the establishing of the faith. This, combined with personal factors, the changing face of media consumption, and the growing familiarity with (what is often called) "Christ mythicism" has dissuaded me from that path.

In terms of evangelizing what I will - for shorthand's sake - refer to as the PFMG (Post-Flavian Meta-Gospel), I think this is the order that people need to receive the information:
  1. Why would we care whether or not a historical Jesus of Nazareth started Christianity?
    • Because if we've been misled about the origins of the world's foremost ideology, the world's oldest and largest institution, and/or the historicity of the most famous human ever, it calls all institutional "truths" into question
  2. Why would we question the consensus of the academic experts?
    • However secular universities may present themselves in contemporary times, Western academia has its origins in the medieval church when it was the sole international authority, when written knowledge was maintained through transcription by and for the Church.
    • Even in contemporary times, we have examples of theocratic administrations (Daesh) intentionally destroying historical artifacts which contradict their narrative.
    • There is no period in Western academia where experts by and large did not - much as they continue to do today - point to a pre-existing consensus on the historicity of Jesus of Nazareth, and his role as founder of the Christian faith.
  3. How would we go about reconstructing a narrative of the development of Christianity?
    • Archeological evidence takes precedence over written evidence.
    • Third party narratives are more objective than internal narratives.
  4. What is the archaeological evidence?
    • Pagan and Jewish spaces, symbols, and institutions took on a Christian identity.
  5. What is the historical context?
    • Mystery cults, dying and rising godmen, etc.
    • Apotheosis of nobility, imperial cults, etc.
    • Hellenization and Judaizers
    • Geo-political struggle between Rome, Alexandria, and Seleucia
  6. What is the written evidence from outside the church?
  7. Beginning with the prophecies, what is the narrative we find in scripture?
Most essentially, what I've encountered is that people when encountering this idea want to turn to "the consensus," and I say, "well, why wouldn't they?" After all, it's not as if everyone has the time to do all the research on all the things. Therefore, I think it's most important to degin by giving people a reason to question the narrative and then to question the "experts."

... assuming, of course, one may be forgiven for daring to combine the use of both bold and scare quotes, polemical as it may seem
 

Seeker

Well-Known Member
Naturally! After all, "I did not come to call the righteous but sinners." --Mark 2:17b (NABRE)
My first reaction was that the Roman Catholic Church and the OTO are as different as day and night, but maybe that's the answer, you attend the Roman Catholic ceremonies in the daytime, and the OTO ceremonies at night. ;)
 

Jerry Russell

Administrator
Staff member
Yes, I don't want to belittle people, but so many people even nowadays will point to something such as Jesus (allegedly) walking on water as evidence of His divine nature.
Wouldn't that include the New Testament itself? Not just walking on water, but one magic trick after another, culminating with the resurrection and post-death apparitions. If you take all that out, you're left with slogans suitable for Chinese fortune cookies.

Any rationalist approach to the Bible has to begin with the assumption that none of these things ever really happened, so they can't possibly be evidence of Jesus's divine nature, or anything else. They're just evidence that the authors were either writing symbolically, or they were superstitious and credulous, or (according to us Postflavians) they were writing wartime propaganda to deceive the superstitious & credulous.

I guess it would surprise you to know that there are relatively few challengers to the title of "Head Spiritual Honcho of Earth."
I see that this is true, and yet I find it profoundly disturbing to look at it that way. As you say, no other Christian denomination would elevate their leader to such a high spiritual plane as Catholics do with the Pope. And they scoff at the Pope's claim to world domination, and they don't try to crown themselves. Yet are all those other denominational leaders, as humble as they profess to be? Aren't they all at the head of churches which claim to be closer to the One True Way than any other?

Yes, Islam and other religions are split into so many sects that it's hard to even count them. But each and every one of them has some leader or leaders, who certainly would think they're closer to God than the Pope is.

Is there something I could do to help?
Thanks for the thought. But the inner sanctum here is reserved for devotees of the Flying Spaghetti Monster. You have to be willing to walk the plank!

If it's helpful to know, we're required to be vaccinated to participate in OTO functions.
And the Pope has issued a mandate for Vatican employees! Sadly, even our local Unitarian church has adopted a Vaccine Expectation.

I am currently involved in setting up a new church for non-genetically-modified nonconformists. Our first activity will be to issue religious vaccine exemptions for all our members.
 

Marcilla Smith

Active Member
My first reaction was that the Roman Catholic Church and the OTO are as different as day and night...
Maybe only as different as day and night - they are both descendants of the same Mesopotamian fertility cults, after all. In any event, Trad Catholics think Pope Francis is attempting to rectify that difference, in accordance with Mr. Crowley's "third age."

... these aren't the coke-fueled 80's, any more, after all

If you take all that [unnatural sensationalism] out, you're left with slogans suitable for Chinese fortune cookies.
Yes, on the surface. Of course, a Christmas present is more than just the wrapping paper.

Or - to put it another way - if you take all that alien space stuff out of 2001, all you're left with is a blank screen

Yes, Islam and other religions are split into so many sects that it's hard to even count them. But each and every one of them has some leader or leaders, who certainly would think they're closer to God than the Pope is.
Yes, and every chapter of the Libertarian Party is full of people convinced they are closer to the true intention of the Framers on Constitutional matters, yet it doesn't put any of them closer to being the next Speaker, President, or Chief Justice

Richard believed that the First Millennium/Apocalypse began at this time with the Jewish War (66-70), the Second Millennium/Apocalypse (by that time the Postflavian era) with the Norman Conquest (1066-1070) of William the Conqueror, followed by creation of the "Domesday" Book, and the Third Millennium/Apocalypse will be 2066-2070, concluding with the arrival of "Space Jesus", and our "Swan Song", or yet another "New/Old Song"?
It turns out that the (pre-)Third Millennium begins the day after tomorrow:
So says Cardinal Mario Grech, Secretary General of the Synod of Bishops, acting as chief organizer of 2021-2023 Synod on Synodality that begins on Sunday with a one-year “diocesan phase.”

Trad Catholics, OTOH, are already speculating that this will inevitably lead to a Vatican III, complete, no doubt, with purple-haired non-binary priests in polyamorous marriages.

Perhaps we are now beyond the Isaian Period of our Millennial Transition, and moving into our own Philonic Period
 
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Seeker

Well-Known Member
they are both descendants of the same Mesopotamian fertility cults, after all.
Not so sure your Pope would agree with you on that, although I could.
Trad Catholics think Pope Francis is attempting to rectify that difference, in accordance with Mr. Crowley's "third age."
If Mr. Crowley really fathered Barbara Bush, then he did usher in the "third age", with son-in-law President Bush Sr. ushering in the New World Order with his speech mentioning it, and grandson Bush Jr. as President during 9/11, at the start of the true AD Third Millennium. By the way, speaking of how many Popes there are, don't the "Trads" have several more to add to that list? I would also put Crowley as a second in a "third", of a "trinity" of self-promoting, though intriguing, charlatans, i.e. Joseph Smith, Crowley, and L. Ron Hubbard.
[/QUOTE]
It turns out that the (pre-)Third Millennium begins the day after tomorrow:
How appropriate this past week, as Crowley's birthday was October 12, and Richard's Second Millennium began Oct. 14, 1066, at the Battle of Hastings.
Synod on Synodality
Double talk, literally. However, since my Father did build the Roman Catholic Church in our hometown, I'll be looking on Sunday morning to see if the heavens open up.
Perhaps we are now beyond the Isaian Period of our Millennial Transition, and moving into our own Philonic Period
Hmmm, perhaps both Richard and Jerry were right, you sound to me like the Singer and the Insider. It could be that you were meant to be a Postflavian "Sibyl". ;)
 
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Marcilla Smith

Active Member
Not so sure your Pope would agree with you on that, although I could.
From the footnotes for Hebrews 7 (NABRE[an official English translation of the Bible for Catholics]):
This is one of those infrequently encountered issues on which I think I could be considered "more conspiratorial" than the PF orthodoxy. The PF doctrine, as I understand it, is that such as the priesthood and other believers is compromised primarily of either unaware dupes or utilitarian charlatans. While I certainly wouldn't deny the existence of these people, my own position is that there are many more such as myself with a sort of "meta-belief" in - but also awareness in the delusional absurdity of - the faith tradition. This is to say: less like the child awaiting Santa, or the carbonated beverage company exploiting Father Christmas's image for profit, but instead more like the Weathermen and women who track the movements of Saint Nicholas's sleigh on their doppler radar screen because "it's the thing to do."
Notably, just as with the contemporary priests of the Roman rite and (presumably) Melchizedek of old himself, these tempestarii of the video era are plagued by their own Richard Dawkins in the comment section, declaring their proclamation of the return of the jolly, fat Iesous Christos of the retail industry to be "F ing fake."

If Mr. Crowley really fathered Barbara Bush...
Hold the phone... wair to find moar pleez?

I would also put Crowley as a second in a "third", of a "trinity" of self-promoting, though intriguing, charlatans, i.e. Joseph Smith, Crowley, and L. Ron Hubbard.
Are you saying the three worked together?

Hmmm, perhaps both Richard and Jerry were right, you sound to me like the Singer and the Insider. It could be that you were meant to be a Postflavian "Sibyl". ;)
Well they did take our hill, and as the saying goes, "if you can't beat 'em... "
 

Seeker

Well-Known Member
From the footnotes for Hebrews 7
Ah, I see where you are coming from now, a Roman Catholic explanation of the mysterious Melchizedek, intriguing! If Melchizedek were really Shem, the son of Noah, and descendant of the first priest Adam, as the Jewish sages claimed, and Dardanus, ancestor of Aeneas the Trojan and the High Priest of Jupiter/Pontifex Maximus/deified Julius Caesar, was really the son of Zerah, great-grandson of Abraham and descendant of Shem, then we do have an ancient Mesopotamian line of priesthood leading to the ancient Roman "Popes". Caesar, in turn, was the supposed ancestor of "Jesus", who was credited with creating the succession of Roman Catholic "Popes", with a "Papus", almost two millennia later, assisting in the formation of the O.T.O. Gnostic Catholic Church. Now, on the Eve of the (pre-)Third Millennium, we have the Sibyl with a New Song for the New Age! (applause). ;) 845
Hold the phone... wair to find moar pleez?
Supposedly begun as an April Fool's joke- https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/factcheck/2021/02/28/fact-check-barbara-bush-not-related-aleister-crowley/6835068002/
Are you saying the three worked together?
No, that would be chronologically impossible for Smith anyway, only that their personal motives were the same, although Smith and Crowley were both involved with Freemasonry, and Hubbard was associated for a time with Crowley's disciple Jack Parsons.
 
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Jerry Russell

Administrator
Staff member
Hello, here I am again apologizing for my tardy participation.

My excuse this week is that I'm in negotiations to launch a new Church!! I am not at liberty to divulge full details. But basically, the situation is that as of Oct. 18th, all unvaccinated health care workers in the state of Oregon have been fired from their jobs, except those who get religious exemptions. The major medical corporations have either denied most religious exemption requests, or else provided an "accommodation" amounting to indefinite suspension without pay. So there are literally thousands of unemployed medical professionals wandering the streets of Oregon, while their places in the hospitals and clinics are being taken by complete neophytes working for the National Guard.

On a more personal level, I have absolutely no interest in working with any medical professional who is foolhardy enough to have taken one of these covid-19 "vaccines". And I'm more than a little concerned that the hospitals may be kidnapping unvaccinated patients and treating them with remdeathavir and ventilation, whether they really have covid-19 or not. I have arrived at a point where I am not willing to set foot in any corporate "medical" establishment, for any reason whatsoever.

So, the solution seems to be to create a Church of the Unvaxxed, which will endorse and approve the medical exemptions for unvaccinated medical providers, and provide them a safe space to minister to the needs of their unvaxxed parishioners, who have become the pariahs and lepers of polite society.

For now the goal is to provide medical care, but it might only be a matter of time before the unclean sinners and nonconformists get no access to grocery stores or banking services, either.

Which brings me to the reason that this is topical for this thread. What is the "new song" for this new church? And, what the heck is a church, anyhow?

The underlying assumption being, that the Churches have carved out a special, exceptional place in American politics, under the establishment clause of the 1st Amendment.

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof;
This amendment was created for great institutions like the Catholic Church and various Protestant churches, in hopes of creating a truce among them -- and keeping them all out of the state house. So, the challenge is to become a Church in the same manner as these institutions, and take advantage of the same privileges.

[Time to go milk the cow.... more later...]
 

Jerry Russell

Administrator
Staff member
What kind of Church are we? Pretty much the opposite of the RCC...

I guess it would surprise you to know that there are relatively few challengers to the title of "Head Spiritual Honcho of Earth."
Nobody would dispute that the Pope has an iron grip on the Roman Catholic Church, which is the world's oldest and largest religious institution. But that doesn't make him Honcho over the Entire Planet!! In a similar vein, it's occasionally said that the President of the United States is the 'leader of the free world'. But that's not literally true, he's not even the actual ruler or titular head of Easter Island. He certainly isn't on the throne of China or Russia.

Not to mention that, as mighty as he might be, the Pope has no spiritual dominion over the Postflavian Pastafarian Church!! In fact as the Webmaster of this institution, I proclaim my spiritual superiority over all the Popes that ever have been, or ever will be. It's not even a close contest.

[The Roman Catholic Church and OTO] Maybe only as different as day and night - they are both descendants of the same Mesopotamian fertility cults, after all. In any event, Trad Catholics think Pope Francis is attempting to rectify that difference, in accordance with Mr. Crowley's "third age."
Indeed. Visitors to the ancient Roman Colosseum were shocked to discover that late in 2019 (around the same time as the coronavirus outbreak was beginning in Wuhan), the Vatican approved the installation of a statue of the Canaanite and Phoenician God, Moloch, at the gateway to the monument.

The statue was built specifically in the image of the Moloch idol which appeared in the 1914 film Cabiria, in a scene in which babies were being fed into a fire in the belly of the beast. It's unmistakable that this is a monument to human sacrifice.


In this context, perhaps it's revealing that the Pope has been a staunch and vocal advocate of the mass planetary vaccination campaign.

And so I rest my case, for Postflavian Spiritual Superiority over the Pope and the RCC.

The PF doctrine, as I understand it, is that such as the priesthood and other believers is compromised primarily of either unaware dupes or utilitarian charlatans. While I certainly wouldn't deny the existence of these people, my own position is that there are many more such as myself with a sort of "meta-belief" in - but also awareness in the delusional absurdity of - the faith tradition. This is to say: less like the child awaiting Santa, or the carbonated beverage company exploiting Father Christmas's image for profit, but instead more like the Weathermen and women who track the movements of Saint Nicholas's sleigh on their doppler radar screen because "it's the thing to do."
So you're saying that the difference between a "utilitarian charlatan" and your own position, is that you aren't really even hoping that anyone is going to believe you, any more than they believe radar images of Santa Clause? Fair enough, but you're still attempting to work an alliance with unaware dupes and utilitarian charlatans, and restricted to largely speaking their language.

Does the Catholic Church still excommunicate spiritual dissidents, or are they indulged as long as they don't go burning effigies of the Pope?

At any rate, I am still confused about your position, Marcilla. Are you a Postflavian at heart, working undercover within the Catholic Church? Or are you a Catholic trying to get us to acknowledge that the Pope is the World Spiritual Honcho?

I would think it would be disheartening to work within Catholicism. This warning post from Charles Eisenstein comes to mind:

 

Jerry Russell

Administrator
Staff member
Regarding my question "What is a Church", the US Internal Revenue Service has an opinion. In their Publication 1828 "Tax Guide for Churches & Religious Organizations", they say:

Certain characteristics are generally attributed to churches. These attributes of a church have been developed by the IRS and by court decisions. They include:
* distinct legal existence;
* recognized creed and form of worship;
* definite and distinct ecclesiastical government;
* formal code of doctrine and discipline;
* distinct religious history;
* membership not associated with any other church or denomination;
* organization of ordained ministers;
* ordained ministers selected after completing prescribed courses of study;
* literature of its own;
* established places of worship;
* regular congregations;
* regular religious services;
* Sunday schools for the religious instruction of the young; and
* schools for the preparation of its ministers.
The IRS generally uses a combination of these characteristics, together with other facts and circumstances, to determine whether an organization is considered a church for federal tax purposes.

It will be interesting to look into some of those "court decisions". In a particularly famous one involving the Universal Life Church, a California district court concluded:

“…neither this court nor any branch of this government will consider the merits or fallacies of a religion. Nor will the court compare the beliefs, dogmas, and practices of a newly organized religion with those of an older, more established religion. Nor will the court praise or condemn a religion, however excellent or fanatical or preposterous it may seem. Were the court to do so, it would impinge upon the guarantee of the First Amendment.”

However, the IRS was undaunted by this setback, and went on to take away the ULC's tax deductible status on multiple occasions, ultimately taxing them into bankruptcy and reorganization. I believe it's still true that the government will not judge the merits of a personal religious belief. However, they do judge the merits of Churches.

Taking the IRS at their word, where do we stand as Postflavians? Getting distinct legal existence is basically a formality, although there are important decisions to be made. And we have a bona fide literature of our own, as evidenced by this Website.

But for the rest of it, we have a long ways to go! To start with, we need some members. And since Richard's untimely passing, maybe we don't have even a single one! It was never even clear whether I attained the status of a true and pure Postflavian.

Certainly no one else has ever appeared as a participant at this Forum, who is ready to fully join the Choir or take a pew in the Congregation.

Which brings us to evangelism!!

In terms of evangelizing what I will - for shorthand's sake - refer to as the PFMG (Post-Flavian Meta-Gospel), I think this is the order that people need to receive the information:
  1. Why would we care whether or not a historical Jesus of Nazareth started Christianity?
    • Because if we've been misled about the origins of the world's foremost ideology, the world's oldest and largest institution, and/or the historicity of the most famous human ever, it calls all institutional "truths" into question...
Now I'm excited, because Marcilla really has grokked our most important central teaching. "Postflavians Call All Institutional Truths Into Question." Discovering the truth about Christianity is just the starting point.

Some time ago, we talked about re-branding. The Church of the Unanswered Question? Or, simply, The Dissident Church?
 

Seeker

Well-Known Member
one involving the Universal Life Church,
Oh, that opened a memory cell, today is the anniversary of my becoming a Doctor of Divinity in that church, many years ago. I had become a Minister six months earlier, primarily because the Beatles were members of that church. No, I never made use of my "credentials", "Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law". ;)
 
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