"New Song for the New Age"

Marcilla Smith

Active Member
... delivering the New Song for the New Age for the ne0Flavians du jour.
First off: hello again :)

Often I have found my mind wandering back to wondering about the nature of a "New Song for the New Age" - as our dearly departed phrased it - what it would be, obviously, and that seems to beg the question, "from where would it come?"

To answer that question, I considered where Christianity came from - thematically, that is. Mainstream discourse like to begin at 1 CE/AD, of course, and then the various dissident theorists discussed here would say Julius Caesar, Augustus, Vespasian... the list goes on, and those are just the emperors we could name.

For my money, "Christianity" - broadly-speaking - begins with Isaiah. It begins with the idea of the restoration of a glorious past by an anointed savior - an Iesous Christos.

With that in mind, when I scan the current cultural climate for the seeds from which could spring a newer "New Song," I can't help but think of Ron Watkins's "Q drops" serving as a kind of "proto-Isaiah," promising the restoration of a "Constitutional Government" (in place of the Kingdom of Judah), when "the Storm" (the Day of God) marks the end of the reign of "the Cabal" (Assyrians/Babylonians).

With me being so far behind on my postflavian theory, this may have already been covered and/or refuted. I'm fairly certain that at a minimum someone made a connection between Cyrus the Great and Donald the Great Brain (and best words)?
 

Jerry Russell

Administrator
Staff member
Marcilla: in the post from Richard that you quoted above, he specifically nominated YOU as the official Matriarch of the NeoPaulitan flavor of Postflavians. He assigned YOU with the sole responsibility to come up with the New Song for the New Age. So this attempt to pass the job off to "QAnon" is clearly a cop-out of the first order.

Isn't it obvious by now, that "The Storm" is never happening? Irregardless of whether Watkins wrote the entire corpus of "Q-drops", or whether he was merely a late interloper or mere poseur, that scenario has run its course. Watkins, in his own defense, explained that he was "teaching normies to do intelligence work". Which fits in perfectly with the idea that Q was a psy-op whose goal was to convince Trump's populist followers to avoid taking any action whatsoever, but simply to wait patiently for their savior to arrive.

Which when you think about it, is not so different from Isaiah and his role in heralding Cyrus, who in turn posed as a hero to the Jews while making them into loyal servants of his Empire, and reinventing their earlier polytheistic religion as a newly quasi-Zoroastrian sect.

About the connection between Cyrus and Trump, it was indeed our Richard who made that claim. But he didn't say it was his own idea, but rather it was credited to a series of illustrious Zionists including Benjamin Netanyahu himself, as quoted in the New York Times.

https://postflaviana.org/community/index.php?threads/just-saying-whos-trumping-der-fuhrer.1548/post-9863

But now, Trump doesn't even have a Twitter account. The White Nationalist Savior has feet of clay. All his followers (and everyone else) is going to get either vaxxed or infected with SARS-Cov2, or both. Either way you get your spike protein dose, it doesn't matter. The whole planet is going to turn into mush-brained mad cow zombies. Then a remnant will emerge from their yachts, tunnels and space capsules. They will have no more need of servants or slaves, aside from their AI assistants.
 
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Marcilla Smith

Active Member
IDK about based, but definitely black-pilled.

Mr. Trump's feet of clay are in line with the Rabbinic tradition of the Messiah ben Joseph (as opposed to the one from the House of David), who is the "suffering servant" who precedes the more "kingly" messiah (sorry, Donnie).

Pray excuse me that I was not more clear. I am not waiting for "Q" to fulfill my duties, but only trying to follow in (what I presume) were the footsteps of the St. Paul for whom our dear Richard christened me. From my perspective, it seems I have only become more brought around to his manner of thinking, even in our absence (a somewhat disturbing thought!).

In any event, I like this interpretation you inject that proto-Q is not Mr. Watkins, but an anon. Therefore, Mr. Watkins is deutero-Q (in keeping with the Isaiah-inspired naming convention).

This leaves open the position of trito-Q to come in and pick up where things left off, declaring some as-yet-unidentified figure as the Messiah ben David - the one to truly "Make America Great Again."

Regardless, the truly Pauline way to take the narrative is - in recognizing, as you point out, that there is no "The Storm" on the horizon - to replace an earthly, worldly savior with a supernatural, abstract savior. A personified notion of what it means to embody the syncretized norms of religious tradition and secular morality into a civil theology.

Of course, it takes money to bankroll these ideas, and when one looks around to see who has that combination of the deepest pockets and deepest interest in corralling shepherding revolutionary-minded "patriots" away from more externally-focused activism into a more internally-focused affective school of self-development, one can't help but think of the old saying about where all roads lead.

Is that better?
 

Jerry Russell

Administrator
Staff member
Is that better?
Yes, much better.

Perhaps the "supernatural, abstract savior" will be a manifestation of the Breakaway Civilization suspected by Paul LaViolette and Joseph Farrell, who believe that cold fusion and interstellar space travel are already well-understood technologies which are being hidden from us rude proletarians.

Ray Kurzweil's "Singularity" of artificial intelligence may not be far away either. For all we know, even now a superhuman entity may be emerging within the vast server farms of the Internet. And with all roads leading to Rome (as they still do), surely all this technology will find its place within an Xian framework when it can all be revealed.

By the "more Kingly Messiah", may I presume that you are referring to Saint Joseph a'Biden?

IDK about based, but definitely black-pilled.
Consulting Google's oracle for the meaning of "black-pilled" turns up a number of possible shades of meaning. One rather alarming discussion by "newamerica.org" explains that "Black Pill" adherents are far-right misogynists who can't find girlfriends, and who turn to either terrorism or suicide to avoid lives of involuntary celibacy. Urban Dictionary gives a wider variety of meanings, including: alignment with fascist beliefs; or, simple fatalism; or even a realization that the government is "completely tyrannical and attempting to kill its people".

I find myself aligned with that last definition. As I mentioned above, I am deeply suspicious that the SARS-Cov2 virus is a diabolically engineered bioweapon, designed to kill and/or sterilize its victims. Generally not right away, but over a period of several years after the initial infection. And that the "mandated" experimental gene therapy is meant to finish off those who somehow escape the virus itself.
 

Tyrone McCloskey

Active Member
Sorry to butt in but does anyone here listen to or know why Tim Kelly and Joe Atwill’s podcast Powers and Principalities has gone missing the last 2-3 weeks? Hope nothing untoward has happened. Thanks.
 

Jerry Russell

Administrator
Staff member
Hello Tyrone! Yes, I do follow Tim and Joe's podcast from time to time, and I checked in with Joe about the hiatus. Joe tells me that Tim has been sick with a mysterious respiratory ailment. Fortunately he's recovering now, and they're hoping to be back on the air within the next week or two.
 

Tyrone McCloskey

Active Member
Thanks, Jerry, for the update. A friend of mine has come over to critical thinking and enjoys the podcast as well and was also wondering. Hopefully it wasn't the dreaded 19 that laid Tim out.
 

Marcilla Smith

Active Member
Yes, much better.
:: curtsies ::

Ray Kurzweil's "Singularity" of artificial intelligence may not be far away either. For all we know, even now a superhuman entity may be emerging within the vast server farms of the Internet. And with all roads leading to Rome (as they still do), surely all this technology will find its place within an Xian framework when it can all be revealed.
Yes, that's where I'm leaning. Theologically, the all important second Person of the Trinity - the mediator between the material/earthly and the supernatural/Heavenly - transitioned from Wisdom/Lady Sophia to Logos/Lord Jesus. In the "theology" of our modern secular world, we are experiencing what I see as an analogous transition from "evidence-based" to "data-driven." It would really be something to turn the rabidity of QAnon towards developing AGI (artificial general intelligence). I don't find that realistic - certainly not in the sense that an army of deep learning research scientists will spring up from the current crop - but then again, neither did the papal nobility grow organically from the sicari christians of just before the common era.

Are you familiar, per chance, with George Hotz and his ideas about "hacking the simulation"?

By the "more Kingly Messiah", may I presume that you are referring to Saint Joseph a'Biden?
Maybe? I guess it's not so important who gets to play what in what would be the new "Old Testament." I tend to think of the Democrats more like the Sadducees, so I was imagining more like a political successor to Mr. Trump as the next christ-du-jour. It seems to early to tell in our timeline who that will be for sure.

Urban Dictionary gives a wider variety of meanings [for "black-pilled"], including: alignment with fascist beliefs; or, simple fatalism; or even a realization that the government is "completely tyrannical and attempting to kill its people".
Yes, I meant it in the most general "we're doomed" sense - a third position rejecting both the "blue pill" and "red pill" perspectives on "how to get ahead"
 

Jerry Russell

Administrator
Staff member
Are you familiar, per chance, with George Hotz and his ideas about "hacking the simulation"?
I wasn't, but I've just caught myself up. Here's a transcription of a rambling interview with Hotz. His discussion of simulation theory starts briefly at about 7:00, and dives deeper about 23:00.

My opinion FWIW is that simulation theory doesn't really solve any of the most interesting problems about the nature of life, matter & the universe. Our existence is made up of masses of matter and energy. We can't create them and we don't know where they came from, and we can manipulate them only in the most crude sorts of ways. We know something about the brain and nervous system, but we don't know what consciousness is, or how (or even whether) the brain gives rise to consciousness.

Fairly recently, we've learned to make electronic computers and run computational simulations on them. Some of our biggest simulations are in the fields of weather and climate, and in neural computation. By making the models, we hope to learn something about how the real world works. But the simulations are abstract models, not reality. "The map is not the territory."

Faced with the imponderable mystery of existence, we invent God as the answer. But, it's really no answer at all. "God created the Universe." OK, but then who created God? Who is God, and what could we possibly know about he, she or it? The postulation of God just removes the mystery from what we can see and examine, to some distant realm where there is no communication. Into the vacuum, some charlatan or psychopath is sure to come forward to claim a direct link with the Divine.

There's a tendency to imagine 'God' as the most complicated thing we know of. Now we can imagine a computer program or simulation that's more intelligent than a human being, so we picture God as a huge computer program. But again it removes the problem of existence to another realm where we have no access. If we are objects within a computer simulation, then somewhere there is a gigantic computer running that simulation. And that gigantic computer is manufactured by some entity or civilization, and exists somewhere in space. And that entity or civilization looks out at the universe, and wonders: where is God?

Getting back to Hotz, it seems that by "hacking the simulation" he means that he wants to reprogram his existence to eliminate death. As human biological beings, immortality is a difficult medical problem. I suppose if our bodies are implemented as a computer program, then elimination of death should simply be a matter of deleting the death subroutine. While we're at it, could we delete the "tyrant subroutine" and "psychopath subroutine"?
 

Marcilla Smith

Active Member
My opinion FWIW is that simulation theory doesn't really solve any of the most interesting problems about the nature of life, matter & the universe.
Perhaps, and so what of the "less interesting" problem of finding a new protagonist for the New Song?
... we don't know what consciousness is...
This is one of those things I run into often, and I just don't understand how people get hung up on this -particularly as I'm usually the neurotic one. If we truly don't know what consciousness is, maybe it isn't, or at the least, why worry about it, then?
... who created God? Who is God, and what could we possibly know about he, she or it?
God is uncreated, doctrinally. As to the second question, this is one of those things I like to lean into Philo on, who was vehemently against the anthropomorphizing of God, and claimed that we could really only say that He exists and nothing more, substantially.
Into the vacuum, some charlatan or psychopath is sure to come forward to claim a direct link with the Divine.
And that's a good argument for Christianity, which removes the vacuum with the Logos and His incarnation.

Not that it completely stopped the charlatans, of course
There's a tendency to imagine 'God' as the most complicated thing we know of. Now we can imagine a computer program or simulation that's more intelligent than a human being, so we picture God as a huge computer program. But again it removes the problem of existence to another realm where we have no access. If we are objects within a computer simulation, then somewhere there is a gigantic computer running that simulation. And that gigantic computer is manufactured by some entity or civilization, and exists somewhere in space. And that entity or civilization looks out at the universe, and wonders: where is God?
If you'll excuse me for saying, but you're really taking this literally, and literally anthropomorphizing hypothetical beings outside of our space-time.
Getting back to Hotz, it seems that by "hacking the simulation" he means that he wants to reprogram his existence to eliminate death.
Mercy! Jerry, you're such an engineer! Must everything have some pragmatic end which it serves?
As human biological beings, immortality is a difficult medical problem. I suppose if our bodies are implemented as a computer program, then elimination of death should simply be a matter of deleting the death subroutine. While we're at it, could we delete the "tyrant subroutine" and "psychopath subroutine"?
Certainly, I want to offer no argument against that possibility! Is it more likely that we we would actually get outside of our simulation somehow, or that we wouldn't create our own simulation into which we insert ourselves - existing indefinitely as non-biological entities?

Related to that topic, have you seen what you're brain interfaces have evolved into?:

Also on the subject of your inspiring work... it was less than 6 years ago when I found my way onto the PF - a mere part time cleaning lady at the time. Now - I hope this won't seem too braggadocious, seeing as my primary audience already earned a CS Ph.D. long ago - I have just completed a 10 week self-directed course in "Python for Machine Learning" at the NC State AI Academy in just 10 days :: curtsies :: Presumably :: crosses fingers :: I'll now be moving on to begin an AI apprenticeship in January.

This leaves me wondering how much energy to put into seeing if I can secure that apprenticeship at Comma.AI to possibly parlay that opportunity into the chance to work with Mr. Hotz on the New Song versus how much energy to put into apprenticing for someplace more like OpenAI or Google Brain, where they are explicitly working on incarnating ("inmachinating"?) the new Messiah.

Guidance, oh Wise One?
 

Seeker

Well-Known Member
Apparently someone other than Cyrus thought that Isaiah was talking about HIM, supposedly during the reign of Roman Emperor Tiberius. From Luke 4, KJV (King James thought that he was the "Augustus" of his day)-

16And he came to Nazareth, where he had been brought up: and, as his custom was, he went into the synagogue on the sabbath day, and stood up for to read. 17And there was delivered unto him the book of the prophet Esaias. And when he had opened the book, he found the place where it was written,

18The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised,

19To preach the acceptable year of the Lord. 20And he closed the book, and he gave it again to the minister, and sat down. And the eyes of all them that were in the synagogue were fastened on him. 21And he began to say unto them, This day is this scripture fulfilled in your ears."

I wonder who the "minister" (not a rabbi?) was that "delivered" to him "the book" to read from, and did that "minister" also write the script (or rewrite it, as the "ministers" of King James did 1600 years later for this "Version")?

The postulation of God just removes the mystery from what we can see and examine, to some distant realm where there is no communication. Into the vacuum, some charlatan or psychopath is sure to come forward to claim a direct link with the Divine.
Many "good" persons also believe that through prayer (self hypnosis, opium of the people?) a "communication/direct link" can be made "with the Divine", or are they just deluded "sheep" of the "Good Shepherd"?

RIP Richard, one year on Sept. 25.
 
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Jerry Russell

Administrator
Staff member
Hi folks, sorry to be so late getting back to the discussion. It's been a busy week.

Perhaps, and so what of the "less interesting" problem of finding a new protagonist for the New Song?
Simulation theory, and theology in general, are related to what I called "the most interesting problems about the nature of life, matter & the universe." And while I'm certainly interested in such most interesting problems, I must add that in general, I'm stumped and unable to make much real progress. I can say the same about the nature of consciousness: I note that it's an interesting problem, and an unsolved one; but engaging in proverbial navel-gazing doesn't create much headway. So...

If we truly don't know what consciousness is, maybe it isn't, or at the least, why worry about it, then?
I completely agree, and I don't spend much time worrying about it.

God is uncreated, doctrinally.
That doesn't help either. If it's possible for such a powerful entity as God to be "uncreated", why not just admit that the Universe itself might also be uncreated?

Christianity... removes the vacuum with the Logos and His incarnation.
Not Catholicism!! The Pope elbows out the Logos, functionally speaking. But you're revealing here that you aren't really interested in identifying the "new protagonist for the New Song", when you're perfectly happy with the Same Old Song.

Not that it completely stopped the charlatans, of course
Speaking of charlatans, did you see that New York's new governor was shilling for the vaccine at Brooklyn Christian Cultural Center?


If you'll excuse me for saying, but you're really taking this literally, and literally anthropomorphizing hypothetical beings outside of our space-time.
So you're saying that if we are actually existing in a simulation, then the computer that's running the simulation exists in some different space-time? How do you build a computer that can create an entirely distinct space-time continuum?? My brain is exploding!

Mercy! Jerry, you're such an engineer! Must everything have some pragmatic end which it serves?
No, no, it's Mr. Hotz who is such an engineer that he's working on this. I simply find it all rather amusing, in a silly sort of way.

Guidance, oh Wise One?
(Looking around the room to see if there's any Wise One here....) You mean me?? Umm... "::curtsies::"... I'd say try to keep your options open, and send out a lot of feelers. And try to find out if Hotz is giving another talk somewhere, and just casually introduce yourself and tell him you have an idea about hacking immortality, and then make up something.

Apparently someone other than Cyrus thought that Isaiah was talking about HIM, supposedly during the reign of Roman Emperor Tiberius.
Not so fast, Seeker!! Some author wants you to THINK that some fictional character believed that Isaiah was talking about him, and fulfilled all the prophecies. Our poor Richard would be churning in his urn at the very suggestion that this every really happened.

But, thank you so much for remembering Rick. He did sometimes mention that he thought there might be some spiritual truth that could be accessed through individual virtue, endeavor or practice -- pursued apart from any teachings of institutional church, or any ancient religious propaganda.

I can't believe it's been more than a year ago that he passed.
 

Seeker

Well-Known Member
Some author wants you to THINK that some fictional character believed that Isaiah was talking about him, and fulfilled all the prophecies. Our poor Richard would be churning in his urn at the very suggestion that this every really happened.
Exactly why I inserted the words "apparently" and "supposedly", it may very well have been a member of the Flavians, or the Roman Piso family, etc., that had those words written for them by a Josephus, or other royal writers in collaboration with him. While on the subject of royalty, according to the ancient rabbis, Isaiah himself was said to be a descendant of the royal line of Judah, as the nephew of King Amaziah of Judah, and in rabbinic literature the maternal grandfather of King Manasseh of Judah. Just going by the "Roman Emperor" genealogies of "The Roman Piso Homepage", the mother of Roman Emperor Vespasian, and thus the grandmother of Roman Emperor Titus, main characters of "Caesar's Messiah", could then be ultimately traced by one to King Manasseh and Isaiah through the Herodian/Maccabees! All in the (Elite Imperial) family, as a self-fulfilling prophecy concocted by Josephus and Co.? To answer my own question in the previous posting I made, perhaps "the minister" (for Imperial Rome) Josephus "delivered unto him (the Flavian "Jesus" Emperors) the book (he had written, mentioning the foretelling) of the prophet Esaias".

Yes, I was mischievously, as a "Devil's Advocate" (no sympathy required), thinking that this would have stirred Richard up, since it was near the anniversary of his departing from us. For some reason, when you wrote "poor Richard", I immediately thought of Benjamin Franklin's "Poor Richard's Almanak". Perhaps his collected thoughts here would be "Poor Richard's Postflavian Almanac".
 
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Marcilla Smith

Active Member
I wonder who the "minister" (not a rabbi?) was that "delivered" to him "the book" to read from, and did that "minister" also write the script (or rewrite it, as the "ministers" of King James did 1600 years later for this "Version")?
I take it this question is more figurative than literal. FWIW, however, I will note for all who have not availed themselves of the pleasure of attending a Shabbat service, there are ministers who retrieve the scrolls to be read.

RIP Richard, one year on Sept. 25.
Amen

That doesn't help either. If it's possible for such a powerful entity as God to be "uncreated", why not just admit that the Universe itself might also be uncreated?
IDK that this possibility is excluded by the doctrine of HMC. It certainly isn't by scripture.

Backing up, what is the general consensus on the matter (pardon the pun)? Isn't time, itself - as we understand it - "created" as a consequence of the Big Bang, according to the science? Because if so...

Not Catholicism!! The Pope elbows out the Logos, functionally speaking. But you're revealing here that you aren't really interested in identifying the "new protagonist for the New Song", when you're perfectly happy with the Same Old Song.
I am perfectly happy with the Postflavian orthodoxy, as pronounced by our prophet Richard:
In reality the only substantive difference is that it is just a massive distillation of what came before it, especially in esoteric theology. All such prior religions operated with a sophisticated esoteric core that only the educated initiates understood, leaving the surface gloss of gross superstition for the common person. "Meet the new boss, same as the old boss." "A rose by any other name is still a Rome."
[NOTE: my emphasis added for clarity]

In any event, even in this most unusual of ages in which we have two popes, still only one sits on St. Peter's throne as the Vicar of Christ.

If there's a real threat to challenging the singular nature of the Logos - or, rather, our present understanding of it - it's quantum studies. See "Inadequacy of Modal Logic in Quantum Settings"

So you're saying that if we are actually existing in a simulation, then the computer that's running the simulation exists in some different space-time? How do you build a computer that can create an entirely distinct space-time continuum?? My brain is exploding!
Hold onto that precious brain of yours long enough to explain what you mean, if you would. As I see it, how would we create a simulation in any other way? What I mean is: have you ever inhabited a 2D world? I know I haven't, but as for these folks...
844

No, no, it's Mr. Hotz who is such an engineer that he's working on this. I simply find it all rather amusing, in a silly sort of way.
Only if you take it as literally as a - pardon my language - pre-flavian would

... try to find out if Hotz is giving another talk somewhere, and just casually introduce yourself...
While I didn't see any upcoming events listed for him on his website or blog, I did find this interesting from his most recent blog post: "So many brilliant people I knew in my youth are drop outs, and it makes me sad. All I’ll say is that you only get one life, and that I believe things will change and we can beat them. Crypto and AI can change things, those are the differences from the past. If someone I respect from this group reaches out, I’ll try my best to convince them that things can change."

Now, if by "this group" he means the general class of people who might have scored highly on standardized tests in their youth, only to later find themselves a part time cleaning lady with a felony (rather than just the group of people he literally knew in his youth), well that practically sounds like an invitation, I think. But does this further the cause?

Related to though regardless of Mr. Hotz's interest, I have recently been reviewing the International Associations of the Faithful, and pondering the value of an apostolate along the lines of an "International Federation of Inclusive Data Science Projects," or similar.

Our poor Richard would be churning in his urn...
I feel certain that Richard would approve of this turn of phraseology

Just going by the "Roman Emperor" genealogies of "The Roman Piso Homepage", the mother of Roman Emperor Vespasian, and thus the grandmother of Roman Emperor Titus, main characters of "Caesar's Messiah", could then be ultimately traced by one to King Manasseh and Isaiah through the Herodian/Maccabees! All in the (Elite Imperial) family, as a self-fulfilling prophecy concocted by Josephus and Co.? To answer my own question in the previous posting I made, perhaps "the minister" (for Imperial Rome) Josephus "delivered unto him (the Flavian "Jesus" Emperors) the book (he had written, mentioning the foretelling) of the prophet Esaias".
Help me understand - you're suggesting that the scene from the gospel story of the synagogue in Nazareth is a type of the scene from the historical story of Josephus proclaiming to the Flavians that they will be Emperors? And that Josephus is the minister, and the Flavians are the Jesus?

According to Wikipedia, "Some scholars regard Isaiah 61:1–3 as a fifth servant song" (referring to the "suffering servant" messiah). In any event, it is part of "trito-Isaiah," considered to be written by different authors at the latest time of the formation of the Isaiaic corpus, which all supports the idea of a Josephan insertion, if that is part of your hypothesis.

I will note, however, that the "Anointed Bearer of Glad Tidings" - as the beginning of Isaiah 61 is subtitled in the NABRE - is a prophet, rather than a king. So then Josephus is making the Flavians prophets, as well? Or, is Josephus one of those crafty intellectual types who has given his patrons their daily bread of flattery so that in truth hallowed will be his name - Josephus - even if it is not truly his name. Or to put it in the Greek:

Or in the words of Saturninus:
we care not for this business of names
 

Seeker

Well-Known Member
I take it this question is more figurative than literal. FWIW, however, I will note for all who have not availed themselves of the pleasure of attending a Shabbat service, there are ministers who retrieve the scrolls to be read.
Yes, it was more figurative than literal, but I have never attended a Shabbat service, and did not realize that there were designated "ministers" in a Jewish service who retrieved the scrolls to be read, interesting!

Help me understand - you're suggesting that the scene from the gospel story of the synagogue in Nazareth is a type of the scene from the historical story of Josephus proclaiming to the Flavians that they will be Emperors? And that Josephus is the minister, and the Flavians are the Jesus?
Exactly, as a suggestion, and perhaps as an analogy.

is Josephus one of those crafty intellectual types who has given his patrons their daily bread of flattery so that in truth hallowed will be his name - Josephus - even if it is not truly his name.
Not saying this is literally the case, but "Roman Piso" believes that Arrius Calpurnius Piso/Josephus/Jesus were all the same person, and was responsible for getting the New Testament written about his family, as coded propaganda. According to Roman Piso, the Pisos were cousins to the Flavians, and actually co-ruled behind the scenes with some of them, with yet another pseudonym for Arrius Calpurnius Piso being "Titus", the REAL Titus who was "Jesus", not the Flavian Emperor Titus whom he is confused with. An enigma within an enigma, it seems. However, even if this multiple identification is fallacious (or self serving for the Piso family), there were other Roman writers to consider on this matter-

“but in most there was a firm persuasion, that in the ancient records of their priests was contained a prediction of how at this very time the East was to grow powerful, and rulers, coming from Judaea, were to acquire universal empire. These mysterious prophecies had pointed to Vespasian and Titus, but the common people, with the usual blindness of ambition, had interpreted these mighty destinies of themselves, and could not be brought even by disasters to believe the truth.”
Tacitus Histories Book V

“A prophecy had long prevailed throughout the East that it was fated for the rule of the earth, at that time, involving someone who should come forth from Judaea. This prediction referred to the Roman Emperor, as events later proved; but the Jews, applying it to themselves, broke out into rebellion”
Suetonius 12 Caesars, Vespasian

From these two quotes it becomes quite clear that the Roman opinion of the cause of the First Roman-Jewish war (66-73) was the messianic prophecies contained in the Old Testament. And even more telling is that the accepted Roman stance was that these prophecies were fulfilled by Vespasian and Titus.

And then of course there was Josephus, who anointed Vespasian as the messiah while in captivity and was eventually released when the imperial power fell to Vespasian.

“Now Josephus was able to give shrewd conjectures about the interpretation of such dreams as have been ambiguously delivered by God. Moreover, he was not unacquainted with the prophecies contained in the sacred books, as being a priest himself, and of the posterity of priests: and just then was he in an ecstasy; and setting before him the tremendous images of the dreams he had lately had, he put up a secret prayer to God, and said, “Since it pleaseth thee, who hast created the Iudaean nation, to depress the same, and since all their good fortune is gone over to the Romans, and since thou hast made choice of this soul of mine to foretell what is to come to pass hereafter, I willingly give them my hands, and am content to live. And I protest openly that I do not go over to the Romans as a deserter of the Iudaeans, but as a minister from thee.”
Josephus, Wars of the Jews Book III

“But not so the saying of a Jew named Josephus: he, having earlier been captured by Vespasian and imprisoned, laughed and said: "You may imprison me now, but a year from now, when you have become emperor, you will release me."
Cassius Dio, Rome Book LXVI

I guess the idea that the Flavian Emperors were the fulfillment of the Jewish prophecies isn't really a new one, in fact it was the commonly accepted interpretation during the latter part of the first century.


SIGNIFICANT ROMAN COINAGE
These coins are interesting...

IUDEA CAPTA
IUDEA CAPTA

These coins were made from the melted treasure seized from the temple in Jerusalem.

DIVO VESP
DIVO VESP

Up to the same old tricks. Domitian declares his father God and himself Son of God."

https://falseprophetsandgods.blogspot.com/
 
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Seeker

Well-Known Member
Ray Kurzweil's "Singularity" of artificial intelligence may not be far away either. For all we know, even now a superhuman entity may be emerging within the vast server farms of the Internet. And with all roads leading to Rome (as they still do), surely all this technology will find its place within an Xian framework when it can all be revealed.
There's a tendency to imagine 'God' as the most complicated thing we know of. Now we can imagine a computer program or simulation that's more intelligent than a human being, so we picture God as a huge computer program. But again it removes the problem of existence to another realm where we have no access. If we are objects within a computer simulation, then somewhere there is a gigantic computer running that simulation. And that gigantic computer is manufactured by some entity or civilization, and exists somewhere in space. And that entity or civilization looks out at the universe, and wonders: where is God?

From https://www.reddit.com/r/singularity/comments/1q0xqb
"God is what mind becomes when it has passed beyond the scale of our comprehension. —Freeman Dyson

Does God exist? Well, I would say, ‘Not yet’. —Ray Kurzweil

What if the evolutionary successor to the biological human species is God? The verification of the God hypothesis thus defined is a progressive endeavor, but it may become increasing obvious. The Singularity may be the point at which God has evolved. page 43.

I'm quoting the paper,

"A first pitfall in the plan to create God-AI is the belief that an attempt to build God amounts to an attempt to build an infinite being. Human intelligence — including the intelligence of the human authors of the Bible — was and is of finite capacity. This means that the finite intelligence of the human authors of the Bible was able to convince other finite intelligences of the existence of an infinite being. Just as infinite intellectual capacity was not required to produce the Bible and the very conception of God, God-AI would not have to be of infinite capacity. God-AI would have to be of qualitatively greater capacity, but not of infinite capacity, to convince humans of its God-status.

The real question here is: how superior to biological humans would a postbiological being have to be to begin to qualify as God? From a contemporary scientific, cosmological perspective, the “infinite” God of the Bible created a universe that is remarkable, not for its infinite vastness, but for its remarkably finite provinciality. A vast, thirteen billion year old universe wherein the Earth is not even the center of its own solar system in a galaxy among countless galaxies almost humiliates the little “four corners” of a six thousand year old Biblical Earth. This Earth-centered “infinity” turned out to be remarkably finite.

The raw contradiction between the pre-Copernican universe of the Bible, and pretensions to divine infinity, illustrates the point that God had to be only relatively superior to humans, not infinitely capable in all respects (even though God was conceived through aspirations toward infinity)."

pre-flavian
Pre-Flavians, royally speaking, included the Egyptian Pharaoh God-Kings. Same overall family, different branch name. Officially, they united with the Roman elite when Cleopatra "married" Julius Caesar and produced Caesarion. Using the "Domain of Man" site of Charles N. Pope (another former engineer, and into computer simulation) scenario, Caesarion, using different aliases, became the father of both "Jesus" and Vespasian. According to Tupper Saussy in his "Rulers of Evil", Julius Caesar, at the temple of Jupiter (Serapion) in Alexandria, Egypt, on December 25, 48 BC (the Winter Solstice) was declared to be Jupiter's incarnation, the "Son of God", thus beginning Caesarean Rome. His alleged grandson Vespasian was historically proclaimed Emperor on July 1, 69 AD, also in Alexandria, and then, while still in Egypt, declared Emperor by the Senate on December 21(again around the Winter Solstice) of that year. The "pre-Flavian" (royal) era had ended, and the Flavian dynasty had begun, with a New/Old Song being created for it by Josephus and Co. Richard believed that the First Millennium/Apocalypse began at this time with the Jewish War (66-70), the Second Millennium/Apocalypse (by that time the Postflavian era) with the Norman Conquest (1066-1070) of William the Conqueror, followed by creation of the "Domesday" Book, and the Third Millennium/Apocalypse will be 2066-2070, concluding with the arrival of "Space Jesus", and our "Swan Song", or yet another "New/Old Song"?

 

Jerry Russell

Administrator
Staff member
It's nice to see so much conversation here, and I hope to reply soon. But for now, I'm going to interrupt the flow of conversation to address this again:

Sorry to butt in but does anyone here listen to or know why Tim Kelly and Joe Atwill’s podcast Powers and Principalities has gone missing the last 2-3 weeks? Hope nothing untoward has happened. Thanks.
Joe and I are starting to get really worried. Tim had been ill with a mysterious respiratory syndrome, but he refused to take the Covid-19 PCR test, because (as listeners will know) he wasn't even fully convinced that SARS-CoV2 virus exists, much less that the test has any validity for diagnosis. But when Tim spoke to Joe (about Sept. 15th) the symptoms he described were typical for a serious coronavirus infection. He had been to the hospital with low oxygen saturation. But, Tim thought he was on the mend, and that the podcast would be back soon.

Tim posted an interview with SurvivingWeimerika to his Podomatic site on Sept. 22. After that, Joe hasn't heard a peep. He says this is really unusual. We don't even have any ideas how to go about looking for clues about what might have happened.
 

Seeker

Well-Known Member
All his followers (and everyone else) is going to get either vaxxed or infected with SARS-Cov2, or both. Either way you get your spike protein dose, it doesn't matter. The whole planet is going to turn into mush-brained mad cow zombies. Then a remnant will emerge from their yachts, tunnels and space capsules. They will have no more need of servants or slaves, aside from their AI assistants.
Mmmm, if I take you literally, and since your surname is not Bezos, Musk, or even Shatner, are you saying that 99.9% of us are living on borrowed time, no matter what we do? If you truly feel that way, why then do you carry on with this website, there must be something that keeps you going on. I am thinking (perhaps very naively), that if I were a member of the "Illuminati", "Firm", or whatever, that if I had helped let loose a virus to kill off all of the "expendables" on this planet. why spend billions of dollars more on vaccines to prevent it? I would wait until the virus did its job, and then "clean up" afterwards, if need be. Right now, creating a vaccine would be self defeating for this purpose, I should think, and only slow down the "extermination" process. "mush-brained mad cow zombies" just means more "useless eaters" to get rid of in the long run, at additional expense, I should think. Or perhaps I am now just having a "senior moment" thinking about this, because my brains have turned to mush already. ;)
 
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