Meet YHWH Pilgrims

Discussion in 'Old Testament - False Dialectic' started by Richard Stanley, Jul 21, 2016.

  1. Richard Stanley

    Richard Stanley Administrator

    I decided I had better make this a new thread considering its importance. This will connect the dots from our discussion of God's names in the first two OT analysis posts all the way to Amarna. I was getting worried, as I was re-reading the Secrets of the Exodus that we may have to make some edits in this regard, but it turns out not to be the case with the names of God, at least.

    I had obtained this book back in the post-9/11 days when Jerry and I started working together on that business. I definitely do not remember reading this section, which comes at the end of the book, after their rehash [sic] of the Exodus proper. It seemed more like an appendix to me and thus I must have skipped over it. I wish I had noticed this before, but it becomes rather satisfying to view this in light of the previous analysis of the OT patriarchs.

    Also, last night I happened to watch a Premillenialist documentary on the ancient city of Petra as relates to their Biblical Prophecy. I had seen others claim that Petra was the place where Moses and friends had hung out, waiting for the right time to Conquer the Promised Land. The narrator of this documentary laid out an impressive list of characters who had visited or stayed at Petra at one time or another. This included an 18th Dynasty pharaoh or two.

    This also included that the city, in Biblical Edom (now Jordan), was supposed (by some) to have been founded by Esau, that ruddy, red-headed twin of Jacob. And that Paul and the Herodians had been there. The Herodians were Idumeans, another way of saying Edomites.

    So from Secrets of the Exile, Chapter 25, Culture of the Nile, page 259, the Sabbahs begin by asserting that the 'Yahud' originated in Egypt. And that these people were the (a) priesthood of at least the time of Amenhotep III. I suggest that maybe they were something like a 'personal prelature' like today's Opus Dei is for the Vatican.

    They mention that the Hebrew Yehuda (for Judah) is a theophoric name, containing reference to 'Yahwe'. And that Judah was the son of Leah, as was Levi. Leah was the 'hated wife' of Jacob, the preferred being Rachel. The Sabbahs claim that the Yahud were indeed monotheistic priests, based upon the root words, 'Hodah' and 'Yahu', meaning 'praise God'. This, of course, begs the question of the relationship of the Levites to the Yahuds then in regards to priesthood status. Whatever the case, this may help answer the question of why Judea was considered a nation of priests.

    A nation of priests yet needs common people to handle the mundane tasks of life, and here the Sabbahs provide that the city of Akhet-aten had to have had various common peoples such as trademen and craftsmen, etc.. But here they also explain that a nomadic tribe of Semites, named the Shasu, had earlier been brought to Egypt by Tuthmoses II as prisoners of war. In a temple (Soleb) in northern Sudan today, built by Amenhotep III, was found an inscription reading, "The house of Yahu in Shasu land."

    Amenhotep IV (later to be Akhenaten) had visited the temple of Soleb and was depicted venerating his father, as did subsequent 18th Dynasty pharaohs. BTW, this depiction was altered by Akhenaton, and then reversed by Tut (and Ay). Also, it should be remembered that it was Amenhotep III who first declared himself to literally be god, rather than just a pope like intermediary.

    'Shasu land' was in Edom, and, as I mentioned above, this is one prime location suggested as to where the Biblical exiles were to have hung out, till the time that Moses died, letting Joshua fulfill the Conquest. In fact, with regard to Petra, there are several shrines named after Musa or Moses. Including a spring, claimed to be the one where Moses struck a rock and water sprang forth.

    As discussed in the first two OT posts regarding the names of God, it was mentioned that the name Yahweh is likely to have originated in Edom, later to wind up in Judea. With this information, and combined with the Sabbah brothers' exodus scenario (which I've yet to finish), we can now see the likely exact path of transmission and just why Yahu / Yahweh became the chosen vehicle to launch the monotheist project. This name adding a layer of insulating obfuscation as to Egypt being the true source of the monotheisim originating in Akhet-aten. Also, remember that this is the name which is not to be spoken. perhaps as this becomes the linking thread, then this was what was most important to obscure?

    They explain that the roots for Yahudah are Yahu-Daeh and are found in the Egyptian words Yahu-Dueh, meaning adoration, prayer, homage, and giving praise. sounds like a priestly type of name. But were the Shasu really the Yahud, or were thy just a convenient metaphorical mule of sorts to transport the concept?

    They provide the hieroglyphic word for Yahut (or Yahud) which breaks down to "divine heritage, function, mission". Hmmm

    They discuss French scholar Fabre d'Olivet on page 260:

    Fabre d'Olivet emphasizes that the Hebrew Yahud relates to "the heir": "Divine emanation, God-given: that is the name of the Jewish people or the ones from Judah, from which it derives." So, it follows that the Yahud priests are the heirs of the Egyptian tradition. The Yahud symbol is found on the hand of the first of the Yahuds, the high priest, Pharaoh.

    Oh dear!!!

    Now were the Shasu capable of becoming Pharaoh? Seems dubious to me and unfortunately, here again the book is a little ambiguous. Perhaps this is just another problem that the French to English translators had. As further on they state on page 263:

    ... Only the Yahud priests had the authority to write a name like that on the temple columns. The Shasu did not have the right to practice sacred writing. Consequently, Yahu is one of the divine names of the god-king Amenhotep III. Yah is written on the two lions of of Soleb.

    The Sabbahs forgot to mention that the lion is the symbol for the tribe of Judah.

    Amenhotep III had the temple built for his cult focused on himself as god. This is one more reason to consider that Amenhotep III played a role in setting up the Amarna ruse, and launching the first phase of what became the Western False Dialectic as Jerry and I are describing it. As I have mentioned recently, he played an important role regarding a uniquely detailed trip to Mycenaea. Of which I think will play a role in the downstream collapse of the Late Bronze Age involving the curious Sea People, where the sophisticated Philistines end up in Canaan, blending peacefully with the Canaanites (who might also be some of the Hyksos from earlier).

    I'll try to add in some pics of the hieroglyphs tomorrow.

  2. Jerry Russell

    Jerry Russell Administrator Staff Member

    Well, I'll be a Chimpig's uncle. I've been guilty of conflating Nabateans, Nubians, Edomites and Idumaeans in my muddled brain, and thinking that Petra was much further south, located somewhere vaguely on the Arabian peninsula or maybe the Sudan. So actually, Idumaea during the time of the Maccabees was a tiny little area located about 50 miles from Jerusalem, and Petra is just another 50 miles south, half way between the Dead Sea and the Gulf of Aqaba, near the center of ancient Edom ~600 BCE. During subsequent centuries, the Edomites retreated into Idumaea (the northwest corner of former Edom) and the Nabateans arrived by sometime around 300 BCE. And, Nubians have absolutely nothing to do with any of this (no duh.)

    I have always had trouble picturing King Herod as a Nubian, so now I feel much better.

    But considering that these Edomites aka Idumaeans aka Shasu are described as a semitic people, how can they have red hair like Esau? Does the package include pale skin and green eyes? Or is this quacking like another ethnic identity scam?


    Red = Edom at its greatest extent, ~600 BCE
    Dark red = classical Idumaea
    Last edited: Jul 22, 2016
  3. Richard Stanley

    Richard Stanley Administrator

    Nubian? Maybe what you really heard was 'new being'? Yes - Identity Scam(s)

    I didn't think I said the Shasu were red headed, but rather that the temple art work shows them as classical Semites. As I stated on the other (Akhnaten) thread, the Mitanni are believed to have been an Aryan royalty. Considering how the Egyptians were supposedly so protective of the bloodline, that the Mitanni were able to insert one of their own into the pharaonic lineage is remarkable. Ironically this bloodline business played a role in the request of Tut's widow to the Hittite's to provide a prince for her. As I said before the Hittite king could not believe this request.

    There is also a theory that the Kassites were originally of the Kashatriya warrior caste, who took over Sumeria.
  4. Jerry Russell

    Jerry Russell Administrator Staff Member

    Are you assuming here that the Pharaonic lineage was Semitic rather than Indo-European, aside from this Mitanni injection? My working theory is more along the lines that the royals of those times were various branches of the Indo-European founder line, breeding only with close relatives. Perhaps they were able to identify close relatives by skin and hair color, even after memory of common ancestry was lost. All of these white caucasian red-haired rulers were lording it over their diverse herds, and playing these ethnic identity scams.

    But it's also possible that even then, the royals were very cosmopolitan and willing to do whatever was necessary to cement convenient alliances with neighboring kingdoms -- up to and including mixed-breed marriages.
  5. Richard Stanley

    Richard Stanley Administrator

    I don't know what the Egyptian kings were originally. Some people believe they were descended from the Cro-Magnon survivors of Atlantis. Whatever the case, I think that Geoffry Ashes's theory about origins in the Altai Mountains for some clan of peoples that sound much like these red headed peoples that De Vere discusses sounds like the leading candidate to me, at least as infiltrators into the Egyptian lineage. De Vere claims that they established themselves across a wide swath of geography as the rulers over the respective lands.
  6. Richard Stanley

    Richard Stanley Administrator

    I'm having some technical issues taking pictures of the hieroglyphs, and am going to use a friend's scanner hopefully. In the meantime:

    I need to clarify here that the word meanings above stem from the manner in which hieroglyphics work, not only (in some cases) as phonetic symbols as we are used to for our alphabets, but as semiotic, abstract ideograms for concepts or objects.

    On page 260 the authors provide the phonetic characters to spell YA(OU)(T or D), or perhaps more accurately IA(OU)(T or D) followed by the ideogram representing the same conceptual word, listed as 'iaut'. Everyone knows that Judea and similar is also sometimes spelled with an 'I', as in Iudea, or Yudea. Same result.

    As such, I wonder if anyone can offer a means to apply this term, of a divine office, as to being applied generally to a bunch of rude nomadic Semite (literal) shepherds (known as the Shasu), who were taken prisoner by an earlier 18th Dynasty king.

    I suggest that the phrase, "The house of Yahu in Shasu land", found in Amenhotep III's personal cult temple (at Soleb) really refers to to some situation established by Tuthmose II or later within "Shasu land". Perhaps to a family of such Egyptian priests that had been sent there or even some vassal placed in power there, maybe married to someone in the Egyptian priesthood.

    The Wikipedia link only seems to provide primary meanings and not secondary, so we still need to confirm the Sabbah brothers' meanings of "divine heritage, function, and mission from the individual characters.

    Just found this link for the book:
  7. Richard Stanley

    Richard Stanley Administrator

    In reading more of Barbiero's Secret Society of Moses he mentions Yahweh being derived from the Egyptian god, Yah, or Iah. And that the name Sinai probably relates to Sin, the Mesopotamian mood god.

    Iah ( Egyptian: Jˁḥ, transliterated as Yah, Jah, Jah(w), Joh or Aah [2]) is a lunar deity in ancient Egyptian religion. His name simply means "Moon". By the New Kingdom, he was less prominent than other gods with lunar connections, Thoth and Khonsu. As a result of the functional connection between them he could be identified with either of those deities.

    He was sometimes considered an adult form of Khonsu and was increasingly absorbed by him. Iah continued to appear in amulets and occasional other representations, similar to Khonsu in appearance, with the same lunar symbols on his head and occasionally the same tight garments. He differed in usually wearing a full wig instead of a child's sidelock, and sometimes the Atef topped by another symbol.[3] As time went on, Iah also became Iah-Djuhty, meaning "god of the new moon."[4]

    One can find a fair amount of debate on whether Yah is Yahweh or not. Here is one video:

    The show host names an Egyptian princess that is taken on tour of Canaan, and who has Yah appended to her name. Hmmm

    The video lists several bible passages that discuss the Jewish moon festivals and such.

    Here is one from Isaiah 66 that is also globalist, and apocalyptic (the new earth):

    22For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, saith the LORD, so shall your seed and your name remain.
    23And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the LORD.
    24And they shall go forth, and look upon the carcases of the men that have transgressed against me: for their worm shall not die, neither shall their fire be quenched; and they shall be an abhorring unto all flesh.​

    If Yahweh was a pre-existing Canaanite minor god, then he would be perfect to have been syncretized with the Egyptian Yah, especially if the former had some lunar association.

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