Ken Kesey on trial: Allan Weisbecker's debate challenge

[Jerry Russell]

Allan's hit piece on us has now been posted, here:

http://blog.banditobooks.com/an-important-post/

I'd like to make just two quick observations:

1) Allan whines incessantly about being censored here and at Jan's site, but his own site is not open for comments of any kind, from anyone.

2)Allan says about us (Jan, Joe and I):

If something untoward happens to me in the near future, these people are likely behind it.

And further:

If you three are dirty and have the power to do so, I suggest you have me neutralized before tomorrow around noon; that is when I will make public all that has gone down between us in the last few days, starting with Irvin’s blocking of me from posting my below comment on Gnosticmedia.com, a post that clearly exposes some of the untruths (lies, actually) you’ve spread about Kesey (and Salinger). You’ve accused me of the same crime as you do these two fine writers, i.e., being a government agent and a betrayer of my readers and my generation. Tomorrow I will contact every media outlet through which you have spread your lies.

Needless to say, we are not going to "neutralize" Allan before noon tomorrow. As to whether Allan is a government agent and/or a betrayer of his readers and his generation, all I can say is that we too are curious about who Allan Weisbecker is, or why he is throwing around these wild accusations -- but I, for one, doubt that anyone is paying him for his efforts. As always, the readers (if any) are invited to draw their own conclusions.

 

[Joe Atwill]

"Neutralize" him? We should promote him. His efforts will cause more people to read the analysis and listen to the podcasts. His attempt to show me as a liar for claiming Kesey gave out LSD will simply be seen as absurd by the public. Moreover his egomania and crude sophistry make him an ideal foil. Notice above he claims we have accused him of the "same crime" as Salinger and Kesey. Of course the crime we accused them of was helping to bring about the counter culture not merely being an "agent". ( I doubt he is is an agent; he seems simply unbalanced.)

I also think his self-aggrandizing concern that we might "off' to silence his criticism will also be seen as obvious self promotion by the public. Particulary after he reveals his criticism, which will be rubbish.

What would be wonderful is if "media outlets" actually pick up the story. I doubt this will happen but one can hope. It would be fitting if Allan's efforts helped the nation to focus on the goverment's role in the creation of the counter culture and the 'Lifetime Actors' they used to lead it.

Joe

 

[Jerry Russell]

Here's the complete quote from Kesey in Magic Trip regarding CIA funding of the drug supply for the counterculture:

All of these drugs were being fed into the culture by the CIA. The LSD was not the whole story. I didn't believe it for a long time. While Allen Ginsberg says, "You know who was paying for that was the CIA." I said, "Oh no, Allen, you're just paranoid." But he finally got all the records, and it did turn out the CIA was doing this, and it wasn't being done to try to cure insane people, which is what we thought. It was being done to weaken people and to be able to put them under the control of interrogators. I was so naive. I believed these doctors knew what they were doing. You know, this is the American government. How could they make a mistake."

Isn't he protesting a bit too much here? This is the author of "One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest" which was a blatant attack on psychiatric use of electroshock and other coercions in mental hospitals. So how likely is it that Kesey had this naive and touching faith in psychiatric doctors and the American government? And he admits that Allen Ginsberg was telling him the CIA was paying for all the drugs. So where did Kesey think the drugs were coming from? If he didn't ask the question, would this be willful blindness?

 

[Jerry Russell]

And here is a web page discussing the provenance of the audio tape of Kesey's first acid trip at the VA hospital. Article by Remco Vlaanderen, © Submarine Channel, a film production company based in Amsterdam.

http://www.watchthetitles.com/articles/00220-Magic_Trip

“Alex [Gibney] said, 'Listen, I found this audio tape when I was rooting around Kesey's archive. It's a tape of him taking part in actual government drug trials,'” [Karin] Fong recalls. “Kesey would be taking the drug, and then you'd hear the nurse come in and ask him about it. There were no visuals whatsoever for this. Not even a photograph.”

 

[Wolfsire]

"Neutralize" him? We should promote him. His efforts will cause more people to read the analysis and listen to the podcasts. His attempt to show me as a liar for claiming Kesey gave out LSD will simply be seen as absurd by the public. Moreover his egomania and crude sophistry make him an ideal foil. Notice above he claims we have accused him of the "same crime" as Salinger and Kesey. Of course the crime we accused them of was helping to bring about the counter culture not merely being an "agent". ( I doubt he is is an agent; he seems simply unbalanced.)

I also think his self-aggrandizing concern that we might "off' to silence his criticism will also be seen as obvious self promotion by the public. Particulary after he reveals his criticism, which will be rubbish.

What would be wonderful is if "media outlets" actually pick up the story. I doubt this will happen but one can hope. It would be fitting if Allan's efforts helped the nation to focus on the goverment's role in the creation of the counter culture and the 'Lifetime Actors' they used to lead it.

Joe

Yep. That is how it is coming across. Further, AW's disclosure of being a former drug runner and Hollywood connected author places him in very dishonest shoes. The former brings to mind Terence McKenna's confession of being turned. Regarding Kensey not being an "agent," it seems that there may be a broad spectrum of "lifetime actors" based on ability, need to know, acceptable compensation/consideration, degree of self-delusion, willingness to lie about some things if not others, etc.

 

[Joe Atwill]

Wolfsire

I agree. There must be some method by which they control the different levels and the information given at each one. Probably like the levels of Freemasonry Salinger describes but with changes possible for the different organizations. In other words high levels of Freemasoanry would not always have info available to CIA etc. Let me know if you come across more information on this as it is something the citizens need to understand.

Joe

 

[Jerry Russell]

Two threads on Allan's Ken Kesey Debate Challenge have been combined.