Well, we have just sunk to the current nadir of Cultural Degradation. All by Machiavellian sleight of hand.

Trump was right, the election was rigged, but the joke was on his base ... because he was part of it. Regardless of whether one likes the policies of Obama or not, Obama is credited with igniting Trump's drive to run, via his brutal birther joke focused on Trump at the annual Nation Press Club function. Obama could not be bothered to engage with Congress beyond a perfunctory level, and when aggressively rejected by such as Mitch McConnell ("It is my primary goal to destroy this President.") he did nothing in return. In contrast, Trump will not hesitate to bitch-whip Congress like he did to his Republican rivals in the primaries. Ironically, many Trump policies will not be to the Right's liking.

Now, we have a vulva grabbing adulterous President, acclaimed by Russia's Neo-Stalin, all the while they are spreading nude pictures of our First (illegal immigrant) Lady to Be across the global Interwebz.

On this thread is a picture of Bubba Clinton in Trump's luxury football box with his arm around Melania. The Clintons attended the Trump's marriage, play golf together (while trading locker room talk). And there is a pic out there of Hillary and Trump beaming happily at each other at the Al Smith Dinner, contrary to the otherwise tense attitude we were provided with.

He promised his base that he would put Crooked Hillary in prison (for her felonies), but now he is agreeing to work with "Secretary Clinton".

Trump will likely make the trains run on time, once again, and when the moment is right, he and Putin will have a falling out. But before this there will likely be a Reichstag Fire that will consolidate his power as Dick Titus.
 
One can only hope that all of this Reductio Ad Hitlerum turns out to be overwrought. If Trump is best of friends with the Clintons, he might not be so much worse than Hillary would have been. Also consider whether by Godwin's Law, it was inevitable that this would come up.

Trump's plan for his first 100 days in office is here:

https://assets.donaldjtrump.com/_landings/contract/O-TRU-102316-Contractv02.pdf

His proposals are somewhat moderated from earlier. Instead of removing all illegal immigrants, he just wants to remove the ones with criminal records. And instead of blocking all Muslims from entering the country, he wants "extreme vetting", whatever that means.

He says he's pulling out of TPP and re-negotiating or cancelling NAFTA. We can get behind that, right? If there's any real follow-through, would we begin to suspect that our model of Trump as a closet globalist is not being verified by the facts?
 
Godwin's Law has already been dismissed recently on this thread.

Trump has always had some proposals that would generally be a good thing for the "nation". That was a main part of his appeal, the "little bit of sugar that makes the medicine go down ..." Time and actions will tell. Hitler had years to maneuver before the war started.
 
Godwin's Law has already been dismissed recently on this thread.

OK, so he's been duly noted. But Godwin didn't exactly say he thinks Donald Trump deserves the comparison, any more than any other politician.

So here's a Bayesian frame for the question. Out of all politicians that have ruled over major countries over the past several thousand years, what percentage have been at the level of Hitler's evil or worse? In other words, what are the odds?

And, is it necessary for a political career to end in ignominious defeat, in order for the evaluation as 'a Hitler' to be historically validated? How many American politicians would be evaluated as 'Hitlers' if Native Americans were writing the history books?
 
OK, so he's been duly noted. But Godwin didn't exactly say he thinks Donald Trump deserves the comparison, any more than any other politician.
He said that his aim was to encourage such comparisons as Frank Rich's, and mine, to have some depth and context to them, rather than the typically gratuitous ones.

Of course, being asked is whether the old Trump or the new Trump will show up for work. We are in uncharted territory on several levels.

So here's a Bayesian frame for the question. Out of all politicians that have ruled over major countries over the past several thousand years, what percentage have been at the level of Hitler's evil or worse? In other words, what are the odds?
None of those prior leaders kept a copy of Mein Kampf on their nightstand, so these are unfair questions. :rolleyes:

Are kings and emperors 'politicians' in the same sense as the last few centuries? Herod killed a bunch of innocent babies.

And, is it necessary for a political career to end in ignominious defeat, in order for the evaluation as 'a Hitler' to be historically validated? How many American politicians would be evaluated as 'Hitlers' if Native Americans were writing the history books?
No; and good question.
 
I just want to poke my head in here and say how glad I am to have cast my ballot for the Postflavian-endorsed Dr. Stein. It feels much better to have "thrown away my vote," rather than my conscience.

As for the comparisons to Herr Hitler, I don't mean to be so contrarian, but if we're looking for some kind of corollary, I tend towards someone less eurocentric, sensationalized, and archaic. To me, Mr. Trump's popularity is built more like a contemporary South American strongman
 
May I suggest here, that you and Jerry are taking all this topic a little too literally? Here in terms of functional typology, of which 'typology' in general we seem to get a little carried away with as an analytical tool.

Interwebz and media postmortem analysis are discovering that such as the Dems took the concerns of rural America too lightly, perhaps because we all like to live in our cultural bubbles. Here the irony of Trump, an ultimate urban 'insider' becoming the savior of Mid America is rather ironic. Rural, so-called Middle America is 'hurting' and such as the Republican politicians pandered to them, telling them that, yes you have not been getting your share of the government gravy. Like the refrain of: "the government is bad, but please don't take my Medicare away", these people have misplaced their anger, Trump having played the same game that the Republicans did prior. As the following excerpted article mentions, such people of all types tend to put their emotions before their mind, and Trump played this to a luxury course golf tee, following the principles employed by der Fuhrer during the course of his political career.

This excerpt, as well as the bulk of the interview discusses the problem of culture bubbles, of which the best solution is continued dialog. All of Middle Class America is 'hurting' because of the economic changes beginning in the late-70's, with a big assist from Uncle Ronnie. Uncle Ronnie's California has been complaining for a long, long time that we are getting screwed, not getting near our fair share of what we pay in federal taxes. Texas wants to secede but they get more than they pay in.
...
[Interviewer:] Maybe it would be good to end on this idea of listening. There was this recent interview with Arlie Hochschild where someone asked her how we could empathize with Trump supporters. This was ridiculed by some liberals on Twitter. They were like, “Why should we try to have this deep, nuanced understanding of people who are chanting JEW-S-A at Trump rallies?” It was this really violent reaction, and it got me thinking about your book.

Cramer: One of the very sad aspects of resentment is that it breeds more of itself. Now you have liberals saying, “There is no justification for these points of view, and why would I ever show respect for these points of view by spending time and listening to them?”

Thank God I was as naive as I was when I started. If I knew then what I know now about the level of resentment people have toward urban, professional elite women, would I walk into a gas station at 5:30 in the morning and say, “Hi! I’m Kathy from the University of Madison”?

I’d be scared to death after this presidential campaign! But thankfully I wasn’t aware of these views. So what happened to me is that, within three minutes, people knew I was a professor at UW-Madison, and they gave me an earful about the many ways in which that riled them up — and then we kept talking.

And then I would go back for a second visit, a third visit, a fourth, fifth and sixth. And we liked each other. Even at the end of my first visit, they would say, “You know, you’re the first professor from Madison I’ve ever met, and you’re actually kind of normal.” And we’d laugh. We got to know each other as human beings.

That’s partly about listening, and that’s partly about spending time with people from a different walk of life, from a different perspective. There’s nothing like it. You can’t achieve it through online communication. You can’t achieve it through having good intentions. It’s the act of being with other people that establishes the sense we actually are all in this together.

As Pollyannaish as that sounds, I really do believe it.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...t-actually-makes-sense/?tid=pm_business_pop_b
 
Every recent Republican president has been compared to Hitler.
And now we have a corporate, urban elite Democrat playing a Trojan Populist as our Hitler, our Julius, our Nero.

He has an 'illegal' for a wife, a Slav who is surely a light melanin (Melania) mole for the KGB. At least, since Gingrich supported him, we can be sure he is not an anti-colonialist Mao Mao like Obama.

Trump, like Hitler (and Obama) wants a big construction (the Wall) / infrastructure (autobahn) / spending agenda. This will have him confronting the Republicans, and it will be interesting to see Trump in action against the Tea Baggers especially, but the likes of Mitch McConnell.
 
He has an 'illegal' for a wife, a Slav who is surely a light melanin (Melania) mole for the KGB.

If we're trying to run a reputable publication here, shouldn't we be at least a little bit careful about making accusations of criminal or treasonous activity on the part of our Noble Leader's wife, without the slightest bit of evidence? Even the part about 'illegal' is highly speculative, and the statute of limitations has long run out.
 
If we're trying to run a reputable publication here, shouldn't we be at least a little bit careful about making accusations of criminal or treasonous activity on the part of our Noble Leader's wife, without the slightest bit of evidence? Even the part about 'illegal' is highly speculative, and the statute of limitations has long run out.
Jerry, does she have light melanin or not? This is proof positive. She came to this country to work with no permits. Bingo.

The Ruskies like her beaver pelt pics (which likely definitively show moles), and as well Putin likes Trump's leading candidate for Sec Def, Russia Television star, General Mickey Flynn. The Russians are now admitting that they guided Trump's campaign.

And below the Trump surrogates are throwing cold water on prosecuting Crooked Hillary. Christie even said: Move On!! Trump is thinking about Bridgegate Chris to head DHS or DoJ. Jamie Dimon for Sec Treas.

...
If the incoming Trump administration wants to tackle a Hillary Clinton prosecution, don’t expect either of these two candidates for AG to quarterback it. The most politically safe move would be to appoint a special counsel rather than route it through the Department of Justice anyway, which would allow Trump to keep his hands off any final decision. (Perhaps Barack Obama should have considered that after Loretta Lynch’s tête-a-tête with Bill Clinton as Comey was wrapping up his conclusions.)

A bigger question will be whether it’s worth it at all. The Clintons are finished in politics, especially Hillary, who booted a winnable election in the most spectacular fashion in recent memory. Maybe Thomas Dewey’s stunning 1948 loss comes close. Their foundation isn’t going to have anywhere near its former cachet, since it’s clear that the Clintons will have no influence to peddle. Hillary might write a third memoir, but she won’t get anywhere near the $14 million advance she got on her last book, which sold miserably for that level of investment and raised a lot of questions about the publisher’s motives. They’ll live high on the hog, but stained forever by their own actions.

The only real value in pursuing Hillary is pour encourager les autres — to set an example to others about peddling influence and treating classified intelligence in such a shockingly negligent manner. That’s precisely why the DoJ does prosecute those cases when involving people not named Clinton. As a recommitment to the rule of law, it would matter in this case — and at least an independent counsel investigation would help settle those questions.

http://hotair.com/archives/2016/11/...stie-throw-cold-water-on-hillary-prosecution/
 
Jerry, does she have light melanin or not? This is proof positive.

Are you making fun of our typological arguments against Vespasian and Titus? All that might be speculative too, but at least we have density and sequence. Besides, dead Roman emperors don't file libel lawsuits.

The Ruskies like her beaver pelt pics (which likely definitively show moles)

Why are we speculating about this, when we could easily verify? Not that we would ever post such pics on this family friendly website, but you could send me an email with these beaver pelt pics. I want to see for myself. Before we go arguing any more over whether having a mole means you're a mole, we need to get straight about the facts.

She came to this country to work with no permits. Bingo.

OK, there's new information about this one since the last time I looked. This Associated Press article says it's true, Melania was a model in the US for the first six weeks she was in the country, without getting a work permit.

https://apnews.com/37dc7aef0ce44077...wife-modeled-in-US-prior-to-getting-work-visa

The Russians are now admitting that they guided Trump's campaign.

You mean, they're boasting that Trump took their advice?
 
Are you making fun of our typological arguments against Vespasian and Titus? All that might be speculative too, but at least we have density and sequence. Besides, dead Roman emperors don't file libel lawsuits.
Certainly not. I only stated earlier that we get carried away with having to use it as an analytical proof for every comparison, when such comparisons are rarely meant to be perfect equations.

That said, and all sarcastic joking aside, the number of parallels between the two Lifetime Actors in question here have a massive number of parallels, as my postings have demonstrated.

My link above about the cultural concerns of Mid-America reveal what a sham is going on. The article reveals that they were really crying that they weren't getting their fair share from Uncle Sam. "Oh whoa is me, socialism is Satanic, but DO NOT take my Medicare away!!! These Christian Taliban fundamentalists just used their enormously Uuuuge gut feelings to vote for an individual who mocks them and their troglodyte religious beliefs. But he will launch a massively Uuuuge spending program that they will pay for, because corporate America will not be doing so.

If this isn't the End of the Age of the Fishy Jesus Christ I don't know what is. Trump took a DUMP on their Jesus and they don't even care.

And as to the point of reality bubbles that the article talked about, these 'farmers', the descendants of European serfs (aka slaves) were upset that only they know what Work is. Funny, because I can think of all the times when I used to dream about having a job outdoors instead of doing real work. And I know I wasn't the only one.

Why are we speculating about this, when we could easily verify? Not that we would ever post such pics on this family friendly website, but you could send me an email with these beaver pelt pics. I want to see for myself. Before we go arguing any more over whether having a mole means you're a mole, we need to get straight about the facts.
I fear that despite my investment in keeping my computer secure that the Ruskies likely will try to place a mole in my machine, a high tech venereal disease.

You mean, they're boasting that Trump took their advice?
Trump needs to register as an agent of a foreign government.

His first campaign adviser made tens of millions of dollars from the Russians, and had to leave when it became known. Melania is obviously a Slavic intel cuckhold into the Oval Office, and Trump wants to slip us a Mickey Flynn (Mickey Finn) into the head of the military. He is a big favorite of the Russians. That the Clintons and Bushco have likely done the Russians wrong is a separate issue.

These are far higher quality claims than those put forward by the likes of Eye of Newt Gingrich, the leaver of a dying wife cum moralizing marano (pig) converso Catholic.
 
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As the Hitler Youth chant "Build That Wall", protests and arrests mount across the country, a Million Women March on Washington D.C. during Trump's inauguration is being planned (in protest). Will the Brown Shirts show up to grab them by the genitals?

Many of the Brown Shirts are veterans, but Trump dodged the Vietnam War, so he could attend to his Jesuit college education.

While writing “the blunt-spoken Mr. Trump” “likes to stress his desire to strengthen the military and improve how veterans are treated,” The New York Times made no reference to Trump’s Vietnam avoidance.

Reuters included just a passing reference to how Trump “did not serve in the military.” And The Washington Post managed to fit in its dispatch a single sentence noting, “Trump himself avoided the draft through four student deferments and was later medically disqualified from service.”
[No doubt for an inflammation. - rs]

Trump graduated college in 1968 and managed to not serve in the Vietnam War as the conflict reached its deadly apex. For some reason this campaign season the press doesn’t much care about the topic and has largely walked away from the model of previous cycles when Baby Boomer candidates were repeatedly pressed to explain their ‘60s wartime years.

http://www.salon.com/2016/06/02/donald_trump_draft_dodger_partner/

So just who did the MSM rig the election for?

At least der Fuhrer, an Austrian alien (another cuckholding), fought in the German Army. Or so we're told.

Has Trump already built the Trump Hidden Resort? Maybe in Crime-a?
 
KKK group plans celebration.

As President-elect Donald Trump prepares to move into the White House, one of the largest KKK groups in the country is preparing a parade in his honor.

The Loyal White Knights of Pelham, N.C., — “perhaps the most active Klan group in the United States,” according to the Anti-Defamation League — says on its website that it is planning a “Victory Klavalkade Klan Parade” for Dec. 3 to celebrate Trump’s election win.
...
In August, the chairman of the American Nazi Party, Rocky Suhayda, declared on his radio show that Trump offers a “real opportunity” for furthering the white nationalist movement.

Former KKK Grand Wizard David Duke, who lost a Senate bid in Louisiana on Tuesday, has time and again showered the President-elect in praise, including a gleeful Twitter spree after the election results came in.

“This is one of the most exciting nights of my life -> make no mistake about it, our people have played a HUGE role in electing Trump!” the convicted felon and former KKK leader tweeted on the eve of the election.

Trump was harshly criticized earlier this year for initially refusing to denounce Duke’s support, telling an interviewer at the time, “I don’t know anything about what you’re even talking about with white supremacy or white supremacists.”

The President-elect’s campaign later did some damage control and called Duke’s endorsement “repulsive.”

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/pol...victory-parade-donald-trump-article-1.2868491
 
On the enemies list. Thank Dogod I am so much for our Illustrious New Leader.

Foreshadowing the possibility that the worst fears of Donald Trump’s critics have merit, Omarosa Manigault — who met Trump while competing on “The Apprentice” and has campaigned for him in this election — has discussed how the Republican victor has been keeping an enemies list.

“It’s so great our enemies are making themselves clear so that when we get in to the White House, we know where we stand,” Manigault told Independent Journal Review at Trump’s election night party on Wednesday.

http://www.salon.com/2016/11/09/oma...reat-our-enemies-are-making-themselves-clear/
 
Friendly Fascism?

On Morning Joe this morning, Michael Moore mentioned a book by Bertram Gross that predicted the rise of such as Trump as coming with something of a Smiley Face and/or TV show popularity. Well, we already had Reagan ... and Clinton, whose economies were something of creative accounting, really built on inflationary credit and monetary expansion, to mask the massive whoosh of jobs leaving America per Ross Perot's accurate analysis.
 
That said, and all sarcastic joking aside, the number of parallels between the two Lifetime Actors in question here have a massive number of parallels, as my postings have demonstrated.

OK, sorry. No laughing matter.

Friendly face or not, what are the characteristics that distinguish fascism from politics as usual in the United States? Or, what events would need to transpire before I would be convinced that something fundamental really has changed?

Manigault with her "enemies list" was certainly chilling. Under Fascism, enemies really start to disappear. First, Trump says he wants illegal aliens with criminal records deported. And he wants immigration tightened up. If that's as far as it goes, I wouldn't call it fascism by any means. But if he starts carrying out his earlier campaign threats, and goes after people who haven't done anything wrong aside from being here; or shuts down freedom of the press with impossible judgments or even prison sentences for journalists; or goes beyond just Hillary in seeking jail time for Democrats in general; well, that's fascism.

Among Trump's white nationalist supporters, I've seen a meme that this election was their last chance. That is, the demographic tide is going out, and White People's ability to dominate elections is going away. There's no way that this dynamic is going to be reversed, short of truly draconian measures. So if Trump's White People are going to stay in control, it's going to require an end to democratic formalisms. Hitler stood for election in 1933, but never again. If there's an end to even the pretense of democratic elections, that would look like fascism.

I don't understand what's going on with this concern about Russia, though. The issue with Hillary was clear enough: she seemed to need to prove that she had more testosterone than anyone in the room, and if that meant war with Russia, so much the better.

But Trump seems to have a more pragmatic businessman's attitude. I'm assuming he has some properties or investments in Russia. His advisor Manafort had some sort of deal going with Yanukovych, who was an elected leader of Ukraine, deposed by a US-led coup because he opposed joining the EU and leaned towards Russia instead. So, Yanukovych doesn't seem like such an unsavory character. Flynn sat down with Putin for dinner on one occasion, and he's been interviewed on RT. Webster Tarpley has been on RT, it doesn't make him a Russian agent.

If Trump is so cozy with Russia, why would the Russians even need to send Trump a spy for a girlfriend? Can't Trump speak directly to Putin?

Or are you saying that Melania is spying on Trump's friends, like maybe the Clintons? Do we imagine that either Trump or the Clintons would be playing with Melania in bed, and suddenly unable to restrain themselves from confiding in her with their deepest thoughts about Crimea and the Ukraine?

Since you have such a suspicious mind, I suppose you've also wondered about Ivanka, whose arrival from Czechoslovakia happened deep in the Cold War? But again, there would be nothing concrete to back up that suspicion. Except, maybe, that daughter Ivanka was just recently on a vacation junket with Putin's girlfriend. "Wendi Deng Murdoch—who happens to be the ex-wife of Fox News owner Rupert Murdoch"?? Well, there seems to be some 'splainin to do about this. Wiki says there's no credible evidence that Wendi has really hooked up with Putin.

http://news.groopspeak.com/ivanka-t...imir-putins-girlfriend-after-russia-dnc-hack/

I suppose one might ideally wish for a president with respectful and peaceful attitudes towards Russia, but not quite so cozy. But again, can we be sure this is a harbinger of a Hitler-Stalin style reversal to come? Or is this just all in the family? Again, we can only hope for the best.
 
Friendly face or not, what are the characteristics that distinguish fascism from politics as usual in the United States? Or, what events would need to transpire before I would be convinced that something fundamental really has changed?
This country has always been a sham construction, the romantic democracy rigged by the Hidden Hand. The Classical Greeks went to much greater lengths to try to provide real democracy to their, albeit limited, electorate. However, I think this election has taken matters fundamentally over the edge of the abyss, in terms of the sheer cravenness in both major candidates co-opting and mocking their bases. In the case of Clinton, I'm talking about the Sander's electorate, .. that likely could have made the difference.

Trump is fulfilling one promise already though. He is draining the swamp ... by hiring all the swamp rats into his administration.

well, that's fascism.
As we've discussed before, the term 'fascism' has many contextual meanings and uses. My special interpretation of it is that it means their is a superficial fascia, or mask. A mask that hides a deeper reality.

The Russia business is just more geopolitical Kabuki Theater in my opinion. Much of my ranting here should be read as Gingrichian bloviation, but there is much to be concerned about in any case. I believe Josef Stalin and Hitler (... and ...) were puppets, but this doesn't mean that nothing serious happened.

If Trump is so cozy with Russia, why would the Russians even need to send Trump a spy for a girlfriend? Can't Trump speak directly to Putin?
Are you serious?

Since you have such a suspicious mind, I suppose you've also wondered about Ivanka, whose arrival from Czechoslovakia happened deep in the Cold War? But again, there would be nothing concrete to back up that suspicion. Except, maybe, that daughter Ivanka was just recently on a vacation junket with Putin's girlfriend. "Wendi Deng Murdoch—who happens to be the ex-wife of Fox News owner Rupert Murdoch"?? Well, there seems to be some 'splainin to do about this. Wiki says there's no credible evidence that Wendi has really hooked up with Putin.
Now you're getting the picture. Besides Trump has poured a lot of concrete to build his buildings. Drum roll please.

Again, we can only hope for the best.
The best what?
 
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