JFK: What do we really know about that day in Dallas?

The following is about Dorothy Kilgallen, the once famous reporter and celebrity who was found dead ala Marilyn Monroe. Kilgallen, who was friendly with JFK, was highly involved with reporting on the Jack Ruby trial. She had come to realize that there were big problems with the Jack Ruby narrative, revealed to lawyer and author Mark Shaw much later via a 'rare' copy of the trial transcript.

Shaw has written a recent book, Denial of Justice, about the Kilgallen murder, and an earlier one about the same, The Reporter Who Knew Too Much.

It was clear that Ruby knew the 'assassination' would happen, and now Ruby had a big time mob lawyer, Melvin Belli, to 'defend' him. Kilgallen garners a boyfriend during the time of the trial, and it turns out he has mob pressure on him. He is the likely source of information that Kilgallen is preparing a book about to break the story wide open.

And so, the big(?) problem here is how to reconcile this with the body double claims of Miles Mathis and Tyrone McCloskey.

If a body double was used, the Oswald (the patsy IMHO) would still need to have been killed and Ruby kept silent. Ruby, was a man who would do most anything to make his bones within the organized crime world, and he revealed himself to have been very nervous, once he had crossed the Rubicon of shooting Oswald so brazenly. This left others, like Kilgallen, to be silenced for what they came to know. She saw that Ruby was the key to understanding what had happened, generally. But likely short of the body double aspect IMO.

Kilgallen was onto that Joseph Kennedy had screwed the mob, which provides a great motive for the assassination. But, the web of connections with the mob go very deep, into the Deep US military, the Deep CIA, the Deep FBI, the Vatican, and more.

Joseph Kennedy was almost as brazen in screwing the mob as Ruby was in killing Oswald. While RFK was likely the better direct target for the mob than JFK, taking JFK out meant that RFK was powerless .. from a governmental perspective. But in any case, the 'sacrifice' of JFK was a great ecumenical tool for elevating Catholic power, as we can clearly see today, the éminence grise behind the Great Pumpkin of Chaos.
JFK's connection with the film began in the summer of 1962, when syndicated columnist Fletcher Knebel sent the President an advance copy of a novel, Seven Days in May, that he'd co-authored with fellow journalist Charles W. Bailey, Jr. Knebel had been inspired to write the book after he did an interview with U.S. Air Force Gen. Curtis LeMay, in which the military officer went off the record to castigate JFK as cowardly in his handling of the Bay of Pigs crisis. From that thread, Knebel and Bailey spun a tale of a right-wing military coup. It was a storyline that apparently resonated with JFK. In 1961, his Secretary of Defense, Robert McNamara, even had been compelled to fire U.S Army Gen. Edwin Walker from his command in Europe after it was revealed that Walker had been indoctrinating troops with literature from the John Birch Society, which viewed both JFK and his predecessor Dwight D. Eisenhower as closet communist agents. The President was all too aware of a fringe that shared similar views, especially after Walker showed up in Mississippi to rally white bigots to oppose James Meredith's enrollmen at the University of Mississippi. As Attorney General Robert Kennedy told White House aide Ted Sorenson, Walker was "getting them all stirred up. If he has them march down there with guns, we could have a hell of a battle."

JFK quickly read the book and then shared it with his brother, as well as members of their inner circle. While JFK thought it was marred by "awful amateurish dialogue" and that the President was drawn too vaguely, the character of treasonous Gen. Scott made a strong impression upon him. JFK took it upon himself to ensure that a hit movie was made of the book, as a preemptive strike against his extremist enemies. As JFK aide Pierre Salinger later told journalist and author David Talbot, "Kennedy wanted Seven Days in May to be made as a warning to the generals. The President said, 'The first thing I'm going to tell my successor is, 'Don't trust the military men--even on military matters.'"
Lee Harvey Oswald got away with trying to shoot General Walker, did someone put him up to that? Was Oswald then set up as a "patsy" to "kill" JFK and "redeem" himself?
Lee Harvey Oswald got away with trying to shoot General Walker, did someone put him up to that? Was Oswald then set up as a "patsy" to "kill" JFK and "redeem" himself?

Oswald shooting at Walker is highly dubious. The bullet didn't match. No motive. No way for Oswald to get to Walker's home. Etc. Marina's statement was obviously coerced.
The combined researches of many reveal that Oswald had been recruited into the spook world from at least his days in the Louisiana Civil Air Patrol, with fellow cadet, legendary CIA drug and weapons smuggler, Barry Seal. Their CAP mentor was David Ferrie, another CIA pilot, which was revealed by Daniel Hopsicker in his book, Barry and the Boys. Hopsicker also had a picture in that book showing GHWBush sitting in a swanky Mexico City restaurant with a CIA assassination squad.

Another book revealed that Oswald had been 'sheepdipped' out of the Marines and into covert ops - before he made his excursion to the USSR. That book has a photo of Oswald's DOD card granted to those who are discharged early while allowing them benefits like to buy things at a military PX. And, when he got back to the USA he had handlers like (monarchist White Russian) George de Mohrenschildt and the FBI. So, everything that he did was under supervision, including his Fair Play for Cuba gambit.

It's interesting that Walker was a John Bircher and JFK (while having been an allied colleague of Senator Joseph McCarthy and having had a Nazi girlfriend during WWII) was supposedly a Commie sympathizer (according to Birchers and such), making them odd dual targets for one ideological assassin. Instead, I agree that Oswald was being framed for the Walker 'shooting', likely staged as part of the patsy framing.
Thank You Gentlemen, I had always wondered about that assassination attempt on General Walker, here is the Wikipedia version:

"Marina Oswald testified that her husband told her that he traveled by bus to General Walker's house and shot at Walker with his rifle.[87][88] She said that Oswald considered Walker to be the leader of a "fascist organization."[89] A note Oswald left for Marina on the night of the attempt, telling her what to do if he did not return, was not found until ten days after the Kennedy assassination.[90][91][92][93]
Before the Kennedy assassination, Dallas police had no suspects in the Walker shooting,[94] but Oswald's involvement was suspected within hours of his arrest following the assassination.[95] The Walker bullet was too damaged to run conclusive ballistics studies on it,[96] but neutron activation analysis later showed that it was "extremely likely" that it was made by the same manufacturer and for the same rifle make as the two bullets which later struck Kennedy.[n 7]"
I'm reading Lamar Waldron's LEGACY OF SECRECY and he offers a few insights into Edwin Walker. He was an extreme right-winger, having been booted from the military for passing out John Birch Society literature to his troops. He organized the opposition march that led to the attack on James Meredith. He accused Eisenhower of being a life-long communist. He ran in same circle as Guy Bannister and he was frequently visited by Jack Ruby. In 1976 he was arrested for making a homosexual advance to a plainclothes cop.

The bullet was a 30.06, not the caliber of Oswald's rifle. Walker said the bullet the Warren Commission had was not the one he recovered. Oswald did not have a car or driver's license, so he would have had to take a bus or taxi to Walker's home. No one saw him with his rifle. Eyewitnesses said there were two cars at the scene.
Oswald is said to have taken both a bus and a taxi, after walking 7 blocks to the bus stop, from work to briefly stop off at his boarding house, before heading off on foot to the Texas Theater. He then has no apparent problem shooting JD Tippit on the streets, while later fumbling to shoot another cop in the theater - when he knew they were coming for him, the theater lights even having been turned on.
The Texas Theatre was part of a chain financed by Howard Hughes, and the police would not have been called had Oswald paid for a ticket, instead of sneaking in. The movie he was watching was called "War is Hell", narrated by Audie Murphy, and starring Baynes Barron as a Korean War sergeant who kills for glory. Baynes Barron was born on May 29, 1917, the same day as Oswald's alleged victim, President John F. Kennedy.
There are those Kennedy Lincoln to JFK assassination parallels, and now we have the theater parallels: Pompey's Theater, Ford's Theater, and the Texas Theater.

There is also an interesting aspect of Hughes' and Joe Kennedy's ownership of RKO Studios.

and the police would not have been called had Oswald paid for a ticket, instead of sneaking in.
Supposedly there was a business owner down the street from the theater who followed Oswald to the theater, because Oswald had ducked into his store and acted weird as the cops drove by (after the shooting of Tippit).
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There are those Kennedy to JFK assassination parallels, and now we have the theater parallels: Pompey's Theater, Ford's Theater, and the Texas Theater.
John Wilkes Booth made up his mind to assassinate Abraham Lincoln after Robert E. Lee surrendered at Appomattox, and of course Lee Harvey Oswald was the alleged assassin of John F. Kennedy. Both of these "Lees" were Southerners, and both Presidents were "Yankees".
This forum is phenomenal thanks for keeping it up and thanks to Tyrone for his post here, I read his jfk blog a while back. The first point about Jackie being "cheek-to-jowl" with JFK is a powerful argument. Does anyone here think the Illuminati would leave killing Jackie up to chance? Doing this really only makes sense in the official story but not in the standard conspiracy theory where the only reason they are killing JFK during the parade (and not in his bedroom with a heart attack gun) is for plausible deniability. this is actually an understatement because we know everything they do is for public perception.

Knowing about aldous huxley, mk-ultra, and hollywood...does anyone here really think "the manchurian candidate" wasn't predictive programming, psychic driving, and the cover story for mk-ultra? Does anyone here really still think it is plausible that the film purchased by CD Jackson and Henry Luce was coincidentally filmed by a 33 dergree freemason in the freemasonic shrine of Dealy plaza, Dealy who owned the main media outlets in dallas covering the story.

Tyrone was the first I heard this from and yes this is correct.
There are 3 images of the headshot:
2-marie moorman
3-marie muchmore
....the later 2 sharing the same birithday?

Have you noticed how many of the same people involved in the JFk and RFK psyops were also invovled with the Manson Psyop? Like Ed Butler, Larry Schiller, Joseph Ball, Thomas Naguchi, George Shibley, frank sinatra etc.

Does anyone still think Mark Lane isn't entirely controlled opposition...whose books were written by a freemasonic committee?...much like the manchurian candidate and Bugliosi's Helter Skelter. Lanes film-producer deAntonio was a cultural marxism had just finished smearing McCarthy, much like Cohen before he made Mondo Hollywood (predictive programming for Manson) and Cohen also made the propaganda films of George deMorensdhildt (who was working for Buckley's oil company) and wife (who worked with Zapruder)...AND Jackie was close firends with deMorenshield who was of course Oswalds handler, who's brother was admitted intelligence...AND his elite Aunt supplied JACKIES DRESS! Jackie who, according to wikipedia, sat on "uncle" deMorhenschildts lap as a child.

The strongest evidence for the assassination I could find are the eye witness "the Newmans" which isn't very strong. Jerry stated early in the thread that there isn't any evidence that could disprove this theory but I think there is...how about: The corpse or Jackie's dress and DNA? And of course we already have something that violates the laws of physics in the magic bullet.

Among the many great points Tyrone and Mathis make... The JFK speech is always being taken out of context...again and again. why would anyone (especially a truther) assume he wrote it at all? He didn't even write his own book (based on his public reaction)... and anyhow what president actually writes their own speeches?

I made this video from a good reading Mathis' paper here:


Thanks for reading, I will be working my way thru many of these killer threads in the future :)
Hi Scott, sorry but your post appears to have fallen through the cracks of our crazy times. I just now noticed it when I went to post the following:

A new book discussing that Jack Ruby was given an MKULTRA shrink, at least after the killing of Oswald. Apparently so that Ruby would act and sound mental, leading us away from a wider conspiracy.

The video does not mention it, so we don't know whether the book does or not, but Sirhan Sirhan was associated with an MKULTRA shrink as well.

I got a little lazy, here's the complete 3 hour Rogan interview below with Tom O'Neill about his book, Chaos: Charles Manson, the CIA, and the Secret History of the Sixties. So it's much more than about the Kennedys.

Tom O’Neill is an award-winning investigative journalist and entertainment reporter whose work has appeared in national publications such as Us, Premiere, New York, The Village Voice and Details. His book, Chaos: Charles Manson, the CIA, and the Secret History of the Sixties (https://amzn.to/2RGhdQM) was published by Little, Brown in the summer of 2019.

I wonder if he'll do a sequel called: Chaos, Donald Trump, his Deep State, and the Secret History of the Epstein Teens.
So what is the common thread that runs through the network of Marilyn Monroe associates?


The following docu claims that Marilyn was surveilled leading to fears that she would stated that the Kennedy boys had told here that UFOs and such as the Roswell incident were real. The day after a CIA report discussing this dated she is killed by the Giancanas, under CIA contract, using the deniability cover that they had a grudge against the Kennedys.

What if she was killed, or fake killed, because they were afraid she was gonna tell the public that UFOs and Roswell are a government scam, part of the coming staged apocalypse? What if Marilyn was just playing a role ala the one movie where she ended up with the similar fate? And as we've surmised before, they all ended up happily ever after at the Hidden Resort? Maybe even Mar-a-Lago?

As a supporting cast we are treated to a serial montage of Reagan, Clinton, and Obama with their respective UFO statements, and a finish with the listing of others with untimely endings.
Charles Watkins raised a question about Judyth Vary Baker. We've never discussed her before on the forum as far as I can find, but I did read her book "Me & Lee" when it first came out in 2011. Here's the email I sent to Rick at the time:

Apparently this has been part of the JFK assassination research scene for awhile, but I first became aware of it after seeing an article on LewRockwell.com last weekend. A sidetrack from our Indo-European / SB studies, but I couldn't pass it up.​
The story is that Judyth Vary Baker claims that she was Lee Harvey Oswald's girlfriend from May thru November 1963, while they were working together in a secret biological warfare lab in New Orleans. After the JFK assassination, Judyth was afraid of being murdered like Lee and so many other witnesses, she stayed silent until 1999, when she emerged to tell her story. She first talked to "60 Minutes", who decided not to air her story. Then she succeeded in appearing on an episode of "The Men who Killed Kennedy", that was briefly shown on the History Channel in 2003. Since then the has been quite controversial -- apparently many JFK researchers have rejected her story. One of her top supporters is Jim Fetzer, which is also a little disturbing.​
During all this controversy, she has been promising to publish a book -- which has just recently come out via Trineday Books and Kris Millegan, our local Eugene-area publisher. It appears that Kris picked it up as sort of a companion piece to another book he published in 2007, "Dr. Mary's Monkey" by Edward T. Haslam, which is about Haslam's research on the cancer virus project.​
Judyth Vary Baker's book is called "Me and Lee." I'm loving this book, partly because it's a great star-crossed love story to rival Romeo and Juliet, and partly because of her tale of how she stumbled into her brief career as a biological weapons researcher. I want to believe it because it's so rich, how could you make up stuff like this. Although she admits in the book that her own son doesn't believe it, and begged her to publish it as historical fiction.​
She says she was a whiz kid in high school in Florida and was taken under the wing of various increasingly-prestigious local scientists, and began studying the use of viruses & radiation to induce cancer in mice. During her senior year, she hitchhiked her way to a medical conference and crashed it by using her high school press card, and wound up sharing her lab notebooks with the great Dr. Alton Ochsner. Ochsner subsequently visited Judyth's lab at the high school, bringing along with him the Nobel Prize winner Dr. Harold Urey, and they told her she was doing some of the most advanced work in the country -- and then they shut down her lab for fear that her super-potent viruses would escape and cause an epidemic. The next summer she continued her research at Roswell Park Cancer Institute.​
However, when Vary started into college, things quickly went awry. Rather than attending a top scientific university, she decided to attend a small Catholic college, St. Francis. Then, because of her religious faith and her desire to be of service in cancer research, she formulated plans to become a nun. Her father, horrified about this choice, pulled her out of school and essentially put her under house arrest to prevent such a dreadful fate. He gave her a copy of Bertrand Russell's "Why I am not a Christian" and she abandoned her Catholicism, but that didn't help her feel any less resentful about her dad.​
Clandestinely calling on her network of scientific connections, she escaped from her father's house by dead of night and got herself re-enrolled in college at University of Florida, back on the fast track. But this time, she wasn't buying into any Catholic ideas of morality, and promptly got herself knocked up by coed Robert Baker. She miscarried, but the entire situation was sufficiently stigmatizing, demoralizing and time-consuming, that she found herself broke, and called once again on Dr. Ochsner to bail her out.​
This time, Dr. Ochsner sent Judyth to New Orleans, to work on a top-secret pet project of his. Ochsner was active as a political conservative and was personally acquainted with South American political figures such as Pinochet and Somoza, who came to his hospital as patients. So of course Ochsner was virulently anti-Castro, and (so the story goes) he had devised a scheme to kill Castro by infecting him with a cancer virus. The project was being supervised by a Dr. Mary Campbell, and was being staffed by David Ferrie and assisted by Lee Harvey Oswald.​
Judyth arrived in New Orleans in April 1963, a few weeks before her assignment was ostensibly supposed to begin. Her backers strangely didn't give her any advance on her salary, but they did set her up with a room at the YWCA, where her roommates helped her to get a job at the Royal Castle, a hamburger joint that was also known as a New Orleans Mafia hangout. At that point, apparently Oswald was sent in advance to meet her.​
Meanwhile, Judyth was planning to secretly elope with Robert Baker, but both their families were militantly opposed to the marriage, so Judyth and Robert were reduced to communicating by means of encrypted messages in the personals section of the newspaper. Oswald encountered Judyth at the post office, where she reading one of these encrypted messages. Then she dropped an envelope. Oswald picked it up and handed it to her. Judyth had been taking classes in Russian so as to be able to read scientific papers, and she was in the habit of speaking to potential suitors in Russian as an ice-breaker. Funny girl. She says "Thanks Comrade" to Oswald in Russian, and he replies "It's not good to speak Russian in New Orleans". But they continue speaking in Russian long enough to discover their mutual love of Dostoevsky and Pushkin. After that, Oswald shows he has not mastered the arts of fast seduction, as it takes him until July before they become lovers. (Meanwhile Robert Baker has been inattentive, and Judyth and Lee start to refer to him as the "Rat". In Judyth's world, you know what happens to Rats.)​
Of course Oswald was convinced that Judyth was deeply embedded in the intelligence community, between the encrypted messages to Baker, the job at the White Castle, and the Russian education. Judyth protests in the book that this was all a coincidence and that she was sent to New Orleans as an innocent dupe. Of course I'm sure you'll believe her about that!! Anyhow, Oswald introduces Judyth to all his spooky friends, and the rest is history.​
And then a couple of email questions from Rick, and my replies:

On Mar 12, 2011, at 9:40 PM, Rick Stanley wrote:​
David Ferrie? Why would he be involved in all this? To fly the nefarious bugs around from place to place?
Both JVB and Haslam are pretty cautious about speculating for the reasons behind these events, leaving the reader to form their own conclusions. Ferrie is portrayed as a complex, brilliant yet tortured personality, with a Jesuit education and pretensions to join the priesthood, and not just because of the availability of young choir boys. In addition to his career as a pilot, Ferrie also had a long-standing interest in medical science: while a pilot for Eastern Airlines, he used his spare time to take courses in biochemistry from a medical correspondence school in Italy.​
Ferrie got fired from his job at Eastern Airlines after an incident in which he got drunk and went joyriding at low altitude over New Orleans, while simultaneously molesting a young Civil Air Patrol cadet in mid-air. So by 1963 he needed an alternative career.​
The effort to develop the anti-Castro carcinogenic virus is portrayed as a very clandestine, low-budget operation. On the one hand, it involved a collaboration with Dr. Ochsner and Dr. Sherman, who were among the most prestigious cancer specialists in the country; and it involved a very expensive linear particle accelerator that was located at the US Public Health Services Hospital in New Orleans. The existence of this accelerator was also top secret: Haslam assembles a variety of circumstantial evidence hinting at its nature and capabilities, while JVB was only dimly aware that there was an accelerator at Public Health Services. Haslam conjectures that the accelerator existed primarily for other research, perhaps directed at developing a vaccine for the SV40 virus, while the anti-Castro project operated at an even higher level of secrecy. Basically, the design of the project was that mice were injected with cancer virus, and then the mice were killed and the biggest tumors were extracted and sent to the accelerator where they were bombarded to produce mutations. These new viruses were then injected into more mice. Rinse and repeat. Ferrie's job was to house, kill & process the mice at his apartment, while Dr. Sherman took the "product" (tumor extracts) to the accelerator for bombardment. (In my last email I mentioned a Dr. Mary Campbell. Not Campbell, Sherman!! What was i thinking?? Sherman was brutally murdered in 1964, and Haslam argues that half of her body must have been incinerated in the accelerator before she was finished off with a knife wound to her heart, on the very day that the Warren Commission staff arrived in New Orleans.)​
While the accelerator was obviously government funded, the anti-Castro aspect may have been funded as a private enterprise, or else through some off-book channel similar to Iran-Contra. It's not clear how Ferrie was paid, but it seems likely that he found himself in over his head scientifically as the project progressed, and JVB was brought in to handle the technical aspects of handling and processing the mice. JVB and LHO drew their paychecks from "cover jobs" at Reily Coffee Company while they worked on the cancer virus project.​
Just what we need in this story, more Byzantine confusion. I'm not sure what to make of this. I guess it's possible, I think LHO was alone in NO, that he left Marina in Dallas, right? But I thought he spent most of his time there playing the Castro agitprop game.
Judyth had a pretty strong resemblance to Marina, and claims that she often wore Marina's clothes and went out in public with LHO speaking Russian, and everybody assumed she was Marina. Marina did come with LHO to New Orleans. One problem with the story is that Marina told the Warren Commission that LHO was always faithful and came home promptly from work, while Judyth claimed that Oswald was frequently sleeping with her in hotels towards the end.​
According to Judyth, Oswald spent most of his time doing agitprop, and only occasionally helped out with the mice. Oswald's most important role was towards the end, when his job was to assist in smuggling the toxic virus so it could be administered to Castro. Oswald was supposed to take the virus into Mexico for a rendez-vous with agents there.​
Judyth was an admirer of JFK and was very alarmed when she heard Ferrie hurling death threats in JFK's direction. She says she confronted Ferrie who reassured her that he really had nothing against JFK, and that he was only saying these things to cement his position with his anti-Castro Cuban friends. Judyth was told that Ferrie and Sherman were working hard on the anti-Castro virus in hopes that if they could get rid of Castro, perhaps the forces gathering against JFK could be mollified.​
As time went on, Oswald became embroiled with the JFK assassination plotters because of his anti-Cuban connections, and was increasingly convinced that they were setting him up to be the patsy.​
JVB says that LHO told her that CIA agent David Atlee Phillips was organizing the JFK operation.​