JFK: What do we really know about that day in Dallas?

Richard Stanley

Well-Known Member
Any theory to the contrary would involve a body double who was killed in place of the President, while the man himself was spirited away to the "Hidden Resort".

This is impossible to falsify, but on the other hand I've never seen the slightest scrap of evidence, at least not in this case, and precious little evidence in any other case (Hitler, Saddam, etc.) Any theory that's impossible to falsify, can hardly be considered 'scientific'.

And if the person is never seen nor heard from again, what difference does it make? If JFK was so well hidden, he might as well have been dead, as far as the world is concerned.
Tyrone's book announcement caused me to revisit this thread, after my temporary hiatus to the Hidden Resort.

It seems to me that the problem with using the falsification concept breaks down here in the situation of trying to reproduce a phenomenon where the phenomenon subject consists of a singular and otherwise unreproducible sample. Be default you can't perform more tests if you can't find the bodies, not quite the same for your Hamiltonian ensembles. We don't even know if anybody's body was dumped in the Indian Ocean purporting to be ObL's. In his case, there were the prior photos and videos of obvious body doubles appearing in his stead, because the rumor was that he was already dead from kidney disease, and had been seen treated in an American run hospital before 9/11. Who knows about that, or whether he got a transplant and is currently in the Hidden Resort?

As for Hitler, the controversy about him surviving, immediately at the end of the war, was huge and lasted for years, only being tamped down by the Soviet's claims to having some bone scraps. In this case, there were all the Rat Lines run by the Vatican and the CIA, to such places as real 'hidden resorts' in Argentina and Chile. Ferrell claims that there is reason to believe Hitler and Eva died on a remote Indonesian island running a medical clinic, where odd Europeans still seem to make a pilgrimage to an unmarked grave.

Why would someone agree to become the next Saddam or Osama, considering their nexus to Western intelligence networks, who helped get them started, if all they had to look forward to was a sad end, at best?

What difference does it make? I understand your point about that he might as well be dead, even if he wasn't. But then after that what do you mean? Jesus was never seen again, if ever, so what difference did he make? What about the Hidden Mahdis of the Shiite sects? Or are you saying that in these case that since they are expected to make a return that this qualifies as making a difference to their followers.

It seems to me that Mathis's photo analysis is pretty good argumentation that just such fakery occurred, and the Kennedy assassinations marked a sea change in WASP attitudes towards Catholicism. And this is reflected in the latter's current prominence in a USA government once predominantly and xenophobically WASP in nature. That combined with the intermarriage policies of Vatican II, in the same time frame, has completely decimated mainline Protestant denominational congregations, who today have to rent out their churches to other groups because they are left with mostly only old people, if they are still there themselves. What hundreds of years of religious sectarian wars couldn't accomplish, these simple acts did in a few decades. Of course, the wars got sheeple interested in hopping on ships to the uncertain New World, now no longer a necessity.
 

Tyrone McCloskey

Active Member
Forgive me for delaying a thanks for reading but, alas, my sainted mother is on the precipice and I'm way off my normal routines- I do appreciate any attention to my creative endevour and when things stabilize I will engage-
 

Richard Stanley

Well-Known Member
Hi Tyrone,

Sorry about your mother, I know what that's like.

Just finished reading your masterpiece, and I have to say it is impressive. I agree that you have an improvement on Mathis's take for the reason it is done, and like everything else like this it may get refined yet some more.

I think that Bartram's thesis needs to be integrated into our schema and have been trying to get Joe and Jerry on board. Bartram provides a (Chrestian) starting point with the Flavians, and it is Jerry's and mine position that there is a continuum of phases and refinements in all this. That said, with only certain exceptions, IMHO, you seem to be rather closely aligned with Jerry and myself, e.g. your takes on the Masons, the Jesu, Napoleon, Hitler, (all tools of the same interests) etc..

FWIW, I think DeMolay's execution was faked as well, and a considerable laundry list of even more. But since this general modality is being discussed, perhaps Julius Caesar's 'theatric' prelude to Jesus's fictive fate may be the prominent exemplar, paving the way for the imperium and the Prince of Peace, Augustus. Brilliant about Kennedy, the messiah, serving in his mission for 3 years, that hadn't occurred to me. I wonder if there are other parallels?

I was also struck by your comparison of the Kennedy saga as a pulp fiction, and I think you will find it similarly interesting in my coming 'soap opera' analysis of the Abraham narrative, in this case another historical fiction I assert.

BTW, is 'psy-opera' of your coinage? Very funny, whatever the case.

Regards
 

Tyrone McCloskey

Active Member
Thanks for reading, Richard- Psyopera is a term I found lying around on the internet but I can’t recall where- In some of the net circles I hang out in, there is an expanding lexicon that refers to different aspects of media fakery, as it’s styled; Psyopera now being a favorite example-

The Chrestian hypothesis does seem to jibe with the mainline at this site inasmuch as it appears to be the same psy-op run by the Flavians- I may not be exact in my understanding but Bartram seems to have it that the Flavians adopted and expanded the Chrestus conspiracy to gain the throne but that it started with Augustus approving Antonia Minor’s scheme to infiltrate Qumran, which she did through Saul-

My main question, and I suppose it would be Bartram’s as well, is what actual “text” was being used by the Flaviani to push this psy-op? The oldest gospel texts available are the Codex Sinaticus and Vaticanus, apparently, both thought to be of 4th CE century origin- There are fragments here and there thought to be part of earlier versions of the gospels, but beyond Josephus, what text (replacement text?) was being used to steer potential converts to the Messianic movement away from the sacred scriptures and xenophobic laws of the Jewish orthodoxy? I should probably give another hard look at Caesar’s Messiah- It’s been a while-

Probably the most difficult aspect of Bartram’s take to sell to readers are the “ghosts” of Christianity’s non-existent past- Origin, Augustine, Tertullian, Eusebius, etc. To Bartram they are part of the false backstory of a religion that did not exist - That’s the tallest order in all of his work, in my opinion- As well, along with the church fathers and doctors, all the saints, martyred and otherwise, get tossed- And the persecutions said to have taken place also get scrubbed- It’s like the fellows over at September Clues Forum presenting considerable evidence that there were no victims on 911- Some folks may eventually buy in that the official story is hokum, that maybe there weren’t even planes (missiles, maybe?) But denying the emotional impact that thousands of innocent victims generate is hard for people to take- Just like taking away the impact of JFK’s death- People make an emotional purchase, a very large one, and to tell them they got scammed is tough- Then the messenger is in real danger-
 

Tyrone McCloskey

Active Member
It occurred to me as I read my post that this sort of rear guard action repeated itself in the 16th century- The Venetians, according to Tarpley and Gatto, ie, created the schism of Protestantism through their tool, Luther, to divide the Hessian mercenaries that were bedeviling Venice during the war of the League of Cambrai- This adjustment of doctrine: faith plus good works vs. faith alone (simplistically speaking) smacks very much of the Chrestian watering down of Jewish law to get a messianic monkey off the backs of the Imperial cult-
 

Richard Stanley

Well-Known Member
Hi Tyrone,

The strength of Caesar's Messiah in terms of dating is the intertwined nature of the gospels with Josephus's Jewish War. That is, how does one explain how Josephus's work explain numerous oddities in the gospels and vice-versa? Separate from CM are the numerous parallels between the narratives of Josephus and Saul/Paul. With the latter, if Antonia Minor was running such an operation, and I see no reason why not, then the operation most likely succeeded her as well.

I see these gospels, amongst all the others floating around (such as the gnostic ones), as likely being presented under the radar, so to speak. This by trusted Roman operatives (evangelists) working discretely out of such as the Divii Julia cult cities and presenting them in typical mystery cult fashion. Each were targeted to a different audience, yet such as the respective resurrection event timings demonstrate that they were written systematically.

It seems to me that Bartram's problem is that even with the gospels first being Chrest based, or not, that he really has no delimiter on the early side. In other words, how does he know that what we have are 'the earliest' actual texts used? What better time to "graft onto the Root of Jesse" (from Romans 11 onto Isaiah 11) than with the Flavian destruction of the Temple? Interestingly then, if this was all orchestrated by the Carolingians, then they still had the texts and their invented Church Fathers happily proclaiming the 70AD event as the perfect fulfillment of Jesus's 'generation' prophecy, thus making Titus the Second Coming, the son of God (Vespasian).

Separately, there seems to be a wide consensus that the Book of Revelation was written in the time of Domitian. Oddly, the island of Patmos, in addition to being a 'Hidden Resort' for political exiles (wink, wink) was a naval port for the Roman fleet protecting the sea approaches to such cities as Ephesus that just so happened to be cities with Divii Julia caesariums and were also the same cities that Paul wrote letters to. In this case, 'John of Patmos' is telling the new sheep (maybe Chrestians here) not to get caught up in the emperor cult. He's doing so from a position of being exiled by the Romans, whom are expecting all 'citizens' (except Jews) to comply with the demands of the emperor cult.

If such as my scenario is correct, then such as the Book of R has to be fit into the picture. To me it seems much more like a propaganda effort in the time that it places itself than a retrojection from centuries distant. The business of telling the trusted Christians (or Chrestians) to flee to Pella fits in the same category, and thus the Roman agents provocateur are being favored with a trip to yet another Hidden Resort to ride out the apocalypse of Jerusalem.

Justin Martyr, and his odd writings from Roman jail, have the same feel that would have to be trashed, for no seeming good reason to me.

I think the two positions can be reconciled.
 
I wrote a book on this matter, and in the research (A lifelong quest followed by intensive research.) I saw that it was not as horrific as many people think. It is just exactly what the Rolling Stones sung about and the stupidity of Americans (Lived there most of my adult life, dealing with the top PR people.). Americans actually believe their own propaganda and those inside the inner sanctum you want to think are Luciferians are the best thinkers and humanists you will find. A VP of Xavier University, a CIA operative who threatened to blow the whistle and got what he wanted from Melvin Laird (A General's pension and an ad agency.), a front man for the Cabots and Lodges (Real powerful cabal called the Beacon Hill Mob who include the Rockyfukkers who hired Heinz K and his bro) are just a few who told me so much it has taken a lifetime to grok.

That belief in such slogans as "Defender of democracy and freedom" protector of the poor and downtrodden - "Give me your huddled masses" and more is not even close to just how bad it is. So I should not be surprised that after JFK was assassinated (IN a long line of assassinations at home and abroad alongside many failed attempts) that the sheeple of this Banana Republic (not a democracy) live up to what Jefferson wrote to Lafayette (Two Illuminati for you) about rogues and their ability to "withdraw from people the right of removing them". The people should have rebelled, they loved JFK and Bobby too!
 

Richard Stanley

Well-Known Member
Tyrone's thesis (like Miles Mathis') is that the Kennedy assassinations were fake (see his link to his book at top), and that the Kennedy clan were not what people think. Like Julius Caesar being a cynical 'populist' I guess. And I think that Julius' assassination was faked as well, the precursor to the Jesus of Nazareth (grafting of the Root of Jesse) fakery.
 

Richard Stanley

Well-Known Member
That is what it is. And I read enough to know it is not worth reading.
The big problem here is the demonstration of what happens when one becomes too invested in the pompous building of elaborate castles of cards stemming from having accepted the premises of too many romantic, propagandic psy-operas (thx Tyrone).

Really Robert, all this coming from someone that doesn't even know the real difference between Shiites and Sunnis? And one that thinks that JPII was a really great guy? What about fascist Father (now Saint) Escriva? The Church is canonizing outright fascists even today? There is really only one reason that this can be so, but you seem to be making excuses for such, like several others that have come on here and blow smoke.

When the Dictator has his Last Supper, cracking jokes with his guests and brutish executioner about his immanent demise, and it transpires in Pompey's Theatre the next day? On the Ides of March, he was led to his demise, like a sacred lamb to the slaughter, down the Sacred Way (of Rome) to the theatre. On the way back home, he was placed on a board with his arms splayed out as if on a cross.

At his funeral, instead of the traditional military breastplate, his wax effigy was placed upon the TROPAEUM as if a body upon cross. The coming Pontifex Maximus, Marc Antony, at the appropriate time revealed the wound(s) in his wax side, so that the crowd would become emotional. It worked to perfection and the Jews in attendance were the loudest in wailing at the loss of their second messiah (Cyrus being the first).

On this third day funeral, all watched as Julius ascended, a god, to Heaven to be with Romulus, ... and patiently wait to be joined there by Jesus of Nazareth, George Washington, and ... JFK.

The funeral rites of Julius were piously replayed, with only a few exceptions, such as the funeral pyre, during the funeral of JPII. Instead of the wax figure of Julius (JC) upon the tropaeum, the wax figure of Jesus (JC) was draped on a cross.

Tropaeum, BTW, is where we get the word 'trope' from.
 

lorenhough

Well-Known Member
I'll just set this down here like a used appliance on the sidewalk- (Unlike all the other JFK books, mine makes no claim to being a legal brief) http://liesallkinds.blogspot.com/
Well done ! Tyrone, now that it looks like Lennon faked his death. Sharon Tate etc.
Makes since to me when jfks sister who was 'the' debutant of the debutants in England; when her father was the youngest head banker in NY; remakes wall st, and Hollywood and was the ambassador for England from the usa, that she and her 1st born brother would fake there death to be a part of a 'inner circle' for breeding for the elite etc. Safe on a island; were no one knows who they are where they live; were they control the world by making suggestions. They the true Elite don't work like the pope the queen of England etc. they are there shields like the Rothschild's etc. [the red shields!] for the secret Elite families that want to rule the world for ever! and have learned from history never to reveal who they are, where they live and how they rule! with in circles with in circles all in secret!

thanks so much for your amazing in sites! LH
 
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Richard Stanley

Well-Known Member
Hi Loren, welcome back.

Your comments reminded me of something I was going to get around to adding to something that Tyrone said earlier.

I don't normally let go of any of my good books, but in this case I did, so unfortunately I can't remember the name of it or the author. The book was about Marilyn Monroe's assassination and focused on trying to get to the bottom of it. One means was by going through a rigorous examination of the main witness accounts - and as they were amended over time. By doing so, the author was able to weed out any particular witness's internal and/or external contradictions and then weigh those results against their respective biases and other factors. The conclusion was that the Kennedys did it.

Now in light of Miles Mathis's and Tyrone's efforts perhaps we might want to examine whether or not Marilyn really ended up at the Hidden Resort (at Martha's Vineyard in this case) as well. One of the amazing digressions(?) of the book was examining an earlier episode in Jack Kennedy's life, while his father was the owner of RKO Studios (before selling it to Howard Hughes). It discussed that Marilyn was a typical unknown aspiring model and starlet at the time, and thus introduced to the studio owner's son, by the usual Hollywood practices. From the timing of everything, Marilyn had to make a temporary hiatus (wink, wink) for some reason. The conclusion was that she had a love child by Jack, and thus another reason for the ongoing 'fatal' attraction, e.g. "Happy Birthday to You, Mr. President".

So then, did Marilyn really end up with the end ascribed to her, or was it all another fabrication? Hence the curious actions of the coroner and such.

The guy at Mindcontrolblackassassins, somewhere, has some very interesting material on Marilyn (and Anna Nicole Smith)being a part of Project Monarch, remember that she was the first to appear in Playboy magazine. The link provided is related to that aspect, focusing on Bill Cosby's relationship to all that. Sorry, I can't figure out how to find older posts there, maybe you can.
 

Richard Stanley

Well-Known Member
Hmmm, took me all of 2 minutes to locate the MM book, at least I'm pretty sure this is the right one. The following is a fair review:

This book begins with a spellbinding account of the considerable evidence that independent investigators have amassed over the decades following Marilyn's death. Parts two to five are devoted to the star's life, and the final chapter reconstructs the terrible events of her last day.

Wolfe presents abundant evidence that the Kennedy brothers, John and Robert, then U.S. president and attorney general, had a hand in murdering Marilyn Monroe to protect their own reputations. The Los Angeles police department responded to the Kennedys' power and influence by covering up the murder and refusing to conduct anything resembling a proper investigation.

One example of this is that none of the many witnesses was ever compelled to testify under oath. Independent investigator William Woodfield, for example, quotes key witness Dr. Ralph Greenson saying, "Look, I cannot explain myself without revealing things I don't want to reveal. You can't draw a line and say, 'I'll tell you this but I won't tell you that.' I can't talk about it because I can't tell you the whole story....Listen, talk to Bobby Kennedy."

It is an outrage that the LAPD allowed Greenson, Kennedy and others to remain silent. Thank you, Donald Wolfe, for researching Marilyn's murder and its coverup and giving us the truth.

I would like to comment on questions raised by another reviewer, Thomas Hughes. He asked, "Why would Murray and Greenson, who spent so much time spying on Marilyn, do that for the sake of the Communist Party?" I was baffled by this too. The communist party was powerless by 1962. My own guess is that Murray and Greenson, like Pat Newcomb, were keeping an eye on Marilyn to protect the Kennedys.

Incidentally, the FBI also classified Marilyn herself as a communist. This was probably just an all-purpose label that J. Edgar Hoover applied to everyone he didn't like.

Regarding Greenson's injection at the death scene, Wolfe wrote that ambulance driver James Hall said it was a shot of adrenaline to the heart intended to revive the fallen star. What killed Marilyn was a previous injection containing enough chloral hydrate and pentobarbital to kill from nine to twenty people.

Elsewhere Wolfe had described that Marilyn has been whisked to and from Van Nuys Airport to take flights to and from D.C. for trysts, by using an ambulance ride. Was this the same ambulance driver above, and if so, can we trust what was said about the scene of the final act?

Not sure if this book, by the same author, is the same text or a different revision, but the following review mentions the love child business:

This book was simply superb, and it contained a lot of hidden information unknown to me. For instance, the lovechild between
Marilyn and Kennedy and the scandalous secrets about the ... Kennedys that led to her death. The author has a very introspective view of the complete chaos her life was in during the end, and of treacherous friends who had woven a web of deceit around her plying her with drugs to keep her off balance and confused. Luring her to Cal-Neva to be sexually abused and silenced by threats if she persisted in pursuing the Kennedys and vowing to hold a tell-all news conferance that would have been the end of Camelot. Oh! the shame of it all, heres a girl who had it all, beauty, fame and fortune but no inner peace for the tortured Norma Jean. For as it says "What does it mean to gain the whole world but lose your soul"!
I highly recommend this book for anyone who holds a good thought for Marilyn, and is searching for the truth asto how she really
died, laying to rest the lies and coverup of the suicide theory, kept in place for over forty years. Dynamite!! 3 thumbs up!!!

 

lorenhough

Well-Known Member
Here's the mighty Miles Mathis with a different take (as always) on MM's alleged death- http://mileswmathis.com/monroe.pdf
BTW- I grew up with a guy whose grandfather was Joe DiMaggio's first cousin-We all knew that Joe had two "nieces" in Florida that he treated like daughters- Now it makes sense-
. More information on subject, but I still think JFK was not shot but if was faked as Tyrone suggests, this video just has some info that adds to the mix.
Also remember the big boys backed bough sides in world war 1 and 2 backed fascism and communism. japan and Italy. They are the puppet masters. See Dutch London's Vatican Rome and wall st part in the work death camps.
 
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lorenhough

Well-Known Member
The bay of "pigs" (Jesus Caesar) was to root out and kill all the anti Castro Cubans for Castro it didn't fail, the were exercising the swine who were infected,, the big boys backed all sides to get what they wanted. JFK did as he was told and pretended to be a good guy like President Eisenhower. You don't become president without being fully vetted Kennedy was probably told the story of what would happen to him before he was elected, the killing the king to create the trauma-based fear to manipulate the people of America in the world, The Beatles were said to be coming the day Kennedy was killed and play their music 77 days to the day after he was killed. The Beatles were the next blow on the psychic of America and there music was to carry us in to the hippie age the New Age the dumbing down LSD destroying the antiwar movement.
 
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Richard Stanley

Well-Known Member
Great video Loren. I agree with your take on JFK's role and unfortunately the producers of this otherwise great work didn't take into account the wider details of the Kennedy mythos, beside the dirt on Daddy Joseph. Who BTW, was also a supporter of the Nazis while he was ambassador to England. I think if the work had taken more of the Kennedy dirt into account they might be inclined to view Mathis's and and Tyrone's accounts with favor, especially when the video made much of body doubles.

My only other quibble with the video is that it seems to miss (except for a brief mention in one of the Nuremburg movie clips) a huge, behind the scenes, player that has parallel interests, and over a much longer time span. Somewhat related though, it was great to see the mention that the Catholic / Protestant schism was a hoax though.
 
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