Is at all about serpents?

Jerry Russell

Administrator
Staff member
The other thing that has been kind of troubling me is that there seems to be evidence of power in evil. The Satanist symbology everywhere from the flag to films to music and sports. I'm relatively happy with the inner peace and tranquility thing and the individual being a god of sorts. I'm guessing that's all there is. But there's usually opposites with anything. That doesn't seem to be the case with an outside source regarding good and bad.
Joking aside, I think Matt has a serious point here. On the one hand, Satan has long been recognized as a symbol of human individuality (especially in resistance to God's earthly avatars). But that gets confused and entrained with the concept of Satan as pure evil, and as the opposite of pure Good as symbolized by Jesus. I think this is a common motif in modern propaganda: many secular folks like to play around with Luciferian imagery as a symbol of rebellion against traditional religion, or because they understand that enlightenment (illumination) is basically a good thing; this becomes red meat for fundamentalist Christians. And, some elite no doubt see Satanism as license to do whatever they want, including ritual child abuse or whatever.

Derek Murphy has a very good blog about heroic aspects of Satan; sadly, he seems to have given it up recently, owing to an understandable desire to make some money.

http://www.holyblasphemy.net
 

Matt Zeffiro

New Member
Joking aside, I think Matt has a serious point here. On the one hand, Satan has long been recognized as a symbol of human individuality (especially in resistance to God's earthly avatars). But that gets confused and entrained with the concept of Satan as pure evil, and as the opposite of pure Good as symbolized by Jesus. I think this is a common motif in modern propaganda: many secular folks like to play around with Luciferian imagery as a symbol of rebellion against traditional religion, or because they understand that enlightenment (illumination) is basically a good thing; this becomes red meat for fundamentalist Christians. And, some elite no doubt see Satanism as license to do whatever they want, including ritual child abuse or whatever.
It's not so funny that the state has been taking regular swipes at Christianity since it's only meaning is in the minds of tunnel vision followers. Maybe the classic double bind. I see any 5013C as sleeping with the enemy. Building stuff up to tare it down like America and it's infrastructure, Detroit etc...

I remember thinking in Sunday School(in so many words)'This seems awful tidy, white, clean and neat."

Does anyone else have the issue or situation here where you have learned and internalized so much knowledge regarding social engineering and mind control that you want to "spread the gospel" and others who haven't been on that path just think you're a whacked out conspiracy theorist?
 

Richard Stanley

Well-Known Member
And, some elite no doubt see Satanism as license to do whatever they want, including ritual child abuse or whatever.
Such behavior is not limited to the elites though Jerry.

Building stuff up to tare it down like America and it's infrastructure, Detroit etc...

I remember thinking in Sunday School(in so many words)'This seems awful tidy, white, clean and neat."

Does anyone else have the issue or situation here where you have learned and internalized so much knowledge regarding social engineering and mind control that you want to "spread the gospel" and others who haven't been on that path just think you're a whacked out conspiracy theorist?
I remember sitting dumbfounded in Sunday School thinking that Rocky and Bullwinkle made more sense of the world.

Yes, Matt, what you are asking is indeed a common phenomenon for those who are 'seekers'. This is because the vast majority have either blindly gone along without any deep reflection, or have made the conscious decision to 'go along' with the program considering that there is little chance of having the contrary benefit them - more likely to cause themselves many problems, including the loss of friends. If one studies such matters as some of the metaphorical interpretations of 'seeking the Holy Grail, or Vision Quests (ala some American Indians) as referring to truth seeking, it is said that this process is an individual and lonely one, probably for this very reason.

I consider the "build it up to tear it down" phenomenon to be an expected part of what I am now calling the Maximalist view of Western Civilization's development, including the frequent assertions of global ambitions in the Old and New Testaments. In other words - what we are watching happen is programmatic and not merely the organic poisonous fruits of aggregate human tendencies. This is a big problem for most to comprehend and accept given what we were taught to believe about our place in the American pie.
 

Marcilla Smith

Active Member
Were you jesting?
About... ?

what we are watching happen is programmatic and not merely the organic poisonous fruits of aggregate human tendencies
Richard, if you believe people lack such complicity in the state of their own society, I'm surprised you are not the one advocating for humans-as-property.

As to the matter of "truth-seeking," yes, all of that! This is why 1) I think high intelligence should be considered a disability, and 2) I have resigned myself to religion
 

Richard Stanley

Well-Known Member
Richard, if you believe people lack such complicity in the state of their own society, I'm surprised you are not the one advocating for humans-as-property.
I have already expressed elsewhere my dour opinion that humanity has yet a long time to enlighten itself sufficiently to operate in a responsible manner. However, I consider this to be a considerable non-sequitur to reaching a conclusion for advocating slavery.

I can't speak for yourself, but I do indeed consider myself having been the product of generations of top down mass mind control. As such, I DO NOT consider this to be a matter of complicity of people that undergo cradle to grave indoctrination. Quite the contrary. That it is difficult to get people to buy into a different paradigm, one which has factuality, i.e. the Truth that could set you free (as Christ Titus sarcastically stated), that teaches and Actually encourages them to take Real Responsibility, and to use the Brain that they were given (by whatever means it arrived on their heads, does not mean that one should sit back and let the Lord (George) do it for them while disengaged in the soma of Faith.
 

Matt Zeffiro

New Member
Such behavior is not limited to the elites though Jerry.


I remember sitting dumbfounded in Sunday School thinking that Rocky and Bullwinkle made more sense of the world.

Yes, Matt, what you are asking is indeed a common phenomenon for those who are 'seekers'. This is because the vast majority have either blindly gone along without any deep reflection, or have made the conscious decision to 'go along' with the program considering that there is little chance of having the contrary benefit them - more likely to cause themselves many problems, including the loss of friends. If one studies such matters as some of the metaphorical interpretations of 'seeking the Holy Grail, or Vision Quests (ala some American Indians) as referring to truth seeking, it is said that this process is an individual and lonely one, probably for this very reason.

I consider the "build it up to tear it down" phenomenon to be an expected part of what I am now calling the Maximalist view of Western Civilization's development, including the frequent assertions of global ambitions in the Old and New Testaments. In other words - what we are watching happen is programmatic and not merely the organic poisonous fruits of aggregate human tendencies. This is a big problem for most to comprehend and accept given what we were taught to believe about our place in the American pie.
It's so rare, perhaps never for me to find a such a like minded familial statement from someone. I was thinking of what would be a good example to prove our side(not crazy about that expression)to those who would reject the hard evidence about the Grateful Dead for example.(http://www.gnosticmedia.com/manufacturing-the-deadhead-a-product-of-social-engineering-by-joe-atwill-and-jan-irvin/)
I thought of children and how they looked in successive decades. Recently the Bratz franchise did as much as any company to sexualize elementary school girls. It breaks my heart to see what has been done to first graders compared to just a short time ago.
So if you presented a decade by decade photograph comparison from the 1960's to 19 August 2016 of pre-adolescent girls to deniers;their reaction would probably go something like this-It's evolution man.bratz-dolls-337x239.png
 

Marcilla Smith

Active Member
I consider this to be a considerable non-sequitur to reaching a conclusion for advocating slavery.
Sorry, what I mean is that traditionally, the only animals allowed to move about freely within civilized society are those considered to have agency such as housecats and the domesticated chimpig. Other animals such as dogs, hogs, pot-bellied pigs, ("savage") chimpigs, and other pigs are usually required to be under the direct control of their master when in public, to avoid being picked up by some agency of animal control.

I can't speak for yourself, but I do indeed consider myself having been the product of generations of top down mass mind control. As such, I DO NOT consider this to be a matter of complicity of people that undergo cradle to grave indoctrination.
Suit yourself, but then you've resigned those people to the control of some elite of which they are not a part. How within that framework of thinking can they be redeemed without the intention of the elite as "prime mover?"

It isn't that I can't see where you're coming from, it's that it seems to me that you've adopted the very paradigm that is the "elite agenda": that they are "g-ds on earth" and naught can be done without their agency

So if you presented a decade by decade photograph comparison from the 1960's to 19 August 2016 of pre-adolescent girls to deniers;their reaction would probably go something like this-It's evolution man.
When I was a child, one could not find platform heels and underpants that say "sexy" on them in child sizes. Now they are at Target.

Having said as much, let me point out that from a corporate perspective they are "just meeting consumer demand." From a child's perspective, maybe these things seem child-ish, even if to those of us of an older generation they seem not so child-like


At any rate, I don't play this type of game on forums anymore. Period.
Sorry to have offended :confused:
 

Matt Zeffiro

New Member



When I was a child, one could not find platform heels and underpants that say "sexy" on them in child sizes. Now they are at Target.

Having said as much, let me point out that from a corporate perspective they are "just meeting consumer demand." From a child's perspective, maybe these things seem child-ish, even if to those of us of an older generation they seem not so child-like


S:confused:orry to have offended
I wasn't offended. My point about children and soulless predatory marketing was either completely lost on you or made into some sort of ad hominem which is doa. Let me see if I can be more clear. Children need a childhood that consists of riding bikes and playing out doors using their imagination;games that make learning exciting and many other aspects that nourish their independence, individualism and autonomy. I didn't say anything about what childlike is or isn't since I understand that. It appears to me that the vast majority of that age group today go practically from diapers to texting and being preoccupied with their looks and whether or not they are sexy. The oligarchs are quite happy to bring society down as low as they possibly can morally, spiritually and otherwise. What I don't understand about your attitude is that you seem to refer to proven facts, primary citations and so forth as some sort of opinion. Therefore it is not others place as I see it to try to lead the proverbial horse to water over and over.
 

Jerry Russell

Administrator
Staff member
1) I think high intelligence should be considered a disability, and 2) I have resigned myself to religion
I've been puzzling about this. I suppose a certain level of self-doubt and second-guessing is to be expected. But if this is really a concern, Marcilla, why are you here planning a movie that's going to expose the fraudulent underpinnings of traditional Christianity? Wouldn't it make more sense to just quietly go back to your congregation, get back in line, and get another job doing cleaning work somewhere?

Don't get me wrong, I am glad to have you on our team, but this is not the easy road to fame & fortune in the movie business.

The oligarchs are quite happy to bring society down as low as they possibly can morally, spiritually and otherwise.
The sexy underwear and platform heels for pre-teens would not be selling if the kids didn't want them, or if the parents wouldn't buy them, or if people weren't eagerly watching and enjoying the sexy pre-teen kid shows on TV.

Perhaps it's just as likely that 'society' has a natural tendency to deteriorate into chaos, and that it takes a continual effort on the part of elite institutions such as the Church, media, and schools, to keep people in line with Augustinian family values and work ethic? To the extent that there is a monolithic elite, they seem to have switched their intent, but the earlier period of "higher" culture was arguably just as much driven by elite machinations, as the current period of deteriorating conditions.

One can always look at the bright side. It's more fun to live in a period when saucy Pastafarian wenches are available for spiritual advice.
 

Richard Stanley

Well-Known Member
Suit yourself, but then you've resigned those people to the control of some elite of which they are not a part. How within that framework of thinking can they be redeemed without the intention of the elite as "prime mover?"
Become a Black Sheep ... like me. Think for yourself. Why did your God give you a brain if you prefer not to use it? Or a body if you prefer to mortify it?

It is you who are resigning those people to the control of some elite of which they are not a part. All, except for your movie that is, unless you are Agent Smith and tailor it for that exact result.

It isn't that I can't see where you're coming from, it's that it seems to me that you've adopted the very paradigm that is the "elite agenda": that they are "g-ds on earth" and naught can be done without their agency
Yes, I absolutely have done this. I have done this for your sake and all of CHIMPIGANITIES sake!!!! Yet three times you will deny the cock's crowing. o_O

If this is what such entitled people believe about themselves, as to their entitled right to steer societal development sub rosa then it behooves the person trying to gain insight as to how the process works to think along the same lines. In other words the Black Sheep must think like a Shepherd. This has been a continuing problem in discussing matters with other awakening sheep who constantly want to revert a conversation into the context of white sheep thinking and allow this to be their lens of perception.

However, yet again you have inverted logic, because of these perceptional lens problems. You want to remain in Church and abide by Faith and I am saying, as a former engineer, one must first understand the problem at hand before you can properly solve it.

The elites pamper their charges with metaphorical royal jelly from cradle till after college, and thus they believe they are entitled to lord over others. And the converse is true about what the white sheep (and the sheepdogs) are trained to accept as their gruel (and dogbones).

Sorry, what I mean is that traditionally, the only animals allowed to move about freely within civilized society are those considered to have agency such as housecats and the domesticated chimpig. Other animals such as dogs, hogs, pot-bellied pigs, ("savage") chimpigs, and other pigs are usually required to be under the direct control of their master when in public, to avoid being picked up by some agency of animal control.
I once went out on a date with a woman, whom I had thought seemed quite 'normal' and intelligent from our chance meeting. Upon arrival at her house I was horrified to find that she frightfully domineered her cat into remaining in one small spot in the living room. I soon found out that this was all part of her strange subcult of Hinduism, which taught her that adherents should dominate all other life. This against which we all know that Hindus are generally aghast at even killing insects, and let cows and monkeys roam freely. The rest of the experience was like that, and as bad luck would have it she wanted to see a movie that was playing 40 miles away.

It's more fun to live in a period when saucy Pastafarian wenches are available for spiritual advice.
Also spaghetti pasta evokes serpents.
 

Matt Zeffiro

New Member
The sexy underwear and platform heels for pre-teens would not be selling if the kids didn't want them, or if the parents wouldn't buy them, or if people weren't eagerly watching and enjoying the sexy pre-teen kid shows on TV.

Perhaps it's just as likely that 'society' has a natural tendency to deteriorate into chaos, and that it takes a continual effort on the part of elite institutions such as the Church, media, and schools, to keep people in line with Augustinian family values and work ethic? To the extent that there is a monolithic elite, they seem to have switched their intent, but the earlier period of "higher" culture was arguably just as much driven by elite machinations, as the current period of deteriorating conditions.
One can always look at the bright side. It's more fun to live in a period when saucy Pastafarian wenches are available for spiritual advice.
That's good. I actually don't need to have the explanation of a market for young flesh being exploited given to me again :D. I'm not suggesting that anything can be done about it but I maintain that it was a direct attack on the family and morality as well as the taking away of a child's innocence. As Joe often quotes from the early 1900's,"It's sex o'clock in America."
..
 

Richard Stanley

Well-Known Member
Children need a childhood that consists of riding bikes and playing out doors using their imagination;games that make learning exciting and many other aspects that nourish their independence, individualism and autonomy. I didn't say anything about what childlike is or isn't since I understand that. It appears to me that the vast majority of that age group today go practically from diapers to texting and being preoccupied with their looks and whether or not they are sexy. The oligarchs are quite happy to bring society down as low as they possibly can morally, spiritually and otherwise.
Generally speaking, I agree that children should be protected from matters that they aren't ready for, as to being so-called 'age appropriate'. When it comes to 'sexual' mores (and some other matters) this seems to be a tricky matter, where the cultural pendulum swings back and forth, and I would say usually too far in either direction, especially in America. And even without elite agenda(s) that there are natural cycles as we've started discussing today on the cultural degradation thread.

Society has attempted black and white legal rules like the Age of Consent for sex and other matters, even having concurrent different ages for different matters (like alcohol and smoking). And then there was the age of the Roman derived Censor, of which a tiny vestige yet remains for what is left of broadcast media.

There was a time when it was fairly common for families to all sleep (and live) in essentially one room, and thus the kids frequently had a clearer idea of what mom and dad were up to - and how their younger siblings came to exist. But, we have sanitized all of this to a relatively high degree thanks to such as Victorianism. Yet none of this was enough to turn off the testosterone and estrogen sex drives of teenagers and young adults, as we were born with. This drive stemming from the survival of the genes' need to persist regardless of human or 'Godly' moral codes. And to make matters even more difficult human males and females are tuned to be sexually responsive almost 24/7 unlike most other animals that have windows of time to do their 'urgent' rutting.

When the pendulum was at the 'conservative' end, including most all the contributing factors, I thus never met my birth mother, except for a few seconds at best. Que sera sera.

As such, I see the motivation to alter 'culture' from the top down as not always being a desire to degrade, but to do so as their perceived 'season' (the specific circumstances) defines, as would be the case for literal shepherds or farmers tending to their flocks and crops. A shepherd cares tenderly for his charges, fattening them before fleecing them or taking them to market for someones meal. A farmer 'fucks' (sorry Jerry but this is where the term came from) seeds into the ground and nurtures them to germinate and become healthy plants, immediately before committing mass herbicide.

As such, I see the shepherds of humans view their human sheep charges in exactly the same vein, where there is a season for what they do. While some around the globe do always admire America and aspire to what they usually correctly view as positive traits, there is the opposite side of the coin of those who detest aspects of America. And it is to this latter group that I suspect that is being pandered to somewhat in the globalist's desire to slowly level the field. It is easier to bring America down a piece at a time than to raise everyone else to America's former heights. With all our other problems (including $19 trillion of national government debt) how much longer can we go on policing the world, that frequently resents us? And besides these same globalists get to continue to profit disproportionately from all the distress and disparities in the meantime.

There is a notion as well, that the so-called apex culture, intensely protective of its children, is (was) too protective and thus triggered an organic behavioral backlash causing the pendulum to swing, and too far. I think there is a lot to be said for this, and unfortunately such as the American religious Taliban (fundamentalists) are too immature, hypocritical, and politically motivated to allow the pendulum to find a happy balance. This goes for sex, drugs, and most all else, leaving us in a collective and paranoid schizophrenia.
 
Last edited:

Matt Zeffiro

New Member
With all our other problems (including $19 trillion of national government debt) how much longer can we go on policing the world, that frequently resents us? And besides these same globalists get to continue to profit disproportionately from all the distress and disparities in the meantime. richard-stanley

Policing the world is a maximalist purpose. I see your point in all of that. I finally stopped with television(few exceptions)in 2009. I went through an Alex Jones phase till around 2012. Still finding my sea legs in all of this. I guess we all attribute different power and control to the top down system and parts of it irritate me a lot more than others.
I feel the debt is a trojan horse for fear and more theft as needed. I'll check out that other thread.
 

Richard Stanley

Well-Known Member
I feel the debt is a trojan horse for fear and more theft as needed.
Well it may be some of that, but IMHO the debt (as is) and such as the private Fed are simply convenient monetary mechanisms to enable bypassing proper governmental restraints to allow spending in areas serve special interests, while also funding the bread and circuses that allow the oligarchs to engage in their Free Trade destruction of domestic manufacturing jobs (as opposed to Fair Trade). This is a tweak from the old Roman days when the oligarchs paid for the bread and circuses out of pocket.

To keep help this thread on topic, I would like to say that "sea legs" for some unknown reason remind me of eels, and eels remind me of serpents. :rolleyes:

BTW, Matt, you can reply to segments of text by simply highlighting the segment and then clicking on the reply button attached to your selection.
 

Marcilla Smith

Active Member
I wasn't offended.
I'm glad for that. Peace be with you, Mr. Zeffiro

I've been puzzling about this. I suppose a certain level of self-doubt and second-guessing is to be expected. But if this is really a concern, Marcilla, why are you here planning a movie that's going to expose the fraudulent underpinnings of traditional Christianity?
Your concern flatters me. Does it make a difference if I consider them not to be not so much fraudulent, as mythological?

Wouldn't it make more sense to just quietly go back to your congregation, get back in line, and get another job doing cleaning work somewhere?
I think I stay quite in line. However, when space is granted to make that line freeform, I like to explore all parts of the canvas with my line. I'll be arguing having a theological discussion with my pastor tomorrow on the biblical support for the Gnostic heresies

Don't get me wrong, I am glad to have you on our team, but this is not the easy road to fame & fortune in the movie business.
But you must remember, as a religious fanatic, I seek not to satisfy myself with the pleasures of this world, but rather to satisfy my Heavenly Father with my devotion to His calling. "For this I was born, and for this I came into the world, to testify to the truth." -- John 18:37b (NRSV)

To answer in another way, would it have made more sense for Vince McMahon to have continued to promote his wrestling shows as "shoots" (competitive athletic competitions without predetermined outcomes)? Conventional wisdom would have said, "yes," yet his church has grown larger than ever by choosing otherwise. "Honesty is the best policy," as the saying goes

Become a Black Sheep ... like me. Think for yourself. Why did your God give you a brain if you prefer not to use it?
I assume you are speaking to the rhetorical "you," as I do not recall making any such claims.

Although I cannot speak for the rhetorical "you's" (known here in the South as the "rhetorical y'all"), I will say that in matters of revolutionary struggle, there is always a minority which makes up the thesis of the "old guard" and the antithesis of the "vanguard," while the majority just want a return to their "normal routine"

Or a body if you prefer to mortify it?
In what would the spirit reside without the material being? "Mortification of the flesh" is a metaphor, in any event. The flesh is not truly killed, and the satisfaction of the spirit is not separate from the physical processes of the material body

It is you who are resigning those people to the control of some elite of which they are not a part.
Yes, according to your viewpoint (your theory and priorities), then yes, I am materially doing so. This, however, was not my point. Intellectually-speaking - or, that is to say in terms of how I theorize - I assume that all human actors have agency (albeit not absolute). Therefore, when they mindlessly follow what one or the other of the presidential candidates says, I still label this their "choice," coming from a Wesleyan-Arminian background, as I do.

You, being the loyal Calvinist that you are, uphold the doctrine of predestination by (the ")G-d(s"). However, where you recognize the possibility of a sheep to escape their programming, so too do I recognize that human free will is not absolute as conditioned by programming. Therefore I don't think our positions are so much unreconciled as they are beginning from different points of departure

All, except for your movie that is, unless you are Agent Smith and tailor it for that exact result.
Well just try to imagine what it's like to be an agent named "Smith," who has had several people tell her over the years that she looks like Keanu Reeves, and then to find out that Agent Smith was actually "the One!" It's enough to make one tremble in hesitation when bringing a screenplay idea exposing what may be "the ultimate Matrix" to the creators of that film.

Sometimes it feels like I'm on mushrooms ALL the time

Yes, I absolutely have done this. I have done this for your sake and all of CHIMPIGANITIES sake!!!! Yet three times you will deny the cock's crowing. o_O

If this is what such entitled people believe about themselves, as to their entitled right to steer societal development sub rosa then it behooves the person trying to gain insight as to how the process works to think along the same lines. In other words the Black Sheep must think like a Shepherd. This has been a continuing problem in discussing matters with other awakening sheep who constantly want to revert a conversation into the context of white sheep thinking and allow this to be their lens of perception.
What you have managed to do - and I truly thank you for this - is help me to understand what my earthly father must mean when he says that I "overthink things."

IDK if I can explain this in a way which will make any sense, but it seems to me that you are assuming a level of awareness and intelligence which I see no reason to believe exists in the population of "elites." If it were true that they are so aware of what they are doing, acting consciously in such synchronicity with one another, and with such intelligence and power, have you ever considered what made them think it would be such a great idea to have the Egyptian Empire fall to the Greeks, only to be replaced by the Romans, who would then collapse, leaving only their Semitically-seasoned church to contend with the rising nation-states, until a reformation movement split the faith, which would then be challenged by Islam and a growing skepticism in everything supernatural?

However, yet again you have inverted logic, because of these perceptional lens problems. You want to remain in Church and abide by Faith and I am saying, as a former engineer, one must first understand the problem at hand before you can properly solve it.
Now, now... let's not label your past as an engineer as a "problem," although I can imagine how that influences you to see the world through the lens of "design issues."

"When your only tool is a plumb bob..."

The elites pamper their charges with metaphorical royal jelly from cradle till after college, and thus they believe they are entitled to lord over others. And the converse is true about what the white sheep (and the sheepdogs) are trained to accept as their gruel (and dogbones).
Agreed. And condolences on your date

There is a notion as well, that the so-called apex culture, intensely protective of its children, is (was) too protective and thus triggered an organic behavioral backlash causing the pendulum to swing, and too far. I think there is a lot to be said for this, and unfortunately such as the American religious Taliban (fundamentalists) are too immature, hypocritical, and politically motivated to allow the pendulum to find a happy balance. This goes for sex, drugs, and most all else, leaving us in a collective and paranoid schizophrenia.
Yes, agreed. Is there a better medicine than "community" to soothe the schizophrenia?
 

Richard Stanley

Well-Known Member
You, being the loyal Calvinist that you are, uphold the doctrine of predestination by (the ")G-d(s"). However, where you recognize the possibility of a sheep to escape their programming, so too do I recognize that human free will is not absolute as conditioned by programming. Therefore I don't think our positions are so much unreconciled as they are beginning from different points of departure
Ordinarily I would take your saying that I was a Calvinist as tongue-in-cheek humor, but given your tendency to make linkages that I would not dream of, and apparently vice-versa, then I'm not sure how to take this. That is, other than you have already made my message the same as as what I believe should be the case -- a slight variation on "killing the messenger". Or perhaps an extension of those that assume that most any such explanation is a sure sign of Predictive Programming. Therefore, one should just keep their conclusions to themselves.

IDK if I can explain this in a way which will make any sense, but it seems to me that you are assuming a level of awareness and intelligence which I see no reason to believe exists in the population of "elites." If it were true that they are so aware of what they are doing, acting consciously in such synchronicity with one another, and with such intelligence and power, have you ever considered what made them think it would be such a great idea to have the Egyptian Empire fall to the Greeks, only to be replaced by the Romans, who would then collapse, leaving only their Semitically-seasoned church to contend with the rising nation-states, until a reformation movement split the faith, which would then be challenged by Islam and a growing skepticism in everything supernatural?
Yes, I have considered exactly those things.
 

Jerry Russell

Administrator
Staff member
Does it make a difference if I consider them not to be not so much fraudulent, as mythological?
This makes me wonder if you share the same understanding as we do. We see Josephus and the Flavian court as having cynically invented the fictional Jesus character and then passed him off as a real, living Deity to the mass of poorly educated and credulous humanity, in order to win their compliance to the unjust Roman imperialist feudal regime. It's much more like a criminal fraud, than the innocent creativity of someone writing a bedtime story about cows jumping over the moon. (Although Joe might have some typological analysis about the latter not being so innocent, either.)

as a religious fanatic, I seek not to satisfy myself with the pleasures of this world, but rather to satisfy my Heavenly Father with my devotion to His calling.
Have you accepted Richard's anti-Gospel (bad news) that there is no Heavenly Father, but only an earthly self-aggrandizing Man Behind the Curtain calling himself the Lord while he fleeces the flock? When you said above "High intelligence should be considered a disability", we accept that as an ironic reality because we like to think it's our high intelligence that enables us to recognize who the Wizard is.

But if one is also intelligent enough to deny this reality, and get a job working for the Wiz, then suddenly intelligence in the Lord's service becomes very valuable. He needs good engineers to build the magic show.
 

Richard Stanley

Well-Known Member
Have you accepted Richard's anti-Gospel (bad news) that there is no Heavenly Father, but only an earthly self-aggrandizing Man Behind the Curtain calling himself the Lord while he fleeces the flock?
Just to be clear here, I can only claim that the Abrahamic god is clearly bogus (and it is similarly apparent that any other 'god' is also a human confabulation). If not, we are all in some deep poo - needing to constantly brown nose this cartoonishly frightful and petulant entity who clearly doesn't obey his lessons and laws that he lovingly imposes on us. His laws are not for himself as was the case for Augustus and all the others.

One might be tempted to see Marcilla as someone in the process of breaking an deep addiction, and/or one somewhere in the middle of peeling back the onion layers of reality. Thus she is caught constantly with her feet in two rooms trying to sere two masters at once. However, she seems to me to take too much delight in appealing to convention and 'authority' when it is clear that the focus at Postflaviana is on getting underneath the propaganda of history -- that which is rendered by the victors. As such, if 'Agent Smith' is not a good appellation then perhaps the 'Sorcerer's Apprentice'?
 

Marcilla Smith

Active Member
Ordinarily I would take your saying that I was a Calvinist as tongue-in-cheek humor, but given your tendency to make linkages that I would not dream of, and apparently vice-versa, then I'm not sure how to take this.
I am saying that you have (intellectually) pre-destined the sheep of your model to a fate prescribed by the shepherds(-as-surrogates-for-G-d)

Yes, I have considered exactly those things.
Richard... does it seem reasonable to you that such an unwieldy and complex explanation would be necessary?

This makes me wonder if you share the same understanding as we do. We see Josephus and the Flavian court as having cynically invented the fictional Jesus character and then passed him off as a real, living Deity to the mass of poorly educated and credulous humanity, in order to win their compliance to the unjust Roman imperialist feudal regime. It's much more like a criminal fraud, than the innocent creativity of someone writing a bedtime story about cows jumping over the moon. (Although Joe might have some typological analysis about the latter not being so innocent, either.)
I do not see the Flavian court as being of one mind. Titus lived his life on the battlefield, so probably saw life through that lens - a chess match to be calculated and won. Somebody (Josephus, most likely) approached him with the idea of craeting the Gospels, he weighed the costs versus the benefits, and allocated resources accordingly.

Josephus comes from a very different background. If we believe that he penned or contributed to "The Greatest Story Ever Told" and that under the pressures of impending death, he nonetheless solved The Josephus Problem in order to survive the mass suicide at Jotapata, then I think it's reasonable to believe he was to some extent the child prodigy he reports himself to be, and that he spent his youth studying with the different groups and gurus he claims.

In Josephus, I confess I project something of myself. As I want to (re-)create the Gospel story that it might both destroy and renew the Faith, so it is easy for me to see how Josephus would have seized the opportunity to do the same. A "normal" person would have returned from Rome to a revolting Judea and refuse to take part and/or died defending his homeland. Josephus seems to have maintained a consistent logic throughout, and made out quite well for having done so. To the extent that he represents Hellenistic Judaism, his life story is amazing! I would not be surprised if he was introverted and maybe even autistic

As for that part about Joe's typology of the cows jumping over the moon, LOL! Now, about Jack and Jill going up that hill... :: raised eyebrow ::

Have you accepted Richard's anti-Gospel (bad news) that there is no Heavenly Father, but only an earthly self-aggrandizing Man Behind the Curtain calling himself the Lord while he fleeces the flock?
Well, I don't subscribe to the sort of anthropomorphic micromanager I believed in as a child, and I am aware of charlatanism with the likes of Peter Popoff. However, as a higher consciousness arises from the interaction of the individual cells in our brains, so do I also believe that our brains interact with one another, and through these interactions create ever higher orders of consciousness. And if it can happen in our brains, then this information can be passed through other tissues, other animals, and even non-living things, even if a rock has far less consciousness to share than (most) humans.

I pray daily, and I believe it has consequences

When you said above "High intelligence should be considered a disability", we accept that as an ironic reality because we like to think it's our high intelligence that enables us to recognize who the Wizard is.

But if one is also intelligent enough to deny this reality, and get a job working for the Wiz, then suddenly intelligence in the Lord's service becomes very valuable. He needs good engineers to build the magic show.
I draw a distinction between an "impairment" (which intelligence is not) and a "disability." High functioning intellect is dis-abled in a society where chimpigs are rewarded for not holding strong opinion, valuing conformity, and believing in a water-walking Jewish peasant-zombie-messiah-deity-etc. Where is the place for high intelligence there?

Yes, I "should" have gone into a STEM field and lost myself in my research. As I did not, I accept that maybe my calling is to carve out a space in the church for the engineer, and bring the Gospel into the robotics lab

One might be tempted to see Marcilla as someone in the process of breaking an deep addiction, and/or one somewhere in the middle of peeling back the onion layers of reality. Thus she is caught constantly with her feet in two rooms trying to sere two masters at once. However, she seems to me to take too much delight in appealing to convention and 'authority' when it is clear that the focus at Postflaviana is on getting underneath the propaganda of history -- that which is rendered by the victors. As such, if 'Agent Smith' is not a good appellation then perhaps the 'Sorcerer's Apprentice'?
I tend to think I broke free of the addiction years ago, and have now returned only as a recreational user. Of course, ask any 12-stepper what they think of that and :: eye roll ::

Developmental psychology says that our trust issues are first formed during our nursing years. As I was bottle-fed, I have been denied the experience of that early attachment, but also spared the trauma of weaning. Clearly I am one of the lucky few to know cold objectivity, while most go about shaking their fists at parental surrogates, or else latching themselves onto a surrogate teat :: compassionate sigh ::
 
Last edited:
Top