Inspiration is not cancelled out by inerrancy. A Case for Christianity as a universal Religion

Does the Flavian theory invalidate the Jungian archetype of the Jesus Concept?

  • Yes

    Votes: 1 33.3%
  • No

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Never thought of it that way before

    Votes: 2 66.7%

  • Total voters
    3

Iconn2222

New Member
This is a proposed thesis and attempt to restore what postmodernism has seemingly negated as predicted in The Decline of the West by Oswald Spengler. It is an attempt to diminish Nominalist tendencies and return to a universal ethos for the preservation of that which is good and which we call Western Civilization. Joe Atwell seems at home with Catholics such as Tim Kelly on "Our Interesting Times" podcast. He would not seem to be at home with the New Atheists such as Sam Harris. This is my attempt to explain this and give us a way out. Right now I call it The Magic Bible. I for one do not want to throw the baby out with the bath water with the likes of Sam Harris and others who would suggest REASON is our new god. God forbid. I think what I am suggesting is possibly that we are an emergent deity. Correct me and give me your opinion.

What follows are a synopsis and working draft of what is currently a 35 page work. Please forgive my layman lack of sophistication and scholarship. It is the best I can do after a lifetime of Biblical studies.

My Thesis presented:

The standard logic is that there are only two sides to the subject of religion and God. The one side is that the Bible and belief in Jesus etc requires "faith" and therefore is unscientific proving that Atheism and humanism are a superior modern ante-thesis. The other side of-course is that there are the three Abrahamic faiths but especially New Testament Christianity which is "True" and with equal validity because of the supernatural intervention into time and space by way of the Resurrection. But wait! Dr. Richard Carrier and other academics who are Atheists and believe in the Humanist Religion have not considered and neither have most Christians that there might be a third way. Since it is obvious that Christianity is the foundation of Western Civilization why not conclude that it is therefore "the will of the gods", as was the case with Roman or Greek philosophers? Possibly a simple upgrade is all that is needed? The conceptual system of Neo-Platonism with its Logos and lesser "logi" seemed to be quite sufficient for the Neo-classical Greek philosophers.

We live in a Post-Modern World. Human thought regarding metaphysical subjects in the west is most often done with a left brain linear thinking process. This approach until 900 years ago resulted in a world view that until now has been mostly abandoned by the same left brain thinking public especially in the west. They see religious dogma as promoted by the Roman Catholic Church and Anglo-Saxon Protestant Fundamentalism as outdated and irrelevant. This means that society in the west especially in the United States, is left fragmented and without any public forum worthy of its intrinsic worth and true identity. This work and the thesis presented here is an attempt to make a working hypothesis that when tested will be acceptable to the Rational left brain and at the same time provide a scaffolding and methodology for understanding the unique place of the Bible as a central store of metaphysical knowledge and enlightenment.

The Jordan Peterson experience

As this is being written a phenomena in the public forum is the Jordan Peterson experience. It is touted as presenting a more Rational evolutionary based but practical set of 12 rules said to help people with living their lives better, especially young men starting out and seeking to find relationships and satisfying carriers. But the Jordan Peterson experience is more than the latest self help series by a popular author with a gift for rhetoric and critical thinking. J.P. will say he has no religion, no metaphysical belief system, no ideology and no antidote to the horrors he feels could be replicated if we fail to heed the lessons contained in the Christian Religion. This work is an attempt to go beyond the Jordan Peterson experience and build on his conclusions about our current political crisis and academic malaise and present the solution and "fix". The changes must be felt and be heard in the university setting including but not limited to sociology, anthropology, religion, philosophy and psychology.

Christianity is a religion with its origins in Egyptian Sun / Son worship. Christianity is not a derivation of Judaism as popularly understood. Dr. Richard Carrier would have us believe that Judaism is the substrate for the gospel narratives and the N.T. is an adaption. This is a raw assumption on his part negated by other observations that he correctly and astutely does present. Like for instance he states that the two of the Jewish prophets through their Biblical narratives tell us that God has made them the rulers of the world while in reality they are displaced and removed by the Persian Empire which is clearly superior and more powerful.
Only Christianity with the Sun as its universal symbol is a true monotheistic religion.
Christianity in contrast to Judaism developed into its current form over a period of approximately 1400 years. This corresponds the development of Western Civilization and what is universally accepted as the modernist era. The Christian New Testament also is a 1400 year old development which can be understood as a development taking many years. But instead of amalgamation with preexistent religious ideas it was busy was culling and narrowing its doctrines to that of its current character and format with sacraments and Scripture and structure. Corresponding with this consolidation process was the separation of Byzantine Eastern Orthodoxy from the last trappings of the old Roman religion residing in Roman Catholicism.

The Bible is a code book.

On the surface at its best it would seem to be a random collection of metaphysical reflections embedded in mythical stories. The metaphysical concepts are real, the stories are not, and do not matter as such. None of the stories in it are meant to be taken as factual literal history. The typological pre-configurations found in its various texts must NOT be placed side by side with perfect correlation. Inspiration should not be thought of as a word for word "miracle" of authority but instead the entire development a fluid as it were "miracle" in the aggregate using human instruments of much time and trial.

The typological pre-configurations found throughout must be used as templates of contrast for the purpose of emphasis and amplification of specific ideas. When these differences are lifted out of the text for the purpose of noting their contrast, the beauty and wonder of the metaphysical concepts become apparent. To do otherwise results in complete confusion for the reader / practitioner /devotee. If one understands this and approaches the book regardless of format and it is used in this spirit it will open itself as a flower and reveal itself to the soul.

The process of one religion morphing into another is called syncretism. What we are saying is that if this process is intellectually quite understandable considering human nature why not accept that it is also quite natural and metaphysically acceptable? In other words the entire evolvement including "The Resurrection" is acceptable and should be accepted because it just is. You change at your peril what is recorded in the annuls of humanity that which CANNOT be change. It is a Jungian archetype that is just as unique and necessary to the human psyche as is any other. Only the irrational materialistic assumption that there is no "god" can completely account for this myopic prejudice.

Christianity is a religion with its origins in Egyptian Sun / Son worship. Christianity is not a derivation of Judaism as popularly understood. Judaism is a religion with its origins in the Canaanite fertility cults with feminine deities and human sacrifice. Only Christianity with the Sun as its universal symbol is a true monotheistic religion. Judaism is not and for certain Talmudic Judaism is NOT. Western civilization is built on the elements that have been combined into the Christian Religion during its evolutionary phase from 4 BC to approximately 1441 AD. There is no such thing as a "Judeo-Christian foundation" for Western Civilization. The two religions of Judaism and Christianity over the last 900 years have gradually amalgamated into one degraded abortive dysfunctional confusion of nonsense. This is due to the carryover of ideas and concepts unique to the Canaanite fertility religion known as Judaism which has contaminated Christianity.







 

Richard Stanley

Administrator
Hi Iconn2222, welcome to the forum.

Wow, your thesis is very bold and provocative indeed. There are some points in your presentation above where I can concur, however, other places where strongly disagree. Overall, your thesis might seem to be a restatement of so-called Positive Christianity, that shorn of Judaic trappings. While I do certainly agree that Christianity is crypto-Sun worship, and in fact, a typological restatement of Osiris, Isis, Horus, and Set, I'm afraid for your thesis's sake that the historical Christian syncretism with Judaism was very intentional by those who crafted the then new religion.

The Logos of Christianity is indeed the same as the Platonic and Pythagorean one, and thus includes such as the '153 fishes in the net', and the honoring of Castor and Pollux in the Paul narrative. And these Classical 'Greeks' acknowledged their indebtedness to Egypt, and today we know that the 'Hebrew' tribe of Dan (that which gave rise to the 'Nazarite' Samson) came to Canaan -- with a stop in Mycenae as the Danoi.

As to your claims that Judaism is strictly from a Canaanite basis, I think it more broadly has input vectors from that, Egypt, Mesopotamia, and Persia. I consider it a wholly synthetic construct with no more ethnic reality than that of the umbrella term of 'gentiles', the latter actually referring to the relatively few elites that tracked their 'gens'. One might easily conclude that Abraham's aborted sacrifice of Isaac was a message from the conquering overlords of Canaan (be they from Egypt or later Persia) that the newly imposed order would not tolerate human sacrifice any longer. The Sabbah brothers, in their Secrets of the Exodus have amply proved, in my opinion, that the 18th and 19th Egyptian Dynasties were a key vector into Judaism, displaying trappings of Egyptian elite culture that would have been hard to have been sourced from such as Persia, which supplied trappings from Zoroastrianism.

That said, prior to the 'corruptions' of Modern Liberalism, the basis of Western Civilization was the feudal system, which looks suspiciously modeled upon that order described in Genesis 47, based upon a 'collusion' between the 'Hebrew' [sic] Joseph and 'Pharaoh'. Whether fact or fiction, the forced emigration described there also describes that similar method was employed by the Assyrians and Babylonians (and functionally what we are witnessing today with the Syrians being displaced into Europe). Typology in real life. Perhaps the difference being the more veiled instigations by the cover of deniability fronts to do the dirty work. Here read Peter Levenda's The Hitler Legacy for details on how Kaiser Wilhelm colluded with his Ottoman counterpart to launch what we distortedly perceive of today as global Islamic jihad, and thus in Levenda's mind we are still fighting WWI, another Hundred Years War.

What Levenda didn't go into enough was the dialectic role (to that of the Kaiser) of the British to have them create the thesis and antithesis (vis-a-vis Zionism) needed for this conflict, which they and their descendants could stand aside and watch the bloody play unfold over the years, in order to achieve their new synthesis, the new revelation. I bring this latter business up only as one instance where your "code book" can also be seen as a 'scripted' playbook. The Jew's OT even explains the scripted role of the players that we've seen played out in the Christian era, the hierarchical structure of society explained by the Abrahamic narrative down to the family of Jacob. Here, the 'tribe' of Judah serves the descendants of the Egyptian elites, via Ephraim.

Consistent with this familial schema, the servant of the Kaiser, in colluding with the Ottoman sultan, was Max von Oppenheim, scion of the German-Jewish banking family and a Catholic mother.
 
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Iconn2222

New Member
Hi Iconn2222, welcome to the forum.

Wow, your thesis is very bold and provocative indeed. There are some points in your presentation above where I can concur, however, other places where strongly disagree. Overall, your thesis might seem to be a restatement of so-called Positive Christianity, that shorn of Judaic trappings. While I do certainly agree that Christianity is crypto-Sun worship, and in fact, a typological restatement of Osiris, Isis, Horus, and Set, I'm afraid for your thesis's sake that the historical Christian syncretism with Judaism was very intentional by those who crafted the then new religion.

The Logos of Christianity is indeed the same as the Platonic and Pythagorean one, and thus includes such as the '153 fishes in the net', and the honoring of Castor and Pollux in the Paul narrative. And these Classical 'Greeks' acknowledged their indebtedness to Egypt, and today we know that the 'Hebrew' tribe of Dan (that which gave rise to the 'Nazarite' Samson) came to Canaan -- with a stop in Mycenae as the Danoi.

As to your claims that Judaism is strictly from a Canaanite basis, I think it more broadly has input vectors from that, Egypt, Mesopotamia, and Persia. I consider it a wholly synthetic construct with no more ethnic reality than that of the umbrella term of 'gentiles', actually referring to the few elites that tracked their 'gens'. One might easily conclude that Abraham's aborted sacrifice of Isaac was a message from the conquering overlords of Canaan (be they from Egypt or later Persia) that the newly imposed order would not tolerate human sacrifice any longer. The Sabbah brothers, in their Secrets of the Exodus have amply proved, in my opinion, that the 18th and 19th Egyptian Dynasties were a key vector into Judaism, displaying trappings of Egyptian elite culture that would have been hard to have been sourced from such as Persia, which supplied trappings from Zoroastrianism.

That said, prior to the 'corruptions' of Modern Liberalism, the basis of Western Civilization was the feudal system, which looks suspiciously modeled upon that order described in Genesis 47, based upon a 'collusion' between the 'Hebrew' [sic] Joseph and 'Pharaoh'. Whether fact or fiction, the forced emigration described there also describes that said was employed by the Assyrians and Babylonians (and functionally what we are witnessing today with the Syrians being displaced into Europe). Typology in real life. Perhaps the difference being the more veiled instigations by the cover of deniability fronts to do the dirty work. Here read Peter Levenda's The Hitler Legacy for details on how Kaiser Wilhelm colluded with his Ottoman counterpart to launch what we distortedly perceive of today as global Islamic jihad, and thus in Levenda's mind we are still fighting WWI, another Hundred Years War.

What Levenda didn't go into enough was the dialectic role (to that of the Kaiser) of the British to have them create the thesis and antithesis (vis-a-vis Zionism) needed for this conflict, which they and their descendants could stand aside and watch the bloody play unfold over the years, in order to achieve their new synthesis, the new revelation. I bring this latter business up only as one instance where your "code book" can also be seen as a 'scripted' playbook. The Jew's OT even explains the scripted role of the players that we've seen played out in the Christian era, the hierarchical structure of society explained by the Abrahamic narrative down to the family of Jacob. Here, the 'tribe' of Judah serves descendants of the Egyptian elites, via Ephraim.

Consistent with this familial schema, the servant of the Kaiser, in colluding with the Ottoman sultan, was Max von Oppenheim, scion of the German-Jewish banking family and a Catholic mother.
---
To Richard in reply:
P.S. I uploaded a *.mht reply copy because it was too hard to get the commentary fonts to work right. See the link at the end for the PDF. It has my comments in bold. It does not retain paragraph formatting well either. I am a neophyte.

To Richard in reply: Thanks. One of the many reasons for writing this Magic Bible work besides being a catharsis is my deep concern for my fellow man and the great deception we have been given with post Modernism. I am attempting to read simultaneously The Theological Origins of Modernity by Gillespie, Saint John of Damascus Jesus King of Edessa by Ralph Ellis and finally The Essential Frithjof Schuon (a German universalist). I feel like I wasted much time and someone could have directed me sooner? I don’t know. I saw Robert Eisenman and had him autograph my copy of James the Just and the Habakkuk peshur. That did not do anything for me but send me on a wild goose chase. My goal is to bypass some of the scholarship and get to some quantifiable meat that the average person can quickly sink their teeth into.


I had a synchronicity immediately after finishing the first draft. It was eerie and exhilarating at the same time. Writing is often the habit of Engineers when the mechanistic universe becomes boring. I used to get the RSV down when I was in College and lonely. I never got any comfort from it, just wonder and ideas. I could spend an afternoon with someone like you on my back patio. So much fun. (Is that ok to say?)


I would like to send some more of my manuscript to interested forum members who are sincere as Robert . It is obvious what my first name is. What I sent is a mere sampling of some paragraphs and incomplete at that. I do not care to put anything out there for the bots or Google to store permanently on Archive.com or? Or God forbid have psychopaths at my door! I only have at the moment three friends that I am comfortable with sharing these ideas and it took years and many chance meetings until I found them. But none of them are Christians. Does that tell you something? Please all be kind. I do not need any harassment.



Wow, your thesis is very bold and provocative indeed. Yes there are some assumptions but no more crazy than anything else eh? There are some points in your presentation above where I can concur, however, other places where strongly disagree. Overall, your thesis might seem to be a restatement of so-called Positive Christianity, that shorn of Judaic trappings. I am not sure I want to be blindsided by “oh that is a rewrite of XYZ. If you or anyone can enlighten me please do. While I do certainly agree that Christianity is crypto-Sun worship, and in fact, a typological restatement of Osiris, Isis, Horus, and Set, I'm afraid for your thesis's sake that the historical Christian syncretism with Judaism was very intentional by those who crafted the then new religion.

The Logos of Christianity is indeed the same as the Platonic and Pythagorean one, and thus includes such as the '153 fishes in the net', and the honoring of Castor and Pollux in the Paul narrative. And these Classical 'Greeks' acknowledged their indebtedness to Egypt, and today we know that the 'Hebrew' tribe of Dan (that which gave rise to the 'Nazarite' Samson) came to Canaan -- with a stop in Mycenae as the Danoi.

I chopped off the quote here because it was over 10,000 words to quote.
 

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Richard Stanley

Administrator
Iconn2222, you can use your mouse to select specific text you want to reply to. Just wait for a small reply button to appear and click on that. Then you may post a specific reply directly to that text. You may repeat this as many times as you'd like, until reaching the word limit for each posting.
 

Richard Stanley

Administrator
As this is being written a phenomena in the public forum is the Jordan Peterson experience. It is touted as presenting a more Rational evolutionary based but practical set of 12 rules said to help people with living their lives better, especially young men starting out and seeking to find relationships and satisfying carriers. But the Jordan Peterson experience is more than the latest self help series by a popular author with a gift for rhetoric and critical thinking. J.P. will say he has no religion, no metaphysical belief system, no ideology and no antidote to the horrors he feels could be replicated if we fail to heed the lessons contained in the Christian Religion. This work is an attempt to go beyond the Jordan Peterson experience and build on his conclusions about our current political crisis and academic malaise and present the solution and "fix". The changes must be felt and be heard in the university setting including but not limited to sociology, anthropology, religion, philosophy and psychology.

Christianity is a religion with its origins in Egyptian Sun / Son worship. Christianity is not a derivation of Judaism as popularly understood. Dr. Richard Carrier would have us believe that Judaism is the substrate for the gospel narratives and the N.T. is an adaption. This is a raw assumption on his part negated by other observations that he correctly and astutely does present. Like for instance he states that the two of the Jewish prophets through their Biblical narratives tell us that God has made them the rulers of the world while in reality they are displaced and removed by the Persian Empire which is clearly superior and more powerful.

Only Christianity with the Sun as its universal symbol is a true monotheistic religion.

Christianity in contrast to Judaism developed into its current form over a period of approximately 1400 years. This corresponds the development of Western Civilization and what is universally accepted as the modernist era. The Christian New Testament also is a 1400 year old development which can be understood as a development taking many years. But instead of amalgamation with preexistent religious ideas it was busy was culling and narrowing its doctrines to that of its current character and format with sacraments and Scripture and structure. Corresponding with this consolidation process was the separation of Byzantine Eastern Orthodoxy from the last trappings of the old Roman religion residing in Roman Catholicism.
I'm not sure if Iconn2222 is planning on coming back to this forum or not, and there is a lot to unpack in his complete initial posting. In the mean time, or in lieu of, I will gradually respond to various specifics, many of which make overbroad generalizations to properly understand and/or make further arguments from. As such, I will first attempt to piecemeal respond to the above quoted 4 paragraphs.

First off, it is not made clear above what Jordan Peterson (JP) feels is being neglected that then leads into the discussion of Christianity being a solar religion, of which almost all exoteric Christians vehemently deny. Does JP believe that Xianity is a solar religion? I don't know. As anyone who has an understanding of the esoteric basis of Xianity, such as discussed clearly by David Fideler in his Jesus Christ, Sun of God, Xianity is indeed a solar religion. The various numbers, such as '513' and '5,000' used within the NT are part of the Platonic/Pythagorean corpus of sacred geometry, which inherent numerology is indeed centrally focused on the Sun and the cosmos. The name Iesous Christos is explicitly solar in terms of sacred geometry, while the infamous 666 of the Beast also relates directly to the solar 888.

However, any schmart Jew of the day, like Philo of Alexandria, would understand the same, and would have understood that Jewish gematria operates upon the same precepts as the Greek. It is my understanding that Joseph Atwill believes that Josephus and his Hasmonean/Maccabees were not 'Jewish', and in this sense I might agree with him, but this begs the question as to just what is the true nature of the entire Jewish phenomenon and Jewish 'identity'. The late Nicholas DeVere claims that his red-headed, green-eyed clan of uber-Normans were the real 'players' of the Bible, not the tribe of Judah. Indeed, the last chapters of Genesis detail that Judah and his descendants will indeed be subservient to the descendants of Joseph and noble Egyptian blood (Ephraim). The French rabbis, the Sabbah brothers, in their Secrets of the Exodus, reveal that the 'Yahud' was the name of the personal priesthood of Amenhotep III, the father of Akhenaton, the leader of the overtly solar cult of the Aten.

As such, I have asserted that so-called Temple Cult Judaism was a purposeful false dialectic, evidences most strongly by the 613 (excluding the Ten Commandments, of course) Mosaic Laws of cultural inversion, the function of which was to serve as a transitional cultural foil to the polytheistic trappings of the Egyptian (and Mesopotamian) system(s).
Given enough cultural breathing time (no matter when one actually starts the Judaic narrative clock) the inversions were reversed by Xianity's drivers and the prior Egyptian avatars (Osiris, Isis, Horus, and Seth) were restored under new names, the other peripheral gods and goddesses thrown off, for 'universalities' (the meaning of 'Catholicism') sake.

With all of this we can see the mechanisms of the planned evolution of 'religion' from its animistic roots, through polytheism and other stops to what we have today, and what will come next relatively soon. In this sense and others, Judaism is indeed central to the spine and germination of Western Civilization and its painful and bloody (via such as Conquest) development. Ironically, or sardonically, DeVere claimed that his specific clan were the real, and only Arya. That there may be truth to the claim of some that there was indeed a Christianity before the Nicene Christianity we know today is quite likely true, via the numerous 'dying gods' hung annually upon their tree and resurrected. Or even being drawn from such as Buddhism, a derivative of Hinduism and its 'Krishna'. But, so what? Most such people occupied by this seem desperate to participate in the traditional, institutional Catholic pre-occupation of vilification of the Jews, via such memes as being killers of Christ. The sardonic reality of which is that if someone hadn't have killed Jesus, there could be no Christianity as we know it, in either its literal of metaphorical interpretations.

In any case, I can't figure out why JP's alt-right pansies are so afraid of women? What am I missing? As far as I can tell, most of these individuals are beta-males, frustrated by their inability to keep up with the 'relative' empowerment of women in recent decades. Instead they should refocus upon the internal transformations that one can make on there own to become a calm and confident alpha. No Christ, solar or otherwise, need apply.
 

Iconn2222

New Member
I have modified my premise somewhat. What do you think?

In Group Identity and Cultural Divisions
A Treatise on the two Divisions.
The Fox in the Hen House
or
Toward a Generic Culture Gray Everywhere
The premise of this treatise is that social identity theory is used to promote many causes most of which are radical and harmful to society but for the first time we will show how a knowledge of group identify and cultural divisions can show us that there is a fox in the hen house. And we will show that religion for all its brutality is evolving to the good especially in Christianity. We will also show that the traditional explanation for the fall of nations with its emphasis on economic cycles, economics and political power is in error. The fall of great Empires including the United States of America is the problem of In Group Identity. The story of Western Civilization is the story of the three Abrahamic faiths. The rocky road toward a western tradition is the story that unfolds in the Biblical Old Testament. One could say that it is a story of Good Better and Best.
 

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Richard Stanley

Administrator
I have modified my premise somewhat. What do you think?
Based just upon your synopsis, yes, you have modified your premise. I will read your latest effort for more detail.

As you might have noticed, I have started making comments upon Jordan Peterson's Bible lectures. I find some value and agreement, but in other ways I think think he goes far astray.

Also, have you read my comments about the Catholic Church's announcements on the coming of Space Jesus (my name for him/her/it), based upon the Jesuit's and NASA's LUCIFER telescope in Arizona? And how this applies to the Jesuit's formulation of the Futurist eschatology that they spread into the 'Protestant' evangelical movement? That is, the new revelation, and new covenent, the new order.

I've also expanded on the works of Vallient and Fahy's Creating Christ, the latter of which Price is accepting as proof that the Flavians were involved in establishing Christianity (or Chrestianity per Bartram). This from the Flavian imperial iconography of the fish and anchor which was also the symbol of Christianity before 'Flavius' Constantine replaced it with the cross. In any case, I have tied Christianity to being the replacement of the Homeric Greco-Roman system of the dual saviors, Castor and Pollux, the divine egg-born brothers of the divine Helen. This is all consistent with Fideler's discussions of the complex Pythagorean divine geometry embedded in the New Testament.

Paul took the ship, the Castor and Pollux, to Rome, from Malta, where he 'introduced' Paulene Christianity to Rome and the Jews there. The scholar J. Rendell Harris demonstrated that the cult of the divine twins, variously named in respective localities were transformed by the Church into saints with typological attributes and names.

Regards
 

Iconn2222

New Member
I have expended a lot of energy. I had a knee replaced and not sure what shoe is going to drop next. Jordan Peterson is not our savior for sure. I left a few choice comments on the JP thread for what it is worth.
 

Jerry Russell

Administrator
Staff member
Considering this:

Christianity is nothing more or less than the divine template of mankind.
And, from the PDF:

the purpose [of Christianity] is much the same as in controlling insects [that is, Jews].
The italicized interpolations are by yours truly, but I'm pretty sure I get Iconn2222's meaning correctly. Also, the 'Fox in the Hen House' mentioned in Iconn2222's post apparently represent the Pharisees, aka Jews.

It seems that Iconn2222 has fallen for the Biblical false dialectic that Jews are to be regarded as the arch nemesis of Christianity, and indeed "Western Civilization" in general.
 
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Richard Stanley

Administrator
It seems that Iconn2222 has fallen for the Biblical false dialectic that Jews are to be regarded as the arch nemesis of Christianity, and indeed "Western Civilization" in general.
Yes, this is so.

If he had read Hadas's classic, Hellenistic Culture, Fusion and Diffusion, then he too could have discerned the formation of the Cultural False Dialectic, which the entire book is a discussion and comparison of the mirror images of Judaic and Hellenistic cultures (the latter which extends to the Roman - and American). And that Hadas demonstrates how the Hasmoneans were more Hellenizers than not. Thus the affinity between Josephus and the Flavians. Imagine of Hadas had discussed the implications of the Mosaic Laws of Cultural Inversion that way that Assmann did. As it was Hadas felt compelled to warn, or signal, in his Intro that 'some' would be unhappy with what he was revealing. Of course, one had to read between the lines of the massive data, excepting the part about the Hasmoneans.

As Atwill has discussed, as have others, like Shahak, Rabbinic Judaism was bent to the Roman will ... for a purpose, not because the Romans had any problem with nailing real people to real crosses. James Carroll in his Constantine's Sword demonstrating in detail the constant mention in Catholic theology, since the time of Augustine, of this vital purpose of keeping the Jews around, in the eyes of the faithful. To serve as negative examples, because the Church understood psychological messaging very well.

Now, Catholic traditionalists complain that either the Church has been infiltrated by Illuminati Jews in the last century or so, or that the Jesuits were a Jewish infiltration from the time of Ignatius of Loyola himself. Tarpley has discussed that the bishop (or archbishop?) of Venice was encouraging John Calvin while at the same time sponsoring the formation of the Jesuits. I say this is evidence of more Divide and Conquer, a stratagem to achieve a specific purpose or two (See note 1). Calvin was a divinity student at the Sorbonne, and he had access to read the scriptures separate from Gutenberg's invention. Calvin would 'discover' the biblical doctrine of the Predestination of the Elect, which is an esoteric, canonic doctrine of the Church, kept away from the Catholic catechism presented to the muggles (See note 2). For this and the argument over the means of Salvation, the papacy was declare the AntiChrist, the concept taken from the apocalypse narrative in Revelation, the discussion of the end and beginning of ages.

The Alpha and Omega fits with the Hellenistic cutting edge 'Science' back in the day, based upon their understanding of the Zodiacal Precession of the Equinox. And this takes us to what I call the Quantum End Times of the Jesuits. Supposedly to fend of the Protestant claims of the papacy being the apocalyptic AntiChrist, the Jesuits came up with two mutually exclusive schools of interpretation. The first is the Preterist School, which is more traditional in having the Second Coming be long before, such as either in 70 AD, or with Constantine's deed. The second was the Futurist School, where the End Times were yet to come. The Church in all its wisdom endorsed both, as doing so, provided, as a pretext, at least, that the papacy could not possibly be the AntiChrist of bookended by these interpretations. I actually agree with the Church about the Quantum Apocalypses, but for different reasons. The Earth still wobbles for one reason.

The Evangelicals were delivered the Futurist interpretation, via such as Cyrus Scofield, and with the help of the Oxford University Press, which provides a layer of deniability for the Mother Church. For the Low Church Evangelicals this was like manna from Heaven (See note 3). Ironically, being more attuned to closely reading the scriptures than others, they somehow also noted that the so-called propecies in Daniel are explicit (thus there can be no legitimate denials) in how to interpret them, that the metaphors are about the rise and fall of empires and later nations. Albeit such as I can deny that they are prophecies, but rather scripts.

Thus, in general I agree, with some quibbles, about admiral Flavio Barbiero's analysis in his Secret Society of Moses, about how Josephus's extended Hasmonean family spread into Europe and became the inbred Euro-royals. I quibble that it was all done intermingled with the Sabine Roman elites. They created the Mithraic lodges to steer the forming of the exoteric Christian/Chrestian Church, until it was no longer needed via Constantine (that whippersnapper from York). The Hasmoneans did this with the Romans, symbolic of Esau regaining his rightful Abrahamic blessing, and later, after WWII(?), the two sticks (Ephraim and Judah) become one. The two sticks hearken back to the tabernacle, which we know today as referring to the pharaonic military campaign tents. And John XXIII knew he was the Jews, Joseph. Joseph was born of the loved wife, and Judah was born of the hated wife. Doesn't matter if its all literal or metaphorical.

The 18th and 19th dynasty pharaohs created the False Dialectic, sponsoring and nurturing the mirror opposite cultures of Judaism and the post-Trojan War, post-Bronze Age societies of the future. All for the purpose of transitioning from warming Egypt to more comfy Europe. This is why there are so many Egyptian obelisks and such in Rome, and the USA. The peeps, no matter where, generally don't like to move around, so you must create an 'evil' foil to distract them while you pull the rugs out from under them. Today Jerusalem, tomorrow the world, and the goddess Victory stands with a foot atop the globe.

  1. The learned and lusty Henry VIII had just been declared a Defender of the Catholic Faith not long before launching his divorce proceeedings against the sister of the Holy Roman Emperor, coincidentally(?) the latter a boyhood friend of Ignatius of Loyola. As a so-called Protestant Church, the Church of England was not much differnt liturgically that the Roman Church. One can see it more as a means to mitigate and steer the other Protestants, while presenting the veil of opposition, i.e. controlled opposition. Henry was really going to risk war over this, when in the end he ended up with a 'virgin' queen successor.
  2. Calvin (not his real name) was a student along with Ignatius of Loyola (not his real name), along with Michael Severtus. Calvin ended up turning the non-trinitarian heretic, Severtus, over to Loyala's Inquisition, where Severtus was burned at the stake. The names Calvin and Ignatius were code names. More controlled opposition.
  3. Today the Protestant Churches are getting rolled back into the Mother Church. The Church of England has been in discussions for some time. The Lutheran Church has gone back, and the Methodist are moving that way. The Presbyterians are grey and moribund, leaving only the fundamentalists to act in the typological role of apocalyptic zealots, resisting the ordained millennial new age. Time stops for no one.
 
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Richard E

New Member
Interesting discussions. What makes sense to me is that the Hebrew Matthew, as translated by George Howard, provides ample evidences to the fact of current "Christian" scriptures alterations. If we take the entire Christian Bible we can all reference Old Testament passages to both the Hebrew to English translation used by Jews, as well as "The Dead Sea Scrolls Bible" to show the Christian editions have altered critical texts. All the critical texts altered promote things God never said in the Hebrew editions. I think the "truth" is recoverable, but only if the recovery is based on the words of God that can be assured through the Hebrew records. I've done some work on this, and certainly invite corrections or additional insight! It's a starting point to "Restore" as spoken by the prophet Isaiah, as well as the fact that we, as Christians, need to acknowledge we have "inherited lies from our fathers." The core seems to be that the context of all the teachings of Jesus is the spoken words of God and their interpretation and application to life - that we may live and not remain in the "prison houses" of lies our "faith fathers" invented. http://www.onediscipletoanother.org
 
Now I have to highlight your point here, Richard...
  1. The learned and lusty Henry VIII had just been declared a Defender of the Catholic Faith not long before launching his divorce proceeedings against the sister of the Holy Roman Emperor, coincidentally(?) the latter a boyhood friend of Ignatius of Loyola. As a so-called Protestant Church, the Church of England was not much differnt liturgically that the Roman Church. One can see it more as a means to mitigate and steer the other Protestants, while presenting the veil of opposition, i.e. controlled opposition. Henry was really going to risk war over this, when in the end he ended up with a 'virgin' queen successor.
  2. Calvin (not his real name) was a student along with Ignatius of Loyola (not his real name), along with Michael Severtus. Calvin ended up turning the non-trinitarian heretic, Severtus, over to Loyala's Inquisition, where Severtus was burned at the stake. The names Calvin and Ignatius were code names. More controlled opposition.
  3. Today the Protestant Churches are getting rolled back into the Mother Church. The Church of England has been in discussions for some time. The Lutheran Church has gone back, and the Methodist are moving that way. The Presbyterians are grey and moribund, leaving only the fundamentalists to act in the typological role of apocalyptic zealots, resisting the ordained millennial new age. Time stops for no one.
  1. ...since as far as I'm aware, Servetus was burned at the stake not by Catholics but by the Calvinist Prots in imitation of the Inquisition's practices, since Catholic and Protestant alike are Trinitarian, except a few extreme Prots like Jehovah's Witlessness and Herbert Dubya Armstrong's Worlwide Church of God splinters. I would not have thought the Calvinists in Geneva would have let the Catholics actually burn Servetus for had they done so, Calvinist manipulators could easily have accused them of murder etc.
Yours faithfully
Claude
 

Richard Stanley

Administrator
Wow, two unrelated posts to this neglected thread. I forget what Iconn2222's thesis was now, so I'll have to go back and read this all again. But it will take me some time, all things considered.

Last first:

...since as far as I'm aware, Servetus was burned at the stake not by Catholics but by the Calvinist Prots in imitation of the Inquisition's practices, since Catholic and Protestant alike are Trinitarian, except a few extreme Prots like Jehovah's Witlessness and Herbert Dubya Armstrong's Worlwide Church of God splinters. I would not have thought the Calvinists in Geneva would have let the Catholics actually burn Servetus for had they done so, Calvinist manipulators could easily have accused them of murder etc.
You forgot to include the Unitarians.

The account that I read was that Calvin et al. did indeed turn him over to the Catholic Inquisition, but maybe this is somebody's propaganda? The account of Servertus was a pro-Servertus book otherwise. I can't remember the name of the book, and it was borrowed.

Calvin, Loyola, and Servetus were all students at the Sorbonne, at the same time. Calvin and Loyola were very well acquainted, but it is not known if Servetus was well acquainted with them or vice-versa. I suspect they were, as these were not that large classes back in the day. And, as I have related on other threads, the head Catholic cleric of Venice was encouraging the Calvinists at the same time he was sponsoring the formation of the Jesuits in supposed opposition to the wider Reformation, supposedly including the Calvinists.

I have a handbook, printed by your friends at Oxford, which includes a commentary on the Jesuits 'instructions', one of which is that they are not to initiate discussions regarding Predestination of the Elect, because it is indeed explicit in the Biblical canon, while not included in the catechism. Meaning ... it is an esoteric aspect of the Church, not for the hoi polloi. The implications of Predestination of the Faith is such is why the nascent Baptist denomination, of hoi polloi, had to quickly redact it from their first confession of faith, i.e. the Baptists are not the Elect. The Elect are those 'elite' who are occasionally called to 'elect' a new king from amongst their 'peers'.

Interesting discussions. What makes sense to me is that the Hebrew Matthew, as translated by George Howard, provides ample evidences to the fact of current "Christian" scriptures alterations. If we take the entire Christian Bible we can all reference Old Testament passages to both the Hebrew to English translation used by Jews, as well as "The Dead Sea Scrolls Bible" to show the Christian editions have altered critical texts. All the critical texts altered promote things God never said in the Hebrew editions. I think the "truth" is recoverable, but only if the recovery is based on the words of God that can be assured through the Hebrew records. I've done some work on this, and certainly invite corrections or additional insight! It's a starting point to "Restore" as spoken by the prophet Isaiah, as well as the fact that we, as Christians, need to acknowledge we have "inherited lies from our fathers." The core seems to be that the context of all the teachings of Jesus is the spoken words of God and their interpretation and application to life - that we may live and not remain in the "prison houses" of lies our "faith fathers" invented. http://www.onediscipletoanother.org
Hello Richard E, welcome to our forum. I quickly skimmed the page link you sent and my eye's were drawn to the following:

Protestants, Resorationaists and Reformationalists were all based on the false assumption that the Bible as received from ancient Rome is the inerrant word of God. ...

Amen!!!

I understand what you're saying about the 'Hebrew' gMatthew versus the others. Of course, there is the theory that the 4 canonic gospels were intentionally written to be focused on different target demographics, and hence the differences in outlook and such. But this means that there would necessarily be enough elements in each that each audience would see as coming from their prior respective 'traditions' or cultures at least.

In gMatthew Jesus tells the disciples that the temple will be razed to the ground "within their generation", and according to orthodox Christian chronology, it did get razed to the ground in 40 years time, the period a 'generation' was frequently taken as representing figuratively back in the day. But this 'fact' is generally taken (outside of fundamentalist context) to mean that the later writers (or redactors if you will) fixed these dates by retrodiction into the past. The purpose of doing so being for fulfilling Roman propaganda needs, as cryptically making Titus Flavius appear as the (Preterist) Second Coming. Titus and his 'god' father were amongst the so-called Good Emperors.

From what I can tell you are indeed in accord with us regard the 'Roman' nature and alliance of Paul. From my upbringing in (liberal) Northern Presbyterian Church and my more recent understanding of the Bible as being encrypted with various truths, some of which are disturbing from an existential (the Big Omega, not the personal omega) context, I am rather sympathetic to a re-evaluation of 'value' in the canon. My recent understandings have made me more understanding of the more metaphorical approach that the northern (a Civil War origin) Presbyterians took as a result of the German School efforts, ironically taken to prove the historicity of the texts.

In your link is discussed the 613 Mosaic 'laws' and we have a position on what the implementation of these laws was intended for. It was generally intended for the same reason as the later fake Reformation was fostered. It is about the formation of a desired separating of the flocks, what we call a false dialectic, and the Romans knew more plainly as Divide and Conquer.
 

Richard E

New Member
Thanks much for your kind comments. I was raised third generation preachers kid in the Church of Christ - who almost totally base their "plan of salvation" (hear, believe, repent, confess and be baptized - totally neglecting the need for discipleship to Jesus' teachings and thereby the need to keep the Ten Decrees as given by God to be the Covenant whereby all nations may be blessed.)

I've also gone through Rabbi Tovia Singers two volumes of "Let's Get Biblical" (a defense for Jews against the Calvinists in Yamika's). His arguments largely fail to address the Hebrew Matthew, and I've posted my site and questions to him for some time - but they are not addressed in reality - and he continues to spout the "Mark came first" mantra, as this is what most Christians have been told to believe.

You're certainly invited to carefully review the links to the Hebrew Gospel with interjected comments and supporting passages, as well as the link on the gospel and the Law - a new view going backwards through the Ten Decrees from the Hebrew to English account that shows the Ten Decrees are from God and totally just and reliable to this day - and showing the interrelationship of our love for God being reflected in our love for our fellow man and our planet and posterity and the need for true justice and that we MUST learn to discern "the one who serves God from the one who does not!"

It's no wonder the western world is fallling apart - they have believed the lies of Paul, Rabbi's, and all have been turning to men, instead of realizing the context of every teaching of Jesus (Yahshua) is the Everlasting Covenant - the Ten Decrees and supporting Scripture. Christian publishers have fallen dead in the street so far as the Truth of YHWH is conserned - how can we pray the "Lord's Prayer" if we don't even know His NAME?

If you find errors or good cause to rethink anything written on my site - do let me know! It's hard to do this on my own. My family and church have all but disfellowshipped me over what I've written to tell the Truth God gave - they just can't realize what a liar Paul is - and every eldership has done the same thing and even gave sermons to the congregation to NOT READ what I wrote in "One Disciple to Another - the Original Jesus". They are amazed at my scriptural references and then treat me like I'm Satan. Steve Quayle so much as called me the anti-christ.... for standing up for the teachings Jesus gave as recorded by his disciples..... Such is the life of one who dares speak truth to the deluded souls who refuse to hear God.
 

Richard E

New Member
We must also learn to distinguish between what is a Jew, who is a faithful Jew, and who is Zionist - each is absolutely distinct from the other.
We need to realize their "rabbi's" are dangerous to listen to - even Jonathan Cahn... lies in the name of God are lies - whether from Jew or Gentile.
 

Richard Stanley

Administrator
You are welcome for my kind comments, as I appreciate and understand what you've described going through. We do share a belief in what Paul's mission was that is perhaps the, or a, common core of how we are otherwise separated from our society.

That said, I'm not sure how one can identify who the real gospel Jesus was exactly from what has been added by others. For instance, how does one address the similarity of the Beatitudes to the teachings of the contemporaneous Cynic's, itinerant philosophers?

It's no wonder the western world is fallling apart - they have believed the lies of Paul, Rabbi's, and all have been turning to men
Well, one can argue, as I do, that the world is currently falling apart, because under the Futurist eschatology fomented by the Jesuits at their founding, and passed into the Evangelical and Pentacostal polities, that its Omega time is here - after which the Alpha time for the next Global age and revelation is to be delivered from the Heavens, by 'Space' Jesus and and his army of UFO's (and holograms and such). Even I cannot deny that Space Jesus was born on September 23, 2017 exactly and uniquely (for over 2,000 years - I checked) just as Revelation 12 has it.

There should be no surprise about the rabbis, as a consequence of the Jewish War one school of Pharisees was exterminated while the second was converted into what became today's Rabbinic Judaism. Originally they were placed under a Roman appointed ethnarch who answered to the imperial court, much like Josephus Flavius, who claims to be a Hasmonean Maccabee, did. Such is why Rabbi Singer will go silent.

We assert that the Western world was built upon a false dialectic, perhaps as its figurative spine. And that this is consistent with the thesis of the late Tupper Saussy in his Ruler's of Evil, who provides a coherent rendering of actual history of the West, including the colluding role of the Masons and Jesuits in the founding of the USA. And then you can understand why Jesuit based Catholics now have a strangehold of the three branches of the federal government, and the republic is about to collapse as the Roman one did with Julius Caesar, the first typological JC, as well as true and actual Pontifex Maximus of the Roman Church.

As you can see by our other discussion, we believe that 'Jesus' was both a grandson and greatgrandson of Julius Caesar and Cleopatra VII, whom the Talmud cryptically (as a locust, kamza, and son of a locust) accords as fomenting the war with the Romans, over the contrived issues of taxation, and nationalism versus globalism of the day.

And so, one must ask themselves, did the Virgo birth in Revelation 12 come to pass by divine agency, or via that its author was privy to such as the so-called Antikythera Mechanism?

https://postflaviana.org/community/index.php?threads/the-revelation-of-the-antikythera-mechanism.2610/
 

Seeker

Active Member
the Church of Christ - who almost totally base their "plan of salvation" (hear, believe, repent, confess and be baptized - totally neglecting the need for discipleship to Jesus' teachings
If we are talking about the same Church of Christ, I thought that they literally followed the New Testament teachings, without addition or subtraction. For example, they have no instrumental music in their churches, because it is not mentioned in the New Testament.
 

Richard E

New Member
You are welcome for my kind comments, as I appreciate and understand what you've described going through. We do share a belief in what Paul's mission was that is perhaps the, or a, common core of how we are otherwise separated from our society.

That said, I'm not sure how one can identify who the real gospel Jesus was exactly from what has been added by others. For instance, how does one address the similarity of the Beatitudes to the teachings of the contemporaneous Cynic's, itinerant philosophers?


Well, one can argue, as I do, that the world is currently falling apart, because under the Futurist eschatology fomented by the Jesuits at their founding, and passed into the Evangelical and Pentacostal polities, that its Omega time is here - after which the Alpha time for the next Global age and revelation is to be delivered from the Heavens, by 'Space' Jesus and and his army of UFO's (and holograms and such). Even I cannot deny that Space Jesus was born on September 23, 2017 exactly and uniquely (for over 2,000 years - I checked) just as Revelation 12 has it.

There should be no surprise about the rabbis, as a consequence of the Jewish War one school of Pharisees was exterminated while the second was converted into what became today's Rabbinic Judaism. Originally they were placed under a Roman appointed ethnarch who answered to the imperial court, much like Josephus Flavius, who claims to be a Hasmonean Maccabee, did. Such is why Rabbi Singer will go silent.

We assert that the Western world was built upon a false dialectic, perhaps as its figurative spine. And that this is consistent with the thesis of the late Tupper Saussy in his Ruler's of Evil, who provides a coherent rendering of actual history of the West, including the colluding role of the Masons and Jesuits in the founding of the USA. And then you can understand why Jesuit based Catholics now have a strangehold of the three branches of the federal government, and the republic is about to collapse as the Roman one did with Julius Caesar, the first typological JC, as well as true and actual Pontifex Maximus of the Roman Church.

As you can see by our other discussion, we believe that 'Jesus' was both a grandson and greatgrandson of Julius Caesar and Cleopatra VII, whom the Talmud cryptically (as a locust, kamza, and son of a locust) accords as fomenting the war with the Romans, over the contrived issues of taxation, and nationalism versus globalism of the day.

And so, one must ask themselves, did the Virgo birth in Revelation 12 come to pass by divine agency, or via that its author was privy to such as the so-called Antikythera Mechanism?

https://postflaviana.org/community/index.php?threads/the-revelation-of-the-antikythera-mechanism.2610/
I'm in need to read up on the thread principles foundations. My studies came from a different angle than Rome inventing or birthing Jesus. When faced that all I believed had fatal cracks and breaks in its foundations, as it had lead me to PTS issues from abuses recalled from childhood I realized what I believed could not be true or truth and it was like falling down into an endless well. It was suggested I needed to disregard whatever I was taught and determine what I believed to be true (which would be to reject lies). So I turned to see if what Jesus taught was true or not. What did he teach, and could it be proven true or not?

After noting all his teachings in the NT I realized there was no real "harmony of the gospels", but a disharmony that had largely been denied by all the Churches. Then after more study and investigation of the DSS and Hebrew Scripture - the proof is that Christian "Scripture" is both mistranslated and deliberately altered - that's where my investigation pointed to Rome, Syria, and corrupted Judaism that was rooted into Rome and the Catholic history.

From what I've discovered I don't think Jesus was invented by Rome because what he taught in the Hebrew Matthew has too deep of roots and fact to the Hebrew Scripture and the Teachings of God that Rome and Zionists deny and reject. The context of every teaching of Jesus appears to me to be the Ten Decrees and the spoken words of God in the Hebrew Scripture and being careful with what God said. Proof of this is noted throughout the Sermon on the Mount in my book, as well as the pagelink to the Hebrew gospel of Matthew. The context of the beatitudes are all to the Law and Prophets and Pslams - in the Hebrew. Why would or could Rome foment such a simple and true Jewish Jesus? Especially since we can see Rome allowed or supported alteration of the Jewish Jesus into a paganized Zodiac rendition as taught by Paul - who opposes everything the Jewish Jesus taught?

Seems most likely that Jesus did, as Isaiah 42 prophecied, that keeping the Teachings of God as given by God at Sinai and before - is honorable for men of all nations. I take this a step further to note we have inherited lies, and that the Teachings need to be restored to their rightful role.
 

Richard E

New Member
If we are talking about the same Church of Christ, I thought that they literally followed the New Testament teachings, without addition or subtraction. For example, they have no instrumental music in their churches, because it is not mentioned in the New Testament.
After realizing what Jesus taught, this proved Paul a liar. Church of Christ doctrine is flawed because they place the teaching of Paul on equal par to the Teachings of God and Jesus. Your noting about no instrumental music is a good example to note the difference.

With the Teachings of Jesus, one has to accept God gave good info and Teachings and will not lie or defy His word.
So if God approved of instruments in the Hebrew Scripture, and even the Psalms, such as 150 - they are certainly permitted. God had unquestionably allowed their use in worship. For the Church of Christ to then deny the Teaching and Word of God on the subject - was based on things written by Paul - not any teaching of Jesus. In effect, they spurned the words of God to follow Paul - as they do the rest of their doctrines.

My brothers are still Church of Christ preachers. They are struggling with the new virus crisis because Paul said "not to forsake the assembly of the saints", especially as the see "the day approaching". For them, to miss a single service is to forsake the gospel of Jesus, because Paul said so. They believe Paul was sent by God for us poor Gentiles because the whole Jewish Law thing is just too much for our poor gentile souls to grasp!!! Paul was such an ignoramus that he didn't even know there is no singular "seed" in Hebrew - it's always plural, nor did God say man was "fallen" at Eden.

The whole non-instrumental thing goes back to the Civil War false accusations of the Southerners against the Northerners - over a simple little Melodian reed organ brought in to assist the congregation with singing hymns. Violation of testifying falsely of a fellow, as well as their coveting not having the means to attain their own Melodian or Reed Organ.

They, as the rest of Christianity, are deluded because they don't know God gave the Everlasting Covenant for men of all nations the day it was spoken by Him at Sinai. Those Teachings of God are easy to understand, do, and thereby realize God continues to bless those who do them and honor Him as the one true God.

I never realized these things until taking the Teachings of Jesus as literal and looking for ways to implement them into what I did and how I viewed various things in life. God has blessed me beyond what my imaginations were. Reality is much superior to blind faith and faith without substance.
 
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