Holden = music industry Phoebe = audience

A new day

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This is not to take away from what Joe or Jerry have written, just wanted to add a differently revealed layer. We've got the clue that D.B. is Samuel Goldwyn, a man iconic of the Hollywood movie industry. Then what is Holden and Phoebe? At the time of publication the music industry was essentially the relationship between radio and records, and both these industries acted in accord to attract the elusive young female audience.
Holden indicates what he is not by dismissing sports, popular movies, popular theatre, mainstream magazines, newsreels. He shows what he is by seeking out popular jazz clubs, specifically jazz, and that he enjoys popular dance. Popular music and dance have long represented a sanitized expression of romantic love, that is, sexual relationships. Throughout the story six popular song titles are mentioned, one is alluded to, and one is fictional. Note that Holden describes himself as acting as young as 13, but he has gray hairs "millions of them." This indicates adulthood.
Phoebe is introduced as having red hair and in the following paragraph he quotes her saying, "Can you eat the herring?" Red herring! Holden dances with the 30-something Bernice, who to Holden is a good dancer. He then brags about his "kid sister" and her ability to dance. Salinger famously uses homonyms throughout CITR and the word, kid, is continuously used for both child or to trick, fool, josh another.
Another clue is the mystery of the "Little Shirley Beans" record sung Estelle Fletcher (b.1928- d.2005) The name Estelle means star, and a fletcher means seller of arrows. While she is real, Holden says her version of the song was "20 years ago." So the singer's age and recorded song do not add up. Holden says she sings it "whorehouse". Whorehouse style is better known as barrelhouse style, sounds like boogie-woogie. Holden thinks Phoebe will like it. Let's look at that again, a child's song, sung whorehouse style, for a 10 year old girl. (Bubblegum Pop, anyone?)
On his way to purchase the record, Holden observes a family walking, parents on the sidewalk, not paying attention to the little boy walking in the street, near the curb. The boy sings, "If a body catch a body coming through the rye." That makes Holden feel " . . . not so depressed any more."
Holden eventually drops ". . . old Phoebe's record. It broke into about fifty pieces." Perhaps this is a reference to multiple labels, radio stations, or even a tight playlist of top 50.
Radio City Music Hall and Radio City is mentioned several times.
Holden looks over Phoebe's notes. The first reads, "Bernice meet me at recess I have something very very important to tell you." Holden has Bernice, Phoebe has a Bernice. Same name, different person, adult/child. Another note reads, "Shirley you said you were sagitarius but your only taurus . . ." Here, the name Shirley, found in the fictitious children's song and in a child's note, and connected to the singer Estelle (star) Fletcher (arrow seller) and Sagitarius, (the archer) is a constellation (stars) or astrology (star knowledge). Star also means celebrity. Sagitarius as the archer is similar to Cupid, the demi-god of romantic/sexual relationships. Taurus, the bull, connects with all the bull references and repetitions throughout the story. Written as "only taurus", the pharse is ambigious. 'Only', as in her age or degree on the horoscope, or only 'bull', as in deceit. So Shirley is only bulls----. What else is?
 
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A new day

Member
This is not to take away from what Joe or Jerry have written, just wanted to add a differently revealed layer. We've got the clue that D.B. is Samuel Goldwyn, a man iconic of the Hollywood movie industry. Then what is Holden and Phoebe? At the time of publication the music industry was essentially the relationship between radio and records, and both these industries acted in accord to attract the elusive young female audience.

Continued from above

When Holden tells Phoebe, he wants to be the catcher in the rye, she corrects him, it is 'meet', not 'catch'. 'Meet' is the super clean version of 'fuck', but Holden's 'catch', falls between the no contact 'meet' and deep insertion 'fuck'. What I'm taking from this is popular music evokes sexual emotions without being pornographic. Pop music is just to the nice side of prurience.
From this we have the brother-sister, 16/10 dance. Think gray hair/ red hair-ing. "Old Phoebe turned the radio on." She is sitting cross-legged and listening to dance music. He asks her "You feel like dancing?" Holden tells us "she stays right with you", he mentions cross-over (radio & record term), dips (waltz, swing), jitterbug (jazz), and tango (latin). His following description is cryptic, giving a feeling that Phoebe has been programmed, like a robot. When the music stops, "She stays right in position"and "She won't even talk . . ."
While we see the two come together in the dark of D.B.'s bedroom. More is revealed in the daylight of the carousel scene. Again we have children separated from their parents. Phoebe had given Holden her Christmas spending money. Holden buys her a ticket for a ride on the carousel and tries to hand her back her money, much she wants him to keep her money, she even says "Please". The Carousel songs mentioned are "Oh, Marie" and "Smoke Gets in Your Eyes." She gets on a "big brown beat-up looking old horse." Before her second ride she kisses him and as he watches her, it begins to rain, rain "buckets" He gets very wet. Here he says, "I felt so damn happy . . . the way old Phoebe kept going around and around. . . she looked so damn nice. . . . going around and around . . ." Carousel represents a horse race which is life-as-a-race. Carousel goes around like a record. To a Freudian, riding a horse, represents intercourse. Holden (radio & records) has her money and Phoebe (the female listening audience) wants him to keep it and keep buying tickets to keep the ride (music and dance) going. A kiss can symbolize blessing or union, rain represents fertility. In the end Holden has his wet catharsis, (that's correct catharsis). And so secret society like, the story ends with a warning: "Don't ever tell anybody anything. If you do you start missing everybody." Thanks for reading. Any thoughts?
 

Jerry Russell

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Staff member
I think it's true that Holden seems to be associated with music, radio & dancing, and he enjoys and respects those arts & activities, much more so than anything else. I also agree that this seems complementary to Joe's analysis, rather than contradictory in any way.

A "red herring" is "something that misleads or distracts from a relevant or important issue." In what sense is Phoebe a red herring? Perhaps, in that she seems to be an ordinary little girl, and her friendly persona distracts from the sexualized situation she finds herself in?

Interesting observations about Estelle Fletcher, Radio City Music Hall, the carousel scene, Sagittarius and Cupid.

Thanks for posting!
 

A new day

Member
Thanks for your site, Postflavian, people need to wake up! The red herring is the narrative story. Just how the elites use the music industry to enslave the youth, is the revelation of the method. Holden's story starts with him struggling with his masculine aggression, that is, leadership & teamwork (D&S) and then goes into his various sexual encounters. The end of course, is Phoebe. If read with the awareness of archetypes, symbolism and sex slang, he does to Phoebe what was done to him. Yet,that is just one level! Keep in mind, war propaganda was turning into public relations and advertising. So on another level, Holden represents the music industry and Phoebe the audience. Note that Holden has gray hair and enjoys music and dancing, while Phoebe (red hair) is at the age of emerging sexual awareness. Again, if we apply metaphorical expression we can see the carousel scene on a different level. At the story's end, she wants him to keep the money, and he does, and again buys her a ticket to ride. (Beatles?) Music and dance, up and down, around and around. Ca-$hing. Bobbysoxers, fan clubs, groupies, and now Bieberlers. I suspect there is even more to be discovered.
 

A new day

Member
I know I'm obsessed but --- More about radio. Holden sarcastically says to Ackly, "Let me be your manager. Let me get you on the radio." And to the piano player at the Wicker Bar, "Ya ought to go on the radio. . . Ya need a manager?"
More on dancing. While Stradtler shaves, Holden tap-dances and tells the reader, "All I need is an audience. I'm an exhibitionist".
Holden's deceased brother Allie has red hair, red herring? A reference to WWII allies?
Another WWII reference? Ossenburger, translates from Dutch, as oxen-fortified town, consistent with all the bull references, but note the OSS.
The first line of chapter three reads,"I'm the most terrific liar you ever saw in your life."
While at the museum waiting for Phoebe, he takes two boys in to see the mummies. The younger boy's fly was open, Holden tells him, and "So he buttoned them up right where he was standing talking to me---he didn't even bother to go behind a post or anything." The same boy pronounces tombs as "toons", that can be an abbreviation for cartoons or musical tunes.
Curiouser and curiouser.
 

A new day

Member
I think it's true that Holden seems to be associated with music, radio & dancing, and he enjoys and respects those arts & activities, much more so than anything else. I also agree that this seems complementary to Joe's analysis, rather than contradictory in any way.

A "red herring" is "something that misleads or distracts from a relevant or important issue." In what sense is Phoebe a red herring? Perhaps, in that she seems to be an ordinary little girl, and her friendly persona distracts from the sexualized situation she finds herself in?

Interesting observations about Estelle Fletcher, Radio City Music Hall, the carousel scene, Sagittarius and Cupid.

Thanks for posting!
Jerry,
I'm coming to a different conclusion, as to the red hair-ring. Holden's sex life is the red herring, perhaps distracting himself, and reader, from his guilt of his involvement in the death of James Castle, or diverting the the mass audience from the battle of the competing elites above us profane. I'm enjoying your site, inspiring me to brush up on my critical thinking and writing skills. (I have to admit I am somewhat intimidated but inspired.) Thanks.
 

Jerry Russell

Administrator
Staff member
The carousel and skating rink, featured so prominently in CITR are both managed by the Trump Organization.

That does seem a little odd. Considering the huge scale of Trump operations, this seems like it would be such small potatoes for them as to be hardly worth the management attention. I'd say they probably bought it for the prestige.
 

A new day

Member
I'm going to watch that film.

Trump, like Clinton, like Soros, like all the rest, are the figureheads of the combine cabals behind them.

Carousel and skating rink, like a record turning round and round on the radio.

Bowie as Tesla! (Now I remember why I wanted to see that film when it premiered.)

Peace.
 

A new day

Member
I'm thinking The Trump Organization's management of those CITR related properties is a signal. A signal possibly to others in the upper echelon of central banks-global trust funds-global corporations. Economics has a circular pattern, like the carousel, markets go up and down, as the world spins around. I'm thinking CITR may be a kind of enigma to solve where solving it is the golden ticket to the upper levels. Golden ticket, gold ring, bearer bonds, etc.

I'm sure you saw the stories about Donald's uncle John G. Trump, a M.I.T. Professor of Engineering, who upon Tesla's death (1943), along with the FBI and the
Office of Alien Property, went through Tesla's belongings. John G. Trump, known for x-ray med tech and radar.

http://bigthink.com/paul-ratner/nik...d-has-a-surprising-connection-to-donald-trump
http://www.newyorker.com/news/amy-davidson/donald-trumps-nuclear-uncle
 

Jerry Russell

Administrator
Staff member
New Day, thanks for the links. Joe has mentioned the issue of Donald Trump's uncle on the podcast a couple of times.

Golden ticket, gold ring? There's a risk that some future nuclear technology could allow mass production of gold at cheap prices. But for now, given a choice between gold and the USD, I think gold is going to be the long-term winner. A lot of people like Bitcoin, but it looks like an intelligence honeypot to me. (End of off-topic digression...)
 
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