Group Think

[Richard Stanley]

"it's just easier to let the Church decide what [he] should think."

Welcome Marcilla,

Who is [he] might I ask? God perhaps? It's mostly from the manner of the words "what he should think.

What I had stated is part of my interpretation about Communion. The Christian eucharist has roots in older beliefs and was distilled down to what it is today, and of course, as such the Church has its own sanitized explanation for what it all means and what it is supposed to do for one. Did the priest explain that as well as what transubstantiation itself is? And was he giving the Church's explanation, or his?

'IKR', that's a new one on me, thx.

 

[Marcilla Smith]

Who is [he] might I ask? God perhaps?

You are quite welcome, and thank you for the greetings.

With regard to your question, I'm sorry I did not say that more clearly. The "he" in question was the speaker - the priest. It was easier for the priest to let the Church decide for him what he should believe, rather than try to figure it out for himself.

Personally, I find that a far less rewarding prospect, but then again, people tell me I have a tendency to "overthink things." In any event, I recognize that my own values do not invalidate the "logic" of the priest's statement.

I do not recall the priest saying much more about the ritual. Then again, I was confirmed in the United Methodist Church, which is closely related to the Roman Church in the Western liturgical tradition, so I received the official story at some point.

In my understand, the ritual of communion has a consistent logic. The supplicant takes the host and the cup, symbolizing the body and blood of the Lord Jesus Christ. In doing so, the supplicant ritualistically becomes one with the body (and blood) of their Lord. Biologically, the consumed elements are integrated into the supplicant's body (and blood), therefore the contents of the host and cup become part of the literal body of one who (by their ritual consumption of the elements) is, in turn, part of the body of Christ (figuratively).

As for the roots, I presume they are to be found in the Mystery Cults? But my understanding is that all detailed knowledge of them has been lost

 

[Richard Stanley]

With regard to your question, I'm sorry I did not say that more clearly. The "he" in question was the speaker - the priest. It was easier for the priest to let the Church decide for him what he should believe, rather than try to figure it out for himself.

Oh, OK, that makes sense. But of course, the Roman Church (and some others) wants the same thing for the parishioner as well as the priest. That is, to be the sole interface to God, and to be the sole interpreter of the message(s), like the oracles of before and such.

In my understand, the ritual of communion has a consistent logic. The supplicant takes the host and the cup, symbolizing the body and blood of the Lord Jesus Christ. In doing so, the supplicant ritualistically becomes one with the body (and blood) of their Lord. Biologically, the consumed elements are integrated into the supplicant's body (and blood), therefore the contents of the host and cup become part of the literal body of one who (by their ritual consumption of the elements) is, in turn, part of the body of Christ (figuratively).

As for the roots, I presume they are to be found in the Mystery Cults? But my understanding is that all detailed knowledge of them has been lost

Generally speaking, yes, it is connected to such as the communion rite of Dionysus. But in reality I think it extends back much further, as does the Jewish concept of the scapegoat, which roots can still be witnessed in primitive societies today. Certain tribal people would consume preparations of such as a deceased relatives brain so as to maintain reverential contact with them. Warriors would consume the blood of their vanquished enemies so as to garner their power. (Donald Trump would likely say why would he want to garner the power of a loser though.)

Ironically, the concept of everyone becoming one with Jesus, and thus with God, seems at odds with the Roman Church's insistence on being the sole intermediary. In any case, I believe that like secret society rites, including initiations, and including such as Greek fraternities and sororities, that such a rite is intended for increased bonding through the respective perversity of the rite. In one regard who can complain about people wanting to create unifying principles? My problem is that there is something wrong with the object of focus, even if sanitized.

 

[Jerry Russell]

Hello Marcilla and Collectivist, thanks for your comments.

religion itself can be harmful but to throw the baby out with the bath water is wrong. There is something within Christian, Islamic and Judaic faith that is fundamentally important for a society to function morally while at the same time, certain elements that make it corrosive.

Perhaps this is the guiding principle behind the evolution of these practices. That is, if there is some magical benefit to consumption of human flesh, perhaps early reformers hoped that the same benefit could be obtained by symbolically consuming a wafer and grape juice, without needing to actually kill anyone.

Or, one might speculate that at one time it was seen as necessary to castrate one's male slaves, and that circumcision might have evolved as a kindler, gentler means of asserting the Lord's dominance.

And in historical perspective, I would agree that these were great steps forward. But I'm not sure I understand how they are still helpful today.

Is it possible to be more specific about the aspect of Abrahamic faith that is essential for society to function morally? I feel on the contrary, that paying homage to any of these ancient religions in any form, serves only to enable the worst, most reactionary and fundamentalist elements.

There are many Christians who find the infiltration of sexual deviants into the church a disgrace. But I must ask you the following ... what other organized religion condones disgusting rituals such as metzitzah b'peh?

Perhaps we have unwittingly triggered a Catholic vs. Protestant dialectic here. Within the Catholic church, it doesn't matter much what "many Christians" think, since the institution is operated hierarchically, and the Pope and the bishops, while not exactly making child abuse an officially sanctioned practice, have virtually "condoned" it by virtue of the extremely limited steps taken against it. Protestants have generally allowed the clergy access to typical heterosexual mating strategies, which I see as another big historical step forward.

I'm not a fan of circumcision in general, but in the context of the ancient world, it was an improvement over castration. As to metzitzah b'peh: saliva has antiseptic properties and enzymes that promote healing, so in that ancient context, it probably often saved the lives of infants who couldn't lick their own wounds. With modern medical technology, it does seem outmoded -- but I think your insinuation that pedophilia is the primary motive, is is unfair even today.

And in general I think it's counter-productive to put much effort into proving that one version of Abrahamic fundamentalism is much better or worse than another.

I don't look for them in Wikipedia (sorry Jerry but your constant referencing of that site as a source of truth is laughable).

Sorry if I'm giving the impression that I would view it as a source of "Truth". It is, however, a convenient way to get an overview of most any topic, albeit slanted towards a "mainstream" perspective.

 

[Richard Stanley]

Canadian Jerk Judge Protects Christians who kill their Child with Maple Syrup

The jury convicted the parents, but the Jerke let them off easy, even letting the wife attend church.

The maximum penalty for failing to provide the necessaries of life is five years in prison. Justice Rodney Jerke did not set a sentencing date. That’s to be decided at a court appearance on June 13. The Stephans were not taken into custody.

“This case is not yet over, but a big chapter has come to a close,” Jerke said. He noted that you only had to look at the faces of the jurors to tell “this was a difficult case.”

Crown prosecutor Lisa Weich said the charge of failing to provide the necessaries of life ensures that people who cannot care for themselves receive the minimal standard of care expected by society. “They definitely, definitely loved their son but as stated in our closing arguments, unfortunately sometimes love just isn’t enough,” Weich said outside court. “Parents still have to follow a standard of care as set by criminal law.”

Did you catch that? The maximum sentence was 5 years in prison. The actual sentence, which came down this week, wasn’t even close to that. A father has been sentenced to four months in jail and his wife to three months of house arrest after being found guilty of failing to provide the necessaries of life for their 19-month-old son, who died from bacterial meningitis.

…

Justice Rodney Jerke said the Stephans were caring parents and neither intended to put the boy’s life at risk. So their well-intentioned homicidal ignorance resulted in a more lenient sentence. By the way, Collet’s “house arrest” isn’t even that. She’s allowed to leave the house to go to church.
http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friend...with-maple-syrup-get-super-lenient-sentences/​

I only use real maple syrup from Vermont.

 

[Collectivist]

As the Trump administration enters the second week of rule, I think it is becoming obvious that Donald was not just talking but acting on his promises to reform the nation.

The Zionists are now in somewhat of a panic as their plans to destabilize western countries and ethnically cleanse the native people from their lands in the name of "equality" and "human rights" is being exposed for what it truly is. Of course there will be the impressionable PC youth who will be used as useful idiots to perpetuate the Zionist agenda and lies, as Yuri Bezmenov accurately described but with time, even these idiots will become marginalized (hopefully) as criminals such as Soros and his ilk will be held responsible for the destructive riots they finance.

Trump's recent moves include banning citizens from certain nations from entering the US. The propagandists will of course use this as evidence he is a racist but the reality is Trump MUST do this to prevent the carnage now taking place in Europe.Just take a look at what awaits the US if it does not follow through with its tough stance on immigration and yes, the wall which should be built.

The actors on both sides of this divide have been carefully molded by Zionist supremacists to divide and conquer the US from within. Unfortunately, Trump understands that the situation is dire and that his actions must be swift and decisive because the globalists will fight him tooth and nail on the the issue of immigration.

So far so good Donald, but one week is not enough to prove to us that you are truly sincere in fighting the globalist threat but as I have said in the past, I will judge him by his actions, not words.

 

[Richard Stanley]

So Agent Orange is just screwing the Christian Zionists like the Bushes and the others did? If so, what are all those Zionists doing in his administration. Especially Bannon and Pompeo? And his Jewish daughter and son-in-law?

I thought the 9/11 attackers came from Saudia Arabia as well as Yemen? Why not Egypt as well? It's because he has business interests in those countries, which he should be impeached for.

The seven nations targeted for new visitation restrictions by President Donald Trump on Friday all have something in common: They are places he does not appear to have any business interests.

The executive order he signed Friday bars all entry for the next 90 days by travelers from Syria, Iran, Iraq, Yemen, Sudan, Somalia and Libya. Excluded from the lists are several majority-Muslim nations where the Trump Organization is active and which in some cases have also faced troublesome issues with terrorism.

According to the text of the order, the restriction applies to countries that have already been excluded from programs allowing people to travel to the United States without a visa because of concerns over terrorism. Hewing closely to nations already named as terrorism concerns elsewhere in law might have allowed the White House to avoid angering some more powerful and wealthy majority Muslim allies, such as Egypt. ...
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/...immigration-conflicts-20170128-story,amp.html
​

Does Agent Orange inspire you to give up on hunting child abusers, given his low moral record? He stated on the air that he would like to date his daughter. Would you like to date your daughter? He knowingly walked into a dressing room full of naked teenage girls. Would you like to do so, because it was "your capitalist right". Or are you able to compartmentalize?

Isn't the Christian religious corpus essentially globalist, if not downright Zionist (Revelation 14)? Maybe you don't really understand what's going on? Or worse, maybe you do?

Agent Orange said nothing when the Israelis announced more housing construction in the West Bank. He's talking about moving the American embassy to Jerusalem. Maybe he's doing all this because this will precipitate the military conflict that he and his Jesuit staff want. As I have posted elsewhere, his personal moral opposition to 'Christ' is all to distract the focus from his and his puppeteers real aims. He is the Zionist's apocalyptic Trojan wHorse, and you just let him in the gates to Troy.

​

 

[Collectivist]

Let's not forget his refusal to release his income tax ... Sooner or later, the triggered liberal snowflakes will realize it isn't about Trump but a movement towards anti-globalism and the protection of people's nations

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...ction-filled-anti-refugee-video-10507592.html

 

[Richard Stanley]

Well, it appears that we agree on one thing, at least. And that thing is that all this is about globalism versus nationalism.

Actually, you can find lot's of 'liberal' MSM discussion about globalism versus nationalism (besides that of the progressives or Progressives). Your common hangup about liberals versus conservatives prevents you from seeing your own internal contradictions. This is what allowed the oh so Christian Germans to be pulled under the Nazi's sway, and they paid a heavy price.

Don't worry, the Christian canon asserts that there will indeed be 'nations' at the end. They will all answer to one authority. And the cronies will prevail. But, only because the nationalists rally behind faux populists, false messiahs. That's what the Jewish nationalists did vis-a-vis the Maccabees. The Maccabees were really Hellenists. Thanks to your Alexander.

 

[Richard Stanley]

Have you been sealed? A Zionist secret society? From the last book of the Christian Bible:

1And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Sion, and with him an hundred forty and four thousand, having his Father's name written in their foreheads. 2And I heard a voice from heaven, as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of a great thunder: and I heard the voice of harpers harping with their harps: 3And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth. 4These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb. 5And in their mouth was found no guile: for they are without fault before the throne of God. (Revelation 14)​

4And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel.

5Of the tribe of Juda were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Reuben were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Gad were sealed twelve thousand. 6Of the tribe of Aser were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Nepthalim were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Manasses were sealed twelve thousand. 7Of the tribe of Simeon were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Levi were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Issachar were sealed twelve thousand. 8Of the tribe of Zabulon were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Joseph were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Benjamin were sealed twelve thousand. (Revelation 7)​

 

[Collectivist]

Nationalism means different things to different people. The knee-jerk reaction is to associate it with Nazi Germany, who were indeed nationalist but so too were the founding fathers who warned against foreign entanglements.

Huge difference

It remains to be seen which of the two interpretations of nationalism the current president abides by. His strong anti-refugee views, to me, is a practical one given the horrendous migrant crisis sweeping Europe. I believe the founding fathers, under similar circumstances, would have adopted a similar agenda to save the Republic.

Migrants are being used as a weapon, by the globalists, to usher in revolution and instability across all western countries. Those who cannot see this obvious fact should seriously research this deeper. Trump needs to eliminate the threat through proper vetting of immigrants and ignore the media outcry that his actions are 'un-american'.

As for Trump, I think many people under-estimate him on so many levels and although I could be wrong about him, he might be looking to complete the job JFK was unable to finish. To me, if he challenges the Federal Reserve and has plans to back the US currency to gold and silver after a currency crisis, he will definitely have my attention.

 

[Richard Stanley]

Migrants are being used as a weapon, by the globalists, to usher in revolution and instability across all western countries. Those who cannot see this obvious fact should seriously research this deeper. Trump needs to eliminate the threat through proper vetting of immigrants and ignore the media outcry that his actions are 'un-american'.

Well, I agree with you again ... that migrants are being used as a weapon, by the globalists. How about that?

The problem for you and your millions of followers is that this is the very strategy and tactic that was used to populate the New World. Because I know in advance, by experience with others like you, that you will compartmentalize history. Thus, seeing yourself as the proper Chosen People (instead of the Jews), that you have the Postmodernist dispensation to ignore anything outside the Box that you want to, that you find inconvenient to your perceived cause. Therefore, you can ignore the plight of the American indigenous people, because they don't matter. Only your civilized selves are capable of determining which children should be raped, killed, and groped versus others.

500 years ago, instead of the Muslims being whipped into a frenzy and being forced to flee, it was the common people of Europe (the ancestors of those you now profess to care so much about) who decided they needed to flee Europe because of the 'other' crazy Christians, whichever side they were on.

From my perspective, my America, the one that I grew up in, disappeared long before Trump. This is because the descendants of the same assholes that created the migration 'problem' 500 years ago, decided (programmatically) to ecumenically heal (and forget) the past religious wounds. Back in the day, my day, Catholics were considered moral degenerate scum. They were drunkard, adulterers who sacrificed their children to child raping priests. They did the latter because they were ashamed that the same thing had happened to them.

Now, after Vatican II ecumenicism and the degeneracy campaign that Joe Atwill rails about, occurring at the very same time, just who runs this country now Collectivist? All branches of the government (right or left) are controlled by Jesuit influenced Catholics, the (right and left) MSM talking heads, and the alt-right agit-prop machine. Probably much of the wacko extreme left as well.

I understand that this is the realpolitik, but you, like a programmed robot, want to convince us that your delusions are reality. That is, when you're not out protecting children with your neoNazi media materials.

Unlike you, I know that Trump will not touch the Fed. The only thing that would convince me that he is not a globalist is him actually returning all the Catholics to their country of origin. Even better, all the Christians. Trump would not have a conundrum here, because he is not a Christian, just a degenerate.

You are a globalist and don't know it.

 

[Jerry Russell]

From my perspective, my America, the one that I grew up in, disappeared long before Trump. This is because the descendants of the same assholes that created the migration 'problem' 500 years ago, decided (programmatically) to ecumenically heal (and forget) the past religious wounds. Back in the day, my day, Catholics were considered moral degenerate scum.

Isn't this just another version of the "degeneracy" scenario? You're asking us to envision some golden age that we've degenerated from, and picturing a way of life that is being lost?

You're asking us to picture "my America" as one where "mainstream Protestants" anchored the country, and prevented the "degenerate scum" Catholics from emerging from whatever ghettos they were captured in? But, weren't those same mainstream Protestants among the leaders in the ecumenical movement?

For that matter, weren't at least some Protestant leaders ~500 years ago, complicit with the Catholics in creating those religious schisms? Didn't Protestant leaders benefit from colonialism? Minor doctrinal quibbles aside, how has Protestantism ever been anything other than a form of crypto-Catholicism?

To the extent that the Jewish elite can even be distinguished from the Catholic Church and the Jesuits, whether on the basis of genetics or creed -- isn't your analysis downplaying the importance of the Jewish element?

 

[Richard Stanley]

Isn't this just another version of the "degeneracy" scenario? You're asking us to envision some golden age that we've degenerated from, and picturing a way of life that is being lost?

I'm not defending "My Lost America" Jerry, but I'm mocking Collectivist's, the populists', and the race nationalists' myopic POV. But, OK, if we have to roll back the clock, then it certainly does indeed need to be so that I can rightfully be at the top of the chimpig pile. I'm sure that Collectivist would agree with me here, even as he is riding his boat back to Greece. We don't need no stinking lazy Mediterranean types here.

Collectivist is a Liberal, who thinks that he and his family has some Right to come sponge off of us decent volk. BS!!!

You're asking us to picture "my America" as one where "mainstream Protestants" anchored the country, and prevented the "degenerate scum" Catholics from emerging from whatever ghettos they were captured in? But, weren't those same mainstream Protestants among the leaders in the ecumenical movement?

Two wrongs don't make a right, Jerry. I hope you're not going to bring up that George Washington slept in Catholic mansions. Don't go there Jerry.

For that matter, weren't at least some Protestant leaders ~500 years ago, complicit with the Catholics in creating those religious schisms? Didn't Protestant leaders benefit from colonialism? Minor doctrinal quibbles aside, how has Protestantism ever been anything other than a form of crypto-Catholicism?

How dare you!!!

To the extent that the Jewish elite can even be distinguished from the Catholic Church and the Jesuits, whether on the basis of genetics or creed -- isn't your analysis downplaying the importance of the Jewish element?

How so? By bringing up that the last book of the Christian Bible is Zionist and says that 12K each, of Judah, Benjamin, and Levi are amongst the 144K celibate male Hebrews in the secret society of the religion that Collectivist says does wonderful things? I mean, if it wasn't for these Egyptian religions he'd still be back in Greece, wondering about how his people got there from Egypt.

Besides, when Collectivist's conservative anarchist (oxymoronic) nations of 'peoples' take back control from the ZOG, they'll need people like Collectivist to fight off their neighbors, all sooner or later looking for their lebensraum, given that birth control will be off the menu. They'll still be subject to the whims of megalomaniac leaders, whether organic or staged.

The elites have understood the nationalist / globalist dynamic for a long, long time, going back to at least that phony red-headed Greek, Alexander. And they have understood how to play the populists, by such as providing them with their own trumpeting stooges, faux populists. In this case the current stooge is such an extreme caricature, that they are mocking us all, like they did on 9/11.

Unfortunately Collectivist does not want to take the time to learn what our position is, rather he superficially thinks that he understands better that there is some hope left in the Republic. It was all rigged from the beginning. Or he's just a low level actor, dutifully carrying someone else's water. Just reading the talking points, unable to to engage beyond incoherently resorting to irrelevant labels. Our founding fathers were 'liberals', ... just ignore that Biblically justified slave business though.

When the promised Biblical nations of peoples come about, you can be certain that there will be many 'peoples' that will yet be serfing the others. And all will answer to one, as this is the conservative agenda.

 

[Marcilla Smith]

Ok, but even if the world is controlled by the Catholic Conspiracy, and the Catholic Conspiracy is secretly run by the Jesuit Conspiracy, and the Jesuit Conspiracy is secretly run by the Jewish Conspiracy, and the Jewish Conspiracy by the Kabbalist Conspiracy, and them by the Ephraimian Conspiracy, David Icke still says they're all subservient to the Reptillian Conspiracy, and science still says that even one's shiniest tin foil chapeau won't save them from the mind control techniques of the Toxoplasma Gondiian Conspiracy!