Seeker

Active Member
Ellis discusses the Nazarene association with castration and bloody self-flagellation.
Ewwww!!!!! Please forgive me for publicly venting, but I cannot imagine anyone being stone cold sober and wanting to do this to themselves, were they on drugs? Seriously, I never really thought that Jesus asked his disciples to become eunuchs, he was just comparing the ways men became eunuchs, without commanding anyone that they had to be that way, so take it or leave it, thus:

Matthew 19:12 For there are some eunuchs, which were so born from their mother's womb: and there are some eunuchs, which were made eunuchs of men: and there be eunuchs, which have made themselves eunuchs for the kingdom of heaven's sake. He that is able to receive it, let him receive it.
 

Richard Stanley

Administrator
It might be considered that the pro-Roman NT and such as Hippolytus are proclaiming a black propaganda against the Nazarenes in slyly asserting this association.

On the other hand, those Templar knights, who seem from the same traditions, were pretty extreme. Beyond their celibacy, they could not bath or change their underwear.

In any case, here's what pseudo-Lucian said about the Galli, of which the Shiites seem to be repeating except for the neutering:

On appointed days, the crowd assembles at the sanctuary while many Galli and the holy men whom I have mentioned perform the rites. They cut their arms and beat one another on the back. Many stand about them playing flutes, while many others beat drums. Still others sing inspired and sacred songs … On those days men become Galli. For while the rest are playing flutes and performing the rites, a frenzy comes upon many … (he) throws off his clothes, rushes to the center with a great shout and takes up a sword, which I believe has stood there for this purpose for many years. He grabs it and immediately castrates himself. Then he rushes through the city holding his testicles in his hands. He takes female clothing and women’s adornment from whatever house he throws these testicles into. (pseudo-Lucian, De Dea Syria 50-53.)

I'll bet this was just a way to dissuade women from showing off their expensive best gear in public. :rolleyes:
 
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There does not appear to be clearcut evidence of eunuchs in the Egyptian courts. I found a good article about it here.

One suggestion is that castration may have been practiced by the cult of Seth. However, you can't miss that the various 'deformities' we see in representations of Akhenaton are the same as for eunuchs -- wide hips, feminine chest, large belly, small head, spindly legs, etc.
 

Richard Stanley

Administrator
From your just prior link:

"If they want to portray a male who commits the crime of mutilating himself, they draw a beaver: because the latter, when chased (by hunters), tears off its own testicles and leaves them behind as prey"5.

Now we know where the cryptic use of the term 'beaver' originates. Imagine if Trump had instead said: "You can just grab them by their beavers." The great white hunters, Don Jr. and Eric, would have understood bigly, while our shallow minds remain in the gutter just the same.

From a different page on that site:

The notion of gender complexity is deeply rooted in ancient Egyptian culture. In the Egyptian story of the creation of the gods, the first god is male and female, and its name is Atum. Through asexual reproduction, Atum creates two other gods, Shu and Tefnut. These two in turn produce another pair, Geb and Nut. Finally, Geb and Nut, the earth and the sky, combine and produce the two pairs of Isis and Osiris, and Seth and Nephthys. In the stories of these archetypal beings, Isis exemplifies the reproductive female, Osiris the reproductive male, Seth the nonreproductive eunuch, and Nephthys the unmarried virgin (lesbian).

Ellis had gone on from castration etc. to discuss that the Biblical Adam seems to be a restatement of the hermaphroditic Atum. Separately, in some traditions Jesus is one remanifestation on Earth of Adam.

One suggestion is that castration may have been practiced by the cult of Seth. However, you can't miss that the various 'deformities' we see in representations of Akhenaton are the same as for eunuchs -- wide hips, feminine chest, large belly, small head, spindly legs, etc.
Yes, there has been much speculation about the depictions of Akhenaton, one that he must have had Marfan's Syndrome. In any case, the depictions seem to accentuate such characteristics, as if to caricaturize them. And if so, he of course, approved of such depictions. Such, begs the question, id he was castrated at some point, was whether or not he fathered the children. There already are assertions that Tut was not his boy.

Incidentally, prior to reading Charles post, I had just finished watching a video discussing, among other things, the depiction of chopped off hands and tallywhackers at the temple of Ramesses III. I am going to post on this video on a different thread in the context of precessional Climate Change and the consequent end of Egyptian greatness (leading to the collapse of the Late Bronze Age and the elites' shift to the north in power).

Tallywhackers - This is how the tally of enemy whackers was kept. :eek:
 
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Richard Stanley

Administrator
Speaking of somewhat related sexual practices, and the claimed relationship of such as Magdalene (or Mary?) to Orange, and then on through the House of Orange:

Thirty canons (or 'regulations') were agreed upon and subscribed to, dealing with extreme unction, the Permission of penance, the right of sanctuary; recommending caution to bishops in the ordination of foreign clergy, the consecration of churches outside of their own jurisdictions; imposing limitations on the administration of ecclesiastical rites to those who were in any way defective, either in body or mind; and emphasizing the duty of celibacy for those belonging to the clerical state, especially deacons and widows, with specific reference to canon viii. of the Synod of Turin (AD 401).
The exact interpretation of some of the canons (ii., iii., xvii.) is debated. Canon iv. is alleged to be in conflict with a decretal of Pope Siricius; and ii. and xviii. betray an inclination to resist the introduction of Roman customs. Canon XVI determines that a person who has been possessed by a demon cannot be ordained, and if they have been ordained, they must be deposed. Canon XXVI requires that married men must not be ordained deacons until they have sworn chastity. Canon XXVII requires that if an ordained deacon should have sex with his wife, then he should be deposed. These canons were confirmed at the Synods of Arles about 443.
Also:​
Some have drawn a link between Gaul and the region of Galilee, via such as settled colonies of Roman veterans. Orange, of course, is in Gaul. But now we have this business with the castrated Galli. Coincidence?

Roman priests would not become subject to celibacy for centuries after this.

A second council was held at Orange in 529, over important theological matters predating issues later raised during the Reformation. At this time Orange was part of the Ostrogoth empire, mostly Arian Xians who were on peaceful terms with the trinitarian Roman Church.

There is one school of thought, expressed by Saussy, that the post-collapse period of the Western Roman empire was a series of machinations designed to eliminate unitarian Arianism, where Jesus is generally considered just a man (like perhaps a particular king?).

I suppose the following might be one example (see red text):

It is in his foreign policy rather than domestic affairs that Theodoric appeared and acted as an independent ruler. By means of marriage alliances, he sought to establish a central position among the barbarian states of the West. As Jordanes states: "...there was no race left in the western realms which Theodoric had not befriended or brought into subjection during his lifetime."[20] This was in part meant as a defensive measure, and in part as a counterbalance to the influence of the Empire. His daughters were wedded to the Visigothic king Alaric II and the Burgundian prince Sigismund,[21] his sister Amalfrida married the Vandal king Thrasamund,[22] while he himself married Audofleda, sister of the Frankish king Clovis I.[23]
...​
The peace with the Vandals, secured in 500 with the marriage alliance with Thrasamund, and their common interests as Arian powers against Constantinople, collapsed after Thrasamund's death in 523. His successor Hilderic showed favour to the Nicaean Christians, and when Amalfrida protested, he had her and her entourage murdered. Theodoric was preparing an expedition against him when he died.[25]
 
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