From Cleopatra to Christ

[Richard Stanley]

That's not framing an "All-Seeing Eye", is it?

It sure looks like an "all-seeing eye" to me.

 

[Seeker]

Wow, and to think I was just talking about the Internet possibly being the modern version of the "All-Seeing Eye", this is amazing, from almost 2000 years ago! How far did Ralph Ellis take this symbolism, if indeed he did?

 

[Richard Stanley]

Ralph missed this, it seems.

Also, please note my addition (in green) to the following post:

https://postflaviana.org/community/index.php?threads/from-cleopatra-to-christ.2515/post-13150

 

[Richard Stanley]

Barbarians?

Going back to Josephus’ introduction to his Jewish War, the reason for Josephus stating that the Greeks were ignorant about the Jewish Revolt while the barbarians and Adiabene (the Edessans) knew all about it, was not simply due to the fact that the Adiabene-Edessa fomented the war in the first place. It is also because this introduction is the preface to the Greek edition of Jewish War, and Josephus states that he had previously sent Aramaic (Syriac) copies of this same book to the: ‘Parthians, Babylonians, those beyond the Euphrates with the Adiabene’. This is why Josephus says that these people knew of the Jewish War ‘by my means’ - meaning that the Edessans knew about his highly biased version of the Jewish Revolt. ​

​

The ‘Parthians and Babylonians’ mentioned here are the Babylonian Jews of Edessa, the exiled [Egypto-Jews - rs] Jews from Parthia who founded Edessa in AD 4. In other words, these are the family of Queen Ourania, who then became known as the Abgarid monarchy of Edessa. These were also the same clans who founded the Fourth Sect Nazarenes, and who were blamed by Josephus for starting the Jewish Revolt. Josephus’ books were also sent to ‘those beyond the Euphrates with the Adiabene’, which is a clear reference to the people of Edessa, who did indeed live to the east of the Euphrates. Again, Adiabene is a reference here to Edessa and the Abgarid royal family. ​

​

Josephus also calls these same people the Upper Barbarians. He does so not simply to denigrate them before his Roman audience as being foreigners who ‘stammered’ in a strange and incomprehensible language, which is the popular meaning of the Greek barbaros βαρβαρος, but rather because of their appearance. Josephus could hardly be mocking the Edessans for being foreign, as he was related to them as we shall see later. And neither could he mock them for speaking a strange language, as the Edessans spoke Aramaic - Josephus’ own mother-tongue (which is why Josephus wrote the first copies of Jewish War in Aramaic). Contrary to common perception, this denigration was actually based upon the Latin term barbar, which means ‘beard’ and from which we derive the English ‘barber’. ​

​

The royal family of Abgarus and Helena of Edessa-Adiabene, and all of the Nazarene sect, were long-haired and bearded; while Josephus and the Romans were conspicuously clean-shaven. And so the mention of Upper Barbarians (ανω βαρβαρος - Northern Barbarians or perhaps Inland Barbarians) would have been an obvious yet coded reference to the Edessan royal family. Thus Saul-Josephus could delight in mocking both the Nazarene and the Adiabene-Edessans as being long-haired and bearded ‘barbarians’, while he and his Roman compatriots bore the clean-shaven hallmarks of Roman civilisation.​

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Ellis, Ralph. Jesus, King of Edessa (The King Jesus Trilogy Book 3) (Kindle Locations 3112-3132). Edfu Books. Kindle Edition.​

Ellis goes on from here to discuss that Josephus is delighting in making propagandic history, including his changing of the name of Edessa to Adiabene, but seems to be ignoring the implications of the fact of the later Severan (Syrian) Dynasty of emperors, and that I'm sure that the Edessans had access to their own parchments and quills. Maybe Ellis will come to a more nuanced explanation here.

 

[Jerry Russell]

The link for the pic has a lot of Palmyran stone reliefs shown as being in Russia. I just had another YouTube recommendation where it discussed the Russians' heavy religious interest in places like Palmyra, going much further than their more secular geopolitical interests in Syria today.

I'm reminded that Anatoly Fomenko is fascinated with the suburb of Istanbul known as Beykos. This is the location of a monument to the grave of the "Prophet Yusha". According to the "official story" these days: Islamic tradition has it that this is the tomb of Joshua, successor to Moses. The grave is 17 meters long, leading to speculation that perhaps Joshua was a giant.

But according to Fomenko, the locals believed that Yusha was Jesus, and that Beykos was the Biblical Golgotha. (Of course, that also involves the equation that Istanbul was Biblical Jerusalem.)

 

[Seeker]

Contrary to common perception, this denigration was actually based upon the Latin term barbar, which means ‘beard’ and from which we derive the English ‘barber’.

I was wondering if you could tie "English Jesus" into this. Another form of this word is "Berber", i.e., North African, and if Jesus was indeed the actual son of "Panthera" King Ptolemy of Mauretania, then his male line ancestry would be Berber, with him being "grafted" onto the royal Edessa-Adiabene family and becoming a "barbarian" Nazarene, just as the later Severan (Syrian) royal family was grafted onto the royal line of Roman Emperor Septimius Severus, the original founder of the Severan dynasty, through his sister-in-law. Emperor Septimius Severus was another male line Berber with wealthy and aristocratic Italian ancestry from his mother, who was campaigning in Britain for the last three years of his life and passed away at York. His grandnephew, Roman Emperor Elagabalus, had a Deva Victrix renovation undertaken, so is it possible that the Severan dynasty had a blood connection with Jesus and England? Legio XX Valeria Victrix, stationed at Deva Victrix at the time Jesus is supposed to have been there, is believed to have had some North Africans in its ranks. For some more remarkable photos of this fortress and its artifacts, go to http://jjwargames.blogspot.com/, scroll down on the right to "Labels", click on "Chester 2018", and then on that page scroll down a little bit to "Diva Victrix-Roman Chester", Parts One and Two. The tombstone artifact photo I found was near the bottom of Part Two, and you will also see other symbolism there.

 

[Richard Stanley]

I thought about mentioning the Berber association with the word barbarian, but was too lazy I guess. The Berbers are also interesting as to their strange associations with such as the Basque people, and possibly the Cro-Magnons. There are theories that link them to the Atlantis legend.

Here are the direct links to the Deva Victrix Fortress pages:
http://jjwargames.blogspot.com/2018/08/deva-vitrix-roman-chester-part-one.html
http://jjwargames.blogspot.com/2018/08/deva-victrix-roman-chester-part-two.html

Here's the lead pipe from the Elliptical Building having Emperor Vespasian's name on it:

 

[Seeker]

The Berbers are also interesting as to their strange associations with such as the Basque people, and possibly the Cro-Magnons. There are theories that link them to the Atlantis legend

This is also very interesting to me personally, as I recently had received preliminary Y chromosome results showing my ancient male line to be Berber, with a recent common ancestor from about the time of the destruction of Carthage by the Romans. As far as DNA goes, the conventional wisdom is that the Berbers were always North African, with a renegade theory that instead they were originally Phoenician and came to North Africa to found Carthage. This is rare DNA for England, where my documented ancestry begins. I was aware of possible Iberian ancestry, as Carthage and then Rome held that province, along with North Africa, but have not heard of the connections that you have just mentioned, i.e. Basques, Cro-Magnons, and Atlantis, obviously this is not a part of "mainstream" research. Are there links to these theories, especially Atlantis?

 

[Richard Stanley]

https://duckduckgo.com/?q=Berbers+Basques+Cro-Magnons&t=ffsb&atb=v173-1&ia=web
https://duckduckgo.com/?q=berbers+atlantis&t=ffsb&atb=v173-1&ia=web

 

[Seeker]

Thank You So Much Richard, I only have the mainstream genetic explanation for my preliminary DNA results so far from the testing company, and, as I stated, I was told that it was rare for England in my documented ancestral area. I am just going by memory from years ago, it didn't mean anything personally to me at the time, but I remember reading that rh negative people (if it means this also) were descended from aliens, "Jesus", or royalty, or maybe all three because it was supposed to be unique. Because of my male line DNA from North Africa many thousands of years ago, besides "Jesus"(?), it has been proven by DNA researchers that I am also "related" to Adolf Hitler, Albert Einstein, Napoleon Bonaparte, and probably Giuseppe Garibaldi, who also have that ancient ancestry, because their relatives were tested for their DNA origins. Whether it is true, propaganda, or just an imaginative fantasy, I have difficulty thinking of myself as an "Atlantean Aryan" !!!

 

[Charles Watkins]

There is speculation that Rh negative blood originated with Neanderthals or even Denisovans.

 

[Seeker]

Berber King Juba II of Mauretania, father of "Panthera" Ptolemy of Mauretania, who may have been the father of "Jesus", claimed to be descended from the Berber hero/demigod Sufax, the son of Heracles/Hercules. There was also a Heracles/Hercules Libycus (conquered the Libyans, or Berbers) who it was claimed was stolen by the Greeks, who in turn was appropriated from them by the Romans. Hercules, in turn, was descended maternally from Danaus, son of Belus, King of Egypt, whose parents were Poseidon (a Berber god also taken by the Greeks, and, according to Plato, the chief God of Atlantis and the father of Atlas, first King of Atlantis and also the King of Mauretania [Berber], who gave his name to the Atlas Mountains of Berber North Africa) and Libya ( who became a Berber goddess). Danaus was the King of Libya (Berbers) and the father of the fifty Danaides, who fled to Greece with his daughters, and appears to me to be a key figure also in Postflaviana as Dan of the Sea Peoples, if I understand this correctly so far. In my preliminary reading about the Berbers, it looks as though they have been vastly underrated and ignored by historians and researchers (was this intentional?), in favor of the more famous empires that occupied North Africa throughout the centuries, but historically at one time there were even Berbers ruling as Pharaohs of Egypt.

 

[Seeker]

The more that I read about the Berbers, the more that I see connections that are not commented on by mainstream historians. Perhaps the greatest ancient Berber god was Ammon, with early depictions of rams (related possibly to an early form of his cult) across North Africa dated 9600-7500 BC. He was united with the Phoenician god Baal due to Libyan influence, and the Greeks identified their supreme god Zeus with him. Even Alexander the Great decided to be declared the son of Zeus in the Siwan temple by the Libyan (Berber) priests of Ammon, so in a way he is an "honorary" Berber!
The son of Ammon, in the ancient Berber religion, was the war god Gurzil, personified as a magical bull (taurus), whom was taken to their battles.
As I have mentioned earlier, in connection with "Jesus", we have Simon of Cyrene (North African) carrying his cross and perhaps substituting for him at his crucifixion, could this also be a veiled allegory of the hidden birth of Jesus to Panthera Ptolemy of Mauretania, and if Jesus was really in Chester later on guarded by the Legio XX Valeria Victrix, were some of these soldiers Berber as well? The Berbers may be overlooked, but nevertheless are intriguing, not least because of their close association with ancient Egypt, even having two royal dynasties at its head at one period.

 

[Seeker]

Of course, if Danaus son of Belus is the same as the Old Testament Dan son of Jacob/Israel, with Dan described as a "serpent" and tempted by "Belial" (Belus?), synonyms for the Devil, this would also make Samson, whom I notice is another favorite Postflaviana character, a male line "Berber". Early Christian writers believed that the Antichrist would come from the tribe of Dan, and, in Revelation 7:4-8, the tribe of Dan is omitted from the 12 tribes of the 144,000 sealed Israelites, an indication that Dan was not really one of them?

 

[Richard Stanley]

Early Christian writers believed that the Antichrist would come from the tribe of Dan, and, in Revelation 7:4-8, the tribe of Dan is omitted from the 12 tribes of the 144,000 sealed Israelites, an indication that Dan was not really one of them?

I had not noticed that Dan had been omitted. I made the following post on my apocalyptic thread: https://postflaviana.org/community/index.php?threads/part-1-the-futurist-apocalypse-is-now.2022/post-13180

Do you have any references for the early claims of the Antichrist coming from Dan?

 

[Seeker]

Iranaeus, in his "Against Heresies", Book V, Chapter XXX, paragraph 2, specifically states "666" (Antichrist and the Abomination of Desolation)) will come from the tribe of Dan, using Jeremiah 8:16 as his source, and he also affirms that "This, too, is the reason that this tribe is not reckoned in the Apocalypse along with those which are saved."

 

[Seeker]

Also see Hippolytus, "On Christ and Antichrist", 14-15, where, besides mentioning the tribe of Dan, he states that "the prophecy had its PARTIAL FULFILMENT in SAMSON, but its COMPLETE FULFILMENT is reserved for ANTICHRIST."
http://www.newadvent.org/fathers/0103530.htm "Against Heresies"
http://www.newadvent.org/fathers/0516.htm "On Christ and Antichrist"

 

[Seeker]

Dan was also one of the "handmaid" children of Jacob, not begotten by one of his "wives", could this too indicate that not all of these twelve tribes were actually of Israelite origin? Note that in the beginning, after the Conquest, Joshua allocated to the tribe of Dan land in the west central area of Israel, but, eventually, the Dan tribe migrated to the NE of his full "brother" Naphtali, becoming the northernmost tribe of Israel, at the northern and eastern borders of Canaan. Dan thus became the most "foreign" of the tribes, geographically speaking, at any rate. "All Israel, from Dan to Beersheba", i.e., from North to South, is a common Biblical phrase. According to author Pnina Galpaz-Feller in "Samson: The Hero and the Man: The Story of Samson (Judges 13-16)", pp. 278-82, there is an almost absolute parallel between the Biblical story of Samson and legends of the Denyen tribes, whom the Egyptians called "SEA PEOPLES". Would this mean Denyen=Danaus=Dan, intriguing!

 

[Seeker]

I certainly do not consider myself a prophet, but Moses, who was, in Deuteronomy 33:22, said that Dan would leap forth like a young lion from Bashan. Could this mean that the Antichrist would spring out of the Golan Heights (Biblical Bashan), captured from Syria by Israel during the 1967 Six-Day War? Mount Hermon, also known as Ba'al Hermon, Sirion, and SION, is also in this vicinity, and quite possibly the "Transfiguration" took place here, with Jesus, Elijah, and MOSES, because Caesarea Philippi was at the base of it, and Jesus and his disciples were in this area. This is where Peter famously made his "confession" to Jesus, and Jesus, in turn, supposedly made Peter the "Pope" of the Roman Catholic Church. So, the Antichrist (Dan) is "transfigured"( to an angel of light) as a Christ figure, perhaps becoming Pope (St. Peter) of Rome? The city of Dan was also near Mt. Hermon, and housed a sanctuary of household gods, an ephod, and an idol, in the time of the Judges, as opposed to the sanctuary at Shiloh, and later a golden calf by King Jeroboam, who perhaps meant it to compete with the sanctuary of Solomon's Temple at Jerusalem. All of this might add up to a final controlled Apocalyptic opposition, light vs. darkness, white and black, ying and yang, etc., who knows?

 

[Richard Stanley]

Now that such as the Nazarite Samson is linked even better to a transition of the ages, as is the 'Nazarene' Jesus, a another common thread can be seen emerging, including with today, namely that of global commerce.

Jesus is made to say "render unto Caesar", while the "mark of the Beast" is 666, without which a man may not engage in commerce. With such as Samson, we can see all of this as related to the collapse of the Late Bronze Age, and all these related societies collapsed as did the wide network of the global trade of the day.

And so today, we have this bizarre and incoherent Samson-like presence in the White House, launching the world into a trade war, while he tells his followers that he will save them, and they hang on every lying word.

And as we are debating today about Global Warming, the number 666 represents the physical Sun, as 888 represents the Sun's spirit --- as Iesous (from Fideler's Jesus Christ, Sun of God), a seeming restatement of Atenism IMO.