Richard Stanley

Well-Known Member
Part 1:

This thread can be seen as a complementary branch to my earlier From Chrest to Christ thread which further develops the notion that the word and appellation of 'chrest' is linked to the more famous title of 'Christ', as advanced by John Bartram. In that thread I discuss the relationship of Mithraism to Christianity (or Chrestianity per Bartram) based upon the thesis of Flavio Barbiero in his Secret Society of Moses. In this work he asserts that the extended family of Josephus (Maccabee) Flavius was at the foundations of the Roman reinterpretation of Persian Mithraism.

In this last claim I assert that they did so with the full cooperation and imprimatur of the Flavian and later imperial Romans. In fact, perhaps we should be considering that Bartram's 'Chrestianity' was Roman Mithraism, and all consistent with the Platonic and Pythagorean embedded within the Gospels as we know them today (see David Fideler's Jesus Christ, Sun of God). After all, and for among other reasons, the mithraeum underneath the Vatican has an inscription referring to an individual named Chrest, possibly the leader.

Importantly we see Josephus Flavius being discussed, who is key to understanding Joseph Atwill's treatment of the Gospels in his Caesar's Messiah. This in that, among other matters, he discusses how the works of Josephus are textually interwoven with the four gospels. In order to do this there had to be some literary 'magic' in the creation of a chronological time shift in the Biblical mission of Jesus. This allowed the retrodictive fabrication of the prophecy of Jesus to his disciples that the Jerusalem Temple would be destroyed in their 'generation', a common allusion to a period of 40 years. This then means that Titus Flavius was the Christ of the Second Coming, and the literal graft described in Romans 11, namely the Gentile branch onto the Judaic "Root of Jesse". But all of these terms have to be decrypted and thus this makes a hash out of common understandings. I have detailed how the word 'gentile' means nobility (the only people that kept track of their gens or 'genes') and in an earlier book (to what I'll discuss here) author Ralph Ellis has demonstrated that Jesse actually represents an historical pharaoh -- in the time attributed to King David and Solomon. In the OT, Jesse is David's father.

Another person making the same chronological shift claim in his books is Ellis, and again, he identifies Josephus Flavius at the center of the matters. Ellis approaches the subject from different angles than Atwill, and in doing so he makes a strong argument that Josephus is one and the same as the infamous Apostle Paul. The main criticism of this equation is from a chronological perspective. But he makes a strong argument that a young and precocious Josephus, yet still a Jewish 'man', could indeed have taken on Paul's early missions, especially accompanied by an older mentor.

But even wilder than Ellis' claim about Paul-Josephus is his claim that there was indeed at least one real historical person who became renamed and re-contextualized by Josephus (and his imperial literary team?) and that this person appears to be a descendant of both Julius Caesar and Cleopatra VII. Such a claim also builds a bridge to the claim of Francesco Carotta in his Jesus Was Caesar that elements of Julius' historical narrative were integrated into the gospel depictions of Jesus' Galilean campaign and highly specific details of the Passion Story. On first glance Carotta's claims about the parallels of Pollio's account of Julius' Civil War campaign against Pompey to the gospels seems to discount Atwill's parallel of the Flavian campaign in Galilee to the same gospel accounts. But then, where do we get the chronological details of the Jewish War? ... From one Josephus Flavius. And ... we do not have the original account of Pollio's to verify.

Ellis makes this claim about JC and Cleopatra is his 2006 book Cleopatra to Christ, and hence the title of this thread. I read CtC when it first came out and thought it seemed quite plausible. It was already fitting with my developing view on the 'actual' origins of Western Civilization. But not only was the claim so bold, but there was a lot to digest. Besides all the real names of (some well known) people and places there were all the aliases for the same. And then how to reconcile all these different new interpretations? For instance, how can Julius, Augustus, and Titus be Christ from some perspectives and Ellis's Izates be Christ from a different one? This is a common criticism, yet upon consideration its actually pretty simple to solve.

The answer is that Jesus Christ (of Nazareth) is a literary fabrication, becoming an avatar for not just those specific Romans, but for the entire line of emperors and subsequently the popes. After all, for the latter, the popes are the Vicars of Christ, the 'substitutes' or 'stand-ins' for Christ (until he makes his second Second Coming (Futurist) that is).

From my work on the Chrest to Christ thread and other discussions on the forum, I started to re-read CtC and Ellis' King Jesus again. In the passage of time and from all my other reading since, it was striking how much more of an impact these make to me. As such, while I hope to make various comments about aspects of what Ellis has done with the CtC thesis, I hope for right now to first discuss what stands out in terms of my subsequent efforts.

I have been talking a lot about the dialectic of nationalism versus globalism, and finally coming to the late realization that the two phenomenon form an inherent duality in the Western complex, beginning in narrative form with the geographical expansion of Abraham and his three religions (and their inherent Cultures).

In a seemingly different realm, that of economics and politics, I've developed on the forum that contemporary (l)ibertarianism is ironically a political movement whose veiled sponsor are the remnants of European royalty, such as the Hapsburgs and Bourbons. This from their association with the Mont Pelerin Society and onto such as the Austrian School of Economics. In the USA the libertarian Cato Society is heavily sponsored by traditionalist Catholics, the Koch brothers. Traditionalist Catholics are inherently supposed to be Monarchists, the exact opposite of the pseudo-anarchist libertarians. This also explains the 'deep' associations of 20th century fascists with what is really a Traditionalist Catholic agenda. Catholic as in .... Roman ... as in the underlying values of such as Augustus, the Prince of Peace.

The consequences of Randian economics are such, as they readily admit, are that, yes, as Jesus said: "the poor will always be among us", because at a minimum they are lazy and/or they are not quite so worthy as others (note the new Prosperity Gospel). In such an unrestrained system the (unpreventably corrupt) rich will generally get richer and the poor will get poorer. Politics, such as it is, will become hyper-polarized and boom, some form of apocalyptic denouement will boil over, as sure as making popcorn. As I've covered on another thread, this is the phenomenon experienced with Nazi Germany, which was a messianic millennial (the 1,000 year Reich) movement, with Hitler as it's (False) Messiah. The Nazis hid behind the cover story that they were straying pagan volks, but the messianic theme was cribbed right out of the Bible and included at its core the traditional Christian antipathy towards the tribe of Judah, the ironic "Christ killers". The notion of the Third Reich harkens back, directly or indirectly, to imperial Rome, including such as the Fascist symbol of the fasces.

And so imagine my surprise to re-read Ellis' take on Queen Helena and (son) Izates of Adiabene (aka Josephus' Jesus of Gamala and the 'Egyptian') as leading a political movement that parallels contemporary libertarianism. These rebels being in opposition to the globalizing power of the day, Rome (and its allies including Hellenized Jews). Today's libertarian movement has been somewhat co-opted into abandoning some of its principles, while the demagogue and fake populist Donald Trump seems to be leading his zealous MAGAites over a cliff, ala Atwill's demon possessed pigs of Gadara.

These opposing parties form a dialectic, but note that their Egyptian and Roman ancestors are in common. This is consistent with Jerry's and mine thesis regarding the False Dialectic of Western Civilization, and this is exactly what is happening with the Orange Beast today, and the Biblical Samson, as chaos agents of change.

So in the common posts on this thread, I hope to discuss Ellis various claims regarding how Cleopatra got us to Christ (with the help of some Chrest-like Flavian literary friends). suffice it for now that Josephus named a lot of real, historical people. Yet in this lineage from Cleopatra he left a very clever trail of veiled breadcrumbs to follow. As Ellis stated, there was no need for him do so if he weren't trying to hide the actual names of real people, whose inclusion would destroy the illusion of the historical fascia.
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As Ellis stated, there was no need for him do so if he weren't trying to hide the actual names of real people, whose inclusion would destroy the illusion of the historical fascia.

Cleopatra to Christ and King Jesus were the first two books in what Ellis now considers a trilogy. The third book is Jesus King of Edessa, where Ellis shows that Josephus's dynasty of Adiabene can be equated with the archaeologically validated Abgarid dynasty of Osroene, whose capital was at Edessa. Traditionally, this is said to be Ur of the Chaldees, birthplace of Abraham.

Ellis notes an amusing connection between Phraates IV, identified by Ellis as the true founder of the Abgarids, and the King of the card deck...

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I wonder if the single bladed axe, or labrys, was common royal iconography for such as the Parthians? More explicit single-bladed axe fasces are seen on such as Roman coins. It appears that for some reason it was the Romans, or during their time that their fasces adopted the single blade, whereas the Etruscans used the common double blade.

I recently watched another episode of the Unearthed series, this one on the Minoans. It opened featuring a discussion of a common linear geometric wall engraving on the walls of the royal areas at Knossos. It is a double bladed labrys. They mentioned that it is conjectured that the double blade might symbolized the dual roles of religious and secular rule.

It's also interesting to learn that the Romans, at least, would only affix the axe blade to the fasces if the circumstances or wielding authority merited the possibility of exercising lethal power. Otherwise, for such as the civil functions of a lower magistrate the axe was left off. Since having the axe on or off was so symbolic, then what reason did they adopt the single blade versus the double blade? Because they were so macho obsessed and the double bladed axe was frequently associated with female power? But this would make a hash out of the conjecture in the prior paragraph.
Part 2

With the very title of Ellis' book Cleopatra to Christ we are presented with the seemingly huge problem of how one could ever get from one to the other, from the get go. After all, all the surviving female line was accounted for, right? Cleopatra's daughter with Mark Antony, Cleopatra Selene, was married off by Augustus to the vassal king of Mauritania. Cleopatra VII's sister, Arsinoe, was supposedly assassinated by agents of Mark Antony's, and later Augustus had Caesarion assassinated, the only begotten son of his adoptive parent, also a god.

With this problem, Ellis examines various matter including letter from Cicero, where one can easily deduct that Cleopatra was pregnant at the time that she felt mortally compelled to absquatulate (my new favorite word) from her late lover's love nest. Ellis discusses how Julius Caesar's chronology prior to his assassination allowed for him to be the father. What is missing is any mention in the record of the existence of this daughter, while we know all about subsequent children of Cleo's with Mark Antony.

We are left to reasonably understand that Augustus felt that Mark Antony's children were no threat to succeed as emperor, but why would they be loyal to him, to the point that he trusts such as Selene to represent Rome as a vassal queen.

And since everyone already knew about the young Caesarion, what would be accomplished by hiding the existence of another child still in the womb? Well, for one thing, nobody, including Cleo could know whether the fetus was a male of female, and hence it might be a back-up to Caesarion in Cleo's obvious bid to femcuck her Ptolemaic line into the brand new Roman empire -- that Julius gave impetus to. So, here she would necessarily want to keep the pregnancy mum. But why would suspicious Romans need to be so coy?

This is a very similar problem to the rumored circumstances of the twin Yorkist princes allegedly killed by their uncle, Richard III. One account has it that one twin was secretively spirited away to Europe being replaced with a body double. Ironically one of the men at the center of deposing Richard III, Sir William Stanley, using the princes as a pretext, was later beheaded by Henry VII Tudor because William apparently was discovered siding with the cause that the one prince had indeed secretly survived in exile, thus a threat to Henry.

In any case, from Cleo's perspective, it would make sense even after the revelation that the child was a girl to continue keeping this child a public secret. Hence we know nothing from the historical accounts, via this POV.

As I mentioned at the end of my introductory post, such secrecy about a competing lineage would extend to Josephus Flavius's mortal existence, and hence his motive to cleverly obscure the names of this spurious, yet powerful, line from Julius and Cleo. As Ellis lays out, the names employed by Josephus all have various links that hint to the close observer what is really going on. But, why even go to this approach when Josephus could just have easily employed names that could not be ascertained as Ellis has done? This was a technique that was known, as Ellis used the same technique in prior works to reveal that the lineal heroes of the OT are really encrypted pharaohs of Egypt.

To digress slightly, Ellis' work with this last 'seems' to throw a monkey wrench into my development of the family tree of Jacob, emphasizing the elevation of Ephraim (the half-tribe of Joseph), over all the others including uncle Judah. I believe the solution to this conundrum is likely found in the same literary methodology revealed by Flavio Barbiero in his Secret Society of Moses. Barbiero noted how there was textual games being played with the lineages of Moses and Aaron. This, where we are supposed to believe that Moses (a pharaoh) is accorded as having no spawn, while brother Aaron continues propagating the priestly line of Levi.

From the Sabbah brothers' trenchant Secrets of the Exodus, we see that the pharaoh (Moses) still retains his official position in Egypt whilst his alter ego becomes the Biblical Moses in the remote desert. The narrative Moses plays out the extrapolated role of an exiled(?) real pharaoh, Akhenaton.

Where am I going with this digression? Ellis has laid out the existence of a competing lineage to the historical Roman line, but that it stems from Julius Caesar, grafted onto the pharaonic line. As such, can this be a modus operandi, a script being approximately repeated? With the 18th Dynasty, I have discussed that some feel that Amenhotep III had a co-regency with his son Akhenaton, and was OK with the creation of what we know today as Amarna. We've seen that Amenhotep III also had a very unique relationship with the Mycenaeans, who seem to have partially become the tribe of Dan, leading to the agent of chaos, the Nazarite Samson.

This all revolves around a relatively long process of transformation around the ending of the Bronze Age, of which only Egypt survived.


As we move on, we'll see Ellis discussing Naz.. related names, including Nazarene. They all eventually lead back to Egyptian royalty, as well as back to Edessa / Ur(fa) of the Chaldees and to ... Sabeans.

In the same vein, as I have discussed Jesus meeting in the wilderness with Satan, where Jesus cedes Earth to (his secret brother) Satan, the Book of Revelation mentions that such reigns are swapped on a millennial basis. This appears to be the basis of the Norman Conquest, 1,000 years after the fall of Jerusalem, and its Doomsday Domesday Book. The Normans took over cities in England like the Levites took over the 48 cities of destabilized Canaan. As the Sabbah brothers revealed the original personal prelature priesthood of Amenhotep III were the Yahud. For deniability sake, names get changed to protect the perps.

Thus, we have a framework of understanding that coherently supports Ellis' thesis.

To be continued:
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Part 3

So now that its been discussed that it seems likely that Cleopatra had a 'secret' daughter with Julius Caesar, then where did she end up? Ellis takes us back to our old friend, Josephus Flavius, who recounts the story of Augustus providing an a then common alliance marriage gift of an 'Italian concubine' to the Parthian King Phraates IV in the context of Augustus' more restive policy of the Pax Romana. Yet he gives this important king just a concubine, albeit likely beautiful? He had given a lesser king, an allied vassal, a known daughter of Cleopatra VII, Cleopatra Selene. And it is known in these later times, that even the Egyptians had given the Parthians Egyptians princesses as such brides.

So as Ellis suggests, it seems that there is likely much more to the official story.

Josephus gives this 'concubine' the name of Thermusa, otherwise not mentioned by other accounts. Josephus goes on to recount that Thermusa has a son with Phraates IV eventually named Phraates V, or Phraataces. Josephus states that Phraates IV already had prior sons with royal wives, not mere concubines, yet Thermusa's hold on her husband is so great that she convinces him to send his other 'royal' sons to Augustus to serve as 'hostage', a common practice to ensure compliance of a lesser noble to such as a king or emperor. However, in this specific case something seems a little off, as what was being leveraged against Phraates IV except Thermusa's alleged female powers over him?

At some point Augustus makes a trip to the east and enters negotiation for the return of two legionary battle standards that had been lost in battles to the Parthians. These battle standards were a big political deal to Romans, and knowing this the Parthians had resisted previous Roman efforts to get them back. The last time was when Mark Antony tried with force and lost the second standard in pursuit of the first. So, Ellis ponders, why did Phraates IV accede to give the battle standards back, keeping it in mind was Phraates IV himself who had previously done the refusing, not his predecessors? The only thing that seems to make sense in this context is that Thermusa and son convince him to do so, perhaps the two receiving some secret payoff from Augustus in return?

Later on, Ellis will explain that after mother and son are booted from Parthia, Augustus does put one of Phraates IV's hostaged sons back on the Parthian throne. At this point one has to wonder just how much royal blood matters versus potentially divided loyalties, e.g. serving two masters. Surely Augustus would choose the son seemingly most compliant to him.

The next thing we know, after the sons have been sent off, is that Phraates IV ends up in the Parthian morgue, and rumor has it that Thermusa and son have poisoned him. The death leaving the son to claim the crown, having also conveniently been named as successor by his father before he died. As Ellis relates, such as this 'concubine' and the wild narrative was one more reason that Josephus' historical accuracy has been doubted over time. Yet coins of her and her son have been discovered, proving their existence. And she was known in reality as Thea Muse (or Musa) Ourania.

Josephus recounted that mother and son then married ... each other, and hence why they end up together on said coins. This incestuous practice is not known anywhere but with the royal court of Egypt, and as Josephus recounts this caused cultural outrage in Parthia. Sooner or later, mother and son are deposed and send packing. While Augustus is recorded on the Monumentum Ancyranum (Ankara, Turkey) that the two returned to him as suppliants, they don't go back to Augustus physically, but rather take up somewhere in Roman Syria, with their retinue and retainer of 500 armed horsemen, and where they will raise their children.

I will come back later to detail the additional reasons Ellis identifies Thea Muse Ourania as the 'secret' daughter of Julius Caesar, but for now, Ellis relates that Josephus provides the rationale for just why the two incestuous love birds end up in a province called Batanea (shades of Bethany). Because of the military problems that the Parthians, including Phraates IV, had been giving the Romans and along the Palestine frontier that Herod the Great and later apropos son were willing to provide land to a suitable party. Who would provide a buffer line of defense, the land tax free with regard to remitting to the Jerusalem Temple and to the Herodians.

Tax free land on the frontiers of the Roman empire?
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Part 4

Ellis provides 6 (actually 7) reasons to believe that Thea Muse Ourania is indeed Julius and Cleo's secret daughter, aka Josephus' Thermusa:

  1. This first seems a little weak. It is, as mentioned prior, that the Ptolomid Egyptians had prior provided princesses to this region, however the kings at this time were Seleucid Greeks, part of Alexander's globalist enterprise, as were the Ptolomids.
  2. The Second Avroman Parchment lists the wives of Phraates IV, five years after he takes Thermusa from Augustus, as being: Oleniere, Baseita, Bisthebanaps, and ... Cleopatra. (Sourced via Ellis from the Cambridge History of Iran, Vol. 3a)
  3. Ellis discusses the synergy of goddess names relating to heavenly aspects, plausibly linking Ourania to Isis, which all Egyptian 'Cleopatra's' linked themselves to.
  4. According to Josephus, the pharaoh's daughter who saved Moses was named Thermuthis, and Ellis talks about an equivalent Egyptian name of Renenutet, a goddess linked to Isis. But as well Ellis discusses a literary visual pun with Renenutet regarding her nature of "rearing up" (like a cobra). But "rearing up", visually at least, can be equated with the rearing up of a child. Unfortunately Ellis failed to complete the typology, so I will: the rearing up of Moses (leading to Joshua - Yeshua) might be equated with the rearing up of the lineage that leads to Izates (Jesus - Yeshua).
  5. Ellis states that the Greek clio is derived from the 'muse' Cleo, hence Cleopatra being the "Poetical Muse of my (Heavenly?) Father". Here, Ellis also ties Isis to the foreign goddess Ast (Astarte) and Est, where the term Easter derives.
  6. Phraates IV and TMO also had a daughter, named Julia Ourania. The name Julia, is also the 'Iulia' clan surname of Julius Caesar, and such names are not assigned lightly amongst royal families, especially in the supposed enemy camp. And here, Ellis asks why she wasn't named Octavia instead. The link to Julius, and to Cleo VII, were being communicated, to those few who paid attention, with eyes to see and ears to hear.
  7. The French historian, Settipani, suggested that Julia Ourania was married to Ptolemy of Mauritania, whose mother was Cleopatra Selene, Julia's aunt.
Part 5

In regards to the exiled Thea Muse Ourania and her son/husband, Phraates V, settling somewhere in 'Syria', Ellis quotes Josephus:

Accordingly when (Herod) understood there was a man that was a Jew was come out of Babylon, with five hundred horsemen, all of whom could shoot their arrows on horseback; and with a hundred of his relations, and had passed over the Euphrates and now abode at Antioch (in the north of the Levant opposite Cyprus). (Herod) sent for this man and promised to give him land in the area of Batanea ... he also promised to let him hold the country ... tax free. (Josephus Antiquities, 17:24)​

As Ellis discusses, this quote raises a number of issues which if taken at face value would cause us to reject Ellis' thesis. However, when considered at a deeper level, this and similar accounts provide a lot more clarification ... to much more than we might have ever figured upon. Also, note what I have recently written separately here about Egyptian origins:

The first contextually interesting term is 'Jew', for in what sense could this couple be accounted for as being Jewish? The second term is 'Babylon', for we were talking about Parthia, where they were exiled from. Then, where is Batanea and how is it relevant? And then there is that issue about taxes.

Ellis' solution to the Jewish identification fits right in with our Postflavian approach, in that Judaism is clearly derived from Egyptian religion at its oldest strata. Not only that, but this connection is at the highest level of society and its traditional relationships with religion. This specific identification is no light matter, as it becomes central to the formation of the 'Christian' gospel narrative and the subsequent graft in Romans 11. That is, the grafting of 'gentiles' branch' onto the 'Jewish' or Hebrew Root of Jesse. In prior books, Ellis has shown how Jesse is really a disguised pharaoh, the father of subsequent pharaoh, King David. This encrypted path is how 'Jesus' rates as being of the line of David.

This Babylonian 'Jewish' individual Josephus names as Zamaris, whom he then identifies as the Biblical Judas of Gamala (or Galilee), whom he further goes on to demonstrate how he can be considered Joseph, the father of Jesus (the Nazarene), and Josephus' Jesus of Gamala as well. This latter individual's mother then is Queen Helena of Adiabene, who becomes a Nazarite in Jerusalem, and thus we know as the Virgin Mary.
  • Ellis points out that the meaning of the name Zamaris is a cryptic clue pointing to Julius Caesar's baldness, a genetic trait
  • Zamaris / Phraates IV / Judas of Gamala / Joseph has a sister, Julia Ouriana, indicating a connection to the Iulia line
Josephus notes that Judas of Gamala is the founder of the so-called Fourth Sect of Judaism, meaning it is a novelty for the time. Josephus thus states:
" ... they have an inviolable attachment to liberty, and say that God is to be their only ruler or lord." (Josephus Antiquities, 18:23)​

As Ellis will go to discuss this aspect becomes the same social dialectic (of libertarian, ethnocentric nationalists versus authoritarian, cosmopolitan globalists) that we are witnessing today, as I have been discussing on other threads. It is actually two separate dialects confusingly conflated together, which I will try to disentangle later. In any case, I was quite excited in my re-reading of CtC that Ellis had identified this phenomenon, that our Postflavian thesis should predict. I will interpret the nature of the dialect(s) a bit different and cynically than Ellis however.

The next issue is that of 'Babylon'. At this time ancient Babylon was for centuries part of Parthia, and we must consider that the Parthians were perhaps most famous for their horse-mounted archers, who could shoot accurately when 'offensively retreating' from the enemy. That this 'Jew' had an armed retainer of 500 and a retinue of 100 relatives indicates that he was yet a man of some importance, like a royal or 'noble' at least. If Josephus had a motive for shading matters once, he would do so here as well. And, he hasn't really told a lie in doing so.

It is one thing to claim that the Biblical Jesus descends from a 'Jewish' king (whose actual existence, as depicted, has never been shown) and another to let it definitively slip out, at any point in this encrypted narrative chain, that this Jesus and friends are literally royalty of the highest order. This is consistent with the depiction of all the Biblical Patriarchs as we have discussed in our Old Testament analysis series, where royal personages are transposed into patriarchal hillbillies. Here, as usual, Josephus knows his literary craft, which utilizes typological imitatio, and not inovatio.

Next we move on the region of Betanea, and as Ellis discusses, the regions and boundaries of such as Betanea have become muddled in the passage of time. And he will go on to develop compelling cases for why these areas and several place names can be considered the actual places that the gospels discuss in the early life of Jesus.. I will not go into detail on this aspect as I want to move on to such as the tax and 'Liberty' issue that Ellis gets to.

Beyond that, I would like to add that Ellis' approach seems to make him, and anyone like me who supports it, as 'historicists' and not in the camp of 'mythicists'. However, this requires a nuance in the term of 'historicist, however, as no one is saying here that Jesus of Nazareth existed, as depicted in the Bible. If there is some veiled historical figure, or even more than one, then stubbornly insisting on pure mythicism is deliberately putting on blinkers. Who benefits?

Enough for now.
Part 6

In Cleopatra to Christ Ellis has done a good job, in my opinion, of making the case that the New Testament's Holy Family is historical yet not the absurd depiction of they're being of humble tradesmen stock ... and at the same time of the lineage of a famous king. Just like King David's true identity having been veiled, the same applies for the Holy Family.

And in my opinion, this clever disguising in the Gospel and Pauline accounts is all the more reason to understand why the orthodox canon would not have been in wide circulation for centuries, a too many hoi polloi would have known the real account and names, and have been passing down this knowledge orally for several generations before it fading out sufficiently. In the mean time, the Gospels are known as the 'Chrestian' account, by a sub rosa organization that appears to likely be the Romanized cult of Mithra.

In this same early period the 'Roman' Church is said to have been courted by gnostic leaders such as Valentinus, who desired ecclesiastical offices. In this period the transitional 'Chrestian' (in Bartram's parlance) Church is logically a big tent. And this is likely one reason that Josephus/Paul employed the metaphorical device that his parents were 'tentmakers' from Tarsus (the cult center for Mithraism BTW). Like Josephus/Paul has informed us about the Greek Castor and Pollux (Pythagorean) vector into Christianity, he is informing us here about the Persian/Parthian vector here, and elsewhere he informs us of the Egyptian vector.

All of these vectors are more 'overtly' represented in the Mithraic symbolism of the 'underground' church -- of the elites. Such would be the case with the later manifestations of the Templars and the Freemasons, as I concur with Flavio Barbiero in this regard.

Where I diverge from most others, including Ellis, is in the depiction of this underground stream as being at odds with the Church, especially the Roman Church. There is only the appearance of such, and this appearance is carefully groomed, as part of what is termed "controlled opposition". The purpose being that the hoi polloi must not be allowed to understand that it is their trusted Shepherds that are simultaneously and intimately involved in undermining them, degrading their culture and such. All for the Greater (global) Good, so to speak, which is a euphemism for: not likely for your personal greater good.

While in my opinion Ellis is generally correct in his analysis of various Gospel parables demonstrating that references to the Kingdom of Heaven is clever Church spiritual reframing of 'nationalist' promotional propaganda of the Holy Family, where Thea Muse Ourania (like her mother Cleopatra VII) would properly be known as the (Egyptian) Queen of Heaven (Isis), at an esoteric level the Roman Church would not have had any objection to this at all, in fact it is quite proud of such. It would only object to the average person understanding this.

If Augustus Caesar had inserted the descendant of Julius Caesar and Cleopatra VII into Parthia, then the Roman imperial apparatus was continually aware of developments, and likely helped guide future developments to their advantage. Here I can see them encouraging Phraates V (Joseph) and his son Izates (Jesus) to develop their nationalist 4th Creed (as Josephus depicts it) while perhaps leading them on as patsies. This Izates is thus also the 'Egyptian' whose military rebellion fails, and here the Gospel Jesus sees that his fig tree is barren, meaning it is not in the cards for him to succeed to the imperial throne. The Flavian Chrestians have duped him, while his 'friend' Josephus has thrown in his cards with them, the Graft of Romans 11 has been achieved.

And where Ellis is generally correct that a globalist versus nationalist dialectic is respectively formed between Rome and the disguised Holy Family, here as with today's dynamic, I assert this is all controlled opposition. Like the 20th century Fascists (including the fake 'pagan' Nazis) close ties to the Catholic Church, Steve Bannon is a good Catholic boy. Where Ellis points out that the disguised Holy Family were hedonistically libertine via such as their incestuous royal Egyptian marriage(s) practice, the elites of imperial and Christian Rome were ever two-faced in these regards. Donald Trump is repeating the libertine typology in his pandering to America's nationalist zealots, even hinting at his 'odd' relationship with his favorite daughter, and that he "can get away with murder". All the while his White House is filled with Georgetown apparatchiks.

As Ellis will go to discuss this aspect becomes the same social dialectic (of libertarian, ethnocentric nationalists versus authoritarian, cosmopolitan globalists) that we are witnessing today, as I have been discussing on other threads. It is actually two separate dialects confusingly conflated together, which I will try to disentangle later. In any case, I was quite excited in my re-reading of CtC that Ellis had identified this phenomenon, that our Postflavian thesis should predict. I will interpret the nature of the dialect(s) a bit different and cynically than Ellis however.

In the most recent years I have serendipitously learned of the seemingly paradoxical sponsorship of the modern libertarian political and economic movement by the 'remnants' of various Euro-royal houses, such as the Bourbons and Hapsburgs. This via their Mont Pelerin Society, and this operates in conjunction with the so-called Austrian School of Economics, that of laissez faire economists von Mises and Hayek. The Hapsburgs were the emperors of the Second Reich, the so-called Holy Roman Empire. The seeming paradox can only be resolved once one understands the aspects of such as "controlled opposition" and transitional hidden agendas. Without 'seeing' the underlying sponsorships we are misled to believe that such as libertarianism, especially the most extreme Randian form as being of an organic nature. The exact same thing goes for totalitarian Communism, and while we should be seeking to find middle ground in all such, we are today informed by the 'patriots' that anything short of Randian extremism is godless Communism. Who is benefiting from such artificial polarization?

Ironically, this economic dialectic leaves space for such as yesterdays' 20th century and today's Fascists to claim the 'rhetorical' economic middle ground (aligned somewhat with the late 19th century Papal Bull Rerum Novarum) while performing the redux of simultaneously blaming the Jews for both the real excesses of Capitalism and Marxism. But who really wants to get into bed with such hateful and paranoid kooks?

And so just as I see today's machinations, where Right and Left are controlled oppositions at the highest levels, the same occurred in Biblical times, both OT and NT, and hence form our Postflavian notion of the False Dialectic of Western Civilization. The playbook stays the same, because it works on the same underlying human psychology. The Jewish War provided the chaotic social backdrop to shoehorn a new religion into place over the course of several centuries, that replaced several others and so-called mystery cults.

Today, we are repeating the same script, even having recreated Israel as a flashpoint and Persia (Iran) as the West's foil du jour. Today, as President Nero (or Caligula?) flaunts every American norm or law he can find, oil tankers are attacked in the Gulf of Oman (an extension of the Persian Gulf). Or so we are to believe.
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Part 7

Moving back to Ellis' King Jesus book, he continues to develop his prior thesis that Saul/Paul is one and the same with Josephus Flavius, whom he shortens to Saul-Josephus. And in this regard, he is similar to Atwill in asserting that Josephus was central to the efforts in producing what became known to us as the canonic Gospels. In making this claim he is discussing various canonic texts to demonstrate that there was indeed a Galilean Sect in (seeming?) ideological opposition (or in competition?) with the efforts of Imperial Rome. Ellis thus discusses various NT persons as necessarily being the siblings of this 'Jesus', like Judas (the Sicari) and Simon (the Zealot), and of course, that these were all part of the buffer region set up to protect against the aggressive Parthians.

And similarly, in Chapter V, Brother Barnabas Ellis discusses more about how Josephus has textually veiled not only himself, but what appears to be his older brother. In Acts Paul makes his early journeys with a character known as Barnabas, or Barsabas. These two will eventually have a theological parting of the ways and part company. Paul will make his break with the church of the (Jerusalem / Galilean) apostles and form what became Pauline Christianity, while Barnabas, according to the apocryphal Gospel of Barnabas at least, criticizes Saul/Paul's innovations and apparently stays with the more 'Judaic' apostles.

Many, being deceived of Satan, under presence of piety, are preaching most impious doctrine: calling Jesus son of God, repudiating the circumcision, and permitting every unclean meat: among whom also Saul has been deceived ... Therefore beware of every one that preaches unto you new doctrine contrary to that which I write, that ye may be saved eternally. (Gospel of Barnabas Introduction)​

In fact, one might concluded that from the tone above that this Barnabas is rather high ranking in the Jerusalem / Galilean Church. Ellis demonstrates that this Barnabas, or Barsab(b)as, is likely one and the same as the Matthias elected to replace Judas, who had betrayed Jesus to the authorities.

23So they proposed two men: Joseph called Barsabbas (also known as Justus) and Matthias. 24And they prayed, “Lord, You know everyone’s heart. Show us which of these two You have chosen 25to assume this ministry and apostleship, which Judas abandoned to go to his rightful place.”
26Then they cast lots, and the lot fell to Matthias; so he was added to the eleven apostles. (Acts 1, KJV)​

Ellis points out that in the Clementine Recognitians (1:60) that Matthias, appointed to replace Judas, was also known as Barnabas.

It is my contention, based upon Fideler, Barbiero, Bartram, Harris, etc., that Paul's (Saul-Josephus) 'church', or at least its exoteric expressions that we know canonically, is generally consistent with Bartram's notion of Chrestianty, of which the little that we know is likely of the esotericism that Fideler, Barbiero, and Harris discuss.

What is very interesting to me here, is that as Ellis discusses, the Jerusalem / Galilean Sect is not theologically of strict Judaism, as we know it, but rather is more expressive of 'pagan' elements, particularly that of Zodiacal astrology. Normative Judaism of the day contains this, but is more veiled such as from the imagery of Ezekiel. As Ellis discusses, this astrology is consistent with an Egyptian lineage, but as well, astrology was also considered the cutting edge science of the day amongst the Hellenized world. What is most important here, is not whether we dismiss any of this outright today from our modern perspectives, but rather we must understand the POV of the people in the day.

If Josephus is indeed at the center of the creation of (esoteric) Chrestianity/ (exoteric) Pauline Christianity as a member of the Hasmonean / Maccabee clan, then how much more 'politically' interesting can it get if Matthias is his older brother, made an apostle to replace Judas? And that Matthias, as Barnabas, is calling out his younger brother? The question then becomes, is this schism authentic, or a 'controlled opposition'?

Ellis develops from the the Barsabas variant spelling of the Barnabas name, that this etymologically means 'son of star', and this makes it consistent with the name of the Sabeans, the famous star watchers of Harran, and much wider.

While it is superficially tempting to take political or theological sides, between the Romish Pauline Church and that of the Jerusalem / Galilean Church, identically as people like to do with the Catholic / Protestant schism, or the similar Catholic / Masonic (Templar) schism, the more nuanced and correct approach is to see this all as a false and contrived dialectic of controlled opposition factions (A team versus B Team), with ultimately the same (global) goals. People choose their preferred side based upon their individual peccadilloes and/or cultural training. This is not much different at all to what we described as the original False Dialectic of Western Civilization between the synthetic Jews and the so-called Gentiles (actually meaning the elites).

Such a cynical construction(s) makes it easy to deflect criticisms. If one doesn't like some aspect of society, one is inherently provided a convenient party to blame.
Part 8:

If Josephus is indeed at the center of the creation of (esoteric) Chrestianity/ (exoteric) Pauline Christianity as a member of the Hasmonean / Maccabee clan, then how much more 'politically' interesting can it get if Matthias is his older brother, made an apostle to replace Judas? And that Matthias, as Barnabas, is calling out his younger brother? The question then becomes, is this schism authentic, or a 'controlled opposition'?
How much more?

Ellis goes on to discuss that Josephus mentions that a major change was made to the succession to the Judaic office of high priest, and for 4 successive individuals, this is selection is made by election. By playing Josephus's apparent name games and following his other breadcrumbs, one of them turns out to be Jesus of Gamala and his successor being Josephus's older brother, whose earlier rift (as Barnabas versus Paul) with Josephus indicates that Matthias was aligned with Jesus of Gamala's Galilean (Egypto-Parthian) Sect. Josephus relates that this individual had aligned interests in the region.

Whether one wants to believe Ellis' dramatic interpretations or not, one still has to deal with the issue that Josephus has still provided a subtext of issues over taxation ... that is echoed in the NT, and Josephus provides that this Galilean sect has a fundamental difference in philosophy, at odds with both the establishment Jews and the Romans. Or at least this sect has a rhetoric that appears so, to its adherents ... because Jesus of Gamala et al. are tax farmers themselves. Using various techniques such Shepherds can convince common folk that they are acting in their interests, turning them into zealous patriots -- who will be sacrificed upon crosses themselves en masse.

Using this power base of otherwise deluded individuals, these 'Galileans' were able to find a mechanism to attain the high priesthood, one leg of the so-called Dual Messiah, the other being the secular kingship (thus INRI). In any case, this possible attainment of the high priesthood is interesting in the Catholic relic of the ephod of Jesus, kept at the Trier Cathedral. The ephod being the required seamless robe of a high priest of Judaism.

Ellis, using the same techniques, develops that Josephus is cryptically stating that he, Josephus himself, is really the much younger half-brother of ... John the Baptist. The latter of which Josephus had explicitely mentioned in his works. In this regard, he had already discussed how JoB's rustic qualities are really more word games, and that JoB had elite Egyptian lineage (like Jesus of Gamala), of which also aligns better with what was stated for Simon Magus, a reputed disciple of JoB's. We are also left to ponder whether Simon Magus's Helena is one and the same with Queen Helena of Adiabene, the latter of which had bought grain from Egypt to save the Judeans during a famine. And was this the leverage, or part of it, to gain the high priesthood for the Galilean Sect?

Interestingly, these two successive high priests are in the time frame of the beginning of the Jewish War. The Biblical Jesus, if transposed in time, has come to bring civil war, dividing families, he associates with Zealots and Sicari - probably siblings, and is arrested by a rather large martial force, seeming overkill for the gospel narrative.

In this frame then Josephus' rebel 'friend' is rescued from the Kidron Valley cross and revived. He had been arrested in the aftermath of the destruction of the the Temple and surrender of Jerusalem. Was this individual rescued for sentimental reasons or that this is all for show? That the Family fix was in, somewhat like Islam says that Isa was replaced on the cross by an impostor? Why does the accumulated evidence throughout history seem to indicate the same in such circumstances? In other words, "Where is the Beef?"

Returning to JoB, Ellis' analysis does seem to help make sense of the reverence that both the Knights Templar and the odd Mandaeans had for him over 'Jesus'. The irony being that Josephus (as Paul) created normative Christianity. And as Ellis goes on, also Rabbinic Judaism as we know it today, thus perpetuating the False Dialectic of Western Society.
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Part 9:

I ran across this about the destruction of the temple in researching some of Ellis' material:

3. Thus were the miserable people persuaded by these deceivers, and such as belied God himself; while they did not attend nor give credit to the signs that were so evident, and did so plainly foretell their future desolation, but, like men infatuated, without either eyes to see or minds to consider, did not regard the denunciations that God made to them. Thus there was a star783 resembling a sword, which stood over the city, and a comet, that continued a whole year. Thus also before the Jews' rebellion, and before those commotions which preceded the war, when the people were come in great crowds to the feast of unleavened bread, on the eighth day of the month Xanthicus,784 [Nisan,] and at the ninth hour of the night, so great a light shone round the altar and the holy house, that it appeared to be bright day time; which lasted for half an hour. This light seemed to be a good sign to the unskillful, but was so interpreted by the sacred scribes, as to portend those events that followed immediately upon it. At the same festival also, a heifer, as she was led by the high priest to be sacrificed, brought forth a lamb in the midst of the temple. Moreover, the eastern gate of the inner785 [court of the] temple, which was of brass, and vastly heavy, and had been with difficulty shut by twenty men, and rested upon a basis armed with iron, and had bolts fastened very deep into the firm floor, which was there made of one entire stone, was seen to be opened of its own accord about the sixth hour of the night. Now those that kept watch in the temple came hereupon running to the captain of the temple, and told him of it; who then came up thither, and not without great difficulty was able to shut the gate again. This also appeared to the vulgar to be a very happy prodigy, as if God did thereby open them the gate of happiness. But the men of learning understood it, that the security of their holy house was dissolved of its own accord, and that the gate was opened for the advantage of their enemies. So these publicly declared that the signal foreshowed the desolation that was coming upon them. Besides these, a few days after that feast, on the one and twentieth day of the month Artemisius, [Jyar,] a certain prodigious and incredible phenomenon appeared: I suppose the account of it would seem to be a fable, were it not related by those that saw it, and were not the events that followed it of so considerable a nature as to deserve such signals; for, before sun-setting, chariots and troops of soldiers in their armor were seen running about among the clouds, and surrounding of cities. Moreover, at that feast which we call Pentecost, as the priests were going by night into the inner [court of the temple,] as their custom was, to perform their sacred ministrations, they said that, in the first place, they felt a quaking, and heard a great noise, and after that they heard a sound as of a great multitude, saying, "Let us remove hence." But, what is still more terrible, there was one Jesus, the son of Ananus, a plebeian and a husbandman, who, four years before the war began, and at a time when the city was in very great peace and prosperity, came to that feast whereon it is our custom for every one to make tabernacles to God in the temple,786 began on a sudden to cry aloud, "A voice from the east, a voice from the west, a voice from the four winds, a voice against Jerusalem and the holy house, a voice against the bridegrooms and the brides, and a voice against this whole people!"

Note that the heavenly army is an element found in the Book of Revelation, here part of the Preterist Second Coming.

This section of Josephus' War was discussed late in the recent MythVision podcast with Robert Price and Joe Atwill, where they were pondering whether if even Josephus is a real person. And how can we take anything 'he' says seriously if he recounts such that a heifer gives birth to a lamb. This section is talking about the gullible being fooled, while the "men of learning understood" what was going on.
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Part 10:

Ellis goes on in King Jesus to develop that:

[Text in blue are my subsequent additions.]
  • The gospel Nativity account is likely cribbed and developed from that of John the Baptist's birth, and geographically transposed from the land of more eastern Bethanya to Bethlehem.
    • The gospel Jesus is transposed back in time, consistent with Atwill.
  • That the historical Jesus was born later, and died in 103 CE (or later) likely of old age.
  • That JoB is of elite Egyptian descent, not some rustic desert vagabond.
  • That Josephus is cryptically saying that he is JoB's much younger half-brother, and the younger brother of Barnabas (from Paul's journeys).
  • That Josephus is Saul/Paul with no time shift.
    • Therefore Paul is much younger than we are led to believe, and the precocious Josephus-Paul is thus accompanied by older brother Barnabas or Silas.
  • That Josephus' brother stays in the Galilean / Essene / Nazarene camp after 'splitting' with 'Paul'.
    • Thus they are in position to act as covert liaison between the controlled opposition camps.
  • That the DSS is contemporaneous with the Jewish War period, not from earlier.
    • That Saul's 'Damascus' was Qumran.
    • That Qumran was a yeshiva for the Essene sect more aligned with its Egyptian/Amarna roots (ala Robert Feather's The Copper Scroll).
      • Hence its alliance with the Galilean Nazarenes (and the focus on the Nazarite vows). In Egyptian NZR refers to royalty, i.e. the 'prince'.
  • That earlier rebel Judas of Gamala was Jesus of Gamala's father, all part of the same clique with kin JoB.
    • That, from Cleopatra to Christ, these descend from Cleopatra VII and ... Julius Caesar, via a secret daughter cryptically referred to by Josephus and others, e.g. Cicero.
  • That Josephus blamed Jesus of Gamala for instigating the war.
  • That Jesus of Gamala was made high priest of Jerusalem via an unusual process, facilitated by the monetary remuneration of Mary Boethus, aka Boethus. That Jesus was followed by Josephus' brother, a member of the Galilean Sect.
    • That the unusual process is described in Hebrews 7 and the Talmud. It allows a non-Levite to become high priest as well.
    • That the gospel Mary Magdalene and Martha were Mary and Martha Boethus in the Talmud.
    • Jesus' mother, Queen Helena of Adiabene had earlier saved Jerusalem by buying Egyptian grain, and then became a 'Jewish' Nazarite (following the vows in Numbers 6 and the Talmud). The vows are really for preparing for the ascendance to Judaic royalty. A true Nazarene is therefore an adherent of this lineage of Egyptian royalty.
  • That the Nazarenes are one and the same as the gnostic Naasseni and Ophites.
    • Therefore, technically, the 'gnostics' long preceded the emergence of normative Roman Christianity -- the caveat being Bartram's (transitional IMHO) esoteric (and Flavian) Chrestians. Both groups appear to be heavily influenced by Platonism (see Fideler's Jesus Christ, Sun of God).
  • That Johanan ben Zakkai is really Josephus
    • That the nature of Josephus' 'capture' in Jotapata allows him to remain incognito such that he can be reinserted into Jerusalem. When ben Zakkai is rolled out of the carpet and makes the Star Prophecy for Vespasian this is Josephus reasserting it from his previous performance at Jotapata.
    • While there are plenty of statements by ben Zakkai in the Talmud there are curiously no details of his life. It is reminiscent of Josephus being so cryptic with the names of Jesus of Gamala's ancestors.
[I'll try to update the above as needed.]

If we can trust that Josephus is correct that the leaders of the Galilean sect, part of the rebel faction, has instigated the war with Rome, and that Ellis is correct that this family descends (via Julius Caesar and Cleo VII) from the same elite tribal cabal of Sabeans, we can see various Machiavellian techniques being employed. Such as cuckolding of lineages, and then goading others into war as a means of divide and conquer. But more importantly, all this apocalyptic sturm und drang allows for the gradual imposition of a new 'universal' religion for the ever larger Sabine dominated region.

In the process Esau (the Sabine Romans and the Herodians (Idumites, Edomites, Esau)) regains his inheritance, the Abrahamic blessing taken by twin brother Jacob. But they're still good buddies.
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Part 11:

The following is the conclusion of a nice article by Ellis about the meaning of a mosaic discovered in the synagogue of the village of Huqoq, Israel. Ellis asserts that it refers to the claim in the Talnud's Gittin 55b-56a that the Jewish War was started by a Kamza and a Bar Kamza, whom Ellis identifies (in a subsequent book to King Jesus) with being the royal family of Edessa, previously discussed as Judah and son Jesus of Gamala (from Josephus' works).

But this explanation also gives us a hidden Jewish history, a possibility that has never been explored previously. The king in this mosaic wears a purple cloak, which was the sole prerogative of the emperor of Rome, and this strongly suggests that King Manu wanted to become the next emperor. And this suggestion is not as unlikely as it may at first seem. After the Pisonian plot to murder Nero in AD 65, this openly despised emperor was a dead man walking and everyone knew it. And without an obvious dynastic successor to Nero, the Throne of Rome would soon be open anyone with a large treasury and a loyal army. Thus there was much jostling for position, that ended up with the suicide of Nero in AD 68 and the tumultuous Year of Four Emperors.
But if the truth were known, there was a fifth contestant for the Throne of Rome – King Izas Manu VI of Edessa, who controlled much of Syria following the defeat of Cestius; and was about to consolidate the whole of the Levant, including Judaea, under his control. However, Rome had sent commander Vespasian to the Levant, and so King Manu got ensnared in a three-way dispute with Jewish forces loyal to Rome and the Roman legions under Vespasian. So while the Jewish Revolt is normally regarded as a simplistic taxation revolt against Rome, it is highly likely to have been a bold bid by the Edessan monarchy for the Throne of Rome.
The two contestants for the Throne were commander Vespasian and King Manu VI, and after the dust had settled in Judaea, it was Vespasian who sailed to Rome as the next emperor. But had King Manu of Edessa won this Revolt, the next emperor of Rome would have been a Nazarite Jew. And while many historians may dismiss this possibility as improbable, much the same did indeed happen a century and a half later, when Elagabalus became Emperor of Rome. Elagabalus was also from Syria and he venerated the elagabal-omphalos stone, just as the kings of Edessa had done. The elagabal stone was reputed to have been Jacob’s massebah-stone,7 which is sometimes translated as a pillar or pillow in the English. It is also called a bethel or House of God, which is what the Edessan monarchy claimed to possess, but the bethel ‘stone’ was actually an Ark of the Covenant style box that contained the sacred elagabal stone. This stone eventually went to Rome with Elagabalus, but went missing after the emperor’s sudden but not too unexpected demise.
Following the failure of the Jewish Revolt and the elevation of Vespasian to the Throne of Rome, this entire history was deemed to be politically ‘inconvenient’. Vespasian did not want other minor princelings in the Empire deciding to revolt against Rome, and so all references to Edessa and to kings Abgarus and Manu were erased from history, which is why Josephus Flavius never openly mentions them. Likewise the Talmud only mentions them in code, which is why the name bar Kamza (meaning locust) has been used. The only other cryptic reference to the Edessan monarchy is in Acts of the Apostles, where a ‘prophet’ called Agabus gives famine relief to Jerusalem in AD 47 (Acts 11:28) – the very same famine relief that Queen Helena of Edessa sent. Ergo, this biblical Agabus (meaning locust) is actually King Abgarus of Edessa, who was married to Queen Helena.
In short, the depiction on this mosaic is a lot more complex than the archaeologists at Huqoq have suggested. Here is a very early depiction of King Izates Manu VI of Edessa, the Nazarite Jew who wanted to take over Judaeo-Israel as a stepping-stone to taking over the entire Roman Empire. But he lost this battle to Vespasian, was crucified, was reprieved (by Josephus Flavius himself),9 and then sent into exile. And this traumatic event resulted in the destruction of the Temple, and the exile of the Jewish Diaspora all over the Roman Empire.
So it is not surprising that this ‘Bar Kamza’ mosaic was portrayed in the Huqoq synagogue, alongside all the other momentous events from Judaic history, because the event it portrays is absolutely pivotal within Jewish history. This was the very religio-political spark that ignited the Jewish Revolt – that resulted in the destruction of the Temple, the destruction of Jerusalem, and the exile of the Jewish Diaspora across the Roman Empire. And so the outcome of the event portrayed in this mosaic was not resolved until 1947, with the establishment of modern Israel. In other words this mosaic portrays a Grand Central Station of Jewish history, and yet nobody appears to realise I.T!

As Ellis discusses in the article and in King Jesus, a comparison of Gittin 55b and 56 and other relevant texts provide cryptic clues to the identities of several historical people, not just King Izates Many VI (aka Jesus the Nazarene). Such that in reading between the lines that there is some funny business going on behind the scenes, that was not safe to reveal outright.

Nero is told by some rabbi or rabbis to provide a sacrificial heifer, but it is offered up for Nero in Jerusalaem by this Bar Kamza character. Who is in Rome to tell Nero to do this? Well, Josephus is there, supposedly to convince Nero to free some rabbis. Josephus must depart Rome eventyually, and when he comes back to Jerusalem, the war soon starts. The Talmud text tells that Johanan ben Zakkai requests from Vespasian the city of Javneh and the family of Rabbi Gamaliel, but Ellis has discussed that this Gamaliel was connected to the Galilean Sect of the rebels.

As is the thesis of Ellis' King Jesus book, the Egypto-Parthian family we're talking about descended from Julius Caesar and Cleopatra VII, however we must realize that when this family was exiled from Parthia, they not only had the sponsorship of the Herodians and the Jerusalem establishment in their new buffer state, but they also had the approval of Rome, at least by what we can learn about Palmyra, in the center of the region Ellis discusses as the buffer region with Parthia:

Palmyra became part of the Roman Empire when it was conquered and paid tribute early in the reign of Tiberius, around 14 AD.[note 13][46][178] The Romans included Palmyra in the province of Syria,[177] and defined the region's boundaries; a boundary marker laid by Roman governor Silanus was found 75 kilometres (47 mi) northwest of the city at Khirbet el-Bilaas.[179] A marker at the city's southwestern border was found at Qasr al-Hayr al-Gharbi,[180] and its eastern border extended to the Euphrates valley.[180] This region included numerous villages subordinate to the center such as al-Qaryatayn (35 other settlements have been identified by 2012).[181][182][183] The Roman imperial period brought great prosperity to the city, which enjoyed a privileged status under the empire—retaining much of its internal autonomy,[46] being ruled by a council,[184] and incorporating many Greek city-state (polis) institutions into its government.[note 14][185]
The earliest Palmyrene text attesting a Roman presence in the city dates to 18 AD, when the Roman general Germanicus tried to develop a friendly relationship with Parthia; he sent the Palmyrene Alexandros to Mesene, a Parthian vassal kingdom.[note 15][188] This was followed by the arrival of the Roman legion Legio X Fretensis the following year.[note 16][189] Roman authority was minimal during the first century AD, although tax collectors were resident,[190] and a road connecting Palmyra and Sura was built in AD 75.[note 17][191] The Romans used Palmyrene soldiers,[192] but (unlike typical Roman cities) no local magistrates or prefects are recorded in the city.[191] Palmyra saw intensive construction during the first century, including the city's first walled fortifications,[193] and the Temple of Bel (completed and dedicated in 32 AD).[121] During the first century Palmyra developed from a minor desert caravan station into a leading trading center,[note 18][176] with Palmyrene merchants establishing colonies in surrounding trade centers.[188]
Palmyrene trade reached its acme during the second century,[195] aided by two factors; the first was a trade route built by Palmyrenes,[18] and protected by garrisons at major locations, including a garrison in Dura-Europos manned in 117 AD.[196] The second was the Roman conquest of the Nabataean capital Petra in 106,[46] shifting control over southern trade routes of the Arabian Peninsula from the Nabataeans to Palmyra.[note 19][46] In 129 Palmyra was visited by Hadrian, who named it "Hadriane Palmyra" and made it a free city.[198][199] Hadrian promoted Hellenism throughout the empire,[200] and Palmyra's urban expansion was modeled on that of Greece.[200] This led to new projects, including the theatre, the colonnade and the Temple of Nabu.[200] Roman garrisons are first attested in Palmyra in 167, when the cavalry Ala I Thracum Herculiana was moved to the city.[note 20][203] By the end of the second century, urban development diminished after the city's building projects peaked.[204]
As Ellis discusses, Palmyra is the city of the future queen, Zenobia, who boldly challenges Rome, seeming to act like her ancestor Cleopatra, and if Ellis is correct, King Izates Manu VI as well. This in challenging for the whole Roman empire. And this is is not too wild a claim, as Ellis discusses, about the 'Syrian' Severans and Elagabalus.

However, I claim that that all this evidence points to "collusion" at the highest levels of all involved societies, of which Josephus and the authors of the Talmud were ordered to encrypt. In fact, Ellis asserts that Josephus really is Johanan ben Zakkai. But who is Josephus?
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Richard- I'm having some difficulty following the names and timelines from Cleo to Chrest/Christ in these threads. Is Judas of Gamala also Phraates IV? Is Phraates V Jesus of Gamala? Is he the one who married his mother, Thermusa after her husband and P the V's father Phraates IV conveniently croaked- she being the concubine who is the daughter of Julius Caesar and Cleopatra VII? Is Jesus of Gamala also King Izates Manu VI of Edessa who lost his battle with Vespasian, tho' could it all be street theater and a pre-determined outcome to fog the real landscape?
Rather than me keep guessing, could you create a timeline/alias chart that helps sort this out? This is the first thread in a long time that has me hooked. Thanks-
PS- The move to Palmyra looks like another shift of a financial center ala' Venice to Frankfurt to Amsterdam to London, with "exiled" blood relations placed in Palmyra to keep tabs on things.
Yes, this mishmash (The Mishmash in the Mishkan?) of names is confusing isn't it? As intended obviously, yet the breadcrumbs left by 'Josephus' (whomever he was), once decrypted and reassembled by Ellis, leave a powerful construction of a brilliant (dark or otherwise) divide and conquer ploy -- fully consistent with our wider Postflavian False Dialectic of Western Civilization concept. And, as I've stated, is being reincorporated in the drama today.

I was/am purposely trying not to be 'scholastic' and get too detailed, as I am trying to make the most (or best) use of my time, considering my health issues. But, this aspect is so confusing that some attempt to link all the identities concisely would indeed be of benefit.

In any case, for now, Ellis has it that all these generations descending from Cleo VII were generally sleeping with mommy, as per the pharaonic tradition, and why such cryptic characters identified as the Egyptian (rebel) show up in Josephus and the NT. Thea Muse Ourania (Thermusa) was the mother of Julia Ourania (aka the Virgin Mary), and the former was the 'secret' daughter of JC and Cleo. A 'secret' except to Augustus and the subsequent imperial courts I believe.

Is Jesus of Gamala also King Izates Manu VI of Edessa who lost his battle with Vespasian, tho' could it all be street theater and a pre-determined outcome to fog the real landscape?
Yes, and yes -- in your and my speculation at least. Or it could have been a case of heads or tails wins, but the 'Family' wins either way. It is clear to me that several people besides Josephus were sleeping with the frenemy. o_O And we see this type of thing occurring all throughout Western history. It keeps happening because most everybody looks the other way when inconvenient and/or dangerous facts get in the way of our tribal biases.

PS- The move to Palmyra looks like another shift of a financial center ala' Venice to Frankfurt to Amsterdam to London, with "exiled" blood relations placed in Palmyra to keep tabs on things.
Generally yes. Only I think the blood relations were placed there to do more than keep tabs, but to be agents provocateur. And they figuratively cuckholded their way to literal messiahship, at least as brief holder of the 'annointed' Jerusalem high priesthood and an abortive attempt as annointed secular king of the Jews. As Ellis states, if successful (against Vespasian), this Jesus would have been the best candidate for emperor of it all, with the literal royal blood of Egypt, Greece, Rome, Parthia, and Israel. Such as the Flavians were 'mere' Sabine lesser nobles inheriting the pharaohship from the prior Caesars who had conquered Egypt.

Ellis will go on to assert that Jesus of Gamala, is also .... the mythic King Arthur, and that Josephus is ... (the Arthurian at least) Joseph of Arimathea. This, of course, required a time shift of about 400 years or so, and more clever encryption. Thus, as Ellis asserts the Round Table was in the elliptical Vesica Piscis 'temple' uniquely built inside the Dewa Victrix fortress. With Vespasian, this is all a 'lead pipe cinch' as Vespasian's name was found inscribed on a lead pipe feeding water to the central water feature of the structure.

Of course, as Ellis states the 'elliptical' building was a geometrically altered Vesica Piscis. Separately from Ellis, a true Vesica Piscus, inherently delivers, via its 'eternal' geometry, the number 153, which is the number of fishes caught in the gospel net, of which was meant to evoke the net of the Omphalos stone at Delphi, sacred during the prior age of Castor and Pollux. As the Flavians were (Bartramic) 'Chrestians', and their imperial symbol was the Fish and Anchor, we can be fairly certain that they were fellow initiates in the Pythagorean mathematical esotericism embedded in the NT (e.g. the 153 and the 5,000 -- see Fideler's Jesus Christ, Sun of God), same as 'Jesus'.

As such, I think that the unique complex at the Dewa Fortress was an early (to us at least) Hidden Resort. I am certain, as I've stated before, that this was the similar fate of Julius Caesar and ....

And, to reiterate, Jesus met with 'Satan' in the desert for 40 days, where 'Satan' offered Jesus control of the Earth. Jesus turned down the offer, and then we know who took over. The Sabines, former Caesars cum popes and inbred European kings and queens. Then exactly 1,000 years later, ol' William 'conquers' England, right on 'Doomsday' schedule, and with his close Norman association with those curious Knights Templars. Soon after the 'Conquest' they go back to root around in the Holy Land, including their detour to Edessa.

Note how the Norman Conquest employed similar principles as the Biblical Conquest, where with the latter the Levites were placed in administrative control of all the cities (the 48 largest) of the 12 tribal 'shires' of Israel. We know today that some of these Hebrew 'tribes' were just pre-existing Canaanites all along. With the Normans they quickly placed their Domesday nobles in charge of each shire.
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Part 12:

Skipping over the King Jesus interesting discussion of the Arthurian comparison for now, in Chapter 15, Ellis discusses what seems to have gone on at the Dewa Victrix fortress in the near aftermath of the Jewish War, as well as numerous surrounding details that strongly bolster his thesis versus milquetoast mainstream interpretations. As well, at the end of the chapter the focus shifts to the later 'Syrian' Severans and evidence that strongly supports my thesis that the so-called Galilean Sect was indeed a so-called 'controlled-opposition' front, in covert league with the royal Romans and their fellow elites in the Herodian and Hasmonean royal camps.

(Same as it ever was ... is ... and ever will be unless sheepish chimpiganity manages to wokes up. Of course, while I consider most all of this 'history' to be evidence of a mafia-like elite, inbred, meta-family working hard and wittingly to maintain its extremely profitable stranglehold on what it considers to be lesser humanity, it is possible to consider, in balance, the consequent benefits of rising out of tribal animism to ever higher levels of fewer and fewer competing 'spirit' masters of various sorts. And that as a consequence, ignoring the massive depravity, blood and gore along the way, (most) all humanity is better off for it. Of course, various anti-Modernist camps, now using their computers and such, argue for their return to the Noble Savage, at least for their respective Volks ... or ethnons. Yes, the 'universal' Catholic Church is a cog of a larger globalizing construct and process, just as is Judaism (and its phases) and even Islam.)​
The title of Chapter 15 is Exile in England and this might indeed be fully apropos, however we must also consider that if we are talking about a true controlled opposition front that this 'exile' might be for appearance sake, and hence the term that I frequently employ for numerous similar historical circumstances, the Hidden Resort (else "Show us the Beefcake"). This to serve as a "limited hang-out" in case some otherwise unwitting party, or political enemy, came to discover the existence of the exiled person(s) being held in relative comfort (as appears the very unique case at Dewa) and prestige.

Ellis' theory is that the Romans decided to secretly exile Jesus of Gamala to Dewa, likely agreeing to to so as to satisfy such as Berenice, alleged girlfriend of Titus (and according to Ellis also being Mary Magdalene), but also in the course of doing so that a living Jesus, well kept, thus ensuring peace with the remnants of the Galilean faction ... who will later accede to the emperor's seat .. IMHO as their reward for a huge con job well done for the greater family, the real 'Gentiles' (the noble gens).

Ellis discusses that Jesus is removed to Alexandria, where Vespasian is waiting news of his being able to safely leave for Rome as official emperor, and how it seems obvious that this opportunity is presented to have Vespasian 'cure' the cruci-fiction Jesus as being the blind and crippled man that Josephus records here. Vespasian spits in his eye and the man is cured. Here I must also ask if the Islamic tradition may also play a role, in that Jesus (Isa - Izates) of Gamala was never really on the cross, but rather his twin brother was. And that the twin may have played a role in this fake healing as well. If memory serves me, Apollonius of Tyana was also present at this illustrious 'meeting' in Alexandria.

Ellis goes into some lengths to describe the archaeological situation at Dewa, and that besides the (rather large) unique 'Elliptical Building' near the center of the otherwise typical Roman fortress, was also a related complex of buildings, also unique in comparison to the 'norm'. And that this complex of buildings seemed to serve to hold a small population of persons in seeming (my take) isolation from the Roman legions of the fortress. This complex thus includes a separate (from the legionary barracks) barracks building adjacent to the Elliptical Building, a similarly separate bath structure, and a unique colonnaded courtyard. Supporting the notion that the population of the unique complex was isolated from the fortresses general population was the stone remnants of an inscribed plaque that appears to prescribe such isolation based upon the remaining text that can be discerned.

After all, who would want, or need to appear to want, separate bath (baptismal ritual cleansing) and living facilities, but Jews, nominal or literal?

Ellis speculates that the Jesus (of Gamala) saved from the Kidron Valley cross by Josephus was thus exiled to the Dewa Fortress facility whose construction was obviously approved by Emperor Vespasian. The inscribed lead water pipe discovered there proves the time period. And we must contend with the fact that the Dewa Fortress was on the extreme edge of the Roman Empire at the time, about as far away from the Levant as was possible in terms of the empire's bounds. The fortress itself was also situated in a rather unlikely spot for normal Roman strategic and tactical considerations, the location being rather unapproachable for the random traveler, tradesman, or passersby.

Ellis discusses the Elliptical Building's dimensions (~60 by ~30 meters) and claims that the actual dimensions involved resolve to integer values of the ancient Egyptian Thoth Cubit, rather than the units Romans otherwise used, and did use on the other 'typical' Roman structures of the fortress.

Ellis discusses that the Elliptical Building and the structures of the courtyard were built of fine masonry, as opposed to the typically 'rustic' wood construction of the typical Roman fortress constructions. And that the surrounding wall of the fortress was built of an unusual masonry technique, opus quadratum, rather than typical wood palisades and towers.

The Dewa fortress or at least the unique complex there appears to have been built by the Legio II Adiutrix legion, a special legion assembled by Vespasian. And where did the these Roman 'marines' come from for the most part. Well, not originally from the massive naval port of Ravenna, but uhmm ... Egypt.

Legio secunda adiutrix ("Rescuer Second Legion"), was a legion of the Imperial Roman army founded in AD 70 by the emperor Vespasian (r. 69–79), originally composed of Roman navy marines of the classis Ravennatis.
Ravenna had been used for ship construction and as a naval port at least since the Roman civil wars, but the permanent classis Ravennas was established by Caesar Augustus in 27 BC . It was commanded by a praefectus classis, drawn from the highest ranks of the equestrian class, those earning more than 200,000 sesterces a year, and its mission was to control the Adriatic Sea and perhaps the eastern part of the Mediterranean Sea. As the honorific praetoria, awarded by Vespasian for its support during the civil war of AD 69,[1] suggests, together with the classis Misenensis, it formed the naval counterpart of the Praetorian Guard, a permanent naval force at the emperor's direct disposal.

While Wikipedia says audiutrix means 'rescuer', it also means 'helper' -- or in the theatrical sense, it means 'supporting cast'. The sailors of the classis Ravennas were used to conduct the staged naval battles in Vespasian's Colosseum. (BTW, the Colosseum is also a somewhat unique elliptical structure, albeit it is not of a vesica piscis form as it uses multiple radiuses instead of single radius arcs.)

So now we have a special legion formed from a naval flotilla that served at the personal discretion of the emperor himself. How convenient? And then one wonders what the nature of these 'Egyptians' are and the relationship of them to the man they seem to be protecting, who seems to have the cryptic appellation of 'the Egyptian'. Let's remember that at this time, such as Alexandria is heavily populated by Greeks, Jews, and Romans, as well as Egyptians. Philo lived in Alexandria and his nephew was a Roman general fighting in the Jewish War ... for the Flavians.

As Ellis relates, this legion was later relocated to Pannonia, to a city known as Dewa (Deva, Romania), which some claim the name derived from the fortress in Chester. Over a hundred years later, this legion would support the rise of Septimus Severus (the Syrian) to ascend to the emperorship, who had served with them, in Pannonia. Interestingly, Flavio Barbiero (in his Secret Society of Moses) claims that Pannonia was long a stronghold of the later Roman elites that used the name Flavian, as at least an honorific as did Constantine himself. Barbiero discusses this in relationship to the rise of the Roman Cult of Mithra, and of which I claim that such as Flavia Domitilla form a bridge from Mithra to Christianity and Chrestianity as witnessed by her sarcophagus at least.

It's interesting to note too that one of the known ship names assigned to the classis Ravenna was the trireme Castor, and it thus seems certain that their was a Pollux as well, albeit these names are not combined for one ship as ascribed for Paul's trip from Malta to Rome. However, such as a naval trireme seems more of a likely vessel to transport detained priests from Palestine to Rome for an audience with Nero (in the narrative of Josephus at least).

Ellis discusses that it seems that after the time accorded to the death of his Jesus, that the Elliptical Building is abandoned and literally trashed. Archaeologists claim the circumstances are evidence that the construction was never completed, but Ellis makes an argument that it was completed. But who knows why it was abandoned, perhaps beyond no longer being needed as leverage against the 'Galilean' - Syrians? In any case, about 120 years later, the Severan emperor (of Rome), Elagabalus (most likely according to Ellis) has the structure rebuilt. Elagabalus is famous for his fixation with a sacred stone, evoking such as the Omphalos of Delphi or the Ben-ben stone of Heliopolis Egypt, or the stone of Jacob.

As such, Ellis wonders whether or not Elagabalus' stone ended up in the Dewa reconstruction.
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Part 13:

I'm going to digress somewhat from the thread topic here, but as this relates to Ellis's larger thesis (of Egyptian origins of Judaism) throughout his books, I'm going to discuss this business here, because I found it via Ellis, and that this is the distant (in time) source of the claim that Jesus and such were 'Egyptians'. And that it is a revelation of the globalist playbook, as was the revelation of Genesis 47 regarding the enslavement of free men into serfs. In both cases we see environmental issues being capitalized upon, as well.

I came across the follow in Isaiah 19 after watching an interview with Ellis (see at bottom of this post) regarding David and Solomon, and he mentioned an obscure episode where some Jewish priests had fled Jerusalem and set up a second temple in Egypt, at Leontopolis. In this discussion he also mentioned that the term Zion is the same as 'Zoan' mentioned in several places in the OT. Most Bible translations use the name Zoan, including the Hebrew (however, I'm not sure about the earlier Masoretic text). But if one looks at Septuagint, one finds that instead of Zoan, the name Tanis is used (in all the verses I've looked at so far.


This is important, because as Ellis has demonstrated in his prior books, David and Solomon were actually Tanitic pharaohs - at the precise time accorded for David and Solomon in the Bible. And, what is ascribed to David and Solomon are only really possible if they were .... Egyptian pharaohs (under encrypted names, as is the case for their entire parallel lineages).

Similarly, the term 'Lord of hosts' is frequently used to disguise Lord Sabaoth, who links us to all the Sab... peoples that we're interested in, from Harran to Sheba of the famous Queen of Sheba (who Ellis discusses in the interview as well).

As with the Mosaic laws, we are in the domain of inversions, and thus in this case, 'Zion' seems to be under attack, but under the globalist POV, it's all for the greater cause. In the end, Assyria, Egypt, and Israel will be one happy unity, at least for a time. Note in verse 13 that it is talking about "the tribes", but these are of Israel, indictaing that some incomplete contextual inversion was made here. In other words, in reality, the princes of Zion, imposed the changes, probably in pursuit of the final conversions to monotheism within Canaan.

The term used for "the tribes" is šə-ḇā-ṭe-hā, שְׁבָטֶֽיהָ׃

It variously means scepter or rod, or a shepherd's club. Thus we know that when the Lord (Sabaoth) uses such as the Egyptians as an "iron rod" against the wayward Israelites or vice-versa, we know where this metaphor comes from. It also importantly means "branch or "offshoot", and thus significant to the Graft onto the Root of Jesse in Romans 11. The graft was of the wild branch of the Sabine Romans back onto the domesticated (Egypto-Judaic) root of Jesse (father of David).

Isaiah 19:

1The burden of Egypt. Behold, the LORD rideth upon a swift cloud, and shall come into Egypt: and the idols of Egypt shall be moved at his presence, and the heart of Egypt shall melt in the midst of it. 2And I will set the Egyptians against the Egyptians: and they shall fight every one against his brother, and every one against his neighbour; city against city, and kingdom against kingdom. 3And the spirit of Egypt shall fail in the midst thereof; and I will destroy the counsel thereof: and they shall seek to the idols, and to the charmers, and to them that have familiar spirits, and to the wizards. 4And the Egyptians will I give over into the hand of a cruel lord; and a fierce king shall rule over them, saith the Lord, the LORD of hosts. 5And the waters shall fail from the sea, and the river shall be wasted and dried up. 6And they shall turn the rivers far away; and the brooks of defence shall be emptied and dried up: the reeds and flags shall wither. 7The paper reeds by the brooks, by the mouth of the brooks, and every thing sown by the brooks, shall wither, be driven away, and be no more. 8The fishers also shall mourn, and all they that cast angle into the brooks shall lament, and they that spread nets upon the waters shall languish. 9Moreover they that work in fine flax, and they that weave networks, shall be confounded. 10And they shall be broken in the purposes thereof, all that make sluices and ponds for fish. 11Surely the princes of Zoan are fools, the counsel of the wise counsellers of Pharaoh is become brutish: how say ye unto Pharaoh, I am the son of the wise, the son of ancient kings? 12Where are they? where are thy wise men? and let them tell thee now, and let them know what the LORD of hosts hath purposed upon Egypt. 13The princes of Zoan are become fools, the princes of Noph are deceived; they have also seduced Egypt, even they that are the stay of the tribes thereof. 14The LORD hath mingled a perverse spirit in the midst thereof: and they have caused Egypt to err in every work thereof, as a drunken man staggereth in his vomit. 15Neither shall there be any work for Egypt, which the head or tail, branch or rush, may do.
Blessing to Egypt, Assyria, Israel
16In that day shall Egypt be like unto women: and it shall be afraid and fear because of the shaking of the hand of the LORD of hosts, which he shaketh over it. 17And the land of Judah shall be a terror unto Egypt, every one that maketh mention thereof shall be afraid in himself, because of the counsel of the LORD of hosts, which he hath determined against it. 18In that day shall five cities in the land of Egypt speak the language of Canaan, and swear to the LORD of hosts ; one shall be called, The city of destruction. 19In that day shall there be an altar to the LORD in the midst of the land of Egypt, and a pillar at the border thereof to the LORD. 20And it shall be for a sign and for a witness unto the LORD of hosts in the land of Egypt: for they shall cry unto the LORD because of the oppressors, and he shall send them a saviour, and a great one, and he shall deliver them. 21And the LORD shall be known to Egypt, and the Egyptians shall know the LORD in that day, and shall do sacrifice and oblation; yea, they shall vow a vow unto the LORD, and perform it. 22And the LORD shall smite Egypt: he shall smite and heal it: and they shall return even to the LORD, and he shall be intreated of them, and shall heal them. 23In that day shall there be a highway out of Egypt to Assyria, and the Assyrian shall come into Egypt, and the Egyptian into Assyria, and the Egyptians shall serve with the Assyrians. 24In that day shall Israel be the third with Egypt and with Assyria, even a blessing in the midst of the land: 25Whom the LORD of hosts shall bless, saying, Blessed be Egypt my people, and Assyria the work of my hands, and Israel mine inheritance.

Here is the Ellis interview:

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as Ellis has demonstrated in his prior books, David and Solomon were Tanitic pharaohs - at the precise time accorded for David and Solomon.

Ellis often makes these claims that two or more historic characters, traditionally considered to be different people, are in fact one and the same. And he might very well be correct in those claims, because the coincidences are quite remarkable. But we also have to keep in mind, that it's possible that the similarities might be typological or literary. Or, that one historical character could be deliberately emulating another. Or even that strange coincidences can happen.
If two names equal one person, could it be we are seeing reassigned originals taking on a new persona? A few years ago I helped push the idea at the blog Piece of Mindful that the murdered under suspicious circumstances 60's rocker Bobby Fuller was re-imagined later as the pundit Bill O'Reilly. There were other matches promoted there but what I took from these exercises is that a public figure, once his/her assignment is completed, "dies" and is sent off to a hidden resort* and after a time returns as someone else, equally synthetic, but a seasoned liar and lifetime actor born into the role(s).
I suspect that these actors are of the bloodlines but planned for bastards**, trained to take the public stage (and crowd out outsiders with actual talent) in order for the families to control the culture from stem to stern without the mainline blood being seen. These shadowed bloods are the hidden hands behind the illegitimate facades.
As for resorts, in recent times I've noticed that horse ranches have figured into some of the post "death" narratives. There is a ranch connecting Sharon Tate and Susan Atkins of Manson infamy. Jackie and Ari owned a horse ranch in New Jersey, which would be a good place to stash various dead Kennedys while snorkel crews work Martha's Vineyard in a futile search for a scoop. Jim Morrison was rumored to be ensconced at a ranch in Oregon at one time.
* My best guess for a hidden resort, at least during the carnage of the 60's/70's, was Santa Catarina on the southeast coast of Brazil. German dominated and extremely well off economically, it tied in with Janis Joplin's late romp to the area just before she "OD'd".
** The secret offspring, Thermusa, of Caesar and Cleopatra comes to mind as a planned covert operation of a sort.