From Chrest to Christ

[Sgt Pepper]

As far as I know, Rick is the only person on the planet who can do the work he's doing. From time to time, he comes up with insights that I treasure. Every day that he's still working on these questions, is a gift.

That sucks. Who's going to carry on the research? Perhaps @Jerry Russell should guest on MythVision to discuss @Richard Stanley 's work? I think they'd run with it and talk to other guests about it.

 

[Richard Stanley]

Did you get out the wrong side of the bed this morning? Sorry to have wasted 5 minutes of the rest of your life.
I have done some reading on Postflavianism, but far from requiring "minimal" reading to be understood, it appears there is a limitless reading list appended to the bible to explain away every little offensive phrase you can find.

So you are saying that we should have done less work to challenge your generations upon generations of circular reasoning? Are you saying that if your parents had raised you to think that Popular Mechanics was the true Word of 'God' that you'd yet be doing the same thing. Other than PM's handling of 9/11 what can be gainsayed regarding this scripture? (I have no idea what they say about Climate Change BTW, so let's ignore that too for sake of this conversation.)

I appreciate that you, like many others, have arrived here because of (now) peripheral matters (to me at least), like 9/11 in your case, and thus are surprised to find oneself in a different world than expected. Unfortunately, I spend far too much time having to wrangle with various people's odd takes. In your case you are trying search the heavens for means to justify your generations of superstitions in amalgamated and distilled paganism. These efforts are, of course, demonstration of a lack of faith, as no justification should be needed by a true adherent. To this extent, good for you!!!

In any case, I don't do much commenting on other sites these days, but when I did, I attempted to understand what the respective site was about first.

It seems that as far as your understanding of Christianity goes, you are fiercely defending the papal claim to be the ancient, true and only repository of authority regarding biblical interpretation. That, to me, is a desperately erroneous idea. Christianity is the fulfilment of the Hebrew faith, not an invention of Rome.

Sadly, yes. But take (dark) heart, as it seems that Josephus is really saying that your real Jesus was really in on the Roman plan, as his Galilean Sect was a controlled opposition to facilitate the synthesis of the New Order, till the end of the age, hence Alpha and Omega.

I am very familiar with the book of Ezekiel. Do you have a particular passage in mind?

See this and the link within (of which the latter I do not agree with the particular interpretation, but at least the basis): https://postflaviana.org/community/index.php?threads/666-888-and-the-solar-logos.1958/post-6643

And BTW, such as 666 and 888 are highly significant numbers in the Pythagorean solar Sacred Geometry (as is 153 fishies).

Where I come from, a "PK" is a "preacher's kid". Is this what you are saying? There are quite a few of those in my extended family, but fortunately, as they were not raised in modern churches, they have a less jaundiced opinion than they otherwise might.

You really meant "unfortunately". You are welcome.

When I was attending Sunday School, in that 'modern church', the Bible stories were typically cherry-picked as in all other churches. All, I could think of at the time was that the cartoons on TV made more sense. But most people, once told by someone trusted that most anything is sacred will believe that it is true. This is why there are so many disparate world cultures, and even so many disparate sects of genocidal Abrahamic religions.

Ironically, 'modern' church skepticism was given its impetus by the pious literalist fervor of what became the German School to prove that the Bible was historical. The result forced many to adopt their metaphorical approach. But not to worry, the 'liberal' denominational churches are being deliberately folded back into the Mother Church, itself tottering in preparation for the next revelation. else, why would such be needed in the first place?

Oh, yes, there are today some various stubborn adherents of the old Way, just as 2,000 years prior. Hence:

"Closed minded and stiffnecked" is an unwarranted judgement don't you think? I'm old enough to have formed opinions based on considerable study and life experience, as are you, and it is not surprising that either of us should have the courage of our convictions when it comes to explaining them. I much prefer that someone state his position clearly, whether or not it differs from mine. You acknowledge that PFism is very much in the minority, so much so that I have only heard of it since encountering Jerry recently. So I'm still trying to make sense of it. It flies in the face of everything I know, and I'm having trouble finding its raison d'etre.

No, it was warranted. No different than the stiff-necked freedom hating freedom lovers of American Christian Evangelicalism. These are the Latter Day Zealots whom such as Trump will lead over the figurative cliffs of Gadara (read Atwill's Caesar's Messiah to appreciate).

Richard, you need to take responsibility for managing your time. If answering forum questions is too much of a distraction from your research, or if it detracts from your zen calm state of mind, there's no obligation for you to reply. But if you do participate in discussion, please try to be polite.

As always. However, I do not like my silence to be taken as assent, especially on the subjects most important to me.

If indeed you've read this, I'd say you've met the basic prerequisites for an informed New Testament discussion. Rick, would you agree?

Yes, it's a good start.

Here we disagree [w/ Ruby -rs]. The New Testament is written in Greek, not Hebrew. It is Roman and Hellenistic in its outlook. To the extent that it draws on Judaism, it is for the purpose of creating a religious syncretism. It's analogous to a corporate merger & acquisition process. Or, you might say that Rome was devouring the Hebrew religion and digesting it.

The Christian Church was one and the same as the Roman Catholic Church, from its origin in the 1st century AD all the way until the Protestant reformation. Your view that modern Protestant interpretations are on the same footing as ancient Catholic interpretations, is historical revisionism.

And in many places the referenced OT 'prophecies' were butchered by the NT author(s) (for theological expediency), but no mind to the faithful.

 

[Richard Stanley]

The following is definitive proof of my assertion on this thread about the two thieves on the cross representing Castor and Pollux. In this case, also being James and John, sons of Zebedee, (the sons of thunder). Zeus, of course, was the god of thunder.

The following is Part 9A of a longer series discussing the typology of the Homeric Odyssey found within gMark (based upon Dennis MacDonald's work). But, as I have stated, this is more that typical typology, but rather we see the savior of the new age, at his Alpha, replacing his predecessor twin saviors at their Omega point.

 

[Richard Stanley]

Edited 9/28/19

I'm not sure if John Bartram discussed, similarly to the Codex Sinaiticus (in 3 verses), that the oldest extant manuscript of Tacitus' Annuls had the Chrestian 'e' changed to an 'i', via an identical erasure:


From Excavating the Empty Tomb Part 15D:


Note the odd wide gap after the 'i'. The same below under UV lighting:




The below is a 17th century manuscript showing the Testimonium Flavinium with 'Chrestians':



At just after 7 minutes into the video it states:

Kenneth Humphries states on his website jesusneverexisted.com/: "the truth may be that there was an original gnostic cult following a personified virtue, "Jesus Chrestos", Jesus the Good. Consequently they were called Chrestians, an appellation which seems to have attached itself at an early date to the sectarians of the heretic Marcion. Support for this possibility comes from the earliest known 'Christian' inscription found in the 19th century on a Marcionite church at Deir Ali, three miles south of Damascus, dated to around 318 CE. The inscription reads "the meetinghouse of the Marcionists in the village of Lebaba of the Lord and Savior Jesus the Good", and the actual Greek word in the inscription is Chrestos, not Christos.​

Based upon my Cleopatra to Christ thread, this non-existent Jesus may be the real King Abgarus, aka Izates, of Edessa, and the cult likely being the gnostic 'Nazarenes', as elaborated by Ralph Ellis. These latter may be one and the same as the Nazoreans, possibly the Nazarenes (or Naassenes?) being the esoteric inner core of the Nazoreans. These Naassenes seem to be quite ecumenical in pulling from the canonic gospels, the Pauline corpus, the OT, and the pagan gentile corpus, of which we might expect that the foundations of 'Chrestianity' would consist of before the later 'Christian' Church redactions.

Note that this church in Syria (from Humphries' excerpt) is in the middle of the territory that Ellis describes as being from Edessa to Jerusalem for this person. This is also rather consistent with such as the Mandaeans (Sabean) origins in the region of Edessa / Harran and their presence in Jerusalem at the foundation period.

As I have speculated for this 'Jesus' and his family really being a controlled opposition, we have the interesting assertion of John Bartram that the Flavians and friends were covert Chrestians. This is no big deal here, with Ellis demonstrating that this Edessan Jesus would have been a Platonized, Hellenized, Egypto-Jew, as was Philo of Alexandria. And, thus we have a reason why the Flavians would send critical persons to their Hidden Resort, as the Dewa Victrix fortress, that would otherwise be executed publically.

And thus the case that the Jewish War was a huge psyop gets stronger. Here with any otherwise normative, nationalist Jews, having their apocalyptic worldviews exploited, just as is happening today with American Evangelicals and Dominionists.

 

[Richard Stanley]

Part of this thread has been attempting to show the true relationship of Mithraism to nascent Christianity. As such, the following video is a discussion with Jason Reza Jorjani, where he goes much further than I have, in several aspects.

Similar to Franz Cumont, JRJ takes the position that the late Rome cult of Mithra was much more than an expedient adaption of the 'prior' Persian Mithra religion, but rather that it was a purposeful vector from (Indo-European) Parthian Persia into (Indo-European) Rome. Of course, and if true, this places yet another interesting twist on the parallel From Cleopatra to Christ thread, where King Abgarus of Edessa (aka Jesus the Nazarene) has the royal bloodlines of Egypt, Rome, and Parthia.

As JRJ has it, Roman Catholicism is mostly Mithraism in thin disguise. But then what of the Judaic gloss found throughout the NT? No worry, because post-Exilic Judaism was heavily remade by the influence of the Persians with such as Cyrus, Ezra and Nehemiah. Also, see Mike MaGee's How Persia Created Judaism, that is, after the earlier Egyptian period.

JRJ provides some interesting insights into the true relationship of Mithraism to Persian Zoroastrianism, and how such as Cyrus may have been more of an adept of Mithra than Zoroaster.

In JRJ's discussio of various esoteric aspects, he mentions the Mithraic killing of the bull, which while this has its obvious allusion to the end of the age of Taurus, I realized that it can also be seen as alluding to the moral inversion that took place between Hindu India and the 'Iranian's Persians. This where the bull and cow is sacred to the Hindus. As I have discussed before, the two systems are morally inverted with the respective status of the Devas and the Asura/Ahuras. The Mosaic cultural inversion can thus be seen as an echo of that.

This all seems rather plausible, however, I would still take issue with the Roman era cult as being 'subversive' to the Roman order per se. It may indeed be seen as subversive to the old cultural order, but as far as I am concerned have 420 mithaeums operating throughout the empire, mostly near military establishments and catering to Roman officer corps, it was under the imperial imprimatur.

JRJ also provides a moral and theological discussion that might well have been appreciated by Saussey.

 

[Seeker]

Yes, I have read (long before I heard of "The Secret Society of Moses" by Flavio Barbiero) that Constantine the Great was actually sympathetic to Mithraism, and was trying to integrate it within "Christianity" as a state religion. Since he was a military man this seems highly probable to me. If Barbiero is correct, then perhaps the Josephus/priestly version of "Mithraism" was indeed "subversive" to the old cultural order, after the fall of Jerusalem in AD 70.
"Resist not evil", and trying to integrate evil with good, does seem like a "Rulers of Evil" philosophy that would have been appreciated by Tupper Saussy, going by his statements in the latter part of that book, and Dr. Jorjani also makes the point that this theme was carried on by the later Gnostics and the Rosicrucians. Ironically, I have read that the present AMORC version of Rosicrucianism, at least at one time, believed that Jesus was the reincarnation of Zoroaster. If this was known to Josephus and his team of writers, it may be a reason why they made Jesus espouse Mithraic beliefs to integrate into their new Roman religion, representing the changing of the times. In his Sermon on the Mount, Jesus prefaces several of his remarks, including the exhortation to "resist not evil", with "ye have heard it hath been said", or variations of that phrase, could Jesus now be espousing the Mithraic viewpoint for Josephus and the New Roman Order?

 

[Jerry Russell]

Jason Reza Jorjani became famous (or infamous) as an alt-right figure. But since 2017 he's reportedly renounced all that, and this year he's endorsing Tulsi Gabbard's presidential candidacy. More about his alt-right days here:

https://www.newsweek.com/alt-right-chief-boasts-secret-white-house-links-undercover-activist-668149

An associate of alt-right provocateur Richard Spencer, Jorjani is the co-founder of the AltRight Corporation which seeks to unify European and U.S. alt-right enterprises, and former editor-in-chief of Arktos Media, the alt-right's publishing wing.​

​

In the wake of Trump's November victory, Jorjani spoke at a notorious rally held by Spencer in Washington D.C. where supporters raised their arms in Nazi salutes and declared "hail Trump."​

​

Jorjani has been accused of racism and anti-Semitism, and at the meeting reportedly claimed that bank notes would soon be "adorned with images of Hitler." Jorjani denies accusations of racism.​

​

At the meeting, Jorjani boasted of his ties to Breitbart chief and former White House chief strategist Steve Bannon.​

​

In the Hope not Hate report, Hermansson writes about meeting Jorjani: "I ask about AltRight Corporation and its aims and objectives and he explains how it is a "government in waiting." But then, out of nowhere, as though it was no big deal, he says: "We had connections in the Trump administration, we were going to do things!"​

​

"I lean forward, praying that the camera I have hidden in one of my shirt buttons captured what he had just said. I can hardly believe it.​

​

"In this small Irish bar in Manhattan, I am sat opposite one of the most prominent alt-right figures in the world—from the extreme racial nationalist end of the movement—as he explains to me that he was "the link man" with the Trump administration via Steve Bannon, former head of Breitbart News Network and, until recently, Trump's chief strategist."​

​

Speaking to the New York Times, Jorjani said that by "connections," he meant he had spoken with people with a direct line to President Trump. He did not disclose their names. He said that the ousting of former national security adviser Michael Flynn in February and Steve Bannon in August spelt the end of the alt-right's campaign to carve out influence in the White House.​

​

Jorjani is a very prolific author, having published four books plus an anthology of essays since 2016. The blurb for his 2017 book "World State of Emergency" says:

Apocalypse. In its original Greek sense, the word means “revelation.” Over the course of the next several decades, within the lifespan of a single generation, certain convergent advancements in technology will reveal something profound about human existence. Biotechnology, robotics, virtual reality, and the need to mine our Moon for energy past peak oil production, will converge in mutually reinforcing ways that shatter the fundamental framework of our societies.​

​

It is not a question of incremental change. The technological apocalypse that we are entering is a Singularity that will bring about a qualitative transformation in our way of being. Modern socio-political systems such as universal human rights and liberal democracy are woefully inadequate for dealing with the challenges posed by these developments. The technological apocalypse represents a world state of emergency, which is my concept for a state of emergency of global scope that also demands the establishment of a world state.​

​

An analysis of the internal incoherence of both universal human rights and liberal democracy, especially in light of the societal and geopolitical implications of these technologies, reveals that they are not proper political concepts for grounding this world state. Rather, the planetary emergency calls for worldwide socio-political unification on the basis of a deeply rooted tradition with maximal evolutionary potential. This living heritage that is to form the ethos or constitutional order of the world state is the Aryan or Indo-European tradition shared by the majority of Earth’s great nations — from Europe and the Americas, to Eurasia, Greater Iran, Hindu India, and the Buddhist East.​

Since the book dates back to Jorjani's alt-right days, I don't know whether he's renounced any aspect of this. Also, it might only be peripherally relevant to Jorjani's views of Mithraism. If so, and if there's going to be more discussion about Jorjani, this should probably be moved to a new thread. And having said all this, I'm going to go watch the video now

 

[Jerry Russell]

About 2 minutes in, Jorjani says:

"...in the Holy Communion the wafers are based on loaves of bread that were inscribed by a cross in the Mithraic communion ceremony that was performed in subterranean Mithraic temples."​

​

How does he know that?? He also claims that the Catholic ritual of painting a cross on one's forehead with ashes, is also Mithraic.

I thought that the rituals of Mithraic temples had been secret, and are now unknown.

 

[Richard Stanley]

Yes, I have read (long before I heard of "The Secret Society of Moses" by Flavio Barbiero) that Constantine the Great was actually sympathetic to Mithraism, and was trying to integrate it within "Christianity" as a state religion. Since he was a military man this seems highly probable to me. If Barbiero is correct, then perhaps the Josephus/priestly version of "Mithraism" was indeed "subversive" to the old cultural order, after the fall of Jerusalem in AD 70.

All elite human actions such as this should be seen as expected under the rubric of "the evolution of God" (and as the thesis of Robert Wright's book by that name suggests), and this includes the periodic merger of religions, which by nature are not undertakings that the cultural and nationalist chauvinists of the world undertake happily. Thus the covert actions of various secret societies.

Jorjani mentioned the symbolism of the Skull and Crossbones (best known historically for pirates and the 'Skull and Bones Society' of Yale) as also pointing to the crossing of the equinoxes, which implies precessional, zodiacal associations. And for which I had made the same claim for certain depictions of the Chi-Rho. Jorjani's mention of this made me see that the skull and crossbone is indeed a veiled Chi-Rho ... if a (polar) spine can be imagined running down from the skull.

And, .... all of this is consistent with Julius Caesar's early associations with the pirates of Cilicia (the region of Paul's Tarsus - a huge cult center of Mithraism) and his homosexual dalliance with Cilicia's King Mithradates. The latter being the scuttlebutt of comments about the 'Mithraic rites of Yale's Skull and Bones Society.

Jorjani is a very prolific author, having published four books plus an anthology of essays since 2016. The blurb for his 2017 book "World State of Emergency" says:

"An analysis of the internal incoherence of both universal human rights and liberal democracy, especially in light of the societal and geopolitical implications of these technologies, reveals that they are not proper political concepts for grounding this world state. Rather, the planetary emergency calls for worldwide socio-political unification on the basis of a deeply rooted tradition with maximal evolutionary potential."

This advocacy for an Aryan led globalism seems a good thread that covertly links such as Bannon to the Vatican, and helps further reveal Trump as their bad boy agent of Chaos, to destroy liberal democracy.

How does he know that?? He also claims that the Catholic ritual of painting a cross on one's forehead with ashes, is also Mithraic.

I thought that the rituals of Mithraic temples had been secret, and are now unknown.

Looks like you're gonna have to order some more new books.

 

[Seeker]

and his homosexual dalliance with Cilicia's King Mithradates.

I do not wish to nitpick, but Julius Caesar's "dalliance" was with King Nicomedes of Bithynia, in NW Asia Minor, although he did serve under Servilius Isauricus in Cilicia.

 

[Seeker]

Good question. As the following link discusses, Draco is part of the Hercules mythos - which his 12 labors are clearly zodiacal in nature. Draco guards the golden apples, which are probably allusions to the Cosmic Tree whose trunk is sometimes referred to as the Axis Mundi. And in the Hercules 'cycle' the dragon, Ladon, is killed. But Jerry will require more than this.

http://www.constellation-guide.com/constellation-list/draco-constellation/

Don't know if this helps, but if Jesus was truly the son of Panthera Ptolemy of Mauretania, then he was the male line Berber grandson of Juba II, King of Mauretania, who claimed descent from Hercules, who in turn was descended in the female line from Danaus. One of the ancient Berber gods was "Draco", and the apple tree he guarded was on Mt. Atlas, named for Atlas, another Berber god, with the daughters of Atlas, the Hesperides, also guarding it. So if the Antichrist was born on Sept. 23, 2017, and is descended from the Berber Jesus, he also descends from Hercules who killed the Berber god Draco and from the Antichrist Tribe of Dan too, with Mary Magdalene, the wife of Jesus, a High Priestess of Dan, according to Nicholas de Vere.

 

[Richard Stanley]

This is what happens when your wick burns short. I'll have to start checking my comments closer. For some reason I thought the episode of the pirates was related to his dalliance with the king.

In any case, Plutarch said in Vita Pompeii that the Cilician pirates were Mithraists. And supposedly JC came back after his ransom and crucified them, because they didn't ask enough for the ransom. And oddly, Pompey seemed to show a lot of Caesarian clemency towards the pirates.

 

[Seeker]

assassinations having been faked, and that they were sent to what I like to call the Hidden Resort. I allege the same case for Julius Caesar

Charles N. Pope, in his "Domain of Man" site, alleges the very same thing about Caesar, that his assassination was faked and he became the "Great King" in the East afterwards, truly a more deserving fate for this "god on earth". I do not worship him, but I have no trouble believing that this man could have had a cult/religion dedicated to him, or an altered form of him, right up to the present day.

 

[Seeker]

This is what happens when your wick burns short. I'll have to start checking my comments closer. For some reason I thought the episode of the pirates was related to his dalliance with the king.

In any case, Plutarch said in Vita Pompeii that the Cilician pirates were Mithraists. And supposedly JC came back after his ransom and crucified them, because they didn't ask enough for the ransom. And oddly, Pompey seemed to show a lot of Caesarian clemency towards the pirates.

You do a lot of work, and it was only a minor misidentification, but I felt that I ought to say something before it was repeated as fact. From what I can gather, the supposed "dalliance" of Caesar came first in Bithynia with King Nicomedes, then later on he served in the Roman army stationed in Cilicia, several years after he left the army he was captured by the pirates, and told them that he would crucify them when the ransom (which he told them to raise the price of) was paid, which they treated as a joke, unfortunately for them. Strangely enough, one of Pompey's sons later became a "pirate", opposing Caesar's grandnephew and adopted son Octavian, when he was a Triumvir.

 

[Seeker]

I only need to keep on the equinox date on September 23 to find candidate years.

Actually, the Autumnal Equinox, which is coming upon us again shortly, is a very significant time of year. To give some examples, Roman Emperor Augustus Caesar was born on September 23, 63 BC, the "son" of the Divine Julius Caesar, I wonder if there were signs in the heavens then? According to some researchers, Jesus is believed to have really been born around autumn in September, at the Feast of Trumpets (Rosh Hoshanah), but he would still have been conceived in December, his "official" birth month, though Ralph Ellis has apparently changed the approximate year. This Rosh Hoshanah is also the Jewish New Year, with the world believed by the Jews to have been created in 3761 BC., and Adam and Eve created on this High Holy Day. Archbishop Ussher calculated the Creation of the World at the Autumnal Equinox in 4004 BC, which he calculated at that time would have occurred on October 23, but would now be Sept. 21. From the conclusion of "The Thing" (1951): "Watch the skies. Everywhere. Keep looking. Keep watching the skies", a warning to Postflavians and everyone else.

 

[Richard Stanley]

Supposedly the Thing was referred to as a "super carrot". Could this be an hilarious allusion to 'carrot-tops'?

 

[Seeker]

Also, speaking of auspicious dates, Pope Francis was born on December 17, the start of Saturnalia, and if he knew of the birth of a "Savior" on Sept. 23, 2017, was it meant for him to usher in the reign of "Saturn" for a "Golden Age" in the future? The birthday of Prince William is on the Summer Solstice, but predictions of him becoming the Antichrist in 2015, when he turned 33, the years of Christ, obviously failed. However, the son of Archduke Karl, the Head of the House of Habsburg-Lorraine, named Ferdinand Zvonimir, was also born on the Summer Solstice, but in 1997. If one believes in the traditional 4 BC birth year of Jesus, then he was born exactly 2000 years after him, but the date would be much closer to the traditional feast day of John the Baptist, the forerunner and "cousin" of Jesus.
His grandfather was Otto von Habsburg, the pretender Emperor of Austria and early proponent of European integration, who would have been the successor to the Roman Emperors, and whose own father, the last Emperor Blessed Karl of Austria, was beatified by Saint Pope John Paul II "the Great" in 2004. Besides a long list of Emperors, this line also descends from Pope Paul III, who officially recognized the Jesuit Order in 1540 (there is a story that he possessed the Philosopher's Stone and still lives), and even Saint Francis Borgia, 3rd Superior General of the Jesuits and great-grandson of Pope Alexander VI. Can't get much more "real player" than this family!

 

[Richard Stanley]

Also, speaking of auspicious dates, Pope Francis was born on December 17, the start of Saturnalia, and if he knew of the birth of a "Savior" on Sept. 23, 2017, was it meant for him to usher in the reign of "Saturn" for a "Golden Age" in the future?

There is also the Last Pope Prophecy which I mention in regard to The Messiah Matrix below:

https://postflaviana.org/community/index.php?threads/may-13-the-messiah-matrix-augustus-and-christian-origins.1719/post-5101

 

[Seeker]

Yes, the "Prophecy of the Popes" by St. Malachy, and ironically, a former Jesuit named Malachi Martin in our own time warned of the infiltration of the Roman Catholic Church by "secret satanic Illuminati- Masonic influences", which he claimed took over the Church in a diabolical ceremony on June 29, 1963, the Feast of St. Peter and Paul, near the summer solstice. This was the year that Pope John XXIII and President Kennedy both left the scene. Malachi Martin himself died as the result of a "fall" in his home in 1999, before the 21st century could begin.

 

[Seeker]

Jorjani mentioned the symbolism of the Skull and Crossbones (best known historically for pirates and the 'Skull and Bones Society' of Yale) as also pointing to the crossing of the equinoxes, which implies precessional, zodiacal associations. And for which I had made the same claim for certain depictions of the Chi-Rho. Jorjani's mention of this made me see that the skull and crossbone is indeed a veiled Chi-Rho ... if a (polar) spine can be imagined running down from the skull.

It is maintained by some Habsburg purists that because Otto von Habsburg officially relinquished all claims to the Austrian throne in 1961, in order to reenter Austria, that the succession passed to his brother Robert (married to Princess Margherita of the House of Savoy, whose grandfather was first cousin to King Victor Emmanuel III of Italy). Thus, the true heir to the throne today would be Robert's son Prince Lorenz of Belgium, born on the eve of Saturnalia and the brother-in-law of King Philippe of the Belgians. The ancestry of the wife of Prince Lorenz, Princess Astrid of Belgium (her mother was born on 9/11 in 1937) includes the Colonna and Orsini families, both claiming to descend from Julius Caesar, besides the Marquis de Lafayette, and her maternal grandfather was the World War I flying ace and a senator under Benito Mussolini, Fulco VIII, Prince Ruffo di Calabria, 6th Duke of Guardia Lombarda, whose personal insignia was the SKULL AND CROSSBONES. https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/9a/Fulco_Ruffo_di_Calabria.jpg. His World War I planes had this insignia painted on the fuselage. The eldest son of Prince Lorenz of Belgium, Prince Amedeo of Belgium (educated at the Jesuit school St John Berchmans College in Brussels), who also has this maternal ancestry, just recently had a son born to him, Archduke Maximilian, born Sept. 6, 2019, the 262nd anniversary of the birth of his ancestor, the Marquis de Lafayette, one of whose ancestors, according to legend, acquired the "Crown of Thorns" during the Sixth Crusade.