Fixing Democracy

Richard Stanley

Well-Known Member
I'm not sure how to interpret the last two comments.

In any case, I just finished watching an interview about a new book claiming that the reason infrastructure projects are not getting off the ground anymore is that progressives, over time, have over-corrected the bureaucratic system of checks and balances against endemic corruption, and therefore too many agencies and other interests have veto paralyzing powers. This whether there is now an Obama or a Trump in power at the top.

Ironically, in an attempt to reign in political machines, corporate interests and government power, the pendulum of government power was swung too far in the opposite direction.

...
The roadblocks that prevent projects like Penn Station from quick completion were erected after a quiet but enormously consequential shift in progressive thinking—a transformation that began in the 1960s and still reverberates today. For the previous century, reformers ranging from Teddy Roosevelt to Woodrow Wilson had sought to combat the pernicious influence of political machines and corporate trusts by consolidating public power in the hands of expert technocrats, men (and, to be clear, they were mostly white men) driven to pursue the broader public interest. But by the early 1970s, the old progressive vision had shattered. No single event may have pointed the new way more clearly than the publication, mere months before Richard Nixon’s resignation, of Robert Caro’s The Power Broker: Robert Moses and the Fall of New York.
Caro’s 45-year-old masterpiece, which went on to win the Pulitzer Prize, is often billed as a biography of New York’s most important 20th-century builder, an unelected official who remade the city’s landscape between the mid-1920s and the late 1960s. But the 1,296-page book was also an indictment of government power that has since become a core tenet of progressive thinking. Since the 1970s, even as progressives have championed Big Government, they’ve worked tirelessly to put new checks on its power—to pull it away from imperious technocrats who might use government to bulldoze hapless communities. And it’s that impulse to protect the powerless from the abuse of public power that is most responsible for the morass that is Penn Station. ...

[OT remarks about climate change moved to the appropriate thread... ]
 
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Seeker

Active Member
I'm not sure how to interpret the last two comments.
Please don't mind me, I was just having a "Ulysses" (stream-of-consciousness) moment, equating Space Jesus and Society of Jesus with the same "logo", because I was recalling your mentioning the observatory the Church has out West, where Space Jesus may someday be "observed". This in turn led me to think of Jack Parsons and his "Babalon Working" (his own ritual for the coming of Space Jesus and the New Aeon?), and that many of his posthumous writings were published ("Freedom is a Two-Edged Sword"), with him having his own libertarian and anarchist ideas about "Fixing Democracy". Apparently he was too far ahead of his time (or the Master Schedule?), and "something happened", so his ideas about "freedom" were a "two-edged sword" for him, at any rate.
 

Seeker

Active Member
elites that wield an unofficial and vast network of sub rosa secular and religious organizations, as if an off-the-books transnational corporation. Its leadership akin to the organizations of the Roma, the Travellers and La Cosa Nostra, but you might argue that this implies a capo di tutti capi
I don't know if he is still active, but Craig Oxley of "The Unhived Mind" site seemed to think that it was someone named Pepe Orsini, who was the "Grey Pope", over both the "White Pope" and the "Black Pope". The Orsini family claims to be descended from the Julio-Claudian dynasty of ancient Rome. Personally, I have never seen a scrap of evidence for the existence of this Pepe Orsini, but of course maybe that's the way he wants it.
 

Seeker

Active Member
Oxley appears to connect the Orsinis to the Maximus family and the Ptolemaic dynasty. Cleopatra was of course a member of this dynasty, and if the Orsinis really did descend from the Julio-Claudians, then the obvious combination is Julius Caesar and Cleopatra. The Maximus family descended from the ancient patrician Fabia gens, supposed to be the followers of Remus the twin of Romulus, and descended from Hercules and Evander of Arcadia, who were in Italy a generation before the Trojan War. Evander had known Anchises, the father of Aeneas, the Trojan forefather of Rome, before the Trojan War, and they shared common ancestry with Atlas. All of this, if true, would give the Orsini family impeccable Roman ancestry, with lines branching out to ancient Troy, Greece, and Egypt.
 

Richard Stanley

Well-Known Member
Well, if true, it makes complete sense to me as to how hidden strings are pulled, e.g. how democracies are subverted financially and otherwise. Which is why the electoral process must be radically changed.
 

Seeker

Active Member
Thank You for getting the thread back on track, I was getting carried away with the genealogy of a perhaps nonexistent Pepe Orsini! Your response was quite timely and relevant for our New Year of 2020, with the Presidential nominations and elections later on. With so many Democratic candidates in the field over 70, not to mention the Republican incumbent, it looks as though the Vice Presidential selections may have an extra added significance for the powers that be, not to mention for the rest of us.
 

Seeker

Active Member
Speaking of the election year of 2020, and trying my best to stay on the topic of "Fixing Democracy", has anyone ever read "Take Back Your Government! : A Practical Handbook for the Private Citizen Who Wants Democracy to Work", a 1946 work by Robert A. Heinlein that was not published until 1992 (no one would publish it, perhaps because of its excess candor), when Ross Perot ran independently for President. It is supposed to show you how to join a party and work your way up to influence national elections, or to start your own political party yourself, like Billionaire Ross (perhaps scaled back a little for you, of course). We could start our own Postflaviana Party, even the initials "PP" could reflect our proposed motto of "P--s on Everything!" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Take_Back_Your_Government PS- I would NOT propose yellow as our "primary" (pun intended) color!
 

Richard Stanley

Well-Known Member
There definitely needs to be some real competition for the Republicrats, but I would think that there would be a better name for such, ours being a bit obscure.

But what if we just banned political parties?
 

Richard Stanley

Well-Known Member
Have different kinds of parties? I hate costume parties though.

Parties aren't even part of 'this' Constitution, and I don't think you'd need them if a big process change was implemented, like sortition.
 

Seeker

Active Member
has anyone ever read "Take Back Your Government!
What about "clubs", then, instead of "parties"? The reason I suggested that book in the first place, is because right after New Year's the Republican "Club" where I live, advertised on Facebook for new members to help with the 2020 election. I was thinking of joining up and giving my name as "Josephus Jesuit" (just kidding, of course). At any rate, I don't think that you can get "a big process change" to be implemented in time for the elections this November 3, so you would have to join or form a new party this year, at least, or can you "sort(ition)" it all out in less than 10 months?
 

Richard Stanley

Well-Known Member
No, I didn't read the book. I will have to hope for reincarnation to see anything meaningful develop with creating a real democracy, whether a republic or otherwise, that is, if a certain someone doesn't make the topic moot sooner or later.

What about "clubs", then, instead of "parties"?
You mean partisan clubs? A rome by any other name ...

I like the idea of preventing certain individuals from crystallizing power, and parties tend to entrain people to decide separate issues along party lines, instead of on their merits.

How about 'forums'?
 

Richard Stanley

Well-Known Member
I guess there may be something to an online format forum, as the 'bricks and mortar' forums can have too much parochial influences. Online funding of campaigns are indeed changing the money dynamic in current politics, scaring the beejesus out of the parties.
 
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Seeker

Active Member
Exactly, as I have read elsewhere, the Internet is to us what the Gutenberg printing press was to the 1400's, but it could also turn into the "All-Seeing Eye" of the powers that be, though Jerry seems to think that hasn't happened yet, because of infighting among them, like any other large "corporation" it has factional power struggles.
 

Richard Stanley

Well-Known Member
I believe the Panopticon has been relatively achieved, and it is only becoming more pervasive and intrusive. Apparently the Germans have made a recent move in that direction and the rest of Europe likely to follow.
 

Richard Stanley

Well-Known Member
I thought about placing the following video in our discussion thread on Fascism, since our resident neofascist likes to critique Democracy as a justification for his New Fascism. However, this robust critique of American (fake) Democracy provides a nice summary of the problems with which one can help formulate correctives.

Early on it deals well with the banal argument regarding Democracy versus Republic, which interestingly can be logically extended to the superficial 'differences' between the two eponymous parties of our oligarchical duopoly.

I think my only problem with the thesis is that IMO this is the way the system was designed ... from the beginning. We did not slide down into our present situation. This is only our collective self-delusion. As such, I recently saw it asserted that the American Revolution was fueled by fears that England's move to abolish slavery would extent to the colonies. No doubt, someone here will seek to research this as to whether this is correct or not - I believe there is even a book on this.

If this assertion is correct, then this would still be true to our central Postflavian thesis, in that the PTB of England could yet cynically maintain their slave based financial interests in the colonies while pretending to be agencies of contemporaneous decent morality (Christianity, Judaism, and Islam traditionally and canonically being slave-based religions). "Same as it ever was".


Such is also consistent with why "police culture" has always aligned with the Hidden Hand of the elites, over the interests of the common man (e.g. the labor movement and unions) and minorities such as blacks and the indigenous peoples. Equal treatment for all people is taking the Swanson's TV dinners out of the platinum spoons of such 'worthies' as Fucker Carlson.
 
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