Eschatology of the Third and Fourth Reichs

[Richard Stanley]

David Livingstone wrote: "In 1901, Papus also collaborated with an anti-Semitic journalist, Jean Carrere in a series of articles published in the Echo de Paris about a secret financial syndicate opposed to French and Russian relations. Their attacks were directed at important figures in the Russian government, specifically Rachkovsky and his sponsor, Count Sergei Witte, Russia’s Minister of Finance and a cousin to Blavatsky, as well as close ally of Prince Ukhtomskii.[46] When Ukhtomskii accompanied Nicholas II while he was Tsesarevich on his Grand tour to the East, he made contact with Blavatsky at the headquarters of the Theosophical Society at Adyar, India, and promised to use his influence to push forward her projects.[47]"

It is interesting to see what René Guénon, a noted French intellectual usually assigned (not by himself) to the so-called Traditionalist School, which frequently is aligned with such as fascism and absolute monarchy. While Catholicism considers such 'school' of thought in the realm of heresy, 'traditionalist' (ultramontane) Catholics are such monarchists as well. Most American Catholics and similar "need not apply" to such a 'school', but yet there are plenty of them to go around.

In any case, it seems that Guénon thought that Blavatsky was a fraud and connected to the British Empire. Tsar Nicholas II was a close blood relation to the Duke of Kent in any case.

Although the exposition of Hindu doctrines to European audiences had already been attempted in piecemeal fashion at that time by many orientalists, Guénon's Introduction to the Study of the Hindu Doctrines advanced its subject in a uniquely insightful manner,[14] by referring to the concepts of metaphysics and Tradition in their most general sense, which Guénon precisely defined, along with the necessary distinctions and definitions of seemingly unambiguous terms such as religion, tradition, exoterism, esoterism and theology. Guénon explained that his purpose was not to describe all aspects of Hinduism, but to give the necessary intellectual foundation for a proper understanding of its spirit.[15][non-primary source needed] The book also stands as a harsh condemnation of works presented by certain other European writers about Hinduism and Tradition in general; according to Guénon, such writers had lacked any profound understanding of their subject matter and of its implications. The book also contains a critical analysis of the political intrusions of the British Empire into the subject of Hinduism (and India itself) through Madame Blavatsky's Theosophy.[16]

In September 1920, Père Peillaube asked Guénon to write a book against the Theosophical Society.[17] In 1921, Guénon debuted a series of articles in the French Revue de Philosophie, which, along with some supplements, led to the book Theosophy: History of a Pseudo-Religion. His critique of Theosophy was received positively by conservative Catholics.[10] However his later book Orient et Occident distanced him from his Catholic supporters.[10] His friend and erstwhile supporter Jacques Maritain argued that Guénon's views were "radically irreconcilable with the [Catholic] faith and called them a "Hinduist restoration of ancient Gnosis, mother of heresies".[10] Maritain later unsuccessfully tried to have Guénon's works put on the Catholic Index of Prohibited Books.[10] During the decade 1920–1930, Guénon began to acquire a broader public reputation, and his work was noted by various intellectual and artistic figures both within and outside of Paris. Also at this time were published some of his books explaining the "intellectual divide" between the East and West, and the peculiar nature, according to him, of modern civilization: Crisis of the Modern World, and East and West. In 1927 was published the second major doctrinal book of his works: Man and His Becoming according to the Vedânta, and in 1929, Spiritual Authority and Temporal Power. The last book listed offers a general explanation of what Guénon saw as the fundamental differences between "sacerdotal" (priestly or sacred) and "royal" (governmental) powers, along with the negative consequences arising from the usurpation of the prerogatives of the latter with regard to the former. From these considerations, René Guénon traces to its source the origin of the modern deviation, which, according to him, is to be found in the destruction of the Templar order in 1314.

...
In 1921, Guénon published an Introduction to the Study of the Hindu Doctrines. His goal, as he writes it, is an attempt at presenting to westerners eastern metaphysics and spirituality as they are understood and thought by easterners themselves, while pointing at what René Guénon describes as all the erroneous interpretations and misunderstandings of western orientalism and "neospiritualism" (for the latter, notably the proponents of Madame Blavatsky's Theosophy). Right from that time, he presents a rigorous understanding, not only of Hindu doctrines, but also of eastern metaphysics in general.[21]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/René_Guénon​

 

[Richard Stanley]

The following excerpt is from my post on another related thread:

...
As I understand it, Postmodernism (aside from its various public facing, cultural manifestations) was sold to such as 'liberal' academia' as a set of intellectual tools (e.g. deconstruction, etc.) meant to defang such top-down, 'Traditional', meta-narrative constructs as reactionary 'fascism', etc.. Unfortunately these tools have a specialist lexicon that is bewildering in the extreme, and in totality the field seemed rife for the typical (negative) elite co-optation we see constantly, such as with the Populist (false advertising) phenomenon, or with the Nazi's false advertising of their 'socialism'. ...
https://postflaviana.org/community/...hen-who-killed-the-jew.2248/page-2#post-11006​

Indeed, the Nazi ideological construct was focused on an animosity to modernity, and its 'correlated' association with crass 'materialism' and and inherent association with Materialism (Rationalism and its logic of Cause and Effect - 'once' [sic] dread enemies of the Catholic Church and such as Lutheranism). As I have discussed on this thread, the Nazis offered the so-called economic middle (or third) way, between the extremes of rapacious Capitalism and 'godless' Marxism, aka Communism. But, in this case the actual implementation of the Middle Way became economic fascism, where the Nazi state directed privately held businesses in what to do, and financed all this with such as the so-called transfer agreements taking in German-Jewish funds, and taking massive funds from the 'Allies' before and during the war, though the auspices of the BIS bank and other international corporatoins.

Cynically, and conveniently, the Nazis blamed both extremes on the Jews, the 'correlations' (not necessarily causation) being enforced by almost 2,000 years of law by the Roman emperors and Roman popes (all part of the same Sabine tribe). The forces of liberal Enlightenment opened Pandora's Box when the Jews were emancipated along with the feudal serfs, now needed in the 'modern' industrialized urban areas.

Just as the followers of Christ have never been reticent to adopt the best weapons technology of the day, neither were the Nazis in militantly following their apocalyptic savior, Adolf Hitler. It was always cynical rhetoric and false advertising, just like the Flavian's synthesis of Christianity. Such was the prior human synthesis of the Mosaic Cultural Inversion, as a useful foil, the institutionalized scapegoats -- for the genteel shepherds.

Thus, the Nazi rhetorical fascia was constructed, made most attractive to the most rabid anti-Semites, the northern Lutherans and paganistic Volkisch movement, but as well to Roman Catholics (who seem to have later become predominant in the SS, unlike the prior SA). The Nazi purpose of advancing Positive Christianity, stripped of Judaic references was to bridge the gap of the Lutheran Reformation with the mother Catholic Church. No doubt the RCC rejected this proposal because to do so would deprive it, going forward, of its ever useful foil, as so well detailed by James Carroll in his Constantine's Sword. No Christ-killers, no Resurrection. No Resurrection, no Christianity. Psychotic.

 

[Sgt Pepper]

Now, Hugues de Payens, founder of the Templars, was admittedly a mysterious character.

Perhaps he's even a fictional character? In French, de Payens means of Pagans. Could be another joke on everyone.

 

[Richard Stanley]

Perhaps he's even a fictional character? In French, de Payens means of Pagans. Could be another joke on everyone.

A fictional character ... or a fictional name? The original 'Stanley' (or Stanleigh) seems to be just such a humorous Norman creation, a synthesis of respective Saxon and French words for 'stone field'. I have tracked down 3 mutually incompatible origin stories, and while there is no evidence of this line in the English Norman's Domesday Book, from their apparent 'advent' in Norman England the noble branch play(ed) a key background role in this society, including the rise of the Tudors.

Similar is the familial origin story for such as Julius Caesar, that is - from a long obscured royal line, another parallel to Jesus. Returning to the Tudor's, Henry VII was accorded as being descended (via his 1/4 Welsh blood) from Brutus, another Roman king and the ancestor of the family friend and claimed [sic] co-assassin of Julius.

And, coming back on topic, there is the strangeness of Hitler's origins. In this regard, and in line with the messianic theme here, it has occurred to me that Hitler's rise from obscurity was indeed part of the parallel mythos that encompassed Hitler's being seen as Germany's messiah. The aspect of rising from almost nothing lends a heightened sense of divine destiny to the respective enterprise or narrative. This is also part of the strength of the OT narrative about the rise and accomplishments of the people of Israel from seeming nothingness -- compared to the once powerful and now dead neighbors of Egypt, Assyria, Babylon, Persia, and Rome that is.

But what is in a name?

 

[Richard Stanley]

I just got through watching the 1 hour and 48 minute presentation of Hitler's People, a 2015 documentary about how the Nazi's were so successful at psychologically transforming the minds of everyday Germans, into --- yes, a cultish, messianic fervor, just as this thread is discussing. And as my Trump thread is discussing in that very similar social dynamics are at work (we are only in the early stages) now.

There is a large amount of video clips from the period involved as well as re-enactments of interview conversations held by Austrian Jew cum American psychological warfare officer, Saul K. Padover, with numerous German citizens in the very ending of the war.

Besides everything else, quite chilling to me was the manner in which the Nazis would inflate their various deeds, ala Trump, in improving the German economy. It is not that there weren't improvements, but that the promises were much more important than the actual accomplishments.

Another very interesting aspect presented was that the Nazis had managed to arrange a very good food distribution system, such that the average German civilian was better fed, even at the end of the war, than the average Brit or others at the time. This is one reason, among many, that the Nazis fought on with such determination, till the very end.

The average soldier, and citizen, were convinced that they would pull through in victory, it was an apocalyptic war after all, while the German generals all knew it was hopeless since at least Stalingrad. But with only a few exceptions they 'soldiered on', their professional standards of 'duty' more important than humanity.

Here is Episode 1, Conformity, a subset of the above link:

 

[Richard Stanley]

This 2015, 1 hour documentary, Dark Secrets of the Nazis, is about the Nazi's love/hate relationship with various occult organizations. Overall, the docu is a bit disjointed, especially where it spends an inordinate amount of time discussing the Black Dragon Society of Japan for some reason I can't fathom. Perhaps a bit too much about Ian Fleming as well. However, at about 49 minutes began some interesting claims about both Hitler and Franz von Papen and their tight connection with both the Catholic Church and its Jesuit Order. It is all consistent with what I have discussed before.

This claims, supposedly from Hitler and Himmler, were that much was taken from the Jesuits in forming the Nazi regime, in fact, that the SS order was modeled almost entirely upon the Jesu. This is also consistent with that the Nazi 'theological' rhetoric was designed to appeal strongest to German Protestants, who formed the bulk of the earlier SA 'Brownshirts' while the later SS was more heavily represented by Catholics.

Many of the claims and quotations about the Nazi / Jesuit / Catholic connection are also made at this link, which needs some editting (and I have to acknowledge the irony of linking to the site considering the rest of its content, caveat emptor). The link, however, goes further and discusses such as Barack Obama's connections to the Jesuits and such as the Ford Foundation. As I have been discussing the large number of Georgetown Jesuits working in the Trump Administration, I consider Obama to be the set up man for Trump, as was Hillary and her husband, Georgetown Bill.

The video briefly mentions that the Vatican and the Freemasons are actually connected, rather than being enemies, as they are usually portrayed. This is consistent with the conclusion of such as the late Tupper Saussy in his Rulers of Evil. Things aren't always what they seem on the surface.

 

[Richard Stanley]

The 2015 documentary, The Vatican and the Third Reich, tells 'some' of the true story about the relationship of the Catholic Church to the Nazis. German Catholics would have to wait 6 months after Hitler's 1933 accession to power, with the signing of the Concordat giving them permission, to join the Nazi Party. Prior to this the Church had expressly forbidden them to do so, based upon the such as the superficial anti-Christian nature of the content of Mein Kampf. However, in 1937 Pope Pius XI must distance the Church from the Nazis, via Mit Brennender Sorge, as the Nazis been violating the terms of the Concordat. The Nazis have been interfering with various Concordat protected, traditional church prerogatives, such as Church youth groups and schools, etc.. Much is made of this antagonism between the Nazis and the Church, but this is all for show, the duplicitous purpose of which is to insulate the Church from its front, the Nazis.

The documentary discusses the overlapping common goal of the Church and the Nazis in their anti-Bolshevism, but does not mention that this is also evidenced by the Church's use of the Second Prophecy of Fatima (the cynical, barely cryptic equating of the Virgin Mary with the Muslim Fatima) to call for global Catholic support in fighting the Soviet Bolshevists and those revolutionaries in Spain. as Peter Levenda has noted in his The Hitler Legacy, the equation of Lady of Fatima with the Virgin Mary is just part of the secondary effort to begin the radicalization of Islam, i.e. the creation of another dialectic to be used later on (today).



The papacy begins its campaign in the same year that the Virgin Mary, aka the Lady of Fatima, gives her 'prophecies', aka propaganda. Trillions of Postflavians (in the cosmos) now know that socialism, writ large, was cynically radicalized by the development of the totalitarian Communist construct. This last is evidenced by the fact that the term 'soviet' was meant to be the respective local democratic organs of socialist workers, not a totalitarian dictator and his Politburo and Central Committee. Sadly, most 'reforms' and 'revolutions' are hijacked by those powerful hidden hands. Lady Fatima would again be profitable employed in Catholic Vietnam, to help foment Spelly's (Cardinal Spellman) War wreaking considerable 'change' upon the American mindset, in combination with the Kennedy assassinations making US Catholics de facto first class 'citizens' for once.

As an aside, Tricky Dick and Henry Kissinger would make their bones with Vietnam, and then they personally helped give us Agent Orange, Donald J. Trump, President Bone Spurs.​

The docu goes on to discuss that the Vatican absolutely knew about the Jewish (and other) genocide from an early date, but Pius XII, kept his silence, the excuse given that he feared retribution against Catholics. There was some evidence that this fear was quite plausible, but that prior evidence of retribution may just have been another convenient and cynical ploy. In 7/1942, Dutch bishops had protested the Nazi treatment of Jews, and the result was that the Nazis rounded up 200,000 Dutch Jews who had converted to Christianity and had them immediately executed. They had been exempt from this fate prior. Note that the retribution was against Jews, not 'Aryans'. So the 'retribution' was no big deal to haters of Jews.

Let's also keep in mind that we've learned that the SS was made up of a much higher percentage of Catholics than the mostly Protestant SA, and the SS modeled upon the Jesuit (and thus Templar) 'military' order. We've also seen that the Nazi association with paganism was yet another cynical cover to insulate the Church from the dirty deeds which must be done in the furtherance of the global plan. Such can be seen as a good parallel between the Nazis and the 'heretic' Templars.

A French priest, Jean de Mayol de Lupé, became the chaplain of the French Nazi SS Charlemagne Division on the Eastern Front and he would invoke Hitler's name with the Trinity. He was also a monarchist, which is a common subtext while the Nazis were officially anti-monarchist. For a Catholic traditionalist, the next best thing to a monarch is an autocratic dictator, because these frequently lead to the return of monarchy. This is also why there were so many aristocratic 'nobles' associated with Nazism and Italian Fascism.




German Catholic priests and bishops after the Concordat


Swastika above a cathedral entrance

 

[Richard Stanley]

The 2016 documentary, Adolf Hitler, Pure Evil, makes some astonishing claims about Hitler's 'occult' influences, and as well his deep connections to the Catholic Church, including with the future Pope Pius XII when the latter was papal nuncio in Germany. It provides more detail about the Catholic/Jesuit background of Franz von Papen as well.

It should be noted that I have discussed in prior threads about the 'paganistic' element (a demographic minority) of the Nazi movement that was targeted at the traditional pre-Christian Nordic polytheism that was then resurgent, including the Volkish nature movement. This is not to be confused or conflated with what is being talked about here, albeit there is likely some overlap. The non-overlap has to do with other elements of the occult that, in some cases, can be commonly be identified as Jewish, a dark irony. Of course, the Nazis would claim that Jesus was Aryan.

Much has been made that Hitler determined that Freemasonry must be outlawed, because it was too Judaic, but the docu states that what really happened was that German Freemasonry was really rebranded, so that it could be put to use within the Nazi scheme.

The docu presents the masonic associations of Roosevelt and Churchill, with respect to Hitler's associations, in a manner that accords with my interpretation. It also ties into the American Skull and Bones with a brief comment. Not mentioned was that the latter does indeed have Germanic links going back to its founding, as well as with English Congregationalism, a Christian denomination founded in the House of Savoy.

It thus presents, as do I, that these 'occult' groups are manifestations of the hidden (occult) duality inherent to the Catholic Church (and all of Christianity), where the various occult branches, as secret societies, are various perverse arms or fronts of the exoteric Church which must deny its associations to the sheep.

In this context, it also discusses the Spear of Destiny, that of Longinus, that was supposed to have pierced Jesus side. And that Hitler made a beeline to personally take possession of it on the day after the Anschluss, as a talisman that would enable the success of his mission -- to conquer the world. This gets into some serious paradoxes:

• Hitler justified his campaigns against the Jews, for one thing, because they were intent on ... conquering the world.
  • The Jewish Chosen People were replaced by the German Chosen People, now we're waiting for the Trumpian fate of the American Exceptional People.
• The spear is seen by some as a force of evil, yet, as I've stated before, Christianity owes it's very existence to Christ being killed, by a Roman spear .. or by Jews?
• Hitler is presented in Nazi messaging as the Aryan messiah, and here apparently one man's messiah is another's Antichrist.

We must also take into account the notion that while 'Germany' clearly lost WWII, that the Nazi movement has survived as noted by various authors, and that it seems to have a vector into the strange behaviors of Agent Orange.

 

[Richard Stanley]

The 2016 documentary, Adolf Hitler, Pure Evil, makes some astonishing claims about Hitler's 'occult' influences, and as well his deep connections to the Catholic Church, including with the future Pope Pius XII when the latter was papal nuncio in Germany. It provides more detail about the Catholic/Jesuit background of Franz von Papen as well.

In discussing the 'occult' the documentary also correctly places the term and concept of 'occult' into the proper perspective, in that we are discussing various aspects that are 'hidden'. Hidden from the understanding and 'conscious' perception of the average person, not that there is some supernatural aspect(s) involved. These aspects involve such as the semiotics of symbology, wordings, presentation tone and physical posturing, and the massive use of ritual spectacle used by the Nazis. All of these work consciously and/or subconsciously upon humans just as similar psychological 'whisperer' approaches work upon dogs, horses, and even cats. These are effective because the mostly unwitting mind is literally hard-wired to be receptive to such stimuli. As the docu notes, this is nothing new, as religions (and governments) have made use of all this for thousands of years, including Hitler's Catholic Church.

In the case of Hitler, the docu discusses the influences upon him in his early days after WWI by Sebotendorf and Eckart, and via this mentoring Hitler learned the presentation craft that made him 'mesmerizing' to both small and large audiences. Psychological studies today have proved that one's simple physical posturing can alter the way others perceive you, and here we are presented with pictures of Hitler in various presentation poses. This general approach has been carefully adapted for use by Herr Trump in resonating with his MAGA base. Ironically, Trump's incoherence is coherent to his base, because they speak and think the same way.

 

[Richard Stanley]

The 2018 documentary, Hitler's Women, provides more amazing insights into the mesmerizing hold Hitler had upon the women of Germany. The title of the documentary had me thinking that the subject was about Hitler's personal romantic life, and it did indeed start off that way, discussing Winfred Wagner (the daughter-in-law of the famous composer), niece Geli Rabaul, Eva Braun, and as well various other supposed playmates.

After this introduction, however, the docu goes into the manner in which Hitler was portrayed to women and girls of the Reich, and then how Nazi policy was tailored to maintain the political support from women. It is claimed that Hitler's bachelorhood was justified because he was 'wed' to the Reich, like a dutiful messiah, and that the German people, except the inner circle, did not know of Eva Braun until just after the war.

Numerous video clips show the dramatic impact of the cult of messianic personality upon the throngs of adoring women. They evoke the scenes of later teen girls mobbing the Beatles in the 1960's. As such, one wonders if this points to the link as to why Hitler, among others, is found upon the cover of the Sargeant Pepper's album?

Discussed was that the Nazi's were so politically sensitive to the reactions of women that this was one reason that slave labor was put to so much use in factories, because the German women generally did not want be Rosie the Riveters as in America.

It goes on to discuss the Lebensborn project, to help build the so-called Master Race of blue-eyed, blonde Aryans. One commentator suggests that it really should be viewed more as a cynical network of brothels for the use of the SS, I guess one of the sacred perks of membership. Discussed is how the Nazi ideological program appealed to woman such that it appears that most all of the 'mothers' were quite willing and happy to fulfill their patriotic duty. Even darker, and more cynical, was an associated program to steal such as Polish children (about 200K) from their parents, that met the physical appearance requirements for the ideals of Germanic Aryanism, actually Nordic Aryanism.

This last point is sardonically interesting, as Hitler did not meet the Nordic appearance ideals of the Nazis, in any way. Hitler was short, had brown hair and eyes, and some say he only had one testicle (he was an oddball for sure). But, here the Nazi propaganda machine was so effective, including Hitler's practiced mannerisms and speech, that this contradiction was overlooked by most. In fact, as I have seen mentioned elsewhere, practically all of the Nazi inner circle were completely lacking in Nordic features. And, they mostly looked like they were rejects from circus clown school.

In any case, as I have discussed before, the Polish children issue is similar to the program hinted at in Hosea 1:1, where Hosea states that he needed to repopulate Jezreel by metaphorically mating the whore Gomer. The implication here that non-Semitic peoples will become to take on the identity of Semitic Israelites. The prior Israelites having been 'cleansed' from the land. And later, the non-Semitic Ashkenazi (Khazars, decended from 'Gomer') would take on the Jewish-Semitic Identity (because their king told them to).

And from such (Western) conquest 'narratives' we get to continually play the bloody tribal identity games, because some jackholes profit by such. The latest being Jordan Peterson.

 

[Jerry Russell]

The latest being Jordan Peterson.

Here's a viral video from Peterson giving his views on Hitler. There are several key points:

(1) Hitler was very sensitive to disgust. He was disgusted by parasites, rats and insects, and worked very hard on industrial hygiene. Then, ironically, he used similar Zyklon technology to eliminate people who disgusted him.

(2) The German people were traumatized by the First World War and then by the Weimar hyperinflation. Hitler became the spokesman for the peoples' distress and anguish through a sort of Pavlovian conditioning process: "Hitler comes along, and he's a very powerful emotional orator, and he's watching the crowd, and he listens -- and when he says thing A, nothing happens; when he says thing B, everybody roars -- and so he takes note of that, and it's not even conscious exactly, right, because he's being molded by the crowd..."

(3) The crowd had a thirst for violence and revenge, which gave Hitler his charisma. If there were any Germans opposed to the collaboration between Hitler and the mob, they were "overrun by the mania".

(4) Similarly today, Peterson has noticed that no one speaks up about the current situation, not even tenured professors. He says that in Nazi Germany the stakes were high. But even when stakes are low, "people won't think." Now, here, he is presumably talking about the errors of "Cultural Marxism" and/or "PC" that he's expecting people to speak up against, and perhaps this is why he thinks that stakes are low.

Perhaps it's not fair to draw any conclusions about Peterson because of what gets left out of a 6 minute video. But, there's not much discussion of the Catholic vs. Jewish dialectic, or about Hitler's personal agency, his occult connections, or his plans as they were laid out in Mein Kampf. Also, no mention of the capitalist social layer, whose wartime experiences were somewhat different from the common men in the trenches. The blame for the problem of Hitler is, simply, placed on ordinary people.

 

[Richard Stanley]

As you posted this I was watching Peterson's first lecture on the Old Testament. There are some major points of agreement and some value in his insights, but, as well, some incredible non sequiturs and incoherence made.

At one point he makes a digression into the NT and states that the purpose of the Bible is indeed to lead to the ideal 'State'. From his argument I see that one could indeed make the argument that the Flavians, or similar did indeed craft the Bible .. for just such a purpose. A traditionalist Catholic might even agree .. on the Down Low. Especially if the State is a Platonic one, but Peterson is appealing to the audience as if it was all meant to lead to the contemporary classical Liberal view of the State existing for the individual. Nothing could have been further from the truth. The State was always a hierarchy with its slaves or serfs, even the American Republic. But he's Canadian, and they still have their queen.

Peterson would label us as Postmodernists, because of our position that religions are conspiracies of the elites, but this was also the position of Modernists like Marx. Ironically, we know that Marx was a tool as well.

In this video Peterson is quick to call out Antifa, but says nothing of the alt-right. No wonder the latter loves him, he's very selective.

 

[CplCam]

Oh that is hilarious. Of course Jordan Peterson would draw exactly the wrong conclusion from his analogy. No, Jordan, plenty of professors, tenured professors are speaking out AGAINST TRUMP. What the fuck are YOU doing, Jordan?

 

[Richard Stanley]

Oh that is hilarious. Of course Jordan Peterson would draw exactly the wrong conclusion from his analogy. No, Jordan, plenty of professors, tenured professors are speaking out AGAINST TRUMP. What the fuck are YOU doing, Jordan?

Perhaps we can credit Peterson with a half-truth, at least as he characterizes the situation with Hitler and the Nazis?

In the decade plus of Hitler's rise to power plenty of Germans spoke out against Hitler, and this was in the context of prior open and widespread violence between the militant 'Bolsheviks' and the right-wing paramilitary (Freikorps) and later Nazi Sturmabteilung Brown Shirts. However, once Hitler took over from Hindenburg the Nazis made any political dissent an existential threat, including the very existence of opposing political parties. In such an environment, in is natural, for most, that the survival instinct takes over. And subsequent dissent was then generally forced to be covert.

Another key aspect to Hitler's millennial ideology was his 'third way' economic alignment with the 1891 papal encyclical Rerum Novarum, where both rail against 'socialism' and unrestrained capitalism (the latter epitomized by the USA). In Mein Kampf Hitler appended traditional (institutional and theological) Catholic and Lutheran anti-Semitism to this, in making the Jews solely responsible for socialism writ large and unrestrained capitalism. And nobody openly, at least, guided him to do this, albeit some assert that Hitler had some support ghost-writing cleric(s) to assist him.

The circumstances of Hitler's 'imprisonment' over the failed Beer Hall Putsch 'treason' are pretty amazing. This was something of a luxury prison, almost a resort, where he supposedly 'dictated' over 700 pages in 9 months time. I wonder what circumstances one received for murder?

The hard life at Landsberg Prison

On the surface, the 'third way', or 'middle way' sounds very appealing, and I otherwise consider such a middle way to be generally correct. One problem is for me, as not stated in Rerum Novarum (as far as I can tell so far), is that there is no account for that such as all humans especially including small business owners and the investor class, the so-called bourgeoisie, are highly susceptible to a literal profit addiction akin to drug and alcohol addiction. The 1891 papacy failed, or did not want, to take this into account, and that humans frequently don't take such as papal or priestly rhetoric and 'ideals' into account. This has nothing to do with the Jews, whether they be genetic or converted. The Genesis narrative of the foundation of the tribe of Judah is the fundamental Identity trope at the base of Western Civilization, our Postflavian False Dialectic.

Rerum Novarum also appears to take into account that businesses are forced to deal with competitors and therefore look for any way possible to cut costs, including employee compensation. And when not actually pressed to do so by competition, reduced compensation just becomes another convenient pretext to increase Rand(y) profits.

As such, 'almost' identical to Peterson's take on the true 'pagan' theological sources of the Old Testament Genesis narratives, the 'Jews' were indeed cynically turned into the perennial Scapegoat, which general concept has its roots deep in pre-historical tribal cultures - to be yest found in contemporary primitive societies. As James Carroll describes in his Constantine's Sword the Church institutionalized this relationship in all of its theology starting with Augustine and only 'officially' ending with John Paul II.

And as Rerum Novarum seems to speak to ideals and not reality, one has to wonder if its 'third way' operates much like the 'Third Way' of more contemporary political 'triangulators', exemplified by the neoliberal Clintons and the neocon Newt Gingrich. The latter, whose current wife is Trump's ambassador to the Vatican.

Peterson makes an interesting observation below while also failing to comprehend that Karl Marx established a false dialectic, that between the 'proletariat' and the 'bourgeois':

Postmodernism and identity politics

Peterson says that postmodern philosophers and sociologists since the 1960s[55] have built upon and extended certain core tenets of Marxism and communism while simultaneously appearing to disavow both ideologies. He says that it is difficult to understand contemporary Western society without considering the influence of a strain of postmodernism thought that migrated from France to the United States through the English department at Yale University. He states that certain academics in the humanities

... started to play a sleight of hand, and instead of pitting the proletariat, the working class, against the bourgeois, they started to pit the oppressed against the oppressor. That opened up the avenue to identifying any number of groups as oppressed and oppressor and to continue the same narrative under a different name ... The people who hold this doctrine – this radical, postmodern, communitarian doctrine that makes racial identity or sexual identity or gender identity or some kind of group identity paramount – they've got control over most low-to-mid level bureaucratic structures, and many governments as well.[59]​

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jordan_Peterson#Postmodernism_and_identity_politics​

Why, prey tell, did Marx set up such a simple class warfare distinction, where the focus is not on either the aristocracy, which he was married into, and such as farmers, the former serfs. The new Industrial Age workers were former rural serfs as well? It seems that most, including the church as evidenced by Rerum Novarum, admits that there is a close relationship between the workers' just attempts for compensation equity has a relationship to 'socialism', but Marx turned this movement into a convenient 'godless' foil for the reactionaries of the Church, while Stalin et al. removed the democratic nature of 'socialism' (as evidenced by the very term 'soviet' in Russia). We are then left with the 'coincidence' that Stalin helped Hitler to power, where the German Communists, under Stalin's sway, refused to collude with the Democratic Socialists on a candidate against Hitler.

And while the latter was going on, Franz von Papen, the member of a high ranking Catholic family, a leader of the Catholic Zentrum (Central) Party, helped get Hitler elected, and later negotiated the Nazi Vatican Concordat, becoming a Papal Chamberlain (Camerlengo) after the war. As James Carroll noted, von Papen attended both 20th century unveilings in the Trier cathedral of the ephod (the seamless robe of the Jewish high priest) of Jesus in 1933 and 1959. The first time to celebrate Hitler's ascension to power.

Nothing to see here, just more coincidences. But in any case, Peterson's particular political correctness is 'justified' because his 'scientific' psychological bona fides can assure us that he has no a priori biases within his non sequiturs. He has the Right lens to determine that all must konform to the dictates of the State, as only the State knows what is in our best interests and what Freedom really is. A dream told him so.

What we got was a completely contrived and apocalyptic Hegelian Dialectic, between the likes of Hitler and Stalin, resulting in the formation of the current state of Israel, setting up the next stepping stone, the cornerstone for the next Temple, which must get destroyed to symbolically launch the actual next age.

 

[Richard Stanley]

The following video asserts that the economic problems of the Weimar Republic have been overblown, not only by later historians, but apparently the Nazi (and Marxist) propaganda leading up to 1933. While there economic problems, according to this view the main problems were the Cultural War issues between more libertine modernity and the conservative traditional values, of which there seems to have been a strong overlap between urban and rural divides, seen today in the USA, and in today's Israel.

Therefore, and if true, the causal emphasis becomes even stronger on propaganda efforts and the roles of key individuals, including General Paul von Hindenburg.

 

[Jerry Russell]

Michel Chossudovsky ran this article today claiming that Nazi Germany was dependent on oil shipments from US Standard Oil throughout WWII, including for their assault on the Soviet Union. Direct shipments were interrupted after Pearl Harbor, but the oil was shipped after that time via Switzerland, France and Venezuela. Chossudovsky's conclusion:

https://www.globalresearch.ca/sleep...nazi-germany-against-the-soviet-union/5694820

Let us be under no illusions. Without the oil shipments instrumented by US Standard Oil and its subsidiaries, Nazi Germany’s imperial design could not have been undertaken.​

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You cannot wage a war without fuel.​

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America had been “sleeping with the enemy” throughout World War II.​

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America’s objective was to destroy the Soviet Union.​

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I knew that Hitler had American friends, but never knew that American support continued to this extent. Chossudovsky doesn't give the evidence or sources for his conclusions.

Is this old news around here, that everybody knows but me? Or should I say, WTF?

 

[Richard Stanley]

This claim has been around for a long time, but I've never seen documentation. That said, it fits with such as the massive 'Allied' country corporate financial support that occured before and during the war that went through the Bank of International Settlements in Basel, Switzerland. The BIS was set up by such as Hjalmar Schacht for just this purpose and the institution still exists today.

 

[Suchender]

.....Chossudovsky's conclusion:

America’s objective was to destroy the Soviet Union

.....and at the same time doing everything possible to keep Soviet Union alive during WW2 by feeding and arming it !!
.....and after that feeding them for all the rest of it's existance with grain exports, technology transfer !!

RIGHT !
CLEARLY America had only the destruction of the Soviet Union in mind !!
LOL
.

 

[Jerry Russell]

Hi Suchender,

.....and at the same time doing everything possible to keep Soviet Union alive during WW2 by feeding and arming it !!
.....and after that feeding them for all the rest of it's existance with grain exports, technology transfer !!

Is it possible that the US assisted both the Germans and the Soviets during WWII, in order to produce the maximum possible destruction on both sides? And that the US assisted the Soviets in the postwar era, in order to infiltrate their society, create dependencies, and ultimately destroy the Soviet government from within? Which is what happened.

Or perhaps there were pro-German and pro-Soviet factions within the US power structure, which is far from monolithic?

Or, perhaps Chossudovky's evidence sources are bad, and US Standard Oil stopped all shipments to Hitler after Pearl Harbor?

 

[Richard Stanley]

Somewhere on the forum I posted a video with one segment of this history series of Oliver Stone, The Untold History of the United States. The following is an interview about the consequences of the Democratic Party machine in forcing FDR to swap out VP Wallace with Truman, with respect to post-war policy towards the USSR. They did not discuss what happened with Germany via such as Operation Paperclip, albeit that the Soviets took in their share of Nazi scientists. Expedience right?

Or, is such expedience, before during, and after the war more indicative of something deeper going on, that we're not supposed to comprehend?