Eastern Orthodox & Islamic End Time Prophecy

Discussion in 'Religion' started by Jerry Russell, Apr 12, 2018.

  1. Jerry Russell

    Jerry Russell Administrator Staff Member

    I don't know if this will help your opinion of Guyenot, but: I first encountered him at The Saker website, where he is a regular columnist. In this recent piece, Guyenot expresses a view that we've seen before: that the Jewish religion inspires profound immorality and encourages conspiracy, as opposed to the wonderful Christian religion which is the "exact opposite".

    http://thesaker.is/who-the-hell-is-the-prince-of-this-world/

    The point that Judaism is a kind of tribal soul has been made by by several Jewish thinkers. The American rabbi Harry Waton, writing in his A Program for Jews and Humanity in 1939, is a good example. Drawing from his understanding of the Bible as speaking only of “an immortality right here on earth,” and from his understanding of Judaism as concerned only “about this earth,” he concludes:

    “The Jews that have a deeper understanding of Judaism know that the only immortality there is for the Jew is the immortality in the Jewish people. Each Jew continues to live in the Jewish people, and he will continue to live so long as the Jewish people will live.”[17]

    That is the logic behind such warnings as issued by Benzion Netanyahu, father of the Israeli Prime Minister, against marrying non-Jews:

    “Only by intermarriage can a person uproot himself from a nation, and then only in so far as his descendants are concerned. […] Quitting a nation is, therefore, even from a biological point of view, an act of suicide.”[18]

    What appears to be missing in Yahwism from the point of view of any other religion is at the same time its greatest strength. For an individual has only a few decades to accomplish his destiny, while a whole people has centuries. The national orientation of the Jewish soul injects into any collective project a spiritual force and endurance with which no other national community can compete. It explains the extraordinary capacity of Jews to advance long-term objectives through transgenerational networks. The Neocons are the most recent and the most formidable of these networks. And nothing is more revealing of their philosophy than the admiration professed by their mentor Leo Strauss to Machiavelli (surely a “secret Jew”, according to Neocon Michael Ledeen, because “if you listen to his political philosophy you will hear Jewish music.”[19]) Strauss believes that the genius of Machiavelli is to have understood that the true patriot is the one who, knowing that he has no individual soul and therefore no risk to be damned, puts no moral limit to what he can do for his country.[20] This is the exact opposite of Christ’s words: “What gain, then, is it for anyone to win the whole world and forfeit his life?” (Mark 8:36).

    And, whereas the Saker website encourages criticism of the Jewish religion and Zionism, it encourages a union of Christianity (especially in its pure Russian Orthodox form) along with specific Islamic sects.

    Saker posted today, this monograph by the Islamic scholar Sheikh Imran Hosein of Trinidad. According to Wikipedia, this person became a diplomat, and was sent to New York, where he was responsible for Islamic prayers and a weekly sermon at the UN. His exegesis reveals his theological basis for The Saker's favored coalition.

    http://thesaker.is/the-quran-the-great-war-in-the-west/

    Our study of the Qur’ān reveals that modern western civilization’s five hundred years of blood-stained rule over the world is now coming to an end, and that the Great War on Orthodox Christian Russia for which the world of western Christianity and their Jewish Zionist allies now lust, will be the beginning of that end. The Qur’ān allows us to anticipate that the world after the Great War would be one in which the true followers of Jesus – located mostly in Orthodox Christianity – would achieve a divinely- ordained superiority over their western rivals, and that such dominance over their sinful godless rivals will continue until the end of the world.

    The Qur’ān declared that there would be a Christian people who would be closest in love and affection for Muslims. In making this declaration Allah Most High has disclosed to the world the means by which the true followers of Jesus can be recognized in Ākhir al-Zamān, i.e., the End-time.
     
  2. Jerry Russell

    Jerry Russell Administrator Staff Member

    Apparently, the Russian Orthodox reading is pretty close to this. A link from the comments section of the above-linked Islamic monograph leads to an article:

    https://www.rt.com/politics/410418-orthodox-patriarch-warns-parish-end/

    In a public speech in the main Moscow cathedral, Patriarch Kirill said the signs from the Book of Revelation are now apparent. He also called on politicians and ordinary citizens to unite and stop the movement towards the abyss.

    “All people who love the Motherland must be together because we are entering a critical period in the course of human civilization. This can already be seen with the naked eye. You have to be blind not to notice the approaching awe-inspiring moments in history that the apostle and evangelist John was talking about in the Book of Revelation,” the patriarch was quoted as saying by Interfax.

    And in the comments section to the RT article, we find that Kirill's fans are enthusiastically agreeing:

    He is correct 100% In fact we are in Chapter12 of St John Apocalypse Revelation. Read it up it is very interesting.
     
  3. Richard Stanley

    Richard Stanley Administrator

    I think that, like other's, Guyénot's work is a valuable contribution, but more as it helps bolster our notion of the False Dialectic, which necessitates a controlled opposition, a deniable front for the real elite sponsors, who are detailed in the tribal order described in Genesis, and with the opening verse of Hosea (referring to the whore, Gomer - the very same modus operandi repeated with the Gomeric descended Ashkenazi (the non-Semitic Semites).

    Patriarch Kirill is either ignorant of the deepest ontological implications of his own religion, inextricably built atop the 'Jewish' one, or he is playing his sheep like all the other shepherds do. Same for the Saker. Is it ironic that it is now known that the concept of a scapegoat exists within most tribal cultures extending back into pre-history? This is the constant narrative thread of Kirill's Holy Book, the supposed word of his god.

    I have not finished Guyénot's From Yahweh to Zion, but likely he doesn't understand that Josephus's 'Flavian' role in establishing Christianity is what binds them all together. Just like Joseph's colluding with 'Pharaoh' to implement the serf system in Egypt that Josephus's Flavian Christianity brought to Europe, including Russia.

    I have mused before that the gospel Jesus was cynically saying that "the Truth would set us Free", knowing that most could not figure out what the Truth really was, or what true Freedom really is. I think he was also being cynical when he said: "Forgive them Father, for they know not what they do." Whoever wrote that was laughing all the way to the bank.
     
  4. Jerry Russell

    Jerry Russell Administrator Staff Member

    Ralph Ellis posted this on his Facebook page, apparently in support of Trump's withdrawal from the Iran treaty. But what's interesting here, is Ralph's analysis of Shiite views of eschatology.

    How does Twelver eschatology compare to Sunni eschatology?

    In general, do Sunnis, Shia and Wahabbists agree that the basic scenario in the Koran involves Jesus' return along with the Al-Mahdi, at the time of portents and signs? (Aside from the business about the Al-Mahdi living in a well, that is.)

    Rick, do you happen to know? In a quick web search, I didn't turn up any discussion of sectarian variants in Islamic eschatology.

    Ralph's description of the video with Ahmadinejad seems odd to me. The interviewer is wearing a hijab and seems to be a believer, so the description of her as a "typical craven western reporter" doesn't fit for me. In the following comments, Ralph is complaining about the BBC, although his clip is from NBC.

    https://www.facebook.com/ralph.ellis.144/posts/10214570475089698


    *** Trump Holds Iran to Account ***

    Good move, or bad move?
    Since most Shia Iranians are eschatologists, this is probably a good move.

    Iran’s mad mullah leaders are Twelvers - followers of Al-Mahdi, the 12th immam, who disappeared in mysterious circumstances in AD 874, aged just five.** Most Shia Muslims think he is still alive, and has been hiding down a well for the last 1,100 years. And if you think that is mad, hold onto your hats.

    Anyway, before the young Al-Mahdi comes out of his well, there will several portents or signs. These include:

    ... The Shia (the Iranian) army will lose a grat war with the unbelievers.
    ... There will be a great fire in the sky.
    ... We will hear two great shouts in the sky.

    The latter have recently been interpreted as nuclear detonations. So all Iran has to do, to resurrect the 12th imam is: provoke a war with Israel; to get Israel to fight and defeat the Iranian army; and to goad Israel or America into firing at least two nuclear bombs at Iran. If it can do all that, then Jesus will return at the second coming, and the 12th imam, the Mahdi, will come out of his well - and then Shia Islam will be triumphant over the entire world, and there will be peace under a Shia regime.

    Here is Ahmadinejad (below) on the coming if the Mahdi. Note the taqqiiyya here, because Shia eschatology does indeed proclaim that there will be a great apocalypse before the Mahdi comes out of the well and brings peace. (Note the typical craven western reporter too. They would never be so craven to a western politician or Christian bishop.)

    That is why Ahmadinejad proclaimed the destruction of Israel so often - because that is a key component of the end-times apocalypse. And nothing has changed since Ahmadinejad’s time - the mad mullahs of Iran are still eschatologists who want to bring about the end of the world.

    And that is why they can never be allowed to build or buy a nuclear bomb.

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=lwN-_KxFaCc

    Ralph

    ** Hence the Mad Mahdi, who: “don’t like it up’em”. (Sorry, a very English joke, that one...). Note: The leader of the 19th century Sudanese claimed to be this same lost Mahdi, and his army were known as the Mad Mahdi...
     
  5. Jerry Russell

    Jerry Russell Administrator Staff Member

    In the NBC interview, Ahmadinejad comes across as a real statesman. Not a madman at all.

    I wish that Trump would make such a clear statement about his own eschatology. I wish I could be so optimistic.

    Q: "You said that you believe that his arrival, the apocalypse, would happen in your own lifetime. What do you believe that you should do to hasten his arrival?"

    Ahmadinejad: "Well I'm sure I have never said such a thing."

    Q: "Forgive me."

    Ahmadinejad: "Nice... I was talking about peace. What is being said about an apocalyptic war, global war, things of that nature: this is what the Zionists are claiming. Imam Mahdi will come with logic, with culture, with science. He will come so that there is no more war, no more enmity or hatred, no more conflict. Imam Mahdi calls on everyone to enter in brotherly love. Of course he will return with Jesus Christ. The two will come back together, and working together they would fill this world with love. Stories that have been disseminated about extensive war, apocalyptic wars, so on and so forth: these are false."
    Ralph accuses Ahmadinejad of taqqiiyya or false dissimulation about his religious beliefs. So maybe Ralph is right, and he's lying about his own beliefs. But, maybe he's stating what he believes, and wishes all Muslims would believe. If so, it seems like a white lie, a falsehood that we all wish would be true.


     
    Last edited: May 18, 2018
  6. Richard Stanley

    Richard Stanley Administrator

    I would need to study this more to answer for sure. That said, my current understanding is that with the exception of the odd Sufis the Sunnis take a more literal interpretation of the Quran compared to the various Shiite sects, which tend to have more esoteric and metaphorical interpretations. The Shiites have the Fivers, the Ismaili Nizaris (Seveners?), and the Twelvers. Then each sect has numerous hadith schools of interpretation, of which I don't know how the respective eschatologies vary.

    The 'number' sects I believe mostly differ on the number of imams that descended from Ali and what is respectively call their Hidden Imam, who in some sects is supposed to return at the appointed time. I think in these cases he is one and the same as the Mahdi. The Mahdi is supposed to kick some apocalyptic arse, and then Isa (aka Jesus) comes to reign in peace, and then all the good Muslims and Peoples of the Book live happily ever after. Not sure about anybody else.
     

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