Coronavirus epidemic news

Jerry Russell

Administrator
Staff member
I'm not sure exactly what this means; except that a lot of things we think we know about the pandemic, might be completely wrong.

The "active nucleic acid screening test" (RT-PCR test?) has an 80% false positive rate?? And, it's already been reported that the test also has a high false negative rate. This bolsters the argument that this viral RNA is some sort of co-factor that weakly correlates with the actual cause of the disease.

Abstract only; article in Chinese hasn't been translated yet.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/32133832?fbclid=IwAR1dvWkVYTWJ-9uY99xrEYfcX3DSHv9P-P4Xj_SDZ2p5yRKCE4E_sbPqicw

Potential false-positive rate among the 'asymptomatic infected individuals' in close contacts of COVID-19 patients
As the prevention and control of COVID-19 continues to advance, the active nucleic acid test screening in the close contacts of the patients has been carrying out in many parts of China. However, the false-positive rate of positive results in the screening has not been reported up to now. [....]
When the infection rate of the close contacts and the sensitivity and specificity of reported results were taken as the point estimates, the positive predictive value of the active screening was only 19.67%, in contrast, the false-positive rate of positive results was 80.33%. The multivariate-probabilistic sensitivity analysis results supported the base-case findings, with a 75% probability for the false-positive rate of positive results over 47%.
 

Emma Robertson

Active Member
This was back in 2017:
Is China Ground Zero for a Future Pandemic?
https://www.smithsonianmag.com/science-nature/china-ground-zero-future-pandemic-180965213/

Officially, the live-bird markets in Beijing have been shuttered for years. In reality, guerrilla vendors run furtive slaughterhouses throughout this national capital of wide avenues, gleaming architecture and more than 20 million residents—despite warnings that their businesses could be spreading deadly new strains of the flu.

Many Chinese people, even city dwellers, insist that freshly slaughtered poultry is tastier and more healthful than refrigerated or frozen meat. This is one of the major reasons China has been such a hot spot for new influenza viruses: Nowhere else on earth do so many people have such close contact with so many birds.

[...]And just a few days before she became ill, Long had walked about an hour to the local market, approached a vendor selling live poultry and returned home with five chickens.
Long’s case is part of an ominous outbreak that began in China and could, according to experts in Asia and the United States, evolve into a pandemic. H7N9 first spread from birds to humans in 2013. Health officials recently confirmed that there have been 1,589 total cases of H7N9, with 616 of them fatal. “Anytime you have a virus with a 40 percent mortality rate, that’s very, very serious.”
So far, the only verified means by which patients have acquired the virus is through direct exposure to infected animals. But if H7N9 were to mutate further and develop the ability to pass readily from person to person, it could spread rapidly and kill millions of people worldwide.


So, basically, as of Monday I will be confined to my home, except for going to the supermarket, because Chinese people like to eat freshly slaughtered meat...and what is worse there is no sight that in the future things will change...unless we put pressure on them. I am of the strong opinion that China should monetarily pay other countries for the costs of this pandemic. This will burden Chinese common man, with taxes, and it should be explained to them that these taxes are because they are not changing their eating habits, despite having been warned and aware of the dangers. It seems fair to me.

We have been miracoulously avoiding a much worse pandemic so far, but it's like being on a bomb ready to explode: the deadly African Swine Flu can one day genetically change and be able to infect humans. The deadly avian flu can become able to spread from human to human.

Pigs [are being slaughtered] in China because sick of African Swine Flu. A disease that is much more being covered up by Chinese authorities than human COVID.

(If you think about it, they cannot fake the overcoming of the human epidemic and send people back to work and around again, or people will get sick and die again by the thousands. Who will work then?)

One of the reasons why the African Swine Flu is infecting so many pigs is because people like to eat freshly slaughered meat. That means that pigs have to be transported alive for long distances in hard conditions, increasing the chances of infecting each other.

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2020/jan/23/appetite-for-warm-meat-drives-risk-of-disease-in-hong-kong-and-china

Disease outbreaks have raised wider questions about the sustainability of Chinese consumers’ appetite – both on the mainland and in Hong Kong – for what is often called “warm” meat.
“The main problem is the indifference or perception of people who simply regard animals as food, tools, or as things that people can do anything they want to,” she said.
“In particular, there is no perception of farm animals as having feelings, or being capable of feeling pain or suffering.”

One reason for the demand for wet markets is that widespread refrigeration only came to China in recent years. While most urban homes now have refrigerators, many in rural areas and low income urban renters still do not own one, or only a mini-fridge if they do.


One of the most logical things for the Chinese government to do to stop China from infecting the world is to provide a refrigerator to each household. Otherwise the ban on wet markets that it has issued will just be paper. Is a nobody like me necessary to tell them this? Are they not able to see it by themselves?

And why Western countries do not require a refund from China for the damages of this pandemic? Do they fear that China will not buy their public debt any longer? If that is so, you see what it means to have allowed China to become so economically rich at our expenses.

[Post edited by JR to delete graphic images]
 
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Jerry Russell

Administrator
Staff member
So, basically, as of Monday I will be confined to my home, except for going to the supermarket,
Glad to hear it. I think this is a smart survival strategy, at least until we have better understanding of what's going on.

I am of the strong opinion that China should monetarily pay other countries for the costs of this pandemic.
Emma, have you been reading the earlier posts in this thread, such as here? The Chinese say that this pandemic originated in America. And at least some of the best available scientific evidence supports this, although there's a lot of contradictory information as well.

I spare you the picture of dogs just slaughtered and sold whole on a counter.
So why not spare us the pictures of ducks, chickens and pigs too? Are they less significant or sentient than dogs? I will probably be deleting those other pictures shortly. I think in context, this could be taken as anti-Chinese hate photography.

It's hard to know where to draw the line. I do agree that these "wet markets" could give rise to pandemic threats, whether or not they were responsible for this particular pandemic.

“In particular, there is no perception of farm animals as having feelings, or being capable of feeling pain or suffering.”
And you think American factory farmers have a greater degree of compassion?

For that matter, even animals at the best, most humanely operated natural organic farms do encounter a bad day eventually. Are you arguing that the entire human race needs to become vegan?

why Western countries do not require a refund from China for the damages of this pandemic?
Why should China agree to such payments? What steps would you support to enforce such payments?
 
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Richard Stanley

Well-Known Member
I wonder if Emma would also be willing to sue Chief Squawattle for all the mixed messaging, at best, the encouragement of unsafe behaviors, and the failure to get testing (and other procedures) rapidly ramped up as other countries have been able to do (e.g. South Korea, Taiwan, Singapore)?

Below, the "respected" Dr. Fauci is telling us that the USA, under Squawattle, has done everything that it could, while encouraging us to look forward and not back. If we had done everything possible, then what is the problem with looking back? Rather than eating the pooches, Chief Squawattle and Fauci have screwed our pooches.


Then, on another network, he goes on to say that Americans crammed together in European airport lines is unfortunate, ... because they did not need to be stampeded (by Squawattle) into returning all at once. How many coronviruses also are getting stampeded into coming to the USA? What the Hell are Fauci and Squawattle up to?


The problem here is that the timing simply could not be better for Chief Squawattle. Besides all the other factors we've already discussed, states (e.g. LA) and other countries (England) are delaying elections, and wouldn't extending that practice be nice for aspiring dictator, Chief Squawattle (who needs to stay in his Offal Office to stay out of prison)?
 

Richard Stanley

Well-Known Member
Since there are those on both sides asserting that Covid-19 is a bioweapon, this reminds one of the classic crime scenarios when two criminals in league with each other blame each other, or even better, they both separately admit to the crime. Or, the two kill each others' spouses in a 'perfect crime scenario.

Not only does the USA have a liability issue with Social Security, Medicare, and such, but so does China as a result of its decades long 1-child policy, worsened by the favoritism towards boys over girls.

Meanwhile, we see that despite the national emergency declaration, many people have yet to take the matter seriously. The young seem to be figuring that this is a problem for us geezers, so they're still partying like its 1999. Lot's of really bad advice is still being given out by most all the news media, left and right. My Trumpists are 'hunkering down', but they still think this is barely more than another flu. Instead of social distancing, people are crowded together en masse in even domestic airports, not just Americans trying to return home in foreign airports.

If so few understand the seriousness, how could they ever think about this being a bioweapon, especially in a perfect crime scenario?

Could such really be the case, between such historic 'enemies'? 'Communist' China has trillions of American dollars in investment capital, and the USA and the EU are its best customers, making many Chinese very rich. And, Agent Orange has told us what great friends he is with Chairman Xi. Just saying.
 

Jerry Russell

Administrator
Staff member
Since there are those on both sides asserting that Covid-19 is a bioweapon,
The Saker today pointed out that Zhao Lijian was quoting Global Research when he made his tweet. So, their evidence is the same as we're looking at. Which is to say, not very good evidence at all. Suggestive at best. Also, even if the virus originated somewhere else than China, it doesn't prove whether or not it was lab-created.

Saker thinks it's more likely that this is a naturally evolved organism, or perhaps an accidental release. He explains:

The truth is that there are very few military scenarios in which the use of WMD makes sense, this is true for all three of them, but this is especially true for biowarfare which is the hardest of them to control.
Here I have to, again, remind everybody that war is never an end by itself, but only a means towards an end, and that end is always POLITICAL. Going in just to kill people and even bombing a country back to the stone age does NOT qualify as a political goal. If you prefer, the political goal is what ought to be defined as “victory”. So, again, “destroying all enemy ships” or “pulling off a decapitating anti-leadership strike” are NOT political goals.
 

Richard Stanley

Well-Known Member
The scenario(s) I'm speculating on are not traditional country versus country, but rather shepherd versus flock, or collaborating shepherds versus flocks. In these cases the end is indeed addressing economic problems in one or both countries, using the other as a scapegoat. And, in the case of the USA, depending upon incredible seeming incompetency, obsequiousness, and supposed hatred of Obama in reversing programs and policies. These appear to me as convenient yet plausibly deniable shields.

Trump can claim ignorance of how a virus can spread exponentially, but Fauci can't. If Martenson can find published data that shows the danger of this virus early on, how can US government experts hide behind that the CDC didn't get to go to Wuhan?

Note in the following that China is shifting its economic focus relating to now excess 'second class' migrant workers from the countryside.


The following is some interesting analysis from India Today. A conspiracy claim about a Chinese worker at a Canadian biolab shows a picture that is claimed to be of the woman being escorted out of the building. Instead, the two women are smiling in nice dresses and both holding one award.

 
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Richard Stanley

Well-Known Member
After Agent Orange told everyone that insurance companies would cover all the insured patients' Covid-19 costs, we find out that this was another misstatement (lie?). Turns out that insurance patients will have to make their copayments for testing, and that the insurance companies will not pay for anything else related to Covid-19 copayments for subsequent treatment may still leave a balance for many that can wipe them out.

Only in America.

 
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Emma Robertson

Active Member
The Chinese say that this pandemic originated in America
Yes, I know. They have pushed that after a republican US senator accused them of creating the virus in a lab. That was very unfortunate. It does not lead us anywhere with conspiracy theories, only to China rejecting its own responsibility for allowing such bad eating habits. It is very convenient for China to accuse the US to fabricate the virus so it won't have nothing to pay for the damages it is causing. Remember that China itself has informed us to believe that the virus originated in a wet market in Wuhan. Only now they are pushing that conspiracy theory.

You might erase their pictures, but you won't erase their responsibility.
 
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Jerry Russell

Administrator
Staff member
The scenario(s) I'm speculating on are not traditional country versus country, but rather shepherd versus flock, or collaborating shepherds versus flocks.
Indeed, it seems that the Wuhan biolab was involved in extensive international cooperation, both overt and covert. It may have been framed in terms of humanitarian research into vaccination technology. But there's only a very thin line between medical research, and biological weapons research.

Part of the narrative as it's unfolding, is that the Chinese authoritarian government system was far more successful in containing the virus than the West. The Chinese were able to stop the epidemic in its tracks very quickly in every city outside of Hubei Province.

Remember that China itself has informed us to believe that the virus originated in a wet market in Wuhan. Only now they are pushing that conspiracy theory.
According to the Chinese narrative, they initially assumed that the wet market was the source. But as they searched for "Patient Zero", they say they found that many of the earliest cases had no connection to the wet market.

The rest of the story emerged only when sequence data for the virus emerged from American labs, testing samples from American patients. They found that the ancestral strain of the virus existed in the USA even though it is very rare in China. And that the USA has more genetic diversity of the coronavirus, than anywhere else in the world. Yes, these claims have been written up in papers by Chinese scientists, but based on American data.

Even this isn't necessarily a conspiracy theory. The virus could have originated naturally here, and been exported accidentally. It's been noted that the American athletic team at the Miltary World Games performed unusually poorly. Maybe they were sick?

It does not lead us anywhere with conspiracy theories, only to China rejecting its own responsibility for allowing such bad eating habits.
What is the point in jumping to conclusions?

You didn't answer my question, what steps would you take to force the Chinese to "accept responsibility" and to pay reparations?

Do you see that disagreement over these unproven, speculative narratives could become a cause for war?
 

Jerry Russell

Administrator
Staff member
the insurance companies will not pay for anything else related to Covid-19.
Cold comfort perhaps, but the video only says that copayments will be required as usual. These copayments could easily be big enough to bankrupt many insured Americans; not to mention threatened expenses to the uninsured.
 

Richard Stanley

Well-Known Member
Yes, you're right. I'm watching too many of these things. I corrected my original.

This still leaves the ~30 million uninsured whom the virus will not respect, where this pool will continue to infect the insured populace and drain the insurance companies' profits and viability.

Emma also did not answer my question. Does this mean silence is consent? Her oeuvre here is starting to remind me of her kinsman, Pat.
 
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Richard Stanley

Well-Known Member
Meanwhile, even after Agent Orange has declared a national emergency, Faux News is allowing such as Jerry Falwell Jr. to come on and claim that this is all a continuation of the attacks on Agent Orange. Supposedly, Faux News issued a memo prior to legally distance themselves in case anybody decides to sue them over some relative that ends up dying as a consequence of such statements.
...
One day after Fox News executives sent a memo to staffers emphasizing the network's duty to keep its viewers informed with accurate information about the coronavirus crisis, Fox & Friends guest Jerry Falwell Jr. suggested the North Koreans worked in concert with China to create the virus specifically to harm America.
Falwell, who is the president of Liberty University and a top supporter of President Donald Trump, was asked how felt about the mass cancellations of schools and universities. After saying students have begged his school not to shut down, Falwell noted they’ve just eliminated large crowds before taking aim at the “overreaction” to the pandemic.
“You know, it's just strange to me how so many are overreacting,” the evangelical leader declared. “The H1N1 virus, in 2009, killed 17,000 people. It was the flu, also, I think. And there was not the same hype. It was—you just didn't see it on the news 24/7. And it makes you wonder if there's a political reason for that.” ...

Well, Emma, at least Faux News and Jerry Falwell Jr. don't believe that poor little bats are responsible. But then Falwell's father believed that the Korean Rev. Moon was greater than Jesus.
 

Jerry Russell

Administrator
Staff member
Bizarre that Falwell Jr. can simultaneously believe that the coronavirus is a Korean + Chinese bioweapon; and at the same time, that it's just another flu, and that people are overreacting.
 

Richard Stanley

Well-Known Member
Been seeing reports that there was $26 billion in insider selling last year, the highest since the year 2000. Also interesting is that well over 1,000 CEOs have quit between last year and now. The skuttlebutt is that this is getting ahead of their knowledge and hiding of malfeasance, and foreknowledge that a reset was coming, now apparently here.
 

Seeker

Well-Known Member
Wow, 2020 is really turning out to be an ominous year so far, what with all of the fatalities, enforced isolation, shutdowns, supply shortages, curfews, etc., as a result of the coronavirus, and the resultant humongous stock market plunge, with the President now saying that this may last until July or August. This is about the time that the Presidential nominating conventions occur, if the Presidential elections are not cancelled too this year?
 

Richard Stanley

Well-Known Member
Kim Iverson discusses some interesting aspects of the bioweapon possibility. For one, she mentions that Italy had signed up for China's Silk Road initiative early last year. Iran, which had already been a partner, is shown in a graphic showing the rather disproportionate numbers of cases compared to all of its neighbors.

She ponders if we have now become blowback collateral damage, while also missing that, even if true, that most of the collateral damage will be a reduction in entitlement program liabilities, and that such collateral damage helps muddy the waters.

She also provides a brief history of the extensive American biowarfare programs from colonial times till today.

 

Richard Stanley

Well-Known Member
Been seeing reports that there was $26 billion in insider selling last year, the highest since the year 2000. Also interesting is that well over 1,000 CEOs have quit between last year and now. The skuttlebutt is that this is getting ahead of their knowledge and hiding of malfeasance, and foreknowledge that a reset was coming, now apparently here.
The following is a 'prophetic' article from a couple of weeks ago (albeit after the first major 10% correction) with all the underlying data, and the comment that one doesn't ordinarily think of CEO's retiring en masse when the economy and stock market are booming. The previous highs in retirements were during the Bush/Obama financial crisis.

https://www.ccn.com/ceos-quitting-in-record-numbers-could-signal-total-stock-market-collapse/
 
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