Coronavirus epidemic news

Jerry Russell

Administrator
Staff member
At this point there wouldn't be much hope of getting the HCQ-positive news into Wikipedia. The sources are mostly journals and articles from outside the US and Europe, or sources that would be judged unreliable because of alleged political bias. Any editors who dared to challenge the MSM consensus on this matter would get drawn & quartered by the admins.

The Wikipedia article does seem to be describing Immanuel's spiritual and religious views correctly, including her attacks on homosexuality and concerns about sexual relations with demons, as she confirms at her Twitter page. But is this really so much different from evangelical fundamentalist Christianity?

 

Seeker

Well-Known Member
But is this really so much different from evangelical fundamentalist Christianity?
Isaiah 7:14 King James Version (KJV) 14 Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel.

Hmmm, gender shenanigans going on here, or am I dreaming about all of this?

I think that if I were an evangelical fundamentalist Christian minister (like David Icke, I am sure :rolleyes:, leapin' lizards!), I would be trumpeting (pardon the pun) from my pulpit that 2020 was the year of the Beast and the False Prophet (just kidding, I have been reading too much of the biting sarcasm of Juvenal lately, thanks to Richard).
 

Claude Badley

Registered Guest
Fascist
Yes, Jerry, I admit that Joe seems to consider covid-19 merely a farce...
Claude, I didn't see these doctors say that covid-19 is a farce, or that it's just another flu.
...which term can readily be misconstrued as to there being no infectious agent at all, implying that everything is mere hype and hysteria. So I have to accept that inference, even though I accept that the COVID-19 malaise is another version of a respiratory virus causing what are termed "influenzas".
What I did see is that they consider themselves "evidence based", which seems to mean that they believe "evidence" comes only from double blinded clinical trials.
It has to be that way because of anecdote and suggestibility. Doctors have held onto misconceptions for prolonged periods and for perverted reasons, so it is often very difficult to establish the truth.

For example, Sweden has (or had in the late 1970s) the world's highest consumption of coffee. Surgeons there, from their experience, suspected a link between bowel cancer and coffee in that the latter was a causative agent for the former. A large study was conducted (not double-blind of course) of coffee consumption and bowel cancer incidence. While the researchers found that the few people who did not drink coffee at all had a slightly decreased incidence of bowel cancer, those with the highest consumption of coffee had the LEAST bowel cancer, apparent due, in retrospect, to the shortened intestinal transit due to the coffee consumption.

I.e. the coffee was protecting against bowel cancer - exactly the opposite situation to the surgeons' observations!!!!!

Thus we are always trying to explain data in different ways in order to establish genuine theoretical understanding.
Anything else is just "anecdotes" or "information" or maybe just "theory". But that doesn't stop them from indulging in all sorts of speculations, after acknowledging that there's precious little evidence about covid that's in the form of double blinded clinical trials.
So it certainly true what you say, but this does not deal with the bigger issues of COVID-19.

Firstly, the disease is very deadly only to the very elderly. The disruption of social life among the young, let alone the mass unemployment and earnings fall, is not worth the extreme lockdown restrictions imposed. The death toll overall is under 2% of those infected, and while occasional babies and younger people are killed by the disease, this was true of other illnesses, other flu epidemics in the past, so does not justify the control and manipulation of the general population. It should be evident to you by now that this is an agenda created by the elites to magnify a relatively minor illness out of all proportion so that the further creation of a mass underclass - the underclass now to become the majority - can be created as an effectively permanent condition, especially now that public school (i.e. non-private) education is being destroyed entirely.

As for the COVID tests, you yourself revealed the extra 4-base DNA insertion that led to this virus. The problem here particularly is that the antibodies tested for in COVID tests are almost certainly cross-reactive with other forms of flu, meaning that those who test positive are false positive, leading to unnecessary quarantine. For those PCR-type tests which detect the virus, one wonders whether they are testing the actual 4-base insertion or a more general DNA sequence characteristic of more types of virus, especially when most of the positive results are from people who are asymptomatic - making contact testing well nigh impossible.

It may also be that some people are carriers of virus for a long time, and may test positive for COVID via PCR due to the use of a PCR-test not specific for the 4-base pair insertion. IOW we are being hyped up by an elite-driven hysteria. This disease is not the Spanish Flu, nor Smallpox, nor TB - and the amount of money wasted on it is obscene, given that MAI-tuberculosis in the 1990s was NOT treated by confining in sanatoria as was done for ordinary TB in the 1950s (due to "financial constraints")!

COVID-19 is at best a distraction, distracting us from the war being prepared by the Western elites to attack China and Russia, blaming China for COVID and Russia for having ensured Assad's victory over the Al-Qaida based 'Free Syrian Army'.

Yours faithfully
Claude
 

Jerry Russell

Administrator
Staff member
It should be evident to you by now that this is an agenda created by the elites to magnify a relatively minor illness out of all proportion...
I agree there's an agenda created by the elites, and that it's playing out more or less as you say. I doubt that the IFR is even as high as 2%. But it's much higher than a typical seasonal flu. It's reasonable to think that such a high fatality rate deserves a public policy response of some sort.

So I'm not buying into a right-wing narrative saying that this a farce which liberals are too stupid to recognize. It's a real threat that should have been recognized and dealt with before it escaped from China.

The problem here particularly is that the antibodies tested for in COVID tests are almost certainly cross-reactive with other forms of flu, meaning that those who test positive are false positive, leading to unnecessary quarantine.
If this is the case, then why do the rates of positive results vary tremendously from place to place? In New York, I understand that somewhere close to 20% of the population test positive for covid-19. In Telluride, Colorado at the end of March, they had tested 4,757 people (everyone they could get from the entire town) and found only 26 clear positives. So how could this test have a far higher false positive rate than 0.5%?

At any rate, the designers and vendors of these tests are well aware of the possibility of cross-sensitivity to other viruses, and they say it isn't an issue. It's only the CDC that claims this is a big problem.
 

Claude Badley

Registered Guest
Fascist
Well, Jerry, I am glad you admit the very low death rate...
I agree there's an agenda created by the elites, and that it's playing out more or less as you say. I doubt that the IFR is even as high as 2%. But it's much higher than a typical seasonal flu. It's reasonable to think that such a high fatality rate deserves a public policy response of some sort.

So I'm not buying into a right-wing narrative saying that this a farce which liberals are too stupid to recognize. It's a real threat that should have been recognized and dealt with before it escaped from China.
...but you seem not to realize that its latent period, asymptomatic effects and ready transmissibility (which is probably through aerosol particles as well as contact) enabled it to escape such controls, as we also see with seasonal flu. Were it a truly severe disease like TB, yellow fever, or Marburg, lockdowns would be mandatory and all would be calling for it and acting upon it since it would be a real threat to human life. (You only have to read the stories of yellow fever in the USA, where visitors from areas with the condition were run out of town or shot at - until the vector question was solved and they found that by pouring oil-&-kerosene into the water towers one could prevent the mozzies from breeding in them). COVID-19 is nothing like this - merely a public nuisance, the deaths mainly from the elderly in nursing homes.

You perhaps do not know that in olden days before penicillin, pneumonia was called "the old man's friend" as it led to a relatively peaceful death.

I wrote above that "The problem here particularly is that the antibodies tested for in COVID tests are almost certainly cross-reactive with other forms of flu, meaning that those who test positive are false positive, leading to unnecessary quarantine."
If this is the case, then why do the rates of positive results vary tremendously from place to place? In New York, I understand that somewhere close to 20% of the population test positive for covid-19. In Telluride, Colorado at the end of March, they had tested 4,757 people (everyone they could get from the entire town) and found only 26 clear positives. So how could this test have a far higher false positive rate than 0.5%?
Epidemic infections, like COVID-19, seasonal flus and the Spanish Flu did not and do not strike down people everywhere. Those living in rural areas often escape epidemics from their mere isolation from larger communities - unlike cities which are hotbeds of spread.

Telluride, as I see from Google Earth, is off the beaten track (i.e. the main highways) so lacks the cosmopolitanism of popular Colorado destinations like Denver, Pikes Peak (Colorado Springs) or Aspen and thus the ready tendency for easy and rapid asymptomatic spread. (Other causes for such differences are foundation effects in sedentary populations, i.e. the people of the town are largely related, hence there will be idiosyncratic population antibody responses). Nor do you mention whether there was any flu outbreak in the town - if not, then it was a population testing revealing a 0.5% positive rate, without evident infections. Meaning what???

I note from your link to Telluride testing, that PCR was used to confirm what was actually tested more extensively by the ELISA method (Enzyme-Linked ImmunoSorbent Assay) - a test that does NOT test for the virus itself but for antibodies to it. The problem is: COVID-19 will cross-react with other Coronavirus, and this is not only because of the non-specificity for COVID-19, but because different individuals themselves make different antibodies to the one condition, some less effective, some more effective. The ELISA tests will thus react more among people who have had other flu infections - and likely in those who have had previous flu shots too, making interpretation all the more difficult. What we are getting here is doctors chasing test results for populations without considering the patients themselves in Telluride. It is very likely too that Telluride's population has missed out on seasonal flus in previous decades because of its relative isolation - so its antibody positivity, resulting from long-term immunity from previous bouts of flu, may well be lower than that of city populations!

Also by the time the infection - not just COVID-19 but other types of flu - reaches places like Telluride it has already undergone modification, mutation to a less lethal form of the disease (as did HIV).
At any rate, the designers and vendors of these tests are well aware of the possibility of cross-sensitivity to other viruses, and they say it isn't an issue. It's only the CDC that claims this is a big problem.
The designers and vendors are hardly the ones to judge, being innocently as well as deliberately culpable for misrepresentation (and yes, I do not agree with Joe who had condemned the CDC as agenda-driven too readily)!

Nevertheless, I remember when Cimetidine, the anti-histamine-beta receptor antagonist, was released in Australia in 1979 as an anti-acid, and duodenal ulcer therapy. They trumpeted it as having no side effects. It was injected straight into intensive-care patients' veins. In two cases, I saw a marked bradycardia after this and deduced that cimetidine slowed the heart rate. Injecting this stuff would not be done now, since it caused many hearts to stop dead and the patient die right there - but this fact didn't come out for another 3 years or so, after the drug had been used on hundreds of thousands of people.

The mass unemployment and loss of income created by the COVID-19 scare-&-lockdown outweighs the medical disadvantages of the spread of another flu virus - the whole maintained by the media hype over the issue. That the COVID-19 tests came into being immediately after the infection began implies US-Big Pharma complicity in the creation of the virus, even though PCR done on the appropriate region of the virus should detect it. I.e. the reliability of the tests was not yet certain, so the initial worry - especially after the death of the young Chinese doctor in Wuhan who first raised the alarm - was justified. However, the horrific death toll has not eventuated. What is happening instead is that anyone testing positive in a nursing home who subsequently dies is labelled a COVID-19 death in order to manipulate the statistics and thus the masses for bland passive acceptance of their emerging underclass status - this assured by the ongoing social chaos from continuous outbreaks of the disease after the end of lockdowns. This will also occur also because many people will probably become carriers for the condition, ensuring low-level transmission all the time, and thus repeated outbreaks leading to nursing home deaths, bouts of severe unemployment and discontinuity in education as the results.

And this is what the Frankfurt School, Einstein's backers (the ideological ones like Sir Karl Popper and George Soros, not just the Zionists) and all the other Judaeo-Christian elites want nowadays - a poverty-stricken rabble in the wake of the curbing of higher education and its restriction to the wealthier elites (whereas 50-150 years ago universal education was promoted) and the resulting mass befuddlement in order to control the masses through scare tactics and utter confusion, rendering them helpless and suggestible, especially so that they do not and cannot rise up in opposition to Western governments when a 'Gulf of Tonkin-like' incident threatens to trigger WW3. The elites - while more than happy to let the moronic majority indulge their stupidity :rolleyes: in exercising their vote in futile Democrat-versus-Republican, Australian Labor Party-versus-Liberal National Party bipolar elections - actually want the masses to die off from nuclear fallout quietly rather than creating any fuss!* :eek:

Yours faithfully
Claude

* And this agenda I am describing in the last paragraph is that of liberals, of libertarians, left and right, the Far Left being too blinkered and stupid to understand, leaving only the Far Right to call it out! Hence the elite support for BLM to distract the Far Right from understanding the Judaeo-Christian agenda and so from breaking with Evangelical Christianity which upholds the Judaeo-Christian (= Zionist) hypocrisy. Instead, by pumping up BLM, the elites want a race war between the Far Right "Aryan Christians" and Black Americans to distract the masses from the real issue, i.e. leaving the halfwit-bigot Evangelical Christians with their sanctimonious supposedly anti-racist "Chosen People" ideology in place as the unchallengeable elite and ruling agenda in order to protect the Zionist Jewish elite and so "save the persecuted minorities". (Why do I even have to say it? I would have thought this obvious to you, Jerry! ;)) IOW it is NOT the leading liberals (in the classic libertarian sense) who "are too stupid to recognize" the farcical situation, but rather the Far Left!
 
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Jerry Russell

Administrator
Staff member
Claude, you seem to have this in common with Joe: you are willing to engage in factual distortions, to support the position that lockdowns are a policy error. With a more realistic appraisal of the situation, one might still feel strongly that lockdowns are an inappropriate response. But it's much more of an ethically difficult question, and not so easy to dismiss those who disagree as "blinkered and stupid".

The facts are important, because as you say "Were it a truly severe disease like TB, yellow fever, or Marburg, lockdowns would be mandatory and all would be calling for it and acting upon it since it would be a real threat to human life." So your opposition to lockdowns is not absolute or based on some appeal to abstract notions such as human rights. The questions of free will or economic costs would be irrelevant if, in fact, "all" could agree that the disease itself was just too dangerous to ignore.

Conversely, hardly anyone has ever called for lockdowns and other draconian measures in response to ordinary seasonal flu viruses. So if indeed it's true that covid-19 is just another flu bug, then obviously only blinkered and stupid people, or people with a hidden agenda, would still be pushing for lockdowns.

My view of the situation is that covid-19 is somewhere between the "truly severe diseases" and ordinary flu viruses. And in making that comparison, I think it's important to note that the fatality rate of ordinary seasonal flu has been dramatically exaggerated by the CDC and pharmaceutical industry, in an effort to sell vaccines. It seems clear that the fatality numbers for flu are not actual case counts at all, but rather they're estimated based on very questionable assumptions.

COVID-19 is nothing like this - merely a public nuisance, the deaths mainly from the elderly in nursing homes.
Not entirely true. In the US about 20% of deaths have been in patients less than age 65. There is also the matter of severe long-term damage suffered by the survivors. Information on the latter problem is largely anecdotal so far. But many victims of the disease are in the hospital for months, and it seems reasonable to think that they're never going to be the same again. Even those with "mild" cases are telling harrowing, painful stories of long-lasting disability.

...but you seem not to realize that its latent period, asymptomatic effects and ready transmissibility (which is probably through aerosol particles as well as contact) enabled it to escape such controls, as we also see with seasonal flu.
On the contrary, countries such as China seem to have succeeded in controlling the coronavirus. Admittedly the methods used were draconian. But it's arguably far less painful in the long run, to take effective measures as early as possible. Australia almost had it under control, and then gave up the struggle too early. Same thing here in Lane County, Oregon: the virus was virtually extinct here last May, and now it's roaring back.

Telluride, as I see from Google Earth, is off the beaten track (i.e. the main highways) so lacks the cosmopolitanism of popular Colorado destinations like Denver, Pikes Peak (Colorado Springs) or Aspen
I guess it's a local secret, not widely known in Australia. The relative inaccessibility only adds to the appeal of this exotic ski destination. Nobody drives there, but the Hollywood stars and insiders fly in to the local airport with their Lear Jets and daredevil private pilots. Upper middle class poseurs arrive at a commercial airstrip 60 miles away, and take the tour bus to the ski lifts. There's a reason why this was chosen as the location for the ELISA pilot test program: a combination of high risk and wealthy elite connections.

The designers and vendors are hardly the ones to judge, being innocently as well as deliberately culpable for misrepresentation (and yes, I do not agree with Joe who had condemned the CDC as agenda-driven too readily)!
The difference is that the vendors not only acknowledge the possible problem, but also claim to have carried out a legitimate scientific effort to test their products and objectively present the results. Whereas, the CDC simply makes ungrounded assertions to the contrary. I wish that we had some objective watchdog agency or independent consumer group doing their own testing.

...ongoing social chaos from continuous outbreaks of the disease after the end of lockdowns... will also occur also because many people will probably become carriers for the condition, ensuring low-level transmission all the time, and thus repeated outbreaks leading to nursing home deaths, bouts of severe unemployment and discontinuity in education as the results.
Indeed, a very difficult predicament! And, one which certain psychopathic elite individuals might find highly profitable.

Why rule out the possibility that the deliberate (or accidental-on-purpose) release of a deadly (but not too deadly) lab-created virus has been part of the plan all along?
 

Claude Badley

Registered Guest
Fascist
I'll ignore the first part of the quote in yellow!
Claude, you seem to have this in common with Joe: you are willing to engage in factual distortions, to support the position that lockdowns are a policy error. With a more realistic appraisal of the situation, one might still feel strongly that lockdowns are an inappropriate response. But it's much more of an ethically difficult question, and not so easy to dismiss those who disagree as "blinkered and stupid".
Life is always a trade-off between undesirable opposites. The Chinese made a judgment call based on the young doctor who died - so I too supported the lockdown initially, but it soon became apparent that the lockdown was causing more distress than the disease itself. We see it now in Australia with the surging case numbers in Melbourne - since the authorities are obsessed with testing, without understanding what asymptomatic ELISA-COVID positive test results imply! And so the hysteria mounts - without the massive death toll predicted by the hysteria-mongers.
The facts are important, because as you say "Were it a truly severe disease like TB, yellow fever, or Marburg, lockdowns would be mandatory and all would be calling for it and acting upon it since it would be a real threat to human life." So your opposition to lockdowns is not absolute or based on some appeal to abstract notions such as human rights. The questions of free will or economic costs would be irrelevant if, in fact, "all" could agree that the disease itself was just too dangerous to ignore.
Obviously so.
Conversely, hardly anyone has ever called for lockdowns and other draconian measures in response to ordinary seasonal flu viruses. So if indeed it's true that covid-19 is just another flu bug, then obviously only blinkered and stupid people, or people with a hidden agenda, would still be pushing for lockdowns.
The blinkered and stupid are the ordinary American-New-Deal-definition liberals, who preach egalitarianism due to their hypertrophied belief in levelling; they are now presiding over crumbling Western economies due to their blinkered stance.
My view of the situation is that covid-19 is somewhere between the "truly severe diseases" and ordinary flu viruses. And in making that comparison, I think it's important to note that the fatality rate of ordinary seasonal flu has been dramatically exaggerated by the CDC and pharmaceutical industry, in an effort to sell vaccines. It seems clear that the fatality numbers for flu are not actual case counts at all, but rather they're estimated based on very questionable assumptions.
I concur here in that scaremongering sells, but COVID-19 is just another seasonal flu - but one that had to be exaggerated in order to distract the masses from the Western elites' true agenda. They have not and will not forget Putin's successful intervention in Syria, but for the future want to rely on nuclear and other weapons rather than soldiery, hence the mass of people are "surplus to requirements" and the backing of halfwit-leveller groups like BLM serve to break up the White majority - the only group upon which a successful overthrow of Judaeo-Christianity could be based - into warring groups (Evangelicals versus Aryan Christians most of all) in order to maintain Zionist control at all costs.

The COVID-19 scare is needed to keep the masses hyped-up and uncertain so that the superficial rabble-rousing* outlook of BLM and like-minded groups can continue to dominate the public mind, passivizing them and so rendering them susceptible and accepting toward the approaching nuclear war. Einstein was long part of this agenda when, on the very weekend of the Wall Street Crash, he described humans as entirely passive and controlled by an "invisible piper", a stance denying human agency and thus the human capacity to think and so not be dominated by Zionist hypocrites and pseudo-scientific snake oil salesmen like himself.

As for deaths in the non-elderly...
Not entirely true. In the US about 20% of deaths have been in patients less than age 65. There is also the matter of severe long-term damage suffered by the survivors. Information on the latter problem is largely anecdotal so far. But many victims of the disease are in the hospital for months, and it seems reasonable to think that they're never going to be the same again. Even those with "mild" cases are telling harrowing, painful stories of long-lasting disability.
...these are hyped-up by the media all the time. Many are infants, where the virus weeds out those with immune deficiencies and hidden bodily defects. Also forgotten here is that young people who live on the street are vulnerable because of their marginal underfed existence anyway! Nobody can do anything about that since, e.g. with California Proposition #13, public schooling was delinked from property sales, helping massively to create the underclass, without which the US capitalist system cannot survive.

So since the masses are so discardable in the USA - as the votes affirming Proposition #13 reveal in their middle class domination - the media-hyped concern over COVID deaths among the non-nursing-home poor is hypocritical in the extreme.

The China case is different due to the young doctor's death - making it appear that COVID-19 was a truly lethal disease.
On the contrary, countries such as China seem to have succeeded in controlling the coronavirus. Admittedly the methods used were draconian. But it's arguably far less painful in the long run, to take effective measures as early as possible. Australia almost had it under control, and then gave up the struggle too early. Same thing here in Lane County, Oregon: the virus was virtually extinct here last May, and now it's roaring back.
This crisis has dragged on over 6 months and people are sick of it. Were the healthy young dying of it people would act, but COVID is a mere seasonal flu. In fact, the lockdown in WA has succeeded even to the point that we have not had seasonal flus this year - I haven't even seen anyone with a common cold, hankies in use being for hay fever! The problem is however, that WA people are going to be locked in forever because of a minor disease - bad for me as I have a difficult relative in Sydney. I.e. the situation will be used to control and crush people for the sake of a minor epidemic.

By making people desperate, it will also make army life more attractive since the growing industry today in Australia is the munitions industry, with talk of submarines and now missiles to be manufactured in Australia. We are the victims of the elites - and COVID a way of disciplining the stupid into wanting a (comparatively well paid) job in the munitions industry. After WW3 of course when England (not Scotland nor Ireland) is obliterated and the USA falls into civil war, the Australian government (or what's left of it) will have Malaysia and Indonesia to deal with for having supported Israel's attacks on Moslem lands! Perhaps only then will Judaeo-Christianity be extirpated one and for all.
I guess it's a local secret, not widely known in Australia. The relative inaccessibility only adds to the appeal of this exotic ski destination. Nobody drives there, but the Hollywood stars and insiders fly in to the local airport with their Lear Jets and daredevil private pilots. Upper middle class poseurs arrive at a commercial airstrip 60 miles away, and take the tour bus to the ski lifts. There's a reason why this was chosen as the location for the ELISA pilot test program: a combination of high risk and wealthy elite connections.
(Hmm! Reminds me then of Hotham Heights and Mallacoota Inlet in Victoria where the elites fly in) So is this situation also a relatively new one (<5 years) or a long-established elite tradition? I knew of Telluride only because of its obvious mining connection due to the name - so I wonder whether there is much or barely any interaction with the locals given that the rich are bussed to the ski-lifts from 60 miles away. (No doubt the locals would have benefitted originally from jobs provided by building the ski facilities etc. but I presume that that is pre-COVID).
The difference is that the vendors not only acknowledge the possible problem, but also claim to have carried out a legitimate scientific effort to test their products and objectively present the results. Whereas, the CDC simply makes ungrounded assertions to the contrary. I wish that we had some objective watchdog agency or independent consumer group doing their own testing.
The CDC has different ideas and groups within it. They have already noticed that the massive predicted death tolls have not eventuated - quite apart from the misclassification of nursing home deaths as due to COVID. As for the vendors of the tests, they want to have as many tests as possible and keep the COVID hype going, because it is such an excellent source of loot! :D

But I am happy that you agree about the chronic COVID issue and the problem of carriers - as we already have with colds and seasonal flu (though we cannot be as happy as the vendors of the tests are!):rolleyes:
Indeed, a very difficult predicament! And, one which certain psychopathic elite individuals might find highly profitable.

Why rule out the possibility that the deliberate (or accidental-on-purpose) release of a deadly (but not too deadly) lab-created virus has been part of the plan all along?
I fully agree - but the manufacturing and accidental-or-deliberate release of the virus can have unpredictable effects. A mutant virus could indeed make it truly deadly - much as avian malaria mutated into the deadly falciparum malaria relatively recently - though this has not happened since usually such diseases evolve into more moderate forms! Perhaps the only good coming from the COVID hype is that it could help to train people for when a real epidemic emerges. Conversely, crying 'wolf' too often will backfire on a jaded populace.

What matters most for the long haul is to understand who is behind it and what the underlying agenda is. Judaeo-Christianity, the hypocritical pseudo-religion of the Western elites, is the principal beneficiary as the resulting COVID and economic chaos distracts and depresses the masses ever more, leading them to go back to their religious roots or join the army to fight for Israel, affirming BLM all the while but also harnessing Blacks and Aryan Christians alike to the unfounded belief that the Chinks and Ruskies are behind it all!:p

Yours faithfully
Claude

*Contrast the rabble-rousing of BLM to the understanding of Malcolm X; compare his autography and the care with which he focused at improving Blacks' attitudes towards each other, creating community without the ahistorical anarchist destruction promoted by BLM. That is why Malcolm X was assassinated and the likes of BLM promoted instead!
 
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Jerry Russell

Administrator
Staff member
Claude, you seem to have this in common with Joe: you are willing to engage in factual distortions
Specifically:

COVID-19 is just another seasonal flu
I rest my case. There's no point in discussing the rest of the above, when we can't agree on basic facts. Yes, the disease is disproportionately killing the elderly, impoverished, vitamin D deficient, immune impaired, and so forth. But without covid-19, most of those people would still be alive, even while suffering from their various chronic pre-conditions. Seasonal flu doesn't have those impacts.
 

Jerry Russell

Administrator
Staff member
There is also the matter of severe long-term damage suffered by the survivors. Information on the latter problem is largely anecdotal so far.
Finally, we have some followup data on the patients with "mild" cases of the disease. I saw this on Jimmy Dore, but I'll link directly to the medical study. Horrifying news about cardiac damage. Not the Flu.

https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamacardiology/fullarticle/2768916

Findings In this cohort study including 100 patients recently recovered from COVID-19 identified from a COVID-19 test center, cardiac magnetic resonance imaging revealed cardiac involvement in 78 patients (78%) and ongoing myocardial inflammation in 60 patients (60%), which was independent of preexisting conditions, severity and overall course of the acute illness, and the time from the original diagnosis.
 

Claude Badley

Registered Guest
Fascist
The point Jerry is that seasonal flu does have the highlighted impacts.
There's no point in discussing the rest of the above, when we can't agree on basic facts. Yes, the disease is disproportionately killing the elderly, impoverished, vitamin D deficient, immune impaired, and so forth. But without covid-19, most of those people would still be alive, even while suffering from their various chronic pre-conditions. Seasonal flu doesn't have those impacts.
It is just that young people usually recover from it - even though they might be stuck in bed for 2 or 3 weeks rather than just having headache, fevers and runny noses. And I did agree with the initial caution of the Chinese lockdown since the longer-term effects of this new COVID were unknown - especially as it could have proven deadly to the young, given the doctor's death! There are also many people who will have odd severe side effects from flu, blood clotting, strokes etc. given individual genetic variation and previous infection experience.

Australia is even considering building special hospitals for the patients here - but this has occurred only because of the ongoing severe cutbacks in bed numbers over the decades as government cutbacks in medical spending impaired patient treatment as inpatients even in normal times i.e. the system was so severely reduced in scope as to be unable to cope with even minor epidemics such as COVID. However, the returning lockdowns are creating more job losses and chaos - but now the governments don't want to supply income relief, or provide it merely as a loan!

Contrast the situation in Sweden:

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/12258908/lockdown-free-sweden-positive-coronavirus-decline-masks-pointless/

Yours faithfully
Claude

BTW: I now think I had the disease last October when I had what I thought was severe flu or Pinkeye (Hemophilus influenze conjunctivitis). COVID-19 causes anosmia and conjuncitivitis. I had both of these symptoms but what was peculiar is that I did not have a blocked nose yet I could not smell - a situation I have never had previously. So I even left the toilet unflushed for hours - something I have never done before - as well as seeing rings around lights due to the severe conjunctivitis. It took me 3 weeks to fully recover and at the start I spent three days just lying in bed.
 
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Jerry Russell

Administrator
Staff member
There are also many people who will have odd severe side effects from flu, blood clotting, strokes etc. given individual genetic variation and previous infection experience.
Yes, but do 78% of flu survivors have cardiac involvement? Can you provide a citation for that?

Here's another article highlighting differences between covid-19 and other respiratory viruses. "A virus unlike any known before", it says.

https://www.ucsf.edu/magazine/covid-body

Although it’s too early to know for sure, the virus’s fatality rate seems to be roughly 10 times that of the flu. ....
Clinicians... were seeing surprising numbers of COVID-19 patients develop heart problems – muscle weakness, inflammation, arrhythmias, even heart attacks. “We’re not used to respiratory viruses having such dire consequences on the heart in such apparently high numbers,” says cardiologist Gregory Marcus, MD, MAS ’08, UCSF’s Endowed Professor of Atrial Fibrillation Research. ....
Other specialists are also raising flags. Neurologists worry about reports of COVID-19 patients with headaches, “brain fog,” loss of the sense of smell, dizziness, delirium, and, in rare cases, stroke. Nephrologists worry about kidney stress and failure. Hepatologists worry about liver injuries. Ophthalmologists worry about pink eye. Pediatricians, meanwhile, worry about a peculiar COVID-related inflammatory syndrome that’s showing up in kids and young adults. ...
Contrast the situation in Sweden:
The good news is, it looks like the pandemic has burned itself out there. The bad news is that there doesn't seem to have been much economic benefit.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/07/business/sweden-economy-coronavirus.html

Not only have thousands more people died than in neighboring countries that imposed lockdowns, but Sweden’s economy has fared little better.
“They literally gained nothing,” said Jacob F. Kirkegaard, a senior fellow at the Peterson Institute for International Economics in Washington. “It’s a self-inflicted wound, and they have no economic gains.”...
Despite the government’s decision to allow the domestic economy to roll on, Swedish businesses are stuck with the same conditions that produced recession everywhere else. And Swedish people responded to the fear of the virus by limiting their shopping — not enough to prevent elevated deaths, but enough to produce a decline in business activity.
Here is one takeaway with potentially universal import: It is simplistic to portray government actions such as quarantines as the cause of economic damage. The real culprit is the virus itself. From Asia to Europe to the Americas, the risks of the pandemic have disrupted businesses while prompting people to avoid shopping malls and restaurants, regardless of official policy.
 

Richard Stanley

Well-Known Member
The good news is that we've hopefully learned the value of naturally and unnaturally boosting our immune systems, including such that they will not over-respond with cytokine storms. This does seem to be born out by the poor health lifestyles of most Americans. With the exception of the outrageous HCQ psyop to boost Big Pharma boondoggle profits, doctors are fine-tuning treatments to deal with the nastier effects of Covid-19.

As such, we may not even need HCQ if we are properly prophylactorily zinc-loading and getting our optimal vitamin D, etc.. Albeit, this may make some of us excessively horny.

The Vietnamese, a population of 96 million(?), claim to have zero Covid-19 fatalities and only several hundreds of infections. Why? Besides having far better socialized medicine (97% coverage) than China, they also strongly prefer their home grown robusta coffee beans, while the rest of the world has shifted to arabica beans. Well, there it is folks. You can't argue with this. Don't even try.
 

Claude Badley

Registered Guest
Fascist
I think you're wise to my color-coding now, in that the RED highlight I disagree with, the PURPLE highlight I use for the importance of the issue [and to delimit the meaning if an insert], BLUE where you highlight something I agree with (but hadn't highlighted or even thought of myself) and YELLOW for less important material not dealt with in my reply.:D

I am a retired doctor and have been out of it for two decades so I cannot give a properly informed reply to what you say below.
Yes, but do 78% of flu [COVID-19] survivors have cardiac involvement? Can you provide a citation for that?

Here's another article highlighting differences between covid-19 and other respiratory viruses. "A virus unlike any known before", it says.

https://www.ucsf.edu/magazine/covid-body

Although it’s too early to know for sure, the virus’s fatality rate seems to be roughly 10 times that of the flu. ....
Clinicians... were seeing surprising numbers of COVID-19 patients develop heart problems – muscle weakness, inflammation, arrhythmias, even heart attacks. “We’re not used to respiratory viruses having such dire consequences on the heart in such apparently high numbers,” says cardiologist Gregory Marcus, MD, MAS ’08, UCSF’s Endowed Professor of Atrial Fibrillation Research. ....
Other specialists are also raising flags. Neurologists worry about reports of COVID-19 patients with headaches, “brain fog,” loss of the sense of smell, dizziness, delirium, and, in rare cases, stroke. Nephrologists worry about kidney stress and failure. Hepatologists worry about liver injuries. Ophthalmologists worry about pink eye. Pediatricians, meanwhile, worry about a peculiar COVID-related inflammatory syndrome that’s showing up in kids and young adults. ...
Measles too has many rare side-effects, and these too can be devastating. As for heart inflammation, this is found due to the advanced testing procedures available in our era, these not possible during the seasonal flus I had experienced in my medical years. In the case of the 'worries' at the end of your quote, specialists are trying to think up possible scenarios for the just-in-case situations, the proof for these still awaiting the unfortunates who develop the complications. Nevertheless, the underclass percentage is higher in the USA than in Sweden so I would expect a higher death percentage in the USA ultimately.

The problem with the cardiac inflammation is that it probably causes no long-term damage in most people, the features found being that of subacute inflammation - requiring bed rest due to diminished cardiac output, something the patients' own bodies are telling them anyway. Given the virus's asymptomatic spread however, lockdowns harm the economy more than the health of the members of society. The attempt to control an easily transmissible respiratory virus is not worth the effort unless the virus is shown to be very lethal to the young. As for the cardiac effects, either these are noted from academic study of unselected COVID-19 sufferers or are working on a subset of those severely symptomatic.

The good news is, it looks like the pandemic has burned itself out there. The bad news is that there doesn't seem to have been much economic benefit.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/07/business/sweden-economy-coronavirus.html

Not only have thousands more people died than in neighboring countries that imposed lockdowns, but Sweden’s economy has fared little better.
“They literally gained nothing,” said Jacob F. Kirkegaard, a senior fellow at the Peterson Institute for International Economics in Washington. “It’s a self-inflicted wound, and they have no economic gains.”...
Despite the government’s decision to allow the domestic economy to roll on, Swedish businesses are stuck with the same conditions that produced recession everywhere else. And Swedish people responded to the fear of the virus by limiting their shopping — not enough to prevent elevated deaths, but enough to produce a decline in business activity.
Here is one takeaway with potentially universal import: It is simplistic to portray government actions such as quarantines as the cause of economic damage. The real culprit is the virus itself. From Asia to Europe to the Americas, the risks of the pandemic have disrupted businesses while prompting people to avoid shopping malls and restaurants, regardless of official policy.
Sweden's economy will not benefit from COVID-19, since these viruses don't benefit anybody. Neither the USA nor any other country benefitted from COVID-19. Rather, Sweden's economy has survived with a lesser decline in economic activity - unlike other countries like the USA that instituted lockdowns. To call Sweden's actions a "self inflicted wound" is laughable given the USA's downward economic spiral and recent riots, since the death of elderly Swedes (and US citizens) frees up nursing home beds for others.

Herd immunity is being established in Sweden, though not in the USA. Sweden has of course had a higher death toll (so I wonder whether many of the dying elderly there were also misclassified as COVID-19) but the falling incidence shows that Sweden is getting through the crisis whereas the USA and especially Australia have not, the lockdowns only prolonging the agony as they have to be reinstituted due to the difficulty of containing the spread. However we can expect spikes of this COVID flu returning in most places during the winter.

What frustrates everybody is that there is no curative anti-viral pill. A vaccine then? Vaccines however, as Bill Gates unwittingly intimates to us, have become the vehicle of choice for introducing poisons and substances into the human body to ensure population reduction through induced sterility. Only in this way can we explain Gates's otherwise wacko and misinformed promotion of vaccines as the solution to overpopulation - as I saw in the video (a clip from it here) that at last proved to me Joe's contention about the malignant use of vaccination...

https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=bill+gates+on+population+control&&view=detail&mid=AC2D8693CAFFAD67D631AC2D8693CAFFAD67D631&rvsmid=4BC205D801C2B8D280914BC205D801C2B8D28091&FORM=VDRVRV

...since before it I had attributed Joe's anti-vaccination stance as misinformed due to his distress over relatives with autism, a disease with rising incidence everywhere and yet attributed merely to genetic predisposition today - a stance completely ignoring the environmental causation of the condition! Furthermore, I have not found any specific refutation or elucidcation of the vaccines-for-population-reduction claim by Gates and his fellow elites!

Yours faithfully
Claude
 
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Richard Stanley

Well-Known Member
As Madonna wears a corona crown, and the dancers are wearing gas masks, she spins around and blows upon them. They all collapse:

Not everyone is coming to the future
Not everyone is learning from the past
Not everyone can come into the future
Not everyone that's here is gonna last



 

Richard Stanley

Well-Known Member
JC discusses a May article by the New York State Bar Association calling for mandatory vaccination of all Americans, no exemptions. In this there is no mention that policies by Gov. Cuomo and Mayor De Blasio exacerbated the problems (e.g. forced premature returns to nursing homes and overcrowding the subways, etc.). Being from May, they are giving credit to making efficient use of ventilators, which killed more people than saved.

This is from the actual NYSBA paper:

766

Again, I have qued up the video to get past JC's odd preliminaries. I think he may be doing such to attempt getting fewer complaints about content, hoping the 'cancel police' will get bored.



He references this article, but you have to register with your email to see it all:

Citing a robust collection of federal and state case law, a New York State Bar Association task-force group on Thursday said it should be mandatory for all Americans to have a COVID-19 vaccination, when one is available, including those who won’t want it for “religious, philosophical or personal reasons.”
 

Jerry Russell

Administrator
Staff member
Measles too has many rare side-effects, and these too can be devastating.
Measles is also a nasty virus. If we were suddenly presented with it as a new and mysterious disease, with no vaccine available, it might inspire similar fear as covid.

Sweden's economy has survived with a lesser decline in economic activity - unlike other countries like the USA that instituted lockdowns.
The point of the article I linked, for whatever it's worth, is that Sweden's economic downturn is nearly as bad as the USA and other places with lockdowns.

Only in this way can we explain Gates's otherwise wacko and misinformed promotion of vaccines as the solution to overpopulation
I don't want to offer any general defense of Bill Gates. But in this particular video presentation, it seems clear that he is hoping that vaccinations and other humanitarian measures will lead to improved conditions for women, who will then choose to have smaller families. This is standard sociology.

JC discusses a May article by the New York State Bar Association calling for mandatory vaccination of all Americans, no exemptions.
An article in Forbes today calls for making experimental vaccines available effective immediately. If this happens, then supply limitations will mean that only citizens who want the vaccines will get them at first. Hopefully by the time production is in full swing, enough people will have the vaccines to create "herd immunity" that nobody will care about gunning down the stragglers. Or conversely, if these vaccines kill more people than the virus itself, it should be obvious soon enough.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/stevensalzberg/2020/08/02/start-vaccinating-now/#7573b059cf6e

Weighing the risks versus the benefits, I think we should immediately ramp up production, using government funds rather than private money, and then offer these vaccines for free to anyone who wants them.
Of course we’ll have to educate anyone who wants the vaccine that we don’t know for sure if it works. No one will be forced to take it, but I’m guessing that millions of people will be eager to try. And yes, there’s a chance that the vaccines won’t work very well, and maybe this will create greater distrust when we eventually do get a good vaccine. But that’s a risk we ought to take, given the greater harm caused by delays. The evidence for these trial vaccines is already better than for most of the actual treatments we’re giving people–and most importantly, we know they are safe.
So let’s start vaccinating millions of people now, as soon as we can ramp up production. I’ll be first in line to try either the Moderna or the Oxford vaccine, as soon as it’s ready.
Lemmings by the millions, yes. I'd rather take my chances with the virus.
 
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