But is this really so much different from evangelical fundamentalist Christianity?
...which term can readily be misconstrued as to there being no infectious agent at all, implying that everything is mere hype and hysteria. So I have to accept that inference, even though I accept that the COVID-19 malaise is another version of a respiratory virus causing what are termed "influenzas".Claude, I didn't see these doctors say that covid-19 is a farce, or that it's just another flu.
It has to be that way because of anecdote and suggestibility. Doctors have held onto misconceptions for prolonged periods and for perverted reasons, so it is often very difficult to establish the truth.What I did see is that they consider themselves "evidence based", which seems to mean that they believe "evidence" comes only from double blinded clinical trials.
So it certainly true what you say, but this does not deal with the bigger issues of COVID-19.Anything else is just "anecdotes" or "information" or maybe just "theory". But that doesn't stop them from indulging in all sorts of speculations, after acknowledging that there's precious little evidence about covid that's in the form of double blinded clinical trials.
It should be evident to you by now that this is an agenda created by the elites to magnify a relatively minor illness out of all proportion...
The problem here particularly is that the antibodies tested for in COVID tests are almost certainly cross-reactive with other forms of flu, meaning that those who test positive are false positive, leading to unnecessary quarantine.
...but you seem not to realize that its latent period, asymptomatic effects and ready transmissibility (which is probably through aerosol particles as well as contact) enabled it to escape such controls, as we also see with seasonal flu. Were it a truly severe disease like TB, yellow fever, or Marburg, lockdowns would be mandatory and all would be calling for it and acting upon it since it would be a real threat to human life. (You only have to read the stories of yellow fever in the USA, where visitors from areas with the condition were run out of town or shot at - until the vector question was solved and they found that by pouring oil-&-kerosene into the water towers one could prevent the mozzies from breeding in them). COVID-19 is nothing like this - merely a public nuisance, the deaths mainly from the elderly in nursing homes.I agree there's an agenda created by the elites, and that it's playing out more or less as you say. I doubt that the IFR is even as high as 2%. But it's much higher than a typical seasonal flu. It's reasonable to think that such a high fatality rate deserves a public policy response of some sort.
So I'm not buying into a right-wing narrative saying that this a farce which liberals are too stupid to recognize. It's a real threat that should have been recognized and dealt with before it escaped from China.
Epidemic infections, like COVID-19, seasonal flus and the Spanish Flu did not and do not strike down people everywhere. Those living in rural areas often escape epidemics from their mere isolation from larger communities - unlike cities which are hotbeds of spread.If this is the case, then why do the rates of positive results vary tremendously from place to place? In New York, I understand that somewhere close to 20% of the population test positive for covid-19. In Telluride, Colorado at the end of March, they had tested 4,757 people (everyone they could get from the entire town) and found only 26 clear positives. So how could this test have a far higher false positive rate than 0.5%?
The designers and vendors are hardly the ones to judge, being innocently as well as deliberately culpable for misrepresentation (and yes, I do not agree with Joe who had condemned the CDC as agenda-driven too readily)!At any rate, the designers and vendors of these tests are well aware of the possibility of cross-sensitivity to other viruses, and they say it isn't an issue. It's only the CDC that claims this is a big problem.
COVID-19 is nothing like this - merely a public nuisance, the deaths mainly from the elderly in nursing homes.
...but you seem not to realize that its latent period, asymptomatic effects and ready transmissibility (which is probably through aerosol particles as well as contact) enabled it to escape such controls, as we also see with seasonal flu.
Telluride, as I see from Google Earth, is off the beaten track (i.e. the main highways) so lacks the cosmopolitanism of popular Colorado destinations like Denver, Pikes Peak (Colorado Springs) or Aspen
The designers and vendors are hardly the ones to judge, being innocently as well as deliberately culpable for misrepresentation (and yes, I do not agree with Joe who had condemned the CDC as agenda-driven too readily)!
...ongoing social chaos from continuous outbreaks of the disease after the end of lockdowns... will also occur also because many people will probably become carriers for the condition, ensuring low-level transmission all the time, and thus repeated outbreaks leading to nursing home deaths, bouts of severe unemployment and discontinuity in education as the results.
Life is always a trade-off between undesirable opposites. The Chinese made a judgment call based on the young doctor who died - so I too supported the lockdown initially, but it soon became apparent that the lockdown was causing more distress than the disease itself. We see it now in Australia with the surging case numbers in Melbourne - since the authorities are obsessed with testing, without understanding what asymptomatic ELISA-COVID positive test results imply! And so the hysteria mounts - without the massive death toll predicted by the hysteria-mongers.Claude, you seem to have this in common with Joe: you are willing to engage in factual distortions, to support the position that lockdowns are a policy error. With a more realistic appraisal of the situation, one might still feel strongly that lockdowns are an inappropriate response. But it's much more of an ethically difficult question, and not so easy to dismiss those who disagree as "blinkered and stupid".
Obviously so.The facts are important, because as you say "Were it a truly severe disease like TB, yellow fever, or Marburg, lockdowns would be mandatory and all would be calling for it and acting upon it since it would be a real threat to human life." So your opposition to lockdowns is not absolute or based on some appeal to abstract notions such as human rights. The questions of free will or economic costs would be irrelevant if, in fact, "all" could agree that the disease itself was just too dangerous to ignore.
The blinkered and stupid are the ordinary American-New-Deal-definition liberals, who preach egalitarianism due to their hypertrophied belief in levelling; they are now presiding over crumbling Western economies due to their blinkered stance.Conversely, hardly anyone has ever called for lockdowns and other draconian measures in response to ordinary seasonal flu viruses. So if indeed it's true that covid-19 is just another flu bug, then obviously only blinkered and stupid people, or people with a hidden agenda, would still be pushing for lockdowns.
I concur here in that scaremongering sells, but COVID-19 is just another seasonal flu - but one that had to be exaggerated in order to distract the masses from the Western elites' true agenda. They have not and will not forget Putin's successful intervention in Syria, but for the future want to rely on nuclear and other weapons rather than soldiery, hence the mass of people are "surplus to requirements" and the backing of halfwit-leveller groups like BLM serve to break up the White majority - the only group upon which a successful overthrow of Judaeo-Christianity could be based - into warring groups (Evangelicals versus Aryan Christians most of all) in order to maintain Zionist control at all costs.My view of the situation is that covid-19 is somewhere between the "truly severe diseases" and ordinary flu viruses. And in making that comparison, I think it's important to note that the fatality rate of ordinary seasonal flu has been dramatically exaggerated by the CDC and pharmaceutical industry, in an effort to sell vaccines. It seems clear that the fatality numbers for flu are not actual case counts at all, but rather they're estimated based on very questionable assumptions.
...these are hyped-up by the media all the time. Many are infants, where the virus weeds out those with immune deficiencies and hidden bodily defects. Also forgotten here is that young people who live on the street are vulnerable because of their marginal underfed existence anyway! Nobody can do anything about that since, e.g. with California Proposition #13, public schooling was delinked from property sales, helping massively to create the underclass, without which the US capitalist system cannot survive.Not entirely true. In the US about 20% of deaths have been in patients less than age 65. There is also the matter of severe long-term damage suffered by the survivors. Information on the latter problem is largely anecdotal so far. But many victims of the disease are in the hospital for months, and it seems reasonable to think that they're never going to be the same again. Even those with "mild" cases are telling harrowing, painful stories of long-lasting disability.
This crisis has dragged on over 6 months and people are sick of it. Were the healthy young dying of it people would act, but COVID is a mere seasonal flu. In fact, the lockdown in WA has succeeded even to the point that we have not had seasonal flus this year - I haven't even seen anyone with a common cold, hankies in use being for hay fever! The problem is however, that WA people are going to be locked in forever because of a minor disease - bad for me as I have a difficult relative in Sydney. I.e. the situation will be used to control and crush people for the sake of a minor epidemic.On the contrary, countries such as China seem to have succeeded in controlling the coronavirus. Admittedly the methods used were draconian. But it's arguably far less painful in the long run, to take effective measures as early as possible. Australia almost had it under control, and then gave up the struggle too early. Same thing here in Lane County, Oregon: the virus was virtually extinct here last May, and now it's roaring back.
(Hmm! Reminds me then of Hotham Heights and Mallacoota Inlet in Victoria where the elites fly in) So is this situation also a relatively new one (<5 years) or a long-established elite tradition? I knew of Telluride only because of its obvious mining connection due to the name - so I wonder whether there is much or barely any interaction with the locals given that the rich are bussed to the ski-lifts from 60 miles away. (No doubt the locals would have benefitted originally from jobs provided by building the ski facilities etc. but I presume that that is pre-COVID).I guess it's a local secret, not widely known in Australia. The relative inaccessibility only adds to the appeal of this exotic ski destination. Nobody drives there, but the Hollywood stars and insiders fly in to the local airport with their Lear Jets and daredevil private pilots. Upper middle class poseurs arrive at a commercial airstrip 60 miles away, and take the tour bus to the ski lifts. There's a reason why this was chosen as the location for the ELISA pilot test program: a combination of high risk and wealthy elite connections.
The CDC has different ideas and groups within it. They have already noticed that the massive predicted death tolls have not eventuated - quite apart from the misclassification of nursing home deaths as due to COVID. As for the vendors of the tests, they want to have as many tests as possible and keep the COVID hype going, because it is such an excellent source of loot!The difference is that the vendors not only acknowledge the possible problem, but also claim to have carried out a legitimate scientific effort to test their products and objectively present the results. Whereas, the CDC simply makes ungrounded assertions to the contrary. I wish that we had some objective watchdog agency or independent consumer group doing their own testing.
I fully agree - but the manufacturing and accidental-or-deliberate release of the virus can have unpredictable effects. A mutant virus could indeed make it truly deadly - much as avian malaria mutated into the deadly falciparum malaria relatively recently - though this has not happened since usually such diseases evolve into more moderate forms! Perhaps the only good coming from the COVID hype is that it could help to train people for when a real epidemic emerges. Conversely, crying 'wolf' too often will backfire on a jaded populace.Indeed, a very difficult predicament! And, one which certain psychopathic elite individuals might find highly profitable.
Why rule out the possibility that the deliberate (or accidental-on-purpose) release of a deadly (but not too deadly) lab-created virus has been part of the plan all along?
Claude, you seem to have this in common with Joe: you are willing to engage in factual distortions
COVID-19 is just another seasonal flu
There is also the matter of severe long-term damage suffered by the survivors. Information on the latter problem is largely anecdotal so far.
It is just that young people usually recover from it - even though they might be stuck in bed for 2 or 3 weeks rather than just having headache, fevers and runny noses. And I did agree with the initial caution of the Chinese lockdown since the longer-term effects of this new COVID were unknown - especially as it could have proven deadly to the young, given the doctor's death! There are also many people who will have odd severe side effects from flu, blood clotting, strokes etc. given individual genetic variation and previous infection experience.There's no point in discussing the rest of the above, when we can't agree on basic facts. Yes, the disease is disproportionately killing the elderly, impoverished, vitamin D deficient, immune impaired, and so forth. But without covid-19, most of those people would still be alive, even while suffering from their various chronic pre-conditions. Seasonal flu doesn't have those impacts.
There are also many people who will have odd severe side effects from flu, blood clotting, strokes etc. given individual genetic variation and previous infection experience.
Contrast the situation in Sweden:
Measles too has many rare side-effects, and these too can be devastating. As for heart inflammation, this is found due to the advanced testing procedures available in our era, these not possible during the seasonal flus I had experienced in my medical years. In the case of the 'worries' at the end of your quote, specialists are trying to think up possible scenarios for the just-in-case situations, the proof for these still awaiting the unfortunates who develop the complications. Nevertheless, the underclass percentage is higher in the USA than in Sweden so I would expect a higher death percentage in the USA ultimately.Yes, but do 78% of flu [COVID-19] survivors have cardiac involvement? Can you provide a citation for that?
Here's another article highlighting differences between covid-19 and other respiratory viruses. "A virus unlike any known before", it says.
Although it’s too early to know for sure, the virus’s fatality rate seems to be roughly 10 times that of the flu. ....Clinicians... were seeing surprising numbers of COVID-19 patients develop heart problems – muscle weakness, inflammation, arrhythmias, even heart attacks. “We’re not used to respiratory viruses having such dire consequences on the heart in such apparently high numbers,” says cardiologist Gregory Marcus, MD, MAS ’08, UCSF’s Endowed Professor of Atrial Fibrillation Research. ....Other specialists are also raising flags. Neurologists worry about reports of COVID-19 patients with headaches, “brain fog,” loss of the sense of smell, dizziness, delirium, and, in rare cases, stroke. Nephrologists worry about kidney stress and failure. Hepatologists worry about liver injuries. Ophthalmologists worry about pink eye. Pediatricians, meanwhile, worry about a peculiar COVID-related inflammatory syndrome that’s showing up in kids and young adults. ...
Sweden's economy will not benefit from COVID-19, since these viruses don't benefit anybody. Neither the USA nor any other country benefitted from COVID-19. Rather, Sweden's economy has survived with a lesser decline in economic activity - unlike other countries like the USA that instituted lockdowns. To call Sweden's actions a "self inflicted wound" is laughable given the USA's downward economic spiral and recent riots, since the death of elderly Swedes (and US citizens) frees up nursing home beds for others.The good news is, it looks like the pandemic has burned itself out there. The bad news is that there doesn't seem to have been much economic benefit.
Not only have thousands more people died than in neighboring countries that imposed lockdowns, but Sweden’s economy has fared little better.“They literally gained nothing,” said Jacob F. Kirkegaard, a senior fellow at the Peterson Institute for International Economics in Washington. “It’s a self-inflicted wound, and they have no economic gains.”...Despite the government’s decision to allow the domestic economy to roll on, Swedish businesses are stuck with the same conditions that produced recession everywhere else. And Swedish people responded to the fear of the virus by limiting their shopping — not enough to prevent elevated deaths, but enough to produce a decline in business activity.Here is one takeaway with potentially universal import: It is simplistic to portray government actions such as quarantines as the cause of economic damage. The real culprit is the virus itself. From Asia to Europe to the Americas, the risks of the pandemic have disrupted businesses while prompting people to avoid shopping malls and restaurants, regardless of official policy.
Measles too has many rare side-effects, and these too can be devastating.
Sweden's economy has survived with a lesser decline in economic activity - unlike other countries like the USA that instituted lockdowns.
Only in this way can we explain Gates's otherwise wacko and misinformed promotion of vaccines as the solution to overpopulation
JC discusses a May article by the New York State Bar Association calling for mandatory vaccination of all Americans, no exemptions.
... you might just end up a dead-ender on this website!