"Belief in the holocaust is enormously more important than the christian religion"

Jerry Russell

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Nick Kollerstrom's book "Breaking the Spell" includes an introduction by James Fetzer. From this introduction:

Just so we know what we are talking about: In its broadest outlines, “the Holocaust” can be defined by means of its three primary elements, which I shall designate here as hypotheses (h1), (h2) and (h3):

(h1) that Hitler was attempting to exterminate the Jews and succeeded by putting around 6,000,000 to death;
(h2) that many of those deaths were brought about by the use of a form of cyanide gas in chambers for that purpose; and,
(h3) that the chemical agent that brought about those deaths was Zykon B, to which the victims were subjected.

The science of the Holocaust does not leave any room for doubt about (h2) and (h3), since laws of biochemistry and of materials science— laws which cannot be violated and cannot be changed— entail that the bodies of those who are put to death using cyanide turn pink, while the walls of chambers used for that purpose would turn blue. But none of the bodies from those camps has been reported to have been pink; and examination of the “gas chambers” has determined that none of them turned blue. Which means that (h2) and (h3) are not simply false but have been scientifically refuted.
While I don't doubt that many people would be satisfied with this definition of "what we are talking about", but it seems to me that Fetzer's formulation puts way too much emphasis on the absolute number killed, and the means used to kill them.

Whereas I would say that "the Holocaust" consists of Hitler's announced intention to carry out a genocidal 'ethnic cleansing' against the Jews; followed by the accomplishment of that goal. Many verifiable atrocities occurred along the way, although exactly what happened remained controversial.

In my opinion, both the 'Holocaust Deniers' and their opponents tend to evade truths which are equally or more important, by focusing on numbers & technology.

As to whether Holocaustism is more important than Christianity, here's another quote from Kellstrom's book:

“But why Holocaustism has replaced Christianity? I suppose it’s because Christianity has been in slow decline for several centuries. By 19th century, neither the thinking nor the ruling classes really believed in God any more – as A. N. Wilson wrote in the book ‘God’s Funeral: The Decline of Faith in Western Civilization’. The reaction against Christianity in post-Christian Europe reached the point that by the post-World War II period, a residual Christian guilty complex met Jewish-Holocaust power in the media[[ 272]] – and the result was Holocaustism replacing Christianity as the core sacred narrative of the West.” —Rehmat[ 273]
Very interesting, an Arab's view that Christianity has been replaced. Not sure I agree, but understand his point. Source note 273 is:

Rehmat’s World, 2.11.09, “Holocaust is new Jewish religion”; http://rehmat1.com/2009/11/02/holocaust-is-new-jewish-religion
 

smith

Member
My three points would be 1/ No Hitler plan. 2/ no evidence for homicidal gas chambers 3/ the six million figure is an exaggeration
Revisionist win on all three points.

As for the religious point maybe calling it a religion isn't accurate, because it's an adjunct to the religion of state worship. It is understandable why most whites don't want to question it or be labelled a heretic - there's zero benefit in doing so. Saying that I think because of oligarchy policy of targeting whites for extinction it's fair play to take the piss out of this racist story.
Christianity is boring because it is deracicinated, everyone wants to get tribal and hate someone, best if it returns to its religious Pagan roots.
 

Jerry Russell

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Staff member
From "Whistling in the Wind" blog. Because this is so important, I'm cross-posting this blog entry in its entirety. This is in answer to Smith's "No Hitler Plan" assertion. Maybe there was no published plan (why should they publish such a thing?) but there certainly was an expressed intention. Notice, at the end, also an expressed intention to use homicidal gas. appreciation for the value of homicidal gas for killing Jews. (edited 5/31/18 JR)

http://whistlinginthewind.org/2014/02/22/reading-mein-kampf/

Reading Mein Kampf is a very strange experience. The book and its author are so infamous that I almost feel like I have to preface what I say with the obvious statement that I am not a Nazi. But then why would I want to read a book by one of the most evil men in history? Hitler was unlike anyone else. His vicious hatred and the horrific acts he committed are something that none of us can understand. So out of historical curiosity, I decided to try and get an insight into the mind of this dictator. How could he possibly justify his evil ideology?



I was curious to know how Hitler justified his hatred of the Jews. Did he claim to only dislike some Jews and not mind others? Did he try the old “I’m not racist but . . .” card? Did he gloss over it and highlight other issues more? Was anti-Semitism just a small part of his ideology? Does Mein Kampf contain hints towards the aggression Hitler would show to not only the Jews but the rest of Europe? What else apart from the Jews did Hitler discuss?

First of all, Mein Kampf is a terribly written book. It is incoherent and full of random ramblings. It’s over 600 pages long and in dire need of a good editor. But most of all, it’s boring. Even though this is the architect of history’s greatest genocide revealing the insides of his mind, it is so badly written, that I found myself losing interest. Hitler does an incredibly poor attempt at arguing his case (not as though you could put a good case for him) and seems to presume the reader already agrees with him. No real attempt is made to explain why the Jews or Marxism is bad or what is so special about Germany or the Aryan race (or what Aryan even means).

The first part in particular is so boring as to the extent of being pointless. This is the closest Hitler comes to explaining his personal history. Historians have gone through it and found that most of what he claims is false and he leaves out huge parts of his life. What stuck out most for me was how impersonal it was. Here is someone describing his life in cold impersonal tones as though he was describing a stranger. There isn’t a single hint of human warmth or anecdotes or even mention of friends or other people bar his parents.

The most common theme in the book is how much Hitler hates the Jews. Now that is hardly surprising, but what was surprising was how blatant Hitler was in his hatred. Literally every discussion ended with Hitler blaming the Jews. He almost always referred to Jews in the singular as though there was only one type and they all acted the same way. All the newspapers were run by the Jew from the editors to the journalists and especially the Social Democratic papers. The Jew was responsible for all immoral activities and decadent culture as well as prostitution and “white slavery”. All forms of bad art too was the fault of the Jew. The divide between Catholic and Protestants and between Bavaria and Prussia were stirred up by the Jew. Class warfare and the divide between workers and bosses was also an invention of the Jew. The Jew also ran the trade unions, Marxist parties and the Soviet Union. The divide between England and Germany was caused by the Jew. If someone so much as lost their keys, the Jew was probably behind it. Anti-Semitism isn’t just one of Hitler’s views; it’s his main one on which he bases the rest of his views.

Mein Kampf is therefore bursting with the worst possible form of insults and hatred for the Jews. They are frequently called vermin and parasites and never described in human terms. The Jews were

“a pestilence, a moral pestilence with which the public was being infected. It was worse than the Black Plague of long ago.”​

Hitler described

“that bacillus which is the solvent of human society, the Jew”

“That parasitic nation which particularly at the present time, preys upon the honest portion of mankind; I mean the Jews.”​

The Jew “is a real leech who clings to the body of his unfortunate victim and cannot be removed.”

“He will stop at nothing. Is utterly low-down conduct is so appalling that one really cannot be surprised if in the imagination of our people the Jew is pictured as the incarnation of Satan and the symbol of evil.”

“The Jew wriggles his way in among the body of nations and bores them hollow from the inside.”​

Always sub human terms and no insult was too much. Hitler encouraged hatred of the Jews and expected people to go out of their way to antagonise the Jews.

“The man who is not opposed and vilified and slandered in the Jewish Press is not a staunch German and not a true National Socialist.”

“If a comrade of ours opens a Jewish newspaper in the morning and does not find himself vilified there, then he has spent yesterday to no account.”​

All of Germany’s problems were caused by the betrayal of the Jews.

“The Jew trafficked in the freedom of the nation and sold our country to the masters of international high finance.”​

Bizarrely enough, Hitler viewed the German majority as under attack from the Jews.

“The great leaders of Jewry are confident that the day is near at hand when the command given in the Old Testament will be carried out and the Jews will devour other nations of the Earth.”​
 
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Jerry Russell

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Post from "Whistling in the Wind" blog, continued....

Hitler dropped a few disturbing hints of what was to come when he warned of how the Jews could never change their ways but force would have to be used.

“In the same way the Jew will never spontaneously give up his march towards the goal of world dictatorship or repress his external urge. He can be thrown back on his road only by forces external to him, for his instinct towards world domination will die out only with him.”​

There were some truly bizarre/disturbing/crazy passages when Hitler went full crazy in his paranoia and hatred of the Jews.

“The black haired Jewish youth lies in wait for hours on end, satanically glaring at and spying on the unsuspecting girl whom he plans to seduce, adulterating her blood and removing her from the bosom of her own people. The Jew uses every possible means to undermine the racial foundations of a subjugated people. In his systematic effort to ruin girls and women he strives to break down the last barriers of discrimination between him and other people. The Jews were responsible for bringing Negroes into the Rhineland, with the ultimate idea of bastardizing the white race which they hate and thus lowering its cultural and political level so that the Jew might dominate. For as long as a people remain really pure and are conscious of the treasure of their blood, they can never be overcome by the Jew. Never in this world can the Jew become the master of any people except a bastardized people.”​

As someone who is learning Esperanto I found the following sentence very interesting. It turns out that while I thought I was learning a language to promote global communication, it turns out I was really just allowing myself to become the slave of the Jews. Who knew?

“But the moment that the world would become the slave of the Jew it would have to learn some other language (Esperanto, for example) so that by this means the Jew could dominate all the more easily.”​

It is interesting that when Hitler condemns Marxism (which he frequently does) it is not for economic or political reasons, but rather because he views it as “The Jewish doctrine of Marxism”. The only problem he seems to have with Marxism is that it is dominated by Jews. He viewed Marxism as a doctrine invented by the Jews to allow them to dominate the world (that is actually what he believed). He went so far into paranoid conspiracy crazy world that he is beyond parody (then again it is Hitler so what do you expect?). To Hitler, Marxism aims for “the establishment of despotic rule in the hands of international Jewish finance.”

There is a daft idea common among religious people that Hitler was an Atheist. This is completely wrong and believed only by those who have read little history. Hitler mentions God on a regular basis throughout Mein Kampf and believed he was doing God’s work. At the beginning of the book, he plainly states

“And so I believe today that my conduct is in accordance with the will of the Almighty Creator. In standing guard against the Jew I am defending the handiwork of the Lord.”​

He believed that God had intended races to be pure and avoid intermarriage as doing so was an insult to God. However, Hitler was not your standard Christian; rather he viewed God as someone who thought the same as he did (as most people do). All compassionate elements of Christianity were removed as signs of weakness. He often speaks on the verge of Paganism with his description of Nature and Creator rather than the specifically Christian notion of God.

The Nazis are famous for their inventive use of propaganda and Hitler emphasises this point in the book. He also shows how little respect he has for ordinary people, viewing them as simpletons to be manipulated.

“The receptive powers of the masses are very restricted, and their understanding is feeble. On the other hand, they quickly forget. Such being the case, all effective propaganda must be confined to a few bare essentials and those must be expressed as far as possible in stereotyped formulas.”​

Hitler was a racist. I don’t mean that solely as an insult but he literally believed the world was divided into different races with some superior and other inferior. He placed a high priority on keeping the German race “pure” of “contamination”.

“The German nation will never revive unless the racial problem is taken into account and dealt with. The racial problem furnishes the key, not only to the understanding of human history, but also to the understanding of every kind of human culture.”​

Race was not just a theoretical view he had but he believed it was the practical cause of Germany’s problems. Worryingly, he said that

“The right to personal freedom comes second in importance to the duty of maintaining the race.”​

Of course

“The Jew is destroying the racial base of our existence and thereby annihilating our people.”​

Another passage to give you an idea of how insane Hitler was (I think direct quotes give a far better impression than any summary I could give).

“Look at the ravages from which our people are suffering daily as a result of being contaminated with Jewish blood. Bear in mind the fact that this poisonous contamination can be eliminated from the national body only after centuries, or perhaps never. Think further of how the process of racial decomposition is debasing and in some cases even destroying the fundamental Aryan qualities of our German people, so that our cultural creativeness as a nation is gradually becoming impotent and we are running the danger, at least in our great cities, of falling to the level where Southern Italy is today. This pestilential adulteration of the blood, of which hundreds of thousands of our people take no account, is being systematically practised by the Jew today. Systematically these Negroid parasites in our national body corrupt our innocent fair-haired girls and thus destroy something which can no longer be replaced in this world. “​

Apart from the Jews, Hitler also really hated the French.

“The French people, who are becoming more and more obsessed by Negroid ideas, represent a threatening menace to the existence of the white race in Europe, because they are bound up with the Jewish campaign for world-domination. For the contamination caused by the influx of negroid blood on the Rhine, in the very heart of Europe, is in accord with the sadist and perverse lust for vengeance on the part of the hereditary enemy of our people, just as it suits the purpose of the cool calculating Jew who would use this means of introducing a process of bastardization in the very centre of the European Continent and, by infecting the white race with the blood of an inferior stock, would destroy the foundations of its independent existence. France’s activities in Europe today, spurred on by the French lust for vengeance and systematically directed by the Jew are a criminal attack against the life of the white race and will one day arouse against the French people a spirit of vengeance among a generation which will have recognized the original sin of mankind in this racial pollution.”​

However, the most disturbing and horrifying quote comes right at the end of the book when Hitler gives a hint of the great evil he would soon commit.

“At the beginning of the War, or even during the War, if twelve or fifteen thousand of these Jews who were corrupting the nation had been forced to submit to poison gas, just as hundreds of thousands of our best German workers from every social stratum and from every trade and calling had to face it in the field, then the millions of sacrifices made at the front would not have been in vain. On the contrary if twelve thousand of these malefactors had been eliminated in proper time probably the lives of a million decent men, who would be of value to Germany in the future, might have been saved.”​
 

Jerry Russell

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Saying that I think because of oligarchy policy of targeting whites for extinction it's fair play to take the piss out of this racist story.
What "oligarchy policy of targeting whites for extinction"? What about the Congo genocide ~1885, Cambodian genocide ~1975, Red Terror of Ethiopia 1977, Nigerian civil war, Rwandan genocide? What about the American Indians? American slave trade? I don't see a pattern that there's any specific race being targeted.

And on the other side of the coin, aren't Jews actually "white people"? Ashkenaz is a European, not a Semitic race.

Christianity is boring because it is deracicinated, everyone wants to get tribal and hate someone, best if it returns to its religious Pagan roots.
Are you being sarcastic here, Smith? Please tell me you forgot the smiley....
 

smith

Member
Thanks for the reply Jerry. I view the race replacement by mass immigration into white homelands as planned genocide. One because there is planned mass immigration into white homelands and two because it is replacing whites with non-whites. Unlike the Congo one and the others you mentioned, this one is permanent. Link to how it is being done: http://www.centerforsecuritypolicy.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/Red_Green_Axis.pdf
The Hitler thing is I think a side issue to the gas chamber story. That quote about Hitler mentioning poison gas is I think a lie. The fact that there is no evidence of homicidal gas chambers having been used suggests that "no Hitler plan" probably means there was no Hitler plan.
About the Christianity thing, no I am not being sarcastic, it was the anthropologist Sit Arthur Keith in his book Evolution and Ethics who pointed out that enmity and amity give man a code of dual morality : chapter 25 : http://www.bearfabrique.org/Evolution08/evolution-and-ethics.html
Christianity is boring because it doesn't allow for the dual code that is part of human nature.
The "are jews white" question is one way privilege jews have - I think it's dependent on the circumstances. I think from Prof. Macdonalds research they are at the opposite end of the spectrum with regards to character traits, for example whites are very low on ethnocentrism. Whites also seem to be a little more creative than jews.
 
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Jerry Russell

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I view the race replacement by mass immigration into white homelands as planned genocide. One because there is planned mass immigration into white homelands and two because it is replacing whites with non-whites. Unlike the Congo one and the others you mentioned, this one is permanent.
To me, the word 'genocide' implies mass murder or death. Whereas 'race replacement' by immigration can be a peaceful and voluntary process. In order to actually 'replace' a pre-existing race by this means, the pre-existing folks need to intermarry and interbreed with the newcomers in large numbers. Of course the process of mixing has been going on in an accelerating fashion ever since the invention of the wheel, with the result that Hitler's concept of a "pure" race has no reality in the modern world.

As to whether the Congo genocide and others are 'permanent', they certainly were with respect to the human beings whose lives were snuffed out.

The Hitler thing is I think a side issue to the gas chamber story. That quote about Hitler mentioning poison gas is I think a lie. The fact that there is no evidence of homicidal gas chambers having been used suggests that "no Hitler plan" probably means there was no Hitler plan.
On the contrary, I think that the gas chamber story is a side issue to the fact that so many people, including Jews, were killed during WWII. As to Hitler's hatred of the Jews, which extended to recommending use of poison gas against them, here's another source of the quote for you. Seems to be a different translation.

http://www.hitler.org/writings/Mein_Kampf/mkv2ch15.html

If at the beginning of the War and during the War twelve or fifteen thousand of these Hebrew corrupters of the people had been held under poison gas, as happened to hundreds of thousands of our very best German workers in the field, th sacrifice of millions at the front would not have been in vain. On the contrary: twelve thousand scoundrels eliminated in time might have saved the lives of a million real Germans, valuable for the future.
Recognizing the existence of tribal hatreds is, I suppose, important for an accurate worldview. But, Arthur Keith's advocacy of a "cosmical code of morality" strikes me as obsolete in a world with nuclear weapons and other terrible means of mass destruction. As Keith himself explains in Chapter 27, "The Civilized Mind Seeks to Eliminate Warlike Qualities".

The problem with Christianity is not that it fails to advocate for tribal violence, but that it was invented by the victors to suppress the losers, and thus it fails to even address the problem.
 

smith

Member
Never having read Mein kampf or the reputedly better Table Talk I still feel pretty sure in saying Hitler never recommended use of poison gas against anyone (Churchill did), the best line of his used to incriminate him was his "final solution" to the jewish problem, a line he also used with regards to unemployment.
Homicidal gas chambers might well have been used but after sixty or so years it is looking less and less likely that any evidence will be found. Compensating the Germans for the lie is something that should be considered in the interests of justice.
 

Jerry Russell

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I think at this point, Smith's blanket denial of the direct quote from Mein Kampf speaks for itself.

It's been quite a few years since I've spent much time reading about this Holocaust question. I recall feeling uncomfortable that the historians who accept the conventional Holocaust story (including the gas chambers) refused to actually engage the "revisionists" in debate, but rather took a sort of "holier than thou" attitude.

I've found that this is no longer the case, and there are at least a couple of excellent resources in which the conventional historians, who believe that the death chambers were a historical reality, are seriously engaging the debate. There's a lot to read, and I can't claim to have sorted it all out, but these websites look worthy of attention to me:

http://www.holocaust-history.org

http://holocaustcontroversies.blogspot.com

Specific replies to Kollerstrom:

http://holocaustcontroversies.blogspot.de/2013/08/open-letter-to-nick-kollerstrom-on.html
http://holocaustcontroversies.blogspot.com/2015/05/reply-to-nicholas-kollerstrom-on.html

Reply to Fetzer, including a link to a discussion on cyanide residues:

http://holocaustcontroversies.blogspot.com/2013/06/jim-fetzers-reasons-to-believe-in.html
 

smith

Member
Not quite a blanket denial, I said I feel pretty sure he never mentioned killing by gas, then quoted the main line used to incriminate him, the "final solution" one.
I'm quite happy to engage with regards this subject, and I will stay on topic.
Do you think there is enough evidence to support homicidal gassings?
The point you raise about my "blanket denial" is a little over the top but then again the issue can easily be resolved by investigating whether or not Hitler talked about gassing in his book. I'm open to the possibility that he may have talked about gassings. So what we need is to find the page and the words.
 
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smith

Member
You wrote "Notice, at the end, also an expressed intention to use homicidal gas"
Is this the passage you were referring to (If so need I point out that he's talking hypothetically about being killed by gas in the past, not intending to use it in the future)?
He mentioned gas around ten times, his experiences with mustard gas for which he was hospitalised etc. Then on page 518 of the PDF version:http://mk.christogenea.org/references/mein-kampf-pdf-version Hitler said:
"At the beginning of the War, or even during the
War, if twelve or fifteen thousand of these Jews who were corrupting the nation
had been forced to submit to poison-gas, just as hundreds of thousands of our
best German workers from every social stratum and from every trade and calling
had to face it in the field, then the millions of sacrifices made at the front would
not have been in vain. On the contrary: If twelve thousand of these malefactors
had been eliminated in proper time probably the lives of a million decent men,
who would be of value to Germany in the future, might have been saved."
So now, in the spirit of open debate can we please get back on topic. Do you think there is enough evidence to support homicidal gassings?
 
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Jerry Russell

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Is this the passage you were referring to (If so need I point out that he's talking hypothetically about being killed by gas in the past, not intending to use it in the future)?
I think we're making progress here -- we both agree that the quote exists, and now we're looking at what Hitler said.

Yes, I can agree that the statement talks about benefits that would have hypothetically been obtained in the past, if poison gas were used. In Keith's framework, Hitler's argument is based in the "cosmical code". That is, he argues that since poison gas was used against German soldiers, so therefore it would have been appropriate to use it against Jews as well, to save German lives.

To have been more precise (though tortured grammatically) I could've said he expressed a regret that it had not been used in the past when the opportunity presented itself. Given that he felt so strongly about it, there doesn't seem to be much of a leap if any, to assert that he would also intend to do so in the future.

Do you think there is enough evidence to support homicidal gassings?
I know that there are arguments & at least some evidence both pro and con regarding this issue, and I don't have a strong opinion. Maybe in a cooperative spirit, we could look into it.
 

smith

Member
Thanks for the reply Jerry. My opinion is that the gas chamber story is a racist lie, I have never known anyone come up with any evidence that supports the story of the gas chamber killings, Rassinier tried but couldn't and no one else has been able to since. So, as with Christianity, belief is a matter of faith and fear. The story will last as long as it's a useful tool of the ruling class to control the masses. The thing about looking into it is that unless evidence that supports the story is forthcoming, there is nothing to look into.
 

lorenhough

Well-Known Member
Thanks for the reply Jerry. My opinion is that the gas chamber story is a racist lie, I have never known anyone come up with any evidence that supports the story of the gas chamber killings, Rassinier tried but couldn't and no one else has been able to since. So, as with Christianity, belief is a matter of faith and fear. The story will last as long as it's a useful tool of the ruling class to control the masses. The thing about looking into it is that unless evidence that supports the story is forthcoming, there is nothing to look into.
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    1. Wall Street and the Rise of Hitler
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    [PDF]Wall Street and the Rise of Hitler
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    by AC SUTTON - ‎1976 - ‎Cited by 81 - ‎Related articles
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    The big boys, hated Germany, is a big competition, they the bankers etc set up the war killed more people in Europe than any German "the big boys killed more people in Europe then any German!
  1. richttps://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/cutting-through-matrix-alan/id154490096?mt=2&i=351937558

Who killed who?

The richest people on the planet control history will put you in jail if you talk about Fukushima in Japan will put you in jail if you talk about the holocaust in Europe and want to punish you if you say CO2 is good for you the same big boys that gave you 911, The Emperor creates the religions to dominate the slaves & the slaves take it hook line and sinker sometimes. Good stuff smith, welcome.

Look at Sutton stuff they set up Russia.
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    3. Published: 1974
    4. Author: Antony C. Sutton
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    Wall Street and the Bolshevik Revolution: The Remarkable True ...
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Jerry Russell

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I have never known anyone come up with any evidence that supports the story of the gas chamber killings, Rassinier tried but couldn't and no one else has been able to since.
Smith, surely you're aware that there is a vast amount of written material that supports the gas chamber story. All this material is disputed by the revisionists, but nevertheless it exists. For supporters of the gas chamber theory, the problem is to amass enough information to be credible; while revisionists are facing a seemingly impossible problem of proving a negative.

It seems that most of the controversy focuses on Auschwitz. There's also a lively debate about the "gas vans" used earlier in the war. Regarding other "death camps" there seems to be much less information & discussion.

In the category of eyewitness testimony, I gather that the account of Pery Broad is considered one of the most comprehensive & credible, although there are of course many more. Here is an assessment:

http://holocaustcontroversies.blogspot.com/2011/10/how-reliable-and-authentic-is-broad.html

Also well-known is Filip Muller

http://www.amazon.com/Eyewitness-Auschwitz-Three-Years-Chambers/dp/1566632714

Also we have forensic research into the remains of the crematoria & gas chambers. The existence of these crematoriums & chambers does not seem to be controversial, even though they were dynamited by the Nazis. The only controversy seems to be whether they were really used for mass murder, or whether they were humanitarian de-lousing chambers for the benefit of the Jews. (Maybe some sort of literary typological analysis is in order, regarding the meaning of terms such as "final solution", "special treatment", or "de-lousing"? They sound genocidal in a Shakespearean sense to me, but perhaps I digress.)

The following report claims to have demonstrated the existence of the controversial "holes" that eyewitnesses claimed were used to introduce Zyklon B poison into the gas chambers. Smith, have you seen this, and would you call it "evidence"?

http://www.holocaust-history.org/auschwitz/holes-report/holes.shtml

The Ruins of the Gas Chambers: A Forensic Investigation of Crematoriums at Auschwitz I and Auschwitz-Birkenau

Daniel Keren, Jamie McCarthy, and Harry W. Mazal
Combining engineering, computer, and photographic techniques with historical sources, this research note discusses the gas chambers attached to crematoriums at Auschwitz I and the Auschwitz-Birkenau death camp. Among other things, the authors identify the locations of several of the holes in the roofs through which Zyklon B was introduced: all four in Crematorium I, and three of the four in the badly damaged Crematorium II. The authors began their project before David Irving's libel suit against Penguin Books and Deborah Lipstadt, proceeding simultaneously with, but independently of, the trial. The defense presented the first version of the authors' report during Irving's subsequent application to appeal. That application was rejected by the court.
 

Richard Stanley

Administrator
I would certainly place the Holocaust in the same milieu of psy-ops as 9/11, but then again I question the underlying basis and motivations for both world wars, in addition to most other commonly held historical wisdom. The manner in which the Holocaust has been sanctified, like those similar events, turns it into a form of shibboleth which the questioner can be emotionally cudgeled with, and hence turned into a form of outcast. It had seemed with 9/11 that there was certainly enough evidence to demonstrate the more than dubious nature of that event, but the weight of the establishment mechanisms is simply too much. Same for the Holocaust ... and such as Hitler's true nature and puppet role.

The whole purpose for it was to gain global acceptance for the creation of Israel / Zion, based upon the century (by then) old layered historialogical fabrications of such as the Diaspora mythos (detailed by Sand in The Invention of the Jewish People) and that there is otherwise no biblical basis to justify the Return. So then to what purpose and who is benefiting?

Well, for one, you can't have either the Jesuit Futurist version, or the Scofield evangelical version, of the End Times play out unless there are some alleged Jews living there, that will in turn deny Christ and thus facilitate the rapturously genocidal orgy of salvation that these delusional freaks want.

The reaction of Jews to Black's Transfer Agreement was rather interesting in his telling of the role of the Jabotinskyites (today's Likud) in pressing to collaborate with the Nazis on the establishing of the money transfer system that enabled (mostly non-German) Jews to immigrate to Palestine, using the German Jew's own pledged 'transfer' money. He documented an extreme enmity between poor Eastern European Jews and their wealthy German cousins.

Furthermore, the Palestinian Jews pledged (and did) to buy industrial commodities, such as steel, from the Nazis to help build nascent Israel. The funds Germany raised from all this helped the Nazis survive their economically rough beginning years. As part of the collaboration program the proto-Mossad assisted the Gestapo in rounding up various Jews for deportation to Palestine. But Black's narrative never approached the issue of the Holocaust, so it got pretty much accepted as I understand it. The general feeling seemed to be that it was a dirty job (collaborating with Hitler), but someone had to do it. Hmmm

Then there is the issue of the claim for the 6 million number, which as I understand it was made well before anyone could possibly know what the real numbers would be. The number 6 million being another one of those mystical magic numbers supposed to have some supernatural effect.

There is also the business, I think mentioned by Otto Strasser(?) in his Hitler and I where he mentioned that Hitler would have never won election in 33 if not for the fact that the Socialists and the Communists simply could not agree on aligning. This goes to Jerry's coverage of Waldner's take on Marx having been a elitist Trojan Horse against [sic] socialism. And of course, the NSDAP was clearly a socialist workers party before Hitler took it over and suddenly became a tool for the industrialists, now making the NSDAP fascist in nature. The Strasser bothers were there to witness all that first hand.
 
If I may give my two Pfennigs worth on what I call The Hitler Project:

The first premise is that Hitler/Schicklgruber was a character designed to be inhabited by more than one person- For example, Podium-Speak Hitler was an trained actor, gesticulating and bellowing for the newsreels and specially selected audience members, and to scare the bejeebus out of the French and British (And to inspire a great many Americans/Bundists- Hitler got very good press in the US right up until the war)

The consultantee to the General Staff was someone else, probably the original corporal named Schicklgruber who was originally an errand boy for Ludendorff- This guy was likely the greeter of foreign dignitaries as well- The German General Staff ran the war, not this WWI tea boy making coffee and changing linen behind the lines for the brass-

The man with the hat bill down over his eyes reviewing waves and waves of goose steppers for the newsreels was someone else again, the double that could be exposed in public- The cow lick and toothbrush moustache was the branding that linked them all together in the minds of the not-too-close hysterical mobs of admirers-

Why an actor(s)? Premise number two: Real power is never, ever seen- Politicians/tyrants are actors reading other people’s lines- No one with original ideas is ever allowed to take matters into their own hands in a public forum-

Mein Kampf was written by Bernhard Stempfle, a Hieronymite priest and journalist and foaming anti-Semite- If you want to find the source of all the Jew-bashing in Mein Kampf, it’s from this guy- Ian Kershaw, in his book Hitler and the Final Solution, reports that Hitler would let loose with all manner of anti-Jewish invective where Jews were few and votes came from the ignorant gentile rabble where a Jew was as good a scapegoat as any for their empty wallets- When in areas with heavy Jewish influence, including commercial and political clout, Hitler railed against “foreigners and aliens”, leaving out the J-word- So much for conviction-

The name Hitler is an intelligence alias- His biography in MK is sparse because it was created by those like Stempfle who were putting the character together- The embellishments like the stern father, possibly being a descent from a Rothschild, having a beloved mother who dies of cancer are all likely fiction- It's a rags to riches romance designed to inspire the little guy to back this meritorious champion the working stiff can admire and fantasize about- (Lunkheads like Silvio Berlusconi, for example, have a far wider base of simpletons than the intelligentsia can ever outnumber or out shout because most people want power and the perks that go with it, not ethics)

The beer hall putsch was a false flag- It was designed to introduce “Hitler” as a major player in the anti-communist ranks- The “putsch” was ladled with religious connotations- It assembled before midnight on Nov. 8th, 1923 and concluded with the blood spilling at around three AM, following a timetable like the Passion of Christ- (That following morning would be in the European reckoning stated as 9/11/1923) (Winking emoticon)

The “trial” of Hitler was his first major platform and he was given a long leash by the approving judges in giving his testimony- The western press of the oligarchs heavily covered the trial and the supporting observers in the court room were allowed to cheer and holler for their guy-

He was given a surprisingly light sentence for treason, sat incarcerated with Hess for 9 (nine) months in his luxury cell in a minimum security prison to voice his thoughts and during this time we are told that Hitler’s holy manifesto was born-

Demi-gods not only need holy writ, they require a special revelation and that was written into Hitler’s back story as the gassing and recovery at Pasewalk- There on his hospital cot, blinded and in a brutal fever, it is reported by every historian with an academically anointed shingle allowing them to preach orthodox history that Hitler had his Vision with a capital “V”-

This vision stuff resonated with the esoterically minded social sets in Germany at the time- The popularity of occult practices and beliefs in the wake of WWI was an outgrowth of a strata of German culture that emanated from the murky primeval forests that had haunted German imagination since before the age of Woutan- It is said that Von Moltke the Younger had a three day vision/coma just prior to the disastrous enactment of the Schlieffen plan and the stale mate of WWI- Presumably one would have their stature greatly enhanced by such a Road to Damascus moment when rubbing elbows with the elite, whom which Hitler eventually found himself amongst- (The Obama Project, for example, doesn’t have such a moment as he’s of the wrong time and culture for such a thing to be useful to enhance his mystique)

So too, the image was enhanced by his winning two iron cross medals for his alleged work as a messenger during WWI- Neither award scroll is very specific about why he earned these medals, something real German soldiers so decorated were specifically sighted for time, date and action-

I won’t elaborate on the engineered bankruptcy of Germany by the treaty of Versailles, but with the incarceration of Nazi leadership in 1924, Germany found financial relief with the Dawes Plan, a gesture of largesse from America that rebooted the German currency and economy as a whole- The public’s taste for strong arm tactics waned with this relief and the Weimar Republic had its golden age- Hjalmar Schacht, the Nazi banker of choice, had been replaced-

Even so, the chancellor warned that Germany was dancing on a volcano and if the American economy failed, Germany would go right down with them- Well, of course it failed in 1929 and with that the blame game got into high gear- Jews specifically were on the hot seat- The panic also brought back the Nazis as a viable alternative- Hitler’s sentence was commuted to not being allowed to speak publicly for five years- That five years was up in 1928 and he was back at the podium, ranting and raving- The spooked public started voting Nazis into larger number of Reichstag seats than ever before-

Then the Young Plan came along- Another infusion of cash from America- When adopted in 1930, the effects were not readily seen and the Nazis reached their peak of political popularity in the 1930 elections- By 1932, the party was losing steam and it is at this point that I believe the invisibles decided that they would have to install Hitler as Führer right away- They began by installing him as chancellor, then burned down the Reichstag and that justified the enabling act to give this Hitler character dictatorial power- The game was afoot-

A few quick notes about Nazi economics- As with everything else about the Hitler Project, the alleged economic miracle under Hitler was also a scam- Hjalmar Schacht was recalled to keep the books, and helped create the myth of full employment by issuing an instrument known as Labor Treasury Certificates to fund public works for a start and then quickly total rearmament- These “certificates” never actually existed- They were bookkeeping legerdemain, never even minted- The fiat script for the masses was backed by the expansion and forced trade agreements with other countries willing to trade with German money- This autarky was the central engine which powered this “socialist” regime- The potential and action of the war in the east was what propped up this phantom economy- The script issued to the labor force was not designed to build individual investment- With taxes so high and no lateral movement as far as careers were concerned, this “full employment” was a bare bones subsistence wage that only continued with the rearmament effort- Make guns or starve-

In my view, the Third Reich was nothing more than a deliberately engineered war machine designed for one purpose: to fight a winner take all war with Russia and the elite ghouls who ran both sides cleaned up, displacing millions, killing millions more and, most importantly, finally severing man from his relationship with the land and forcing a total dependence on centralized authority- That is, to set up a dependence on ultimately a global governance where there is practically no way off the grid- We are almost there---
 

Jerry Russell

Administrator
Staff member
Getting back to Smith's topic about the gas chambers, I find that Curt Doolittle has a brief, snide dismissal of "holocaust denial" on his web page, and nothing else to say about it. So I don't see how Smith can claim Doolittle as an ally.

About Vrba, I gather that revisionists believe he was discredited by his testimony at the 1985 Zundel trial. But, after a quick perusal of the transcript, I don't see why. In his 1964 book, and his earlier famous 1944 report, he was obviously and admittedly working with sparse information to paint a picture, and at times he may have been mistaken about details, dates & figures. So what? It doesn't invalidate the basic testimony that he saw gas chambers in operation at Auschwitz.
 
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