Atchity's Messiah Matrix

Discussion in 'Videos' started by Jerry Russell, Mar 28, 2016.

  1. Jerry Russell

    Jerry Russell Administrator Staff Member

    Atchity's novel is built around the theory that Caesar Augustus was the inspiration for the character Jesus of the NT.

    Not really a movie or a documentary yet, just a trailer. But this novel seems designed for the big screen.

    Atchity was a professor of literature & classics at Occidental College and chairman of the comparative literature department, while pursuing a second career as a movie producer & literary agent. He's no doubt the most prominent & academically credible person to advocate for any form of Roman Origins theory, since Bruno Bauer. See his Wiki article,, which really needs an update to include some details about Messiah Matrix.

    I agree with Rick: Joe & I really must do a podcast on this. But I'll have to read the novel first.

  2. Richard Stanley

    Richard Stanley Administrator

    The premise is partially generated from the late 19th century work of scholar Alexander del Mar, who wrote a book on the iconography of Roman coins and what can be derived from them. Thus the novel centers on a fictional marine archaeological find of a rare Herodian(?) coin honoring Augustus. It turns out then that a powerful faction of the Jesuits has been bidding its time to pursue their agenda of announcing that Jesus of Nazareth was really Augustus, the implied object of Virgil's paean to him, disguised as the old Roman god Jasius - related to Janus. There is a romantic interest between the American archaeologist and the young Jesuit priest (who becomes a secular professor) and the novel has a parallel to the DaVinci Code.

    It is easy to see that some circles of Roman Xianity, elite conservatives would not be hard to convince in principle, but rather having a practical hesitation as to the likelihood of social disruptions caused by such a revelation.

    And then how does this notion comport with the ongoing leaks of the Church, including astronomer Jesuits, about Space Jasius (my appellation) coming soon? This new revelation is supposed to fit atop the NT as the NT fit atop the OT. I think this subject got short shift on the first go around. You could spend several weeks on this topic alone.
  3. Jerry Russell

    Jerry Russell Administrator Staff Member

    Atchity's entry at Wikipedia has been enhanced with the following information, which is based on the summary Rick provided above, as well as my dim memories from having begun to skim the novel some time ago.
    Last edited: Mar 28, 2016
  4. Richard Stanley

    Richard Stanley Administrator

    Who did that?

    Also, the novel's timing was rather prescient considering that it came out just before Benedict gave way to Francis, the first Jesuit pope. This considering the intense schism described in the novel between the Jesuit faction and the orthodoxy.
    Marcilla Smith likes this.
  5. Jerry Russell

    Jerry Russell Administrator Staff Member

    None other than yours truly, of course!

    Yes, and Atchity was quick to point this out, blogging at Huffington Post.

  6. Wow! I just got to this part in the novel, 3/4's through. Doesn't this seem quite an odd coincidence? Was there some way Ken could have seen this coming?
  7. Richard Stanley

    Richard Stanley Administrator

    Coincidences do happen. Was there a way he could have seen this coming? With the Logos, all things are possible. ;)
  8. Finished! Finding myself in the home stretch, I poured on the steam.

    Thanks for the suggestion and encouragement. If nothing else, it was an enjoyable read =]

    More specific thoughts, with (possibly unnecessary) spoiler alert:

    To put the bottom line up front: I think the story is strong enough to base a film or other video media upon and more mainstream exposure for the Imperial Roman Origins Theory for Christianity.

    Let me now get the easy criticism out of the way: typos! I didn't count them, but I remember multiple. He's got to put out a corrected edition.

    Another easy fix change would be the few "SAT words" sprinkled through the novel. They struck me as out of place and I fear may be off-putting to many who would otherwise be an audience for the book.

    I would like to see the conclusion shorter, more believable, and more open to interpretation. Let the adventure come to an end with the couple, as the world itself, facing an uncertain future. Roll credits.

    I found the romantic aspects jarring, particularly as the story reached its conclusion... as in real life! :: rimshot, followed by strained chuckling through teeth clenched as though trying to resist the urge to grimace ::

    I'd like to see the lead female character's voice be more feminine. Also: more female characters!

    If it could be written less expository, that would be great, but I don't know how I would suggest doing that of the top of my head, so I worry I'm just saying this just to say it :: shrugs ::

    As others have said, a feel that is not unlike DaVinci Code, but better. DC made back six times its budget; who is this generation's Tom Hanks?

    Naturally, I've already emailed Ken requesting that we speak soon =]
  9. Jerry Russell

    Jerry Russell Administrator Staff Member

    That cool "spoiler" accordion button is a feature I never knew we had! We should probably use it often.

    Now if you're going to go off and work with Atchity on his movie, we need to figure out how to at least work in some foreshadowing about Titus.
  10. Richard Stanley

    Richard Stanley Administrator

    This would also allow for the line, "Papa Nero is in the building!!!!" (Thanks Elvis.)

    Jewish tradition

    At the end of 66, conflict broke out between Greeks and Jews in Jerusalem and Caesarea. According to the Talmud, Nero went to Jerusalem and shot arrows in all four directions. All the arrows landed in the city. He then asked a passing child to repeat the verse he had learned that day. The child responded, "I will lay my vengeance upon Edom by the hand of my people Israel" (Ez. 25,14). Nero became terrified, believing that God wanted the Temple in Jerusalem to be destroyed, but would punish the one to carry it out. Nero said, "He desires to lay waste His House and to lay the blame on me," whereupon he fled and converted to Judaism to avoid such retribution.[188] Vespasian was then dispatched to put down the rebellion.

    The Talmud adds that the sage Reb Meir Baal HaNess, Rabbi Meir or Rabbi Meir Baal HaNes (Rabbi Meir the miracle maker) was a Jewish sage who lived in the time of the Mishna a prominent supporter of the Bar Kokhba rebellion against Roman rule. He was considered one of the greatest of the Tannaim of the third generation (139-163). According to the Talmud, his father was a descendant of the Roman Emperor Nero who had converted to Judaism. His wife Bruriah is one of the few women cited in the Gemara. He is the third most frequently mentioned sage in the Mishnah.[189]

    Kind of evokes the image presented by Saussey of General Richey, aka Papa Nero, taking off clandestinely during the phony Jesuit Disestablishment to get the colonials in proper order. And now we have the Bar Koch brothers' Rebellion. :eek:
  11. Are you saying the Talmud says that Emperor Nero went to Jerusalem and converted to Judaism? Then what? He faked his death back in Rome?

    In any event, and getting back to Ken... he says he wants to do a documentary first. He also offered to let me help produce... provided I can get the backing. He'd like the BBC, if he can get it.

    This got me to thinking... what about a multi-part series on the Roman origins of Christianity? An episode on Julius Caesar, an episode on Augustus, 1-2 episodes on the Flavians, and an episode on Constantine (do we have {a} "go to" Constantine expert{s}?)

    Also, I think he would be down for a podcast. He said he thought he had spoken with y'all before, but never got around to setting anything up. He wasn't sure if y'all would be interested in Augustan origins because of your affiliation with Joe, but I shared with him your ideas about the different Caesars being links in a chain that led to Christianity as we know it today, and he seemed not so opposed to that idea.

    Is this exciting? This feels like a little bit of extra momentum picking up =]
    Last edited: Sep 25, 2016
  12. Jerry Russell

    Jerry Russell Administrator Staff Member

    I wonder who Atchity talked to before? I s'pose that "y'all" could include any number of people Joe has worked with on various podcasts. We'll have to follow up on this for sure.

    Kudos for all the progress putting this together!
    Marcilla Smith likes this.
  13. Jerry Russell

    Jerry Russell Administrator Staff Member

    About Constantine, it would be great to recruit Toth Gyula as one of your experts. When it comes to fodder for provocative documentaries, it's hard to beat the theory that Constantine was one and the same person as Charlemagne, and also that Mohammed was the same person as Bishop Arius, who fled east after he was defeated at the Nicene council. See:
    Marcilla Smith likes this.
  14. Richard Stanley

    Richard Stanley Administrator

    No, I'm saying that Wikipedia says the Talmud says that. If this happened, I think it would be pretty ill advised for him to return to Rome, but maybe we better find that section of the Talmud to see what it actually says about such details.

    Wouldn't it be cool if Elvis was a descendant of Nero? He was a Melungeon at least (and a friend of Richard Nixon to boot).

    I presume this would be based upon the Augustan origin theory?

    Jacobovici has had two separate TV series on biblical archaeology, including a good episode on Constantine, besides his regular format documentaries.
    Marcilla Smith likes this.
  15. Thank you for the information, the encouragement, and the patience.

    The Phantom Time Hypothesis is pretty interesting, of course. I have seen it mentioned before (on History Channel, maybe?), but I'll have to see if there's a thread, and finish reading the link you sent.

    The Talmud claim is downright wacky. Definitely needs to be checked out!

    And while we are still in development and not yet greenlit for pre-production, I am nonetheless happy to announce that this morning I received an email from the BBC that they will take a meeting with Ken next week when he is in London :: curtsies ::
  16. Richard Stanley

    Richard Stanley Administrator

    Keep us posted whenever you can - on your development of the next New Song. ;)

    Notice that I have posted more from Fideler on the Logos and the New Song.

    Yes, it is very curious. Interesting that it is also in the same passage (Gittin 56) where the Jewish high priest pronounces Vespasian to be the Lord, and some other fun stuff.
  17. Yes, thanks. That's dense material. I was sorry I could not find a copy at the Greensboro library. I will have to get my hands on a copy at some point, though.

    As for developments, tomorrow, 20 October, at 3pm London time, Ken meets with the head of BBC's Storyville, their flagship and 5 time Oscar-winning strand for international documentaries. I'm more than satisfied that we're being given such posh treatment, and quite hopeful as to the prospects that we will soon be greenlit to move from development into pre-production =]

    All prayers, burnt offerings, and devotio appreciated
  18. Jerry Russell

    Jerry Russell Administrator Staff Member

    Congrats! I'm sure none of us at Postflaviana would be above accepting offers for overpaid consulting positions with the pre-production team....
    Marcilla Smith likes this.
  19. UPDATE: I spoke with Ken earlier today. He came down with a cold. Nonetheless, he was able to meet with Kate Townsend of the BBC.

    He described their meeting as "brief, but productive." They decided it wasn't the right fit, but now he has a meeting with Lionsgate. I am not at all disappointed with this turn of events, as Lionsgate has an outstanding history with documentaries, including Farenheit 911, the top grossing doc of all time.

    And now a word from fellow Floridian, Thomas Petty:
  20. If I may, I'd like to share some loglines I'm sending to Ken:
    • A distinguished professor searches for historical evidence of Jesus of Nazareth, and discovers He was really a Roman emperor.
    • Who was Jesus, really? The answer may be: Augustus Caesar.
    • The creation by the Roman Emperor Augustus of the cult that became Christianity.
    • Film producer and professor of comparative literature Kenneth Atchity explores the hypothesis of America's first Director of the Bureau of Statistics, Alexander del Mar, that the story of Jesus Christ is based upon the life of Emperor Augustus.
    • A documentary examining the idea that the central figure of Christianity is based on a Roman Emperor, and speculating as to the possible future implications for the world's largest religion.
    • Veteran film producer Kenneth Atchity documents the evidence that Caesar Augustus founded the cult that became Christianity, leading him to pen a new novel based upon his discoveries.
    • Dissident religious scholars are on the brink of the greatest revelation of the last 2,000 years -- or are they just fooling themselves?
    • A film that digs through the myth, mystery, and history to get to the true origins of Christianity.
    • A look at the earth-shattering revelations in the long overlooked The Worship of Augustus Caesar.
    Feedback would be greatly appreciated!

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