Alternative Genealogy

Seeker

Well-Known Member
Speaking of Genealogy, here’s a miles paper.
Also from that original paper, "Along with Sulla, the Scipios were Cornelii, as were the Lentuli and Rufini. Sulla was a Rufini, meaning red hair. The Scipios were also known to have red hair, being called Rutilus. This may also point us at the Phoenicians, who we know had red hair in some lines. And if this is true, then the story about modern Jews getting the red hair from southern Russia would be shown to be false.
We find yet another rarely mentioned clue: Octavian was adopted by Julius Caesar, but he was from gens Octavia, which gained prominence in around 230BC with Octavius Rufus. Which again means “red”. If all these red Phoenicians were related, this means the Octavii were related to the Cornelii. Which would indicate once again that Julius Caesar was promoting them through marriage and adoption even while defeating them in the Civil War. You also have to remember that the given reason Caesar adopted Octavian was that Octavian's mother was Caesar's niece. This Atia was the daughter of Caesar's sister Julia Minor. So the first emperors of Rome were not just Julians through adoption, they were Julians by blood through Atia."

Richard was very big on ancient red-haired progenitors being the "real players", as I recall, but I believe that he was referring to the theories of the late Nicholas de Vere, in that they were Scythians, not Phoenicians. In Greek mythology, Phoenix, the King and eponym of Phoenicia, and son of King Agenor (Miles Mathis names Agenor as the progenitor of the Phoenicians), could be equated phonetically with "Phenius Pharsa" (many variant spellings), King of Scythia. So perhaps we are again dealing with one "person", under different cultural aliases/identities, part of the premier elite royal family, and can achieve some degree of synchronicity with these disparate origin theories.

Nicholas de Vere, for obvious reasons, promoted the de Veres as the senior royal family, with the Fulks/Foulques Counts of Anjou, the original Plantagenets and ancestors of English Folkes families, as their junior line (Fulks of Anjou were described as red-headed and/or ruddy complexioned). However, it has been suggested that the Fulks/Folkes line was the premier line instead, using the de Veres and other prominent families (such as the later Rothschilds) as a convenient layer of cover for them, and thus remaining in the obscure background, unheard of by the world. In this theory, they descend from the "Phocas" dynasty of Eastern Roman Emperors, and go all the way back to "our" Flavian dynastic family of Vespasian and Titus. "Roman Piso" gives them a Herodian descent, which would lead back to the Scythian/Phoenician ancestry mentioned above. These two Flavian Roman Emperors were either the "Christ" or "Antichirst" (depending upon your point of view), who were responsible for the fall of Jerusalem and the destruction of the Temple in AD 70. In an apocalyptic sense, they have also been considered to be among the seven "heads" of the "Beast" in Revelation.
 
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Jerry Russell

Administrator
Staff member
What are your thoughts @Jerry Russell ?
It's always enjoyable to read Miles Mathis's thoughts, and I'm excited that he's turned his attention to one of our favorite periods of history. And it's also intriguing that Mathis claims to have some expertise in Latin and Roman history, dating back to his high school and undergraduate college days.

We have always suspected that the Romans were deeply linked to the Hebrew tribes. Richard traced this through the Trojan foundation of Rome, which he linked to the Greek Danites and the Tribe of Dan. We've also thought that the Phoenicians and Hebrews were one and the same people, and that red hair was a mark of the elite families of that tribe. Mathis supplies a great deal of detail to supplement the overall picture that we've been advocating.

Mathis's demonstration of the direct lineage from Rome's wealthy and powerful founders to Julius Caesar, is far preferable to the view that he came from humble roots and rose as a self-made man. Richard believed that the significance of Caesar's dalliance with the Cilician Pirates, was that this established the means for Mithraism to make its way into the Roman religious system. This could still be the symbolic meaning of the episode, even if (as Mathis claims) it never really happened. And of course, Richard would have been delighted to see Mathis supporting his view that Caesar's assassination was a fake, and that he really must have retired to a hidden resort.

The idea that Julius Caesar was such a strict homosexual that he never sired any children whatsoever, would surely be disputed by Ralph Ellis, who argues that Caesar was a direct ancestor of King Izas Manu, aka Jesus Christ.

I feel certain that Jerry will disagree with this Miles Mathis excerpt, at least- "For instance, I have shown you that all US Presidents and most Hollywood stars are closely related, and that they all come from the direct line of William the Conqueror and before that from Charlemagne. In many instances, they now admit it or even brag about it, while denying that it is important. They try to tell you everyone living comes from that line, but of course they don't." Miles said it, Jerry, not me.
I agree with Mathis, if he's talking about more or less direct lines of male (patriarchal) descent from ancient kings. Most or all of the women in the line should be drawn from closely related families. If the line includes occasional intrusions of more distant relatives (fourth or fifth cousins) drawn from high nobility, this could also denote "good blood". I suppose, alternatively, a direct and pure maternal line of descent might also be interesting.

On the other hand, nearly everyone living can trace some sort of lineage back to Charlemagne, by way of a meandering path involving commoners continually marrying increasingly distant scions off the trunk.
 

Seeker

Well-Known Member
Richard traced this through the Trojan foundation of Rome, which he linked to the Greek Danites and the Tribe of Dan.
Intriguing that Aeneas is described as a DarDANIAN, and he certainly was a seafarer! Charles N. Pope diverges from Mathis, however, by having Vespasian as a son of Caesarion, and thus the grandson of Julius Caesar. At least this is consistent with a "Preflavian" Caesar being a prototype of "Christ", while the Mathis hypothesis seems much more radical and unlikely to me, in that Caesar was so completely homosexual that he had no inclination to try to father natural heirs for his dynasty and legacy. As noted before, Vespasian was first declared Roman Emperor in Alexandria, which Caesar, Cleopatra, and Caesarion were all previously associated with. This event even occurred in July, the month that was named after Julius Caesar, and now, aided by an Imperial propaganda team that included Josephus, the Roman dynasty of "Caesar's Messiah" had begun, in the East.
 
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Seeker

Well-Known Member
On the other hand, nearly everyone living can trace some sort of lineage back to Charlemagne, by way of a meandering path involving commoners continually marrying increasingly distant scions off the trunk.
Perhaps my understanding is outdated now, but I thought that everyone living on earth now could be descended from the 18th Dynasty, traditionally starting about 1550 BC, well over 2000 years before Charlemagne, when the Hyksos rulers were finally expelled, and the "New Kingdom" began. Could this have signaled the first major sorting out of the elite royal family, separating the wheat(continuing royalty) from the chaff (subsidiary workers for royalty)?
 

Seeker

Well-Known Member
Speaking of Genealogy, here’s a miles paper.
We've also thought that the Phoenicians and Hebrews were one and the same people,
I am rereading the Miles Mathis "Rome" paper, looking for clues, and I think that a way to make Dido (Carthaginian/Phoenician) the mother of Ascanius ("Roman") is to involve her sister, Anna Perenna, the Roman goddess whose festival falls on the Ides of March, the very day that Ascanius descendant Julius Caesar was "assassinated". According to Ovid, after the suicide of Dido, Anna was eventually shipwrecked on the coasts of Latium, where she was hosted by Aeneas, but his wife Lavinia became increasingly jealous, so Anna fled, and was transformed into a river nymph after falling into the Numicus. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anna_Perenna The river-god Numicus also purified Aeneas after his decease, again according to Ovid, and his body is buried on the banks of that river. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Numicus, So in a way they do end up together eternally.

Suppose Dido faked her suicide at Carthage, and, using the identity of her sister, was actually Anna with Aeneas in Latium, where she bore Ascanius, but was forced to flee, or really perished upon giving birth to Ascanius there? Aeneas then raised their son Ascanius, and stepmother Lavinia morphed into his actual mother, in the retelling of this story, as a coverup to erase any Carthaginian heritage. Thus, "Anna" could be the "missing link" in this Phoenician origin hypothesis of Rome.
 

Seeker

Well-Known Member
From another paper found on the Mathis site, not written by him, on page 31- http://mileswmathis.com/phoen3.pdf

"If I were to give a date at which some global pact between top aristocrats was made, I’d say it was somewhere around 1600 BC, when apparently aristocrats from the Levant had achieved, or been given, reign over both Mesopotamia and Egypt. I still don’t know what exactly happened there. I suppose Levantine merchant princes were the initiators, but it was likely not a drive-by takeover as later with the illiterate Europeans. I hypothesize it to be some merger, with all aristocratic parties bringing some tradition to the table: Egyptian and Mesopotamian templars their bureaucracies, and Levantine operators their global reach."

Does this timing not roughly coincide with the accession of the new dynasty founder Ahmose I, who supposedly expelled the Hyksos?

The next paragraph touches on royal identity switching, which is a motif Charles N. Pope, Ralph Ellis, and Roman Piso go more fully into in their own writings-

"These links to Mesopotamia and Egypt may be today downplayed even towards lesser spooklings, judging from Hammurabi’s controversial “rediscovery”, and from the way Gardiner’s harmless transcriptions are buried. But there might be a wealth of archaic scamming practices inherited from those advanced empires: Did you know that Mesopotamian elites early on invented the custom to switch their king for an actor double, called “substitute king” (šar pūḫi), who wouldn’t rule but merely enact the king to the public? As with the Nazir, that actor was serving a fixed term. He was officially of low birth and would later be killed (or fake-killed: deported). Talk about actors who fake their own death. We don’t even need to mention Egyptian rulers, who regularly impersonated gods."
 
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Jerry Russell

Administrator
Staff member
Mesopotamian elites early on invented the custom to switch their king for an actor double...
In ancient times, such a deception or gambit would be difficult or impossible for anyone outside the inner circle to detect. With modern TV and internet communications, perhaps they need to resort to (slightly) more sophisticated organizational forms? For example, it seems highly likely that Joe Biden is too cognitively impaired to be personally responsible for his actions. He seems to be a pawn or representative of some more powerful person, organization or entity -- but who?? This is the problem with conspiracy theorizing... we can only get so far before losing the trail. And it's tempting, but basically wrong, to jump to conclusions.
 

Seeker

Well-Known Member
For example, it seems highly likely that Joe Biden is too cognitively impaired to be personally responsible for his actions. He seems to be a pawn or representative of some more powerful person, organization or entity -- but who?? This is the problem with conspiracy theorizing... we can only get so far before losing the trail. And it's tempting, but basically wrong, to jump to conclusions.
Instead I shall jump to a precedent, which I am not saying shall be repeated, the aged Hindenburg with an up-and-coming Hitler behind him, in 1933/34 Germany.
 

Marcilla Smith

Active Member
While I haven't looked into it, I seem to recall a report that Mr. Biden received 5x the Wall Street donations as Mr. Trump. As to which person(s) spend the most time with their hand on his shoulder, steering him, I could only speculate they/she/he are a DNC insider.

While I think there's no shortage of Republicans with an outward appearance of "fascism," the party seems very disorganized when viewed as a whole. OTOH, the Democratic party - while it appears to have a few outliers, seems to have a high degree of internal "discipline" - or some might call this authoritarianism
 
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