Allan Weisbecker

[Jerry Russell]

There's an odd concept of "responsibility" here. On the 'trial' podcast, Joe and Jan challenged Zane Kesey to a debate, because Zane had criticized Irvin's earlier analysis. There's no "responsibility" on Jan's part to have any debate with Allan, and furthermore Joe has no control over Irvin's site, or over the CCN videos. If Joe were to start making irrational demands against Irvin's wishes, like for example insisting that Irvin host Allan on his show -- the true situation is that Joe is a guest at Jan's site, and could easily find himself dumped. Not that Joe is interested in making any such demands.

Above, Allan mentioned the concept of getting paid by the hour. Unlike Joe and I, Jan has to make his living from his site. So maybe since nobody is paying Jan by the hour, that's why he doesn't have time for this. And that's why he's blocked the discussion. Whereas I find the sparring rather amusing, so I guess that's why I keep doing it.

 

[Joe Atwill]

Hi Allan,

Jan has made his opinion of you very clear. He sees your thinking as unsound. If you have any meaningful criticism please post it here and I will pass it along to Jan with a recomendation that he post it on his site. To your point that I was mistaken in describing Kesey's giving 'millions of tabs of LSD to children' please be aware that any alert listener would understand that this would be a physical impossibility and that I was therefore speaking metaphorically. In other words, Kesey deliberately created the 'Haight Ashbury LSD culture' to cause millions of LSD trips by America's youth.

 

[Allancw]

Jesus, do you ever stop? Jan didn't 'block the discussion.' He blocked ME. Is there even one post where you do not slip in some misdirection or untruth? I haven't gone over them all, but i doubt it.

When does Joe want to have the debate (on Rev Radio, here)? What time and which Friday? Will he agree to some stipulations to make it easier and save time? For ex, I stipulate that there was a cia op to spread LSD, etc, in order to dumb down. I have some others but Joe can ask if I agree with certain things.

I'd like to stipulate about who was on the Furthur bus trip. can we agree via the wiki page on the Pranksters and/or the Magic Trip? Does he want to add any -- I'm talking about the cross country trip only, since who is 'on the bus' becomes impossible to document after that trip.

Also, I have several citations that Kesey met the Dead first in late 64 or early 65. can we stipulate to that?

I would stipulate that there is FM imagery in Catcher.

For the purposes of the debate -- no calling of each other 'shills/trolls' etc since that is killing the messenger? Stick to kesey and salinger.

I get 10 minutes up front and after that neither gets more than 1 minute to rebut any one statement. since i have to put on a whole case that he had 2 hours to do (the trial and cuckoo's analysis), I should have more time than him, over the first ten minutes. I propose that at a time that seems natural, i get a separate 5 minutes on Cuckoo's Nest. i'll leave plenty of time for a discussion. but again, no more than 1 minute each to answer something.

It's just joe and me. 2 against 1 is not fair.

 

[Allancw]

Joe, do you think that my thinking is 'unsound'?

If so, please quote something from my blocked comments (there were two) that is unsound.

Hi Allan,

Jan has made his opinion of you very clear. He sees your thinking as unsound. If you have any meaningful criticism please post it here and I will pass it along to Jan with a recomendation that he post it on his site. To your point that I was mistaken in describing Kesey's giving 'millions of tabs of LSD to children' please be aware that any alert listener would understand that this would be a physical impossibility and that I was therefore speaking metaphorically. In other words, Kesey deliberately created the 'Haight Ashbury LSD culture' to cause millions of LSD trips by America's youth.

 

[Joe Atwill]

Hi Allan
Stipulations are fine.
I will do more than reframe from name calling, I will treat you with honest respect and attempt to make you feel at ease so that you can best express your points.
I really don't have an opinion on how people maintain their sites. Jerry mentioned that you don't permit people to post comments so I don't understand how you can criticize Jan's policies.
I do not see your thinking as unsound.
As far as an additional five minute soliloquy, I think that is excessive. The terms are better than any I have ever been offered.
If this Friday is too soon for you, than perhaps the next week?

 

[Jerry Russell]

Jesus, do you ever stop? Jan didn't 'block the discussion.' He blocked ME.

Do you ever stop trying to twist what I'm saying? Yes, Jan blocked the discussion WITH YOU, he didn't block anyone else.

can we agree via the wiki page on the Pranksters and/or the Magic Trip?

We'd have to stipulate to the Wiki page contents as of a particular date. Wikipedia pages can and do change overnight.

It's just joe and me. 2 against 1 is not fair.

Totally works for me. I could either be available to serve as a timekeeper, or take the morning off.

I do not see your thinking as unsound.

I agree that the conversation (both on-the-air and here) would be more pleasant if we assume good intentions all around, and avoid name-calling.

But -- I wouldn't want to go admitting that all Allan's points are spot-on correct, either.

While we are making stipulations here:

1) Do we all agree that large, unknown numbers of tabs of LSD were distributed by Kesey, the Pranksters and the Grateful Dead at the Acid Tests during 1965 and 1966, including some that were disbursed to teenagers?

2) Do we agree that November contains 30 days, and therefore the interval from Nov. 4 to Dec. 2 can credibly be calculated as follows: 30 + 2 - 4 = 28?

3) Do we agree that the descriptions of Freemasonry in Salinger can be construed as a depiction of a group with an agenda of "secret hate"?

4) Do we agree that the cuckoo bird is well-known in folklore for its habit of brood parasitism? (See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brood_parasite)

 

[Joe Atwill]

Jer

Number 2 above - LOL