ALEX JONES: DISINFO AGENT ?

[lorenhough]

THE DISINFORMATION COMPANY

The work of right-wing loud-mouth conspiracy celebrity Alex Jones, including a number of documentaries, like Endgame: Blueprint for Global Enslavement and New World Order, and his book The Answer to 1984 Is 1776, were distributed and or published by Satanist and Crowleyite Richard Metzger’s Disinformation Company, a company that connects technopagans and transhumanists. Metzger was the host of the TV show Disinformation, the Disinformation Company and its websiteDisinfo.com, featuring the tagline “everything you know is wrong,” that focuses on current affairs titles and seeks to expose alleged conspiracy theories, occultism, politics, news oddities and purported disinformation.

Metzger admits that from an early age he identified himself as a “warlock,” and that, “through a careful study of [Kenneth] Anger’s work and through this influence, in part, I continued to move towards combining my career ambitions of working in film, television and publishing with my private magical interests.”[1] Anger, the notorious producer of Crowley-inspired underground films, was the key figure around which swirled the network of Laurel Canyon musicians, occultists, and members the Mason Family and the Church of Satan. Ultimately, Meztger considers the Disinformation Company to be a “magick business,” and explains:

Magick—defined by Aleister Crowley as the art and science of causing change in conformity with will—has always been the vital core of all of the projects we undertake at The Disinformation Company. Whether via our website, publishing activities or our TV series, the idea of being able to influence reality in some beneficial way is what drives our activities. I’ve always considered The Disinformation Company Ltd. and our various activities to constitute a very complex spell.[2]

In addition to Alex Jones, the Disinformation Company has also been responsible for a number of apparently establishment-critical or conspiracy-inclined documentaries, such Outfoxed: Rupert Murdoch’s War on Journalism (2004), Uncovered: The Whole Truth About the Iraq War (2004), Bush Family Fortunes: The Best Democracy Money Can Buy (directed by Greg Palast), Wal-Mart: The High Cost of Low Price (2005), Iraq for Sale: The War Profiteers (2006), Slacker Uprising (a movie of Michael Moore’s tour of colleges in swing states during the 2004 election, as well as 9/11: Press for Truth (2006), 9/11 Mysteries (2006).

Disinformation, also known as Disinfo Nation, was a television show hosted by Metzger, which aired for two seasons on Channel 4’s late night “4Later” programming block in the UK. The sixteen 30-minute episodes produced for C4 were then cut down to four one-hour “specials,” intended for the Sci Fi Channel in America, but never aired due to their controversial content. Those four shows have subsequently been released on a DVD, with a second bonus disc presenting highlights of DisinfoCon, a twelve-hour event held in 2000, featuring Metzger, and a host of occult celebrities, including Marilyn Manson, Kenneth Anger, painter Joe Coleman, Douglas Rushkoff, Mark Pesce, Grant Morrison, Robert Anton Wilson, Todd Brendan Fahey and others.

The bizarre irony is that, Disinformation seems to produce just that: disinformation. A telling example is Metzger’s interview on Disinfo Nation of Ted Gunderson, a former FBI agent who is known for his investigations of a secret and widespread network of groups in the US who kidnap children and subject them to Satanic ritual abuse and human sacrifice. However, Metzger’s “documentary” is obviously a mockery, in the Discordian style of “humor,” and the playing of both sides typical of Robert Anton Wilson. Gunderson’s focus has been on abuse within the CIA and military establishment, and he mentions that southern California is a pivotal area of Satanic cult activity. However, although Meztger’s documentary claims to be a “deep and undercover look” at the “shadowy figures” in Satanism today, he juxtaposes Gunderson’s comments by reporting on a pitiful group of bumpkin Satanist wannabes.


http://www.conspiracyschool.com/blog/alex-jones-disinfo-agent-satanists

 

[lorenhough]

THE DISINFORMATION COMPANY

The work of right-wing loud-mouth conspiracy celebrity Alex Jones, including a number of documentaries, like Endgame: Blueprint for Global Enslavement and New World Order, and his book The Answer to 1984 Is 1776, were distributed and or published by Satanist and Crowleyite Richard Metzger’s Disinformation Company, a company that connects technopagans and transhumanists. Metzger was the host of the TV show Disinformation, the Disinformation Company and its websiteDisinfo.com, featuring the tagline “everything you know is wrong,” that focuses on current affairs titles and seeks to expose alleged conspiracy theories, occultism, politics, news oddities and purported disinformation.

Metzger admits that from an early age he identified himself as a “warlock,” and that, “through a careful study of [Kenneth] Anger’s work and through this influence, in part, I continued to move towards combining my career ambitions of working in film, television and publishing with my private magical interests.”[1] Anger, the notorious producer of Crowley-inspired underground films, was the key figure around which swirled the network of Laurel Canyon musicians, occultists, and members the Mason Family and the Church of Satan. Ultimately, Meztger considers the Disinformation Company to be a “magick business,” and explains:

Magick—defined by Aleister Crowley as the art and science of causing change in conformity with will—has always been the vital core of all of the projects we undertake at The Disinformation Company. Whether via our website, publishing activities or our TV series, the idea of being able to influence reality in some beneficial way is what drives our activities. I’ve always considered The Disinformation Company Ltd. and our various activities to constitute a very complex spell.[2]

In addition to Alex Jones, the Disinformation Company has also been responsible for a number of apparently establishment-critical or conspiracy-inclined documentaries, such Outfoxed: Rupert Murdoch’s War on Journalism (2004), Uncovered: The Whole Truth About the Iraq War (2004), Bush Family Fortunes: The Best Democracy Money Can Buy (directed by Greg Palast), Wal-Mart: The High Cost of Low Price (2005), Iraq for Sale: The War Profiteers (2006), Slacker Uprising (a movie of Michael Moore’s tour of colleges in swing states during the 2004 election, as well as 9/11: Press for Truth (2006), 9/11 Mysteries (2006).

Disinformation, also known as Disinfo Nation, was a television show hosted by Metzger, which aired for two seasons on Channel 4’s late night “4Later” programming block in the UK. The sixteen 30-minute episodes produced for C4 were then cut down to four one-hour “specials,” intended for the Sci Fi Channel in America, but never aired due to their controversial content. Those four shows have subsequently been released on a DVD, with a second bonus disc presenting highlights of DisinfoCon, a twelve-hour event held in 2000, featuring Metzger, and a host of occult celebrities, including Marilyn Manson, Kenneth Anger, painter Joe Coleman, Douglas Rushkoff, Mark Pesce, Grant Morrison, Robert Anton Wilson, Todd Brendan Fahey and others.

The bizarre irony is that, Disinformation seems to produce just that: disinformation. A telling example is Metzger’s interview on Disinfo Nation of Ted Gunderson, a former FBI agent who is known for his investigations of a secret and widespread network of groups in the US who kidnap children and subject them to Satanic ritual abuse and human sacrifice. However, Metzger’s “documentary” is obviously a mockery, in the Discordian style of “humor,” and the playing of both sides typical of Robert Anton Wilson. Gunderson’s focus has been on abuse within the CIA and military establishment, and he mentions that southern California is a pivotal area of Satanic cult activity. However, although Meztger’s documentary claims to be a “deep and undercover look” at the “shadowy figures” in Satanism today, he juxtaposes Gunderson’s comments by reporting on a pitiful group of bumpkin Satanist wannabes.


http://www.conspiracyschool.com/blog/alex-jones-disinfo-agent-satanists

I like Allen watt, as far I can see, but jones seems off to me, like saying we are winning battle against the elite, he doesn't have the clear minded thinking that Allen has, in this Vedio

 

[lorenhough]

I like Allen watt, as far I can see, but jones seems off to me, like saying we are winning battle against the elite, he doesn't have the clear minded thinking that Allen has, in this Vedio

I found Allen watt and jan Irving on Alex jones show. And found joe atwill on Jan's show, it seems to me Alex sheep dips in the good guys, in Oder to make himself look good but Alex seems to be just black hummer for the big boys.

 

[Jerry Russell]

Alex Jones definitely has a theological perspective, which I think tends to color his views. Metzger is interested in the occult and does not necessarily have a negative view of it, but it seems to be an exaggeration to call him a Satanist. At any rate, he personally denies it in an interview here. Livingstone's comments about Metzger's documentary making a "mockery" out of Satanism, is entirely consistent with the interview where Metzger says he likes to make fun of Satanists, and he believes they're silly.

Jones' choice to work on some projects with Metzger might be questionable judgement on Jones' part. Similarly, if Metzger didn't take Gunderson's allegations seriously enough, it could be another example of bad judgment. But none of this is evidence that Jones or Metzger are "controlled opposition", or "black hummer for the big boys." Sometimes people just fall short of the perfection we would ideally like to see.

 

[Craig_Bickford]

Of course I can't find the youtube links at the moment (the usual for me, either they are buried behind search results or possibly they were taken down by some notices that Infowars sent out, I don't know),but I have seen videos of Jones Co-opting protests.

 

[lorenhough]

Of course I can't find the youtube links at the moment (the usual for me, either they are buried behind search results or possibly they were taken down by some notices that Infowars sent out, I don't know),but I have seen videos of Jones Co-opting protests.

a sad day in hell! Alex is a very bad man
90 % truth then comes the hit the big lie! See here what I mean @ this LH

 

[Craig_Bickford]

Alex Jones definitely has a theological perspective, which I think tends to color his views. Metzger is interested in the occult and does not necessarily have a negative view of it, but it seems to be an exaggeration to call him a Satanist. At any rate, he personally denies it in an interview here. Livingstone's comments about Metzger's documentary making a "mockery" out of Satanism, is entirely consistent with the interview where Metzger says he likes to make fun of Satanists, and he believes they're silly.

Jones' choice to work on some projects with Metzger might be questionable judgement on Jones' part. Similarly, if Metzger didn't take Gunderson's allegations seriously enough, it could be another example of bad judgment. But none of this is evidence that Jones or Metzger are "controlled opposition", or "black hummer for the big boys." Sometimes people just fall short of the perfection we would ideally like to see.

I've been reading Disinformation and Metzger's work for a while, especially his connections to Boyd Ride and many chaos magicians. If he is not a satanism or into dark occultism of a sort, he is definitely sympathetic to their cause and their position. We can also see by the Ted Gunderson interviews what kind of Satanism he thinks is existing in the world when he showcase those clowns from Southern California to juxtapose against Gundersen , and at the same time appearing to ritually mock Gunderson. Not sure if anyone saw that interview but he places Gunderson in a chair for the interview in front of a set of cattle horns mounted on a wall, so as the horns appear to be coming out of Gunderson's head. That is some pretty obvious occult mockery in my opinion that Metzger was engaged in, or some subtle symbolic associations he wanted people to absorb maybe.

He can deny it all he wants but his actions contradict his statements at least in light of his support of them (individuals with satanic leanings or outright doctrinal positions like Rice), even going so far as to name one of his anthologies the Book of Lies, named after the Crowley work. This is like the politician who says I'm not trying to destroy the middle class, and then continues to enact legislation that destroys the middle class at every turn. It's a type of gas lighting in my opinion, and Metzger doesn't need to be a card carrying Satanist to be promoting their positions or views, as he is demonstrated by publishing their positions and views over, and over and over.

 

[Craig_Bickford]

Also the red devil horns in the Disinformation logo just add to the duping delight that that outfit must get when they deny this stuff, while surrounding themselves with the trappings and symbols of it, and publishing it all over the place while denying they themselves have any connection to it.

 

[Craig_Bickford]

Another side issue here might be; how are we defining satanism? I know my definition of it has narr I wed and expanded depending on what is being talked about, and this has caused others a lot if confusion sometimes. I don't have time right now to get reply about definitions at length but hopefully this weekend I can get back on here to contribute more.

 

[Michael Wagner]

THE DISINFORMATION COMPANY

The work of right-wing loud-mouth conspiracy celebrity Alex Jones, including a number of documentaries, like Endgame: Blueprint for Global Enslavement and New World Order, and his book The Answer to 1984 Is 1776, were distributed and or published by Satanist and Crowleyite Richard Metzger’s Disinformation Company, a company that connects technopagans and transhumanists. Metzger was the host of the TV show Disinformation, the Disinformation Company and its websiteDisinfo.com, featuring the tagline “everything you know is wrong,” that focuses on current affairs titles and seeks to expose alleged conspiracy theories, occultism, politics, news oddities and purported disinformation.

Metzger admits that from an early age he identified himself as a “warlock,” and that, “through a careful study of [Kenneth] Anger’s work and through this influence, in part, I continued to move towards combining my career ambitions of working in film, television and publishing with my private magical interests.”[1] Anger, the notorious producer of Crowley-inspired underground films, was the key figure around which swirled the network of Laurel Canyon musicians, occultists, and members the Mason Family and the Church of Satan. Ultimately, Meztger considers the Disinformation Company to be a “magick business,” and explains:

Magick—defined by Aleister Crowley as the art and science of causing change in conformity with will—has always been the vital core of all of the projects we undertake at The Disinformation Company. Whether via our website, publishing activities or our TV series, the idea of being able to influence reality in some beneficial way is what drives our activities. I’ve always considered The Disinformation Company Ltd. and our various activities to constitute a very complex spell.[2]

In addition to Alex Jones, the Disinformation Company has also been responsible for a number of apparently establishment-critical or conspiracy-inclined documentaries, such Outfoxed: Rupert Murdoch’s War on Journalism (2004), Uncovered: The Whole Truth About the Iraq War (2004), Bush Family Fortunes: The Best Democracy Money Can Buy (directed by Greg Palast), Wal-Mart: The High Cost of Low Price (2005), Iraq for Sale: The War Profiteers (2006), Slacker Uprising (a movie of Michael Moore’s tour of colleges in swing states during the 2004 election, as well as 9/11: Press for Truth (2006), 9/11 Mysteries (2006).

Disinformation, also known as Disinfo Nation, was a television show hosted by Metzger, which aired for two seasons on Channel 4’s late night “4Later” programming block in the UK. The sixteen 30-minute episodes produced for C4 were then cut down to four one-hour “specials,” intended for the Sci Fi Channel in America, but never aired due to their controversial content. Those four shows have subsequently been released on a DVD, with a second bonus disc presenting highlights of DisinfoCon, a twelve-hour event held in 2000, featuring Metzger, and a host of occult celebrities, including Marilyn Manson, Kenneth Anger, painter Joe Coleman, Douglas Rushkoff, Mark Pesce, Grant Morrison, Robert Anton Wilson, Todd Brendan Fahey and others.

The bizarre irony is that, Disinformation seems to produce just that: disinformation. A telling example is Metzger’s interview on Disinfo Nation of Ted Gunderson, a former FBI agent who is known for his investigations of a secret and widespread network of groups in the US who kidnap children and subject them to Satanic ritual abuse and human sacrifice. However, Metzger’s “documentary” is obviously a mockery, in the Discordian style of “humor,” and the playing of both sides typical of Robert Anton Wilson. Gunderson’s focus has been on abuse within the CIA and military establishment, and he mentions that southern California is a pivotal area of Satanic cult activity. However, although Meztger’s documentary claims to be a “deep and undercover look” at the “shadowy figures” in Satanism today, he juxtaposes Gunderson’s comments by reporting on a pitiful group of bumpkin Satanist wannabes.


http://www.conspiracyschool.com/blog/alex-jones-disinfo-agent-satanists

Replying to an old post but : Jones has even said on air that he is part of a "good Illuminati" with Rosicrucian roots, which believes in the "New Atlantis" (Bacon's proto-security state), and that his God "brings Promethean fire" (a Luciferian/Theosophical trope) to inspire human progress.

In short he is of the ilk that the problem with the elite and their secrets (esoteric, deifying gnosis) is that they don't share them with everybody. Of course the whole plan of the "new world order" was always to out itself and initate everyone into its "secrets", to "externalize the hierarchy". And there is plenty of evidence that the whole truther/conspiracy movement is an elite-run means to do this, to seel the problem as the solution.

htpps://m.youtube.com/watch?t=8s&v=nikd8Kd8sg

 

[Jerry Russell]

Here is the correct link to the video --

Jones's "good Illuminati" seems to be a reference to the 'Age of Enlightenment' (aka the 'Age of Reason'), typically dated from circa 1620 to 1789. Following the Reformation, there was a period of increasing questioning of all revealed and organized religion; questioning the divine right of Kings and Nobles; and calls for freedom and democracy, culminating in the American and French revolutions. This was also a time of great scientific progress: the theory of gravity, the study of anatomy, chemistry, electricity, optics, and the steam engine.

Jones claims that during this time, the 'enlightened' ones had no secret agenda. He says that the Freemasons and Rosicrucians of the time were simply trumpeting the call for freedom and democracy. He thinks that Weishaupt's Illuminati was a secret Catholic plot to take over the Masons.

Our suspicion is that the Jesuits were founded as a counter-revolutionary response to the Protestant Reformation, and that elements of the Freemasons were always actively promoting the interests of royalty, nobility and the Catholic Church. We aren't inclined to automatically give a free pass to the secret societies of that time. Jones's analysis does raise the possibility of factions and factionalism within secret societies such as the Masons. It's easy to imagine that 'good' and 'evil' tendencies might be battling it out behind the scenes. Or if not exactly 'good' or 'evil', at least divergent.

 

[Michael Wagner]

Here is the correct link to the video --

Jones's "good Illuminati" seems to be a reference to the 'Age of Enlightenment' (aka the 'Age of Reason'), typically dated from circa 1620 to 1789. Following the Reformation, there was a period of increasing questioning of all revealed and organized religion; questioning the divine right of Kings and Nobles; and calls for freedom and democracy, culminating in the American and French revolutions. This was also a time of great scientific progress: the theory of gravity, the study of anatomy, chemistry, electricity, optics, and the steam engine.

Jones claims that during this time, the 'enlightened' ones had no secret agenda. He says that the Freemasons and Rosicrucians of the time were simply trumpeting the call for freedom and democracy. He thinks that Weishaupt's Illuminati was a secret Catholic plot to take over the Masons.

Our suspicion is that the Jesuits were founded as a counter-revolutionary response to the Protestant Reformation, and that elements of the Freemasons were always actively promoting the interests of royalty, nobility and the Catholic Church. We aren't inclined to automatically give a free pass to the secret societies of that time. Jones's analysis does raise the possibility of factions and factionalism within secret societies such as the Masons. It's easy to imagine that 'good' and 'evil' tendencies might be battling it out behind the scenes. Or if not exactly 'good' or 'evil', at least divergent.

Thanks, yes of course his 1776 trope is going to invoke the Enlightenment and American Masonry. But what concerns me is the invocation on repeated occasions of "the New Atlantis" as his model for an ideal society, when that was Bacon's blueprint for the system he claims to oppose. Of course Amarucca, Land of the Serpent was founded precisely to create this new order/brave new world of the secret societies, not to "free" anyone, except in the form of weaponized atomization. As Huxley said, all the revolutions end in the brave new world. (Pity, I rather like the idea of liberty.)

As well Jones invokes a god who "brings Promethean fire", a now well-known esoteric code for Lucifer bringing/representing the hidden gnosis which deifies, allegedly through the imparting of intellect to what would otherwise be a beast or automaton, if "Adonay" the lesser demiurge had his way, the occult spin on Genesis. (Merely a justification for viewing and treating the uninitiated or "profane" as subhuman/cattle/useless eaters/Morlocks etc. etc.)

Of course Jones may mot be thinking that deeply during a trademark bombastic rant, and could simply have meant his God wants everyone to grow and achieve.; as opposed to an elite maintaining a monopoly on knowledge which turns them into a technocracy/breakaway civilization. However the main trope in truther/conspiracy circles is that the "problem" is that everyone does not possess the forbidden fruit which makes you as gods, rather than that it is *forrbidden*; the "solution" being sharing it with the masses. Leading many to believe the conspiracy/truth movement to be controlled opposition as a means to initiate mankind as a whole into the Mysteries.

 

[Michael Wagner]

Another side issue here might be; how are we defining satanism? I know my definition of it has narr I wed and expanded depending on what is being talked about, and this has caused others a lot if confusion sometimes. I don't have time right now to get reply about definitions at length but hopefully this weekend I can get back on here to contribute more.

Personally, I view Satanism as "esoteric supremacism", the idea that through knowledge hidden from most one can become "truly human", unlike the uninitiate; or through gnosis transcending normal human experience, one can become one's own god. There as usual is a dialectic here between materialists wanting to become an emergent deity through, say, technocracy and transhumanism, and ideas like those in theosophy and the new age where a "god-man" fully realizing the potential of his innate divinity emerges.

In any case people like LaVey or Crowley are like kids in a treehouse becoming "blood brothers" with a pen knife or Ralph and Norton at tbe Raccoon Lodge compared to the real power at work.

 

[Jerry Russell]

The Enlightenment period, 1620-1789, was also the time when the idea of universal, free public education first took hold. Before that, even basic skills such as literacy were only available to a relatively small elite. And the idea of universal education went hand in hand with democracy: the people needed to have the skills to participate effectively. This was the opposite of "esoteric supremacism".

Within "truther/conspiracy circles" I think there's a growing insight that the public school system really isn't working. It isn't producing the kinds of well-informed, thoughtful citizens that we really need for democratic government to function as intended. So, the goal is to use the Internet and whatever other means are available, to convey the supplemental information. And it's possible that "truther" circles are heavily infiltrated by agents; but if so, their goal seems to be to discredit the movement, and prevent the knowledge from becoming widespread.

Of course Jones may mot be thinking that deeply during a trademark bombastic rant, and could simply have meant his God wants everyone to grow and achieve.;

Yes, this is my view: Jones is delivering a rant, and is not intending for phrases such as "new Atlantis" to be interpreted as you suggest. (I didn't hear "Promethean fire" in this video, maybe that was some other rant.) I see him as clearly advocating for popular, democratic Enlightenment idealism, rather than cryptically calling for elite secret society rule.

But, his credulous and enthusiastic support for the Trump bandwagon is very distressing.

 

[Michael Wagner]

You would do well to remember the words of Christ, be he Messiah or Flavian fiction:

"To you (speaking to his inner circle) it is given to know the secrets of the kingdom of God. But to them that are outside, in parables; so that seeing, they might not see, and hearing, they might not perceive, lest at any time they should turn and I should heal them."

Meaning (in case of Messiah) he is presenting truth in such a way that the faithless and unjust will turn it against themselves. Even if not, a similar principle applies in the education of the masses: the "education" is not for your benefit, it is meant to entrap and destroy you, unless you prove to be "one of Them" after all, by seeing through it to the hidden meaning. (Alex Jones admits at least to receiving such an invitation to join the Club, which he alleges to have refused.)

And by hoarding knowledge I do not mean readin', writin', 'rithmetic, and rationalism--all necessary for the masses to be initiated into the mysteries. (You cant read Blavatsky if you can't spell it or use Dewey.) I mean Tesla, A.I., the TR3B for them, Edison, the iPhone and the Prius for us. The supposed secrets of cosmic spirituality for them, "88 Reasons the Rapture Will Occur in 1988" for us.

The elite goal behind the conspiracy/truth movement is to foment desire to break the elite monopoly on the deifying Gnosis ("WAHHH I want that extraterrestrial power source running MY car!!"), and let a fraction of the Knowledge out, thus assuring a low level of initiation for all, and creating a vast pool of candidates from which to select the chosen few to come up hither while the rest are depopulated. "You shall not surely die, you shall become as gods" is old lie made new.

 

[Richard Stanley]

You would do well to remember the words of Christ, be he Messiah or Flavian fiction:

"To you (speaking to his inner circle) it is given to know the secrets of the kingdom of God. But to them that are outside, in parables; so that seeing, they might not see, and hearing, they might not perceive, lest at any time they should turn and I should heal them."

Yes, outsiders like the Greek pigs!!! This is just one reason I asked you about whether Jesus (factual or fictional) was a Christian on the other thread. When the Bible says Jesus's father was a tekton, was it saying he was a 'carpenter' or a 'mason'? An operative builder, whether a carpenter or stone mason, or rather a speculative 'mason'?

Meaning (in case of Messiah) he is presenting truth in such a way that the faithless and unjust will turn it against themselves. Even if not, a similar principle applies in the education of the masses: the "education" is not for your benefit, it is meant to entrap and destroy you, unless you prove to be "one of Them" after all, by seeing through it to the hidden meaning. (Alex Jones admits at least to receiving such an invitation to join the Club, which he alleges to have refused.)

And by hoarding knowledge I do not mean readin', writin', 'rithmetic, and rationalism--all necessary for the masses to be initiated into the mysteries. (You cant read Blavatsky if you can't spell it or use Dewey.) I mean Tesla, A.I., the TR3B for them, Edison, the iPhone and the Prius for us. The supposed secrets of cosmic spirituality for them, "88 Reasons the Rapture Will Occur in 1988" for us.

Even with the advent of public (now pubic) education, there has always been the tiered system, with 'class' institutional advantages, and most of the hoi polloi always understood to be aspiring to more subservient career choices, albeit there being exceptions to the rule.

The elite goal behind the conspiracy/truth movement is to foment desire to break the elite monopoly on the deifying Gnosis ("WAHHH I want that extraterrestrial power source running MY car!!"), and let a fraction of the Knowledge out, thus assuring a low level of initiation for all, and creating a vast pool of candidates from which to select the chosen few to come up hither while the rest are depopulated. "You shall not surely die, you shall become as gods" is old lie made new.

This seems to be a riff on the old Snake / Dragon using Eve to tempt Adam to eat of the forbidden Tree of Knowledge. I'm guessing you would agree?

However, I see the elite's goal as successfully attempting to profit from the conspiracies that they themselves have fomented, and for one, to foment distrust by the general public in institutions that the elite only ever considered as transitional stepping stones for their long term goals. And which they are only cyclically repeating, e.g. the creation of the Roman Republic, its destruction, and rise of the Imperium, to be cemented by the feudal Dark Ages promised by Roman Christianity. This is why I have argued the remnant royalists of Europe (Mont Pelerin Society) have fostered libertarian Austrian School Economics and unrestrained Randism (a seeming paradox), because, despite the 'freedom' rhetoric, it necessarily leads to economic inequalities that mirror the desired Christian caste system of the Catholic Traditionalist, aka Monarchists. By mirroring the desired system, it facilitates and greases the skids to the imposition of such in the New Order.

 

[Michael Wagner]

Since speculative Masonry was a Renaissance development, I'd obviously say operative, e.g. practical. A better term is "master craftsman", a combination of architect, general contractor and interior and exterior designer in today's terminology.

And I don't see Jesus as viewing Greeks as pigs; he chiefly meant the Sanhedrin and their ilk. (Rejection of their racist supremacism and xenophobia is what got him in such hot water with them. Or he was invented by tbe Flaviansbto defang it, pot-AY-to, po-TAH-to. Neither one is compatible with a xenophobic Christ figure).

But we agree about weaponized liberty leading to totalitarian goals. This is the intent, but I don't think it is inevitable. One can imagine, for example, a system of private competitive free enterprise without federal taxation, fiat currency debt slavery, or phony "free trade" agreements (replaced by tariffs which also replace taxation). And of course the Masonic refrain of "liberty, equality, fraternity" is self-contradictory, the equality and fraternity are there to frustrate the liberty. We could edit them out.

But if monarchy returns it won't be under a Christian motif, more like the World King of the "Protocols", mixed with a new age World Teacher.

 

[Jerry Russell]

And I don't see Jesus as viewing Greeks as pigs;

Perhaps part of the problem here is that Richard is talking about "historical Jesus", a Jewish zealot, while you are talking about "biblical Jesus", the Roman collaborator? Anyhow, I would say that "biblical Jesus" created a new xenophobic classification system, dividing the world into his followers ("Christians") vs. everyone else.

But if monarchy returns it won't be under a Christian motif, more like the World King of the "Protocols", mixed with a new age World Teacher.

It does seem that Christianity is being phased out for the new millennium, and the Catholic hierarchy is OK with that. Thus we have the Catholic lamb (Tim Kelly) comfortably doing a podcast with the Postflavian wolf (Joe Atwill)? Is it just a matter of time before the Pope admits that Christ was Caesar? Right, bygones.

But, you are expecting the new World King to be the King of the Jews? The scion of David, as described in Protocol #24 of the Protocols of the Elders of Zion? That would be the Age of Aries, not the Age of Aquarius.

 

[Michael Wagner]

I think Tim like myself enjoys Joe's insights into affairs while not agreeing on the ultimate explanation. He also has Orthodox Jay Dyer and semi-futurist James Perloff on.

As for the age of Aries connection, I admit that's a new one on me, but perhaps I am wrong and it will simply be the theosophical World Teacher/ new age Maitreya that appears to "save" us from the evil powers that be? I just assumed that such a figure would encompass corrupted Jewish messianic hopes as part of his syncretism; why else bother with a new carnal temple from which he is to reign as the apotheosis of man? (Of course in your schemata it works differently.)

And of course I see your "historical Jesus" as speculative at best. And though Biblical Jesus does make a "separation", it is based on the right standards: do you trust and obey God as did Abraham, or do you not? Not based on ethnic prejudice.

 

[Michael Wagner]

And Atwill is at worst a "goat"; "wolves" travel in sheep's clothing, and devour (capitalize upon or exploit) the flock. Being dyslexic enough to see the Good Shepherd as just another wolf doesn't make him one.