911 Pentagon

Before responding to the previous comments, I'll post this link here, as it took some finding amongst the several hundreds of topics on the old CIT Research Forum.

This thread contains all the photos of the taxi cab taken in 2008 by Craig Ranke and Christopher Taylor when Lloyde England kindly invited them to visit his country property where he had stored it for several years.

This is a valuable resource, which needs archiving.

The typical hater comments by Ranke are preposterous in light of the magnitude of damage done to the interior of the cab.

The severity of this damage was accurately described by Lloyde, but dismissed by CIT.

Still, we have people claiming that Lloyde or some other party unknown inflicted the damage to his car with e.g. a baseball bat, as though the smashed windshield was the sum total of it.

Ranke ridiculed the sensible claim by Adam Larson (Caustic Logic / Frustrating Fraud) that all of this damage was clearly inflicted by the impaling pole.

However it is clear that, though both of their perceptions of the pole's identity and Lloyde's location at the time of the impact are confused, the only thing which could have inflicted this linear damage path through the taxi, from windshield, dashboard, passenger seat hinge, rear seat leather and steel firewall, was a 4 inch hollow metal pole with neatly sawn end, projected forcefully in a direct line from front to rear of the vehicle.

https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/cit/cit-exclusive-images-of-cab-released-t439.html#p2075928
 
I just realized this, but I think the suspicously low amount of traffic on southbound Route 27 could be linked to the staged downing of the lightpoles on this stretch of road just hours before. If the light poles were downed under the pretext of 'routine maintenance' or some highway safety directive for instance, maybe Christopher Landis knew that THESE EXACT POLES would be downed but didn't know the reason why (just a directive given to him by a superior or a more complicit operative). He could've even authorized the tongueless trailer which was probably used to transport those light poles to their locations on 9/11. It could've all been done under the disguise of routine lightpole maintenance.

That's maybe why he was killed. He knew the light poles were downed before the Pentagon event. Someone in his position, as operations manager for highway safety patrol, would be privy to that information in all highway-related matters.

A related question I had: Was northbound traffic bumper-to-bumper the usual state of rush hour traffic in D.C. beside the Pentagon, or was it a side-effect of VDOT exercising authority to clear SOUTHBOUND lanes to work on the light poles hours before the event? I believe a few people mentioned the large amount of northbound traffic to be unusual.

BTW, you'd know better than anyone and I'm certainly not requesting you to do so, but – have you come across any photos of light-poles 1 and 2 standing on the morning of 9/11, but prior to Pentagon event? I think that'd be very interesting.

edit: re-reading CIT's commentary on the matter, I'm convinced it's related to this. We knew his death was suspicious, but CIT didn't really articulate why.

He was in charge of road closures for road safety issues and potentially maintenance most notably of the light poles. We had specific questions for him regarding prior maintenance to the poles that were downed on 9/11 but he wasn't able to give us specific answers.

This must be it. The southbound lanes were CLOSED. Lloyde's car and STEVE RISKUS were specifically permitted to get through. Christopher Landis knew about the downed lightpoles prior to the event, and the associated road closure.
 
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The TOW TRUCK and TRAILER were on the southbound lanes already due to the associated road closure. They were simply parked on the clover leaf waiting for the 'go-ahead'.

A good question (perhaps no answer though?): who allowed RISKUS and Lloyde (and the WHITE VAN and DECOY CAB) to drive on south thru the road closure? It was obviously someone at VDOT, but if not Landis, who? Hmm...
 
Ruby, I don't know if you've come across this, but it's interesting. From June 2022.

https://www.nbcwashington.com/news/...-bill-with-their-late-father-on-9-11/3079625/

Arlington Family Meets Man Who Split Dollar Bill With Their Late Father on 9/11​


An Arlington, Virginia, family recently met someone who has an indelible connection to their deceased father that was forged in the chaos and smoking debris at the Pentagon on Sept. 11, 2001.

Lloyde England nearly was impaled in his taxicab that day by a flying utility pole that was knocked down by American Airlines Flight 77 as it crashed into the Pentagon at 530 mph. After realizing his cab wouldn’t start, England eventually began walking home, dazed and in some pain.

He walked some of the way with a military officer from the Pentagon. Before parting, one of them spotted a dollar bill on the ground.

“He signed one part of the dollar bill, I signed the other part of the dollar bill, and he gave me the side of the dollar bill that he signed, and I’m going to keep this,” England told News4 on Sept. 16, 2001. “It might not mean anything to anyone else, but as long as I’m alive, it means something to me.”

He died Dec. 28, 2020, after a lengthy illness.

On the 20th anniversary of 9/11, News4 reporter Shomari Stone surprised England’s daughter Nancy England-Adams by locating the military officer whose signature was on the half of the dollar bill her father kept and which she still had. Marc Vandeveer still had his half, with Lloyde England’s signature on it.

Vandeveer had moved out of the D.C. area, so when the opportunity to meet England’s family came in early June, he took it.

“Everyone on the planet that observed the 9/11 events knew where they were, and no one will ever forget that moment, and it’s these human stories and connections that make it all the more special,” Vandeveer said.

“We stayed in contact the whole time since our first interview,” England-Adams said. “We called each other, we wished each other holidays and Father’s Days and Mother’s Days and texting, so we stayed in contact.”

I believe you mentioned that Vandeever could've been a fake name.
 
Brilliant!! How did you come across this???

Yes, it had been suggested that the name "Marc VandeMeer" was fake, because it had been read wrongly from the photo taken by CIT. They tried to locate a person by that name, and could not find anyone.
I searched much later, and found a pro footballer by the name Marc VandeMeer.

But since it was actually VandeVeer, that solves the mystery!!

This certainly rewards my faith in the truth of Lloyde England's story from start to finish. Every other detail he described, no matter how fanciful it was claimed to be by the haters, has been proven true.

Can't wait to post this on Craig McKee's FB site!!
 
Brilliant!! How did you come across this???

Yes, it had been suggested that the name "Marc VandeMeer" was fake, because it had been read wrongly from the photo taken by CIT. They tried to locate a person by that name, and could not find anyone.
I searched much later, and found a pro footballer by the name Marc VandeMeer.

But since it was actually VandeVeer, that solves the mystery!!

This certainly rewards my faith in the truth of Lloyde England's story from start to finish. Every other detail he described, no matter how fanciful it was claimed to be by the haters, has been proven true.

Can't wait to post this on Craig McKee's FB site!!

I googled "Lloyde England" to see if there were any updates to the case, interesting news articles, stuff like that. This was one of the first results.

Glad you have another piece of evidence to your arsenal :) A strong piece of evidence.
 
Craig McKee is predictably unimpressed.
He says this is "nonsense".
He accused me of "muddying the waters" and of "doing as much to obscure the truth as David Chandler is" !!
 
The two halves of the dollar bill match perfectly.
Same number on both sides.
Same shape to the tear.
The lettering matches up.
Screenshot_20231124-013609_Photos~2.jpg

On the half kept by Lloyde, the writing reads :

Marc Vandeveer
United States
Air Force
Pentagon
11 Sep '01.

On the half kept by Vandeveer, Lloyde had written :

Lloyde A. England
Capitol Cab 677
9.11.01.

Lloyde's taxi, number 677 :

Screenshot_20231124-013302_YouTube~2.jpg

Marc Vandeveer with his half of the dollar bill :

Screenshot_20231124-010454_Chrome~2.jpg

Marc Vandeveer has had quite a stellar career since his time in the Air Force.

Screenshot_20231124-014155_Chrome~2.jpg

This is certainly not "nonsense"!
 
Watched a bit of Sheila Casey's interview on that podcast...she didn't know that Lloyde died some time ago. She says she tried to track him down and couldn't. (You tracked him down but he didn't want to talk, if I recall). She also said Lloyde never gave mainstream media interviews (in fact he gave at least two different interviews after 9/11 to MSM).
 
Indeed! I tried to get know Sheila Casey and Adam Syed as they seemed to be the only origjnal CIT contacts still actively campaigning in the 9/11 Pentagon Truth arena, and I respected their input from years ago.

I was shocked at Casey's very superficial and frankly erroneous grasp of Lloyde England's story. It would have been better had she not opened her mouth. She is a professional reporter, who "spent 5 whole hours researching Lloyde England"!! Appalling!

So she spent an afternoon watching CIT videos. Big deal.
She has never done any independent research at all, and she knows precisely zero facts. I find it hard to see how people with such a profound social conscience can stoop to what is nothing more than speculation, incredulity and heckling when it comes to a topic of this magnitude.

Just like McKee, another journalist, who merely makes a big noise perpetually regurgitating that hackneyed old CIT tripe. He is unable to hold a civil or serious discussion about Lloyde, because he has done no research of the facts. All he knows is the bigotry he lapped up from CIT's wild speculations and biased presentations.
I have named actual perpetrators caught in the act, but this flies right over his head.
For some reason, he thinks pillorying an innocent, deceased cab driver is the key to "9/11 Truth".

I note you have been very busy on FB! Thankyou for the support.
 
From Lloyd's obituary, his wife was "Hester" (first name), who died before he did, and Shirley Hughes is named as "his special friend". Maybe Shirley & Lloyde were a common-law couple. I came across someone on reddit who claims Lloyde was his uncle, because Lloyde married his aunt. I assume the aunt is Hester.
 
I don't know about that. Lloyde called her "my wife". I'm pretty sure they were married after 9/11. There's been considerable speculation.

That's what I heard too. I was actually a little confused. The photo for his obituary depicts him as fairly old, I figured that was his wedding photo to Shirley. This person on reddit said some things which contradict what I know about Lloyde and his account. quote is below:



[–]Yinzerman1992 82 points 1 month ago*

I was only 9 years old but I have 2 family members who were near the sites and have told me their stories countless times. Not in NYC but at the other sites.
My uncle is lloyde england, the taxi driver who was injured when a light pole fell over when Flight 77 made contact with it flying into the pentagon. (He actually married my aunt so hes my uncle by marriage). He suffers from PTSD from that day.

Unfortunately him and our family have been hounded by several 9/11 conspiracy nutjobs throughout the years and both him and my aunt have been interviewed by rather nefarious people over the years.

My father was working near shanksville for sony electronics based out new Stanton PA and was delivering materials to somerset PA the closest "town" to shanksville. He saw the first responders rushing to the field and had to take backroads backs to pittsburgh where we lived, as the turnpike was only accessible to emergency vehicles around Somerset at the time.

I have no doubt Lloyde had PTSD from the event, but I'm a little surprised the OP used present tense (this was written one month ago), he's probably not in much contact with that part of his family, but shouldn't he know that Lloyde is dead? lol. And Lloyde himself said he was not injured. But it's reasonable for people to assume he was.
 
Hmmm, yes, some irregularities.
So his aunt would be Shirley, as Lloyde's first wife died prior to 9/11, so she wasn't doing any interviews.
I guess she would be his great-aunt, with that age difference.

I never saw any signs of PTSD in Lloyde. He was always happy to be interviewed. He even told Jeff Hill that he wished more people would come so he could tell them about it.
Shirley of course is less obliging.
But it was Shirley who inferred that she didn't believe the plane hit the Pentagon. So didn't she tell her nephew about this?

Interesting. See what else you can find out!
 
Hi folks,

Catching up again on the conversation here, after Turkey Day break.

This is fascinating about Vandeveer and the dollar bill.

My question:

There are (at least) three competing narratives about Lloyde England.

(1) His taxi was hit by a light pole along the south flight path. His testimony, and the photographs, are proof of the Official Story.

(2) He was a liar and the light pole was a fake. (CIT interpretation.)

(3) His taxi was hit by a (fake) light pole along the north flight path. The taxi was then towed for staged photographs with a staged light pole on the south flight path. (Ruby Gray interpretation.)

While you're locked in a dispute over (2) vs (3) with Team McKee, to normies this would be a tempest in a teapot. (Or, worse, proof that all conspiracy theorists are just nuts.)

My position: the challenge that matters in the wider world, is to prove that narrative (1), the official story, couldn't possibly be true.

Could the Vandeveer story contribute to proof that the official story is bogus?

Does anybody know where Vandeveer and England were standing when they first met up? If it's near the north flight path, doesn't that destroy narrative (1)? Why would they be wandering around so far away from where they were supposed to be?

Regardless of the specific location of the meetup, I agree that the verification of this incident supports narrative (3) vs. narrative (2). But if we knew the path that Lloyde walked, perhaps it could also help show that the official story is BS?

Do you happen to know? (I confess I haven't watched the videos of Vandeveer testimony.) Or if we don't know yet, perhaps a quick phone call could yield interesting data.

Or perhaps with your encyclopedic knowledge of the entire photographic record, Ruby, maybe you might have noticed Vandeveer in some pics?
 
Hi folks,

Catching up again on the conversation here, after Turkey Day break.

This is fascinating about Vandeveer and the dollar bill.

My question:

There are (at least) three competing narratives about Lloyde England.

(1) His taxi was hit by a light pole along the south flight path. His testimony, and the photographs, are proof of the Official Story.

(2) He was a liar and the light pole was a fake. (CIT interpretation.)

(3) His taxi was hit by a (fake) light pole along the north flight path. The taxi was then towed for staged photographs with a staged light pole on the south flight path. (Ruby Gray interpretation.)

While you're locked in a dispute over (2) vs (3) with Team McKee, to normies this would be a tempest in a teapot. (Or, worse, proof that all conspiracy theorists are just nuts.)

My position: the challenge that matters in the wider world, is to prove that narrative (1), the official story, couldn't possibly be true.

Could the Vandeveer story contribute to proof that the official story is bogus?

Does anybody know where Vandeveer and England were standing when they first met up? If it's near the north flight path, doesn't that destroy narrative (1)? Why would they be wandering around so far away from where they were supposed to be?

Regardless of the specific location of the meetup, I agree that the verification of this incident supports narrative (3) vs. narrative (2). But if we knew the path that Lloyde walked, perhaps it could also help show that the official story is BS?

Do you happen to know? (I confess I haven't watched the videos of Vandeveer testimony.) Or if we don't know yet, perhaps a quick phone call could yield interesting data.

Or perhaps with your encyclopedic knowledge of the entire photographic record, Ruby, maybe you might have noticed Vandeveer in some pics?
Great points Jerry!
Maybe I have seen Vandeveer in some photos, without recognising him. Like most of us, I guess he has changed with the passing years.
I have long suspected that one or more of the earliest Ingersoll photos, taken from waaay back up the hill, shows Lloyde standing on the road north of the bridge, talking to one or two other guys, and that this was the moment of signing of the dollar bill.
I don't have the high resolution version of these photos though, so the detail is not what I'd like.

The photos of the bridge don't show any other individuals apart from the Fire Dept official, the detective and the bodyguard.
Then a photo shows Lloyde alone, farewelling his cab on the highway after they had left.

The E Ring had not collapsed yet according to this photo.
The time that happened is not accurately defined. There are videos of it happening, but various times are given. Anything from 20 minutes (surely too soon) to 40 minutes (probably too late) after the explosion.

Screenshot_20231128-091206_Chrome~2.jpg

Then video shows Lloyde walking south away from the bridge, with his jacket slung over his shoulder, as in that photo.
His house was to the south, not far from the Army Navy Country Club.

So it seems that he must have met Vandeveer while walking on the road at some point north of the bridge, prior to 9:55 a.m. when he was first photographed there.
 
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