911 Pentagon

Blue_Windows
Oh, well done! I've never seen this archive before.
It poses some interesting questions!

The order of these photos is different from the order that Riskus had given.
Previously I had read that the photo of his hand against the red door of his sedan, was the first photo he took.
But on studying these, I have to believe that the photos are correctly numbered in chronological order.

Therefore P1010011 is the first photo in this sequence.

This is the one where he was directly behind the taxi, which is off the right edge of this photo, just beyond the exit sign.

I enhanced the contrast in this image and rendered it B&W. The yellow lines show where the skid marks begin. They veer across from the lane in which Lloyde had told Russell Pickering he was driving. Sparkly bits on the road suggest windscreen glass here.

Screenshot_20231105-121348.png

However, as it was the 11th on this roll, and he was clearly an accomplice doing his job, (with a top quality camera, as you infer,) it makes me wonder what was on the previous 10 frames!! Presumably he started this job with a new roll of film.
He could well have taken 10 photos of the taxi with pole embedded, maybe he even took photos of the plane!! Having some such photos held in reserve would give him bargaining power with his recruiters.
And who, knowing the plot in advance, could resist taking such spectacular photos!!

Then P...12 is the second photo.
But I have never seen this one before.
It shows the dashboard, and may be assumed to have been an accidental shot.
But maybe not.
I can't open these images, only see the thumbnail. So I don't know exactly what the details are here.

That pic tells me he was still in the car, and I'm now thinking that he took the first photo, from North of the Columbia Pike overhead exit sign, from inside his car.

Then he drove just around the corner, passing the taxi, and parked there (as seen on the amateur video), before getting out and taking the first pic of the Pentagon across the highway. This does seem to have been taken from ground level.

Next he took the photo of his hand against the door, showing some projectile damage. That is P...14, #4 in the series.

He apparently climbed up the bank to take the next 2 photos of northbound traffic and the Pentagon, from a higher vantage point.
These two apparently consecutive photos are numbered P...15 and P...17.

So ... WHERE IS P...16 ???
Why was a photo deleted from this series?

He was a very capable photographer. So it wasn't because of it being a poor quality pic.
More probable is that it showed something that he did not want seen.
Such as the white van travelling South towards the bridge.
Or the vehicle transporting Lloyde to the bridge.
Or, even the towtruck and taxi heading towards the bridge.
His other photos show that there was no other southbound traffic.
But videos prove that these 3 vehicles did drive south by here.

The next 2 photos were taken from ground level, further around the Columbia Pike exit road. P...18 & 19.
The second of these actually shows the brown Jeep, presumably driven by Rumsfeld's bodyguard, heading up the approach to the bridge.
So that can be cross-referenced with the timestamped Jason Ingersoll series which shows the Jeep arriving, to give a rough timeline for Riskus's photos.

The other photos were taken as he left the area, in the sequence given.

I don't think I have seen P...23 either. This is a grassy embankment.
 
I went to an online EXIF viewer to see if Riskus' photos possibly had any geolocation data tagged. Unlikely, since that's a smartphone feature. Still, I came up with data which may or may not be useful. Maybe Xander can decide. This is metadata for P1010020 (the photo I posted):

Camera settings
MakeOLYMPUS OPTICAL CO.,LTD
ModelC3040Z
Focal length7.3 mm
Aperture7.0
Exposure1/400
ISO100
FlashNo Flash

Full metadata
Aperture7.0
BWModeOff
BitsPerSample8
CameraIDOLYMPUS DIGITAL CAMERA
CameraTypeC3040Z
CircleOfConfusion0.006 mm
ColorComponents3
ColorSpacesRGB
ComponentsConfigurationY, Cb, Cr, -
CompressedBitsPerPixel2
CompressionJPEG (old-style)
DataDumpBinary data 174 bytes
DigitalZoom1.0
EncodingProcessBaseline DCT, Huffman coding
ExifByteOrderLittle-endian (Intel, II)
ExifImageHeight1536
ExifImageWidth2048
ExifVersion0210
ExposureCompensation0
ExposureProgramProgram AE
ExposureTime1/400
FNumber7.0
FOV53.4 deg
FileAccessDate2023-11-05 02:13:11 +0000
FileInodeChangeDate2023-11-05 02:13:11 +0000
FileModifyDate2023-11-05 02:13:11 +0000
FilePermissionsprw-------
FileSize0 bytes
FileSourceDigital Camera
FileTypeJPEG
FileTypeExtensionjpg
FlashNo Flash
FlashpixVersion0100
FocalLength7.3 mm
FocalLength35efl7.3 mm (35 mm equivalent: 35.8 mm)
FocalPlaneDiagonal8.832 mm
HyperfocalDistance1.24 m
ISO100
ImageDescriptionOLYMPUS DIGITAL CAMERA
ImageHeight1536
ImageSize2048x1536
ImageWidth2048
InteropIndexR98 - DCF basic file (sRGB)
InteropVersion0100
LensDistortionParams-303 -560 -606 -277 -492 -517
LightSourceUnknown
LightValue14.3
MIMETypeimage/jpeg
MacroOff
MakeOLYMPUS OPTICAL CO.,LTD
MaxApertureValue1.8
Megapixels3.1
MeteringModeMulti-segment
ModelC3040Z
OneTouchWBOff
OrientationHorizontal (normal)
PreCaptureFrames0
QualityHQ (Normal)
Resolution1
ResolutionUnitinches
ScaleFactor35efl4.9
SceneTypeDirectly photographed
ShutterSpeed1/400
Softwarev354u-76
SpecialModeNormal, Sequence: 0, Panorama: (none)
ThumbnailImageBinary data 3838 bytes
ThumbnailLength3838
ThumbnailOffset4096
WhiteBalanceBias0
WhiteBalanceBracket0
WhiteBoard0
XResolution72
YCbCrPositioningCo-sited
YCbCrSubSamplingYCbCr4:2:2 (2 1)
YResolution72
 
Last edited:
Brilliant!! This was a digital-film camera though, right? He stated that he went straight off to get the images developed so he could post them online that afternoon, on his website that had been fortuitously set up the previous night ...

I wonder, if you get the same data for P...11, whether it would show that anything has been cropped off the image?
 
Brilliant!! This was a digital-film camera though, right? He stated that he went straight off to get the images developed so he could post them online that afternoon, on his website that had been fortuitously set up the previous night ...

I wonder, if you get the same data for P...11, whether it would show that anything has been cropped off the image?

Those are very pertinent questions, Ruby. As you noted earlier in thread, Riskus initially stated he was travelling North, when the pictures show he was North of the Pentagon, in the southbound lanes (where Lloyde was). If he omitted Lloyde's cab, he could easily lie about other details.

The EXIF website (https://jimpl.com/) tells me that Riskus used an Olympus model C3040Z series camera. As you correctly note, it's a fully digital camera.

This is a review for the camera model: https://www.dpreview.com/reviews/olympusc3040z

I'm starting to sift thru it. It's not crazy to think he's lying about "getting the images developed". However, for benefit of doubt, I looked it up and it seems you /can/ get digital camera photos developed:

With today's technological advances in digital photography one can easily print high quality pictures at home on a photo printer, or you can send them to a digital photo printing service.

source: https://www.streetdirectory.com/tra...hy/developing_your_digital_camera_photos.html

Maybe Steve sent them to a digital photo printing service that printed to those high resolutions.
 
This is the data returned for photo P...11. It doesn't say if anything's been cropped off the image. The focal length might indicate the degree of field of view.

Full metadata
Aperture7.0
BWModeOff
BitsPerSample8
CameraIDOLYMPUS DIGITAL CAMERA
CameraTypeC3040Z
CircleOfConfusion0.006 mm
ColorComponents3
ColorSpacesRGB
ComponentsConfigurationY, Cb, Cr, -
CompressedBitsPerPixel2
CompressionJPEG (old-style)
DataDumpBinary data 174 bytes
DigitalZoom1.0
EncodingProcessBaseline DCT, Huffman coding
ExifByteOrderLittle-endian (Intel, II)
ExifImageHeight1536
ExifImageWidth2048
ExifVersion0210
ExposureCompensation0
ExposureProgramProgram AE
ExposureTime1/400
FNumber7.0
FOV53.4 deg
FileAccessDate2023-11-05 02:42:23 +0000
FileInodeChangeDate2023-11-05 02:42:23 +0000
FileModifyDate2023-11-05 02:42:23 +0000
FilePermissionsprw-------
FileSize0 bytes
FileSourceDigital Camera
FileTypeJPEG
FileTypeExtensionjpg
FlashFired
FlashpixVersion0100
FocalLength7.3 mm
FocalLength35efl7.3 mm (35 mm equivalent: 35.8 mm)
FocalPlaneDiagonal8.832 mm
HyperfocalDistance1.24 m
ISO100
ImageDescriptionOLYMPUS DIGITAL CAMERA
ImageHeight1536
ImageSize2048x1536
ImageWidth2048
InteropIndexR98 - DCF basic file (sRGB)
InteropVersion0100
LensDistortionParams-303 -560 -606 -277 -492 -517
LightSourceUnknown
LightValue14.3
MIMETypeimage/jpeg
MacroOff
MakeOLYMPUS OPTICAL CO.,LTD
MaxApertureValue1.8
Megapixels3.1
MeteringModeMulti-segment
ModelC3040Z
OneTouchWBOff
OrientationHorizontal (normal)
PreCaptureFrames0
QualityHQ (Normal)
Resolution1
ResolutionUnitinches
ScaleFactor35efl4.9
SceneTypeDirectly photographed
ShutterSpeed1/400
Softwarev354u-76
SpecialModeNormal, Sequence: 0, Panorama: (none)
ThumbnailImageBinary data 4085 bytes
ThumbnailLength4085
ThumbnailOffset4096
WhiteBalanceBias0
WhiteBalanceBracket0
WhiteBoard0
XResolution72
YCbCrPositioningCo-sited
YCbCrSubSamplingYCbCr4:2:2 (2 1)
YResolution72
 
Ruby, I missed P...16 but I found it. The version I first came across was 404'd. I didn't pay attention when I was using wget. It's a command line script so the downloads were automated. However, I found it now (went back to September 17, 2001 in Wayback Machine). Sorry for any confusion.


P1010016.jpg
 
I had a few questions lingering for a while, and I'm wondering what your thoughts are. These are more open-ended questions I'd say.

The first is the DoubleTree hotel footage which is clearly edited, the timer pauses and rewinds 2 minutes, etc. JWD says the plane left the scene flying north-by-northwest upriver, mimicking an outbound flight from Reagan National. But the man is looking EAST toward Reagan National. Can you visualize this in your head? I'm pretty bad with directions and evidently, you're very good with them haha. I just wanna know if these directions are compatible.

Secondly, what do you think the conspirators could've been trying to hide with some blatant editing? Perhaps a shadow of the fly-over plane making its get-away? Or possibly grainy captures of the plane itself veering away from the Pentagon (as I believe DON SCOTT mentioned),

The third question, concerns eyewitness testimony compiled by Penny Schoner for her friend John Judge in 2002. I attached a copy to this post.

On page 3, she wrote:

There was a woman at her desk in the Pentagon, who saw the nose of the plane push through her office wall, and filed an eyewitness report about it.
The woman isn't named. But would you take stock in this account?
 

Attachments

  • F77pentagon.pdf
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Blue_Windows
Good questions!

I have queries about JWD's theory too.
Can you remind me, from what evidence did he get the idea that the plane went NxNW after the flyover?

As you know, I reject his claim about the plane doing an instantaneous steep right bank-to-left bank manouevre as it crossed the west wall. Absolutely not physically possible in any universe.

Then, he has the plane crossing directly above the explosion, which cannot have happened, as it would have created massive giveaway wing vortices in the smoke plume seen on the Gatecam footage.

Next, he claims the plane was aiming southeast over South Parking. This to him, means the area adjacent to the southwest wall. But that requires a very tight Northside loop beyond the capacity of a 757.
As we know, South Parking extends all around the Southern walls to the Eastern side. So such a tight loop is not necessary for the flyover plane.

I don't think JWD is familiar with my discovery ift the 3 damaged roofs on E, D and C Rings.
This linear damage trail is certainly consistent with engine wake forces from a large jet banking across the roof.
The trail is considerably further north than the explosion.
And according to the watermark-like images of a right-banking 757 in the sky above the lawn, perpendicular to the wall and above roof height on two of the Gatecam frames, the plane would have crossed the west wall 2 or 3 seconds prior to the explosion.
This tallies with various anomalous testimonies that the plane "just disappeared", and that some had no recollection of any noise when the plane was "swallowed up by the Pentagon," and several others who stated that there was a short delay between the plane's disappearance and the fireball.

As for Penny Schoner. I find her arguments unconvincing. Especially this one.
This is a purely anecdotal, 3rd hand account. No name, no office number.

A bird strike makes a big hole in the plastic nose cone of a jet. A monolithic wall would shred the entire fuselage. And we are supposed to believe the nose was still identifiable when it came through the wall of her office? At 500 mph? And she escaped to tell the tale? Without being wiped out by a 60 foot wide wing?

If there is ANY truth in that tall story, I suggest that, from her office, a woman may have seen the nose of the plane, outside, through a window, as it approached or flew over.
Somebody heard this from somebody else and got it screwed up.

But I doubt we will ever know any more details about this fanciful account.
 
This is the line of sight from the DoubleTree Hotel to the fireball, as seen on its CCTV footage.

Screenshot_20231107-184528.png
The Pentagon is not visible from the hotel camera, as the elevated I-395 obscures it.
I think the witness is probably looking up at about 90° to that line, so not due east.

There is a relatively unknown witness who was in an office east of the Potomac, exact address unidentified.
She stated that people in her office saw the smoke plume at the Pentagon, and that soon after, a plane flew low and so close past their building that it nearly shattered their windows, and continued on towards Congress.
I'd very much like to know more about her story.
 
Can you remind me, from what evidence did he get the idea that the plane went NxNW after the flyover?

I'm not sure. It might be a result of his idea that the plane flew over SW edge of the Pentagon? I'm just guessing. He says the plane /arrived/ over D.C. flying low downriver south-southeast (TOM HOVIS said Reagan Tower didn't detect the plane, which suggests it was flying very low). So to leave D.C., it went in the opposite direction. That's what I believe his reasoning is.

Those are some good points you raised about Penny Schoner. It's more likely a garbled account than a faithful one.

In a couple of your images in your Flickr album, you mention the DoubleTree witness as gazing east toward the airport or eastern sky. That's why I mentioned it. The airport is east from the Pentagon I believe. I think he possibly saw the fly-over plane making its get-away.

1699370353596.png

There is a relatively unknown witness who was in an office east of the Potomac, exact address unidentified.
She stated that people in her office saw the smoke plume at the Pentagon, and that soon after, a plane flew low and so close past their building that it nearly shattered their windows, and continued on towards Congress.
I'd very much like to know more about her story.

That's fascinating. I'd like to know more too. Do you know her name? Can you recall where you read this account? I'll try looking for it myself.
 
Yes, I do know that witness's name and whereabouts.
I found the reference to her testimony in a CIT forum dated about 2010. Someone had found it, on a UK site, and it caused quite a stir as a potential flyover witness. People intended to contact her.
Then apparently nobody did, and that was the end of that thread.
I've never found the original site, which was a British collation of people's memories of 9/11. She is British, but was working in D.C. at that time.
Nor have I ever come across her testimony in any American source.
I'll PM you.
 
Blue_Windows
DeWitt Roseborough was in South Parking when he heard a roar above his head, looked up to see a plane, THEN (like numerous other witnesses) looked BACK to see a fireball coming FROM OVER the Pentagon.

He wrote out his testimony, which shows that his experience caused him considerable distress.

He was interviewed later by Craig Strawser in "Forever Changed" (link now 404'd) then it seems he never spoke about it again.

Some quotes from that interview:

'It was as he was leaving the Pentagon that the world Roseborough knew changed forever. "I got out into the parking lot, just walking along, and all of a sudden, I hear what I would describe as a 'lion's roar' above my head," Roseborough said.

"It caught my attention, and as I looked up, I heard another roar and I saw this airplane flying low. I thought, 'Oh, my God, this thing is really low.' "I thought it was going to crash onto the highway," recalled Roseborough.

"Just as I thought that, I saw a fireball come from over the Pentagon. I was just standing there dumbfounded, thinking, 'What just happened?'"


Craig Ranke called him. Roseborough politely refused to elaborate on his location or what he saw.

CIT assumed that Roseborough saw the plane fly over the southwestern wall of the Pentagon.
But as we know, South Parking wraps around the building to the eastern side next to 110.

Screenshot_20231109-023229_Google~2.jpg

Seems to me that he saw the plane crossing the Pentagon and over the eastern section of South Parking, which has since been reduced in size.

(Kat Gaines is another witness who stated that she was driving south on 110 when she saw the plane flying across the parking lot just above the lightpoles, THEN saw the fireball. Logically, she too must be a flyover witness, whether she knows it or not.)

Ranke's call to Roseborough is linked on this page. I tried to download it as suggested, but no joy.
Perhaps you can manage it?

https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/cit/pentagon-flyover-t314.html
 
Is it possible your browser blocked the phone call download as an "insecure download"? I got the same message, but I clicked "keep" and it let me download the file. Anyway, I'll listen to the call.
 
Just so I have this right: Lloyd's cab was struck by a "pole" when he was driving between H-Road and the Heliport, and his car came to a halt about 400 yards north of the Columbia Pike overpass bridge. Lloyd is witnessed by the two motorcycle cops, the husband & wife FBI agents, TERRY TERONEZ and JERI DAVIS. The SILENT STRANGER helped Lloyd remove the pole from his cab around 9:40. The waiting tow truck loaded up his cab at 9:45 (?) from the Arlington National Cemetery retaining wall, and a white van is seen leaving the area around the same time (possibly carrying a drugged Lloyde England?). I just know that Lloyde doesn't appear on the bridge until 9:55 a.m. and the cab doesn't appear there until 9:48 a.m. So Lloyde is assaulted by DETECTIVE FORTUNATO in that 11 minute time-span and taken via a white van (carrying other operatives) down to the bridge, where his cab is waiting. His cab is also filmed blanketed in a tarp, wheeled past Lloyd himself, none the wiser. He walked home sometime after 10 o'clock, after splitting a dollar bill with a stranger (likely employed to distract him from the in-progress staging of the pole-cab-bridge scene).

My apologies for any mistakes – you cover an incredible amount of detail, I can't list it all from memory. You even verified that Lloyd's recollection about a passing firetruck and WHITE VAN was correct. But something like what I described above roughly went down, I assume?
 
I also remember CIT accused Lloyde of changing his story because he "omitted" that he didn't fall down when he was removing the pole, in one instance where he re-told the story. But he was simply emphasizing a different part of his recollection, I believe. You're probably much more familiar with this than I am, lol.
 
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