Something or Nothing

Discussion in 'Christianity is Flavian Vanity' started by Sgt Pepper, Aug 29, 2017.

  1. Sgt Pepper

    Sgt Pepper Member

    This may be something or it may be nothing:
    Pope St. Clement I is the patron for stone-cutters.

    There may have been an edit on Wikipedia in this section:
    "While in the mid-19th century it was customary to identify him as a freedman of Titus Flavius Clemens, who was consul with his cousin, the Emperor Domitian, this identification, which no ancient sources suggest, afterwards lost support."
    from here: http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/04012c.htm
     
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  2. Richard Stanley

    Richard Stanley Administrator

    Good work Sgt.

    From your same link:

    ...
    The church of St. Clement at Rome lies in the valley between the Esquiline and Coelian hills, on the direct road from the Coliseum to the Lateran. It is now in the hands of the IrishProvince of Dominicans. With its atrium, its choir enclosed by a wall, its ambos, it is the most perfect model of an early basilica in Rome, though it was built as late as the first years of the twelfth century by Paschal II, after the destruction of this portion of the city by the Normans under Robert Guiscard. Paschal II followed the lines of an earlier church, on a rather smaller scale, and employed some of its materials and fittings The marble wall of the present choir is of the date of John II (533-5). In 1858 the older church was unearthed, below the present building, by the Prior Father Mulooly, O.P. Still lower were found chambers of imperial date and walls of the Republican period. The lower church was built under Constantine (d. 337) or not much later. St. Jerome implies that it was not new in his time: "nominis eius [Clementis] memoriam usque hodie Romae exstructa ecclesia custodit" (Illustrious Men 15). It is mentioned in inscriptions of Damasus (d. 383) and Siricius (d. 398). De Rossi thought the lowest chambers belonged to the house of Clement, and that the room immediately under the altar was probably the original memoria of the saint. These chambers communicate with a shrine of Mithras, which lies beyond the apse of the church, on the lowest level. De Rossi supposed this to be a Christianchapel purposely polluted by the authorities during the last persecution. Lightfoot has suggested that the rooms may have belonged to the house of T. FlaviusClemens the consul, being later mistaken for the dwelling of the pope; but this seems quite gratuitous. In the sanctuary of Mithras a statue of the Good Shepherd was found. ...​

    As I have discussed on another thread, Flavio Barbiero's book, The Secret Society of Moses, discusses a different interpretation of the relationship of the cult of Mithras to Xianity that that of most others. In Barbiero's interpretation, which I agree with, the cult of Mithra served the same esoteric function to early Roman Christianity as Freemasonry has more recently done for Protestant Xianity.

    The "shrine" of Mithra discussed above, is undoubtedly a typical mithraeum, which inherently takes it back to the earliest strata of Xianity - to Constantine and prior. As such, I would say this bolsters what you found about Clement being the patron saint of stonecutters.

    BTW, Barbiero has some interesting things to say about the Normans and their later role, it being intimately linked to all of this. Of primary interest is his claim that they were not the descendants of rude Vikings.

    Also, as I have discovered, so to speak, the Normans had their 'conquest' which is linked to 1066CE. But this is when it began, and about 3.5 years later is when it mostly ended, in 1070 CE, 1,000 years after Titus destroyed the Jerusalem Temple (3.5 years after the Jewish War began). As this latter was the First Second Coming and thus Revelation's Doomsday, the Norman event was memorialized in the Domesday Book. Domesday for Doomsday. The Normans were at the center of the Templar phenomenon, and in addition to conquering Sicily and southern Italy were involved in the Templar business in Jerusalem.
     
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  3. gilius

    gilius Active Member

    Interesting topic, guys!! 1066 is very interesting too... and they failed to find the battle field! ;)
     
    Richard Stanley likes this.
  4. Richard Stanley

    Richard Stanley Administrator

    We came to get some truthiness, but all we got was this bloody tapestry.

    As the show ends, looks like they'll have to start digging up portions of the town.
     

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